Why do I feel like I'm floating?

Bought a 2002 C2 last month and have driven it a little over 1200 miles. Most of the drives have been two lane canyon roads, with a little bit on the straights. Maybe I am not getting the picture here as to how a p-car should handle, but I find that this vehicle which is equipped with the US M030 suspension, and a set of new p-zeros, has a feeling of floating in the front end at anything over 80 mph? Not a really good feeling of positive steering control. Although I am use to front engine cars that have a tendency to oversteer for the most part, I don't really feel the understeer in this C2 that objectionable. However, the feeling at speed in excess of 80 mph is a little scary since the front end feels so light. Is it my imagination, or do other people out there feel the same? If this is problematic to US cars due to the slightly higher ride height, how does Porsche warrant selling this vehicle in the US? Is there a simple and cheap cure, or do I need to change out the entire suspension? Tom L

You can put some springs which will lower the car. Or get a set of PSS9. I assume your tires are properly inflated. I've not found the front to be light at high speed. I do think it's lighter than normal due to its high rear weight bias.

The RoWM030 is just what you need. The USM030 is a waste. I added that to my 2000 996 and the floatiness disappeared and it so much more planted. Not to mention the car lowered about 18mm in front and 25mm in the rear (measures before and after). Also with the 2002 model you also have the option to add the X74 which is more agressive than the RoWM030. Personally I prefer stock pieces. If that doesn't matter to you then PSS9 is a popular aftermarket choice. Do a search on all 3 here on this forum and you will find reading material for many days to come.

Dirttrack, I too have a 2001 C2. It's equiped with the ROW 030 and everything else but a chip and free flow cats. When I first purchsed the car and had litle experience with this type of Porsche ( had a 944 T before ) I felt that the front was a little light and flowty as you would put it. But once tracked that is when the true personality of the car commes out. Its somewhat inherent of the design to be light in the front without load, however once properly drivin on the track ( you can't bring this cars true potential out on public roads ) it is simply "marvelous ". Cheers Pierre

Dirtrack, As can be seen by my avatar my car does not suffer from front end lightness except as seen here in corner 2 at Mosport at speed. Left front of the ground @ 140 KM. All the best Pierre

Thanks for the info folks. Pierre, Is your car set up with the normal stock US suspension? If not, what are you using? Tom L

Tom, Your front end should not feel like it's floating. Was the alignment checked prior to the purchase? The 996 is great on sweeping medium to high speed corners so your experience is not how this car should behave.

Depending on how aggressive you want to go, X74 is an excellent choice.

I also have an 02 C2 that I purchased last month and mine is the same way. I was also wondering if something was wrong. The front end just feels really light around 75.

RoWM030 or X74 plus alignment and all will be well in Porscheland.

Is the suggestion here that the car has to be modded to feel "right" at 80mph?? That doesnt sound right at all. Im sure the RowM030 is a great mod, but the stock US setup shouldnt be shaking your confidence at 80mph, sorry. Something is wrong with that car.

Not really modded but rather returns to normal as Porsche designed it. Remember the US suspension/ride height is on our cars to accomodate USDOT reg.

Thanks again for the replys. The car seems to handle ok on sweeping turns although it still feels light in the front end. The un-nerving feeling is when accelerating on a straight. This becomes more pronounced when that spoiler deploys at 75 mph pushing down the rear. I don't see how this could be an alignment problem, unless Porsche is set up far different then other cars? The old tires showed perfectly normal wear, and the new tires are showing nothing unusual. The car goes straight as an arrow. If the US 030 suspension is only a ride height issue, then I can't imagine how bad a normal US suspension would be? Tom L

As LVDell mentioned, the problem is that all US cars have to be raised to meet DOT bumper height requirements. The rest of the world doesn't have this requirement so the cars are sold at the proper height. Once you change your suspension, that floating sensation goes away. That's why suspension mods are one of the most popular after market items.

i had the same problem on fast straights and adding a more aggressive front bumper (along with a lowered ride height and suspension tuning) with splitter cured that right up . with the stock bumper the front end was definitely floaty. oh ya, stiffer/lowering springs would help out the rear end squat, further reducing the amount of air going under the car. with a coilover setup you can also adjust the ride height so you can have a certain amount of rake (the front being lower than the rear). going with adjustable shocks and stiffening the shock rates will enable you to tune out the rear end squat.

Carlos is a living testament to handling mods! I did the same (though not a much as he did ) . I added the RoWM030 suspension, alignment, GT3 MkI front bumper and supercup lip to create more downforce and stability up front. Handles like a dream on the track at high speed.

I had the same feeling when I got my first 911 (40th Anniversary) last summer. I had come from an E46 M3. After 16 months with the car, I'm now of the opinion that the car feels like it's "floating" (when in fact it's not), simply do to the fact that the 911's steering offers much more feedback.

Dell, time to change your avitar to read "WHITE SOX".

Good one. I guess I need to root for them now.......oh those poor Cubs fans!

I am really a CUBS fan, but have to root for the Sox this year. Here in Chicago, just having ANY winning team would be nice.

I thought the Sox and Cubs were crosstown hated rivals???

They are, but I grew up to New England, so my first favorite team was the Red Sox. Since I transplanted myself to Chicago, I don't have the same loyalty to either team like some of these diehard Chicago fans do. Also, since I had preferred the Red Sox to win, I have to root for the White Sox so Boston lost to the BEST team and not just some runner up.

My same rationale for rooting for the Sox (white) to win it all.

Go ASTROS!!!

Be sure and check your tire pressures. If you have aftermarket wheels they may be heavier than stock and will yield that floaty feeling as well, ask me how I know. Another thought is having the alignment checked, my friends garage queen '03 C4S with 9k miles had a similar problem, his alignment was WTF off. Now that the Yankees lost, go 'stros.

I have the same suspension that you have (US-M030) on an '04 C2 and have zero floating feeling at the front end accellerating hard to 100 or 120. I would check your alignment before I spent any money on hardware. It could be a cheap fix. Then when you have more time on the car, look at what you want to change with hardware. Tim

I have US M030 also. It feels like a rear engine car, that's all. Nothing to cause lack of confidence at speed. You have to manage the weight distribution in accordance.

The US 030 should not give a floatie feeling at all.

Went out looking for some different straight-a-ways the other day. Thought that maybe the particular two lane that I was using out here, in the middle of know where, for speed trials, was just not all that well built? Found a much flatter, better built straight, and took the car up over 100 mph. It seemed to feel much better? Yet, still feels somewhat light in the frontend. Guess I will have to live with this suspension for awhile. Kind of errks me, since one of the reasons I bought this car, was the sport suspension. I had driven several other so called normal suspension cars, and could not bring myself around to buying one. Maybe like Lee says, I just need to manage a rear engine car. Anyway, thanks for everyones help, and I will check the alignment like many of you have mentioned. Next up will be some type of suspension that brings the car back down to where it is suppose to be. Thanks again, Tom L. 2002 C2 Cpe, Red, 6spd, PSM, PSE, M030, 18" Lt. Alloys, Bare bones, windows down, roof open, who needs a radio? Only mods so far, plugs in front and some clear side markers.

Tom, As you'll come to expect, you've received some great advice here. I drove a students 99 996 with the stock suspension at Brainerd a couple of weeks ago and it really didn't start floating around until around 130-140. 120 through T1 felt great for a stock car with street tires. The car in stock form is really incredible. As other have suggested, I would attack the issue in this order: 1) tire pressures/tires in general 2) alignment 3) suspension. which one depends on what kind of ride you're willing to live with 4) aero kit. I would do the suspension first only because it has other benefits 5) more suspension. by now you will be addicted. welcome to the slope Have fun. Jim

Tom, You're not weird or imagining things bro...when I purchase my 2002 C2 earlier in the year I imagined world class handling (a la le mans) out of the box. It behaved extremely floaty like you mentioned...my has the bone stock US suspension. Rolls, squats, dives, floats....all over the f*ckin place. Definitely set-up for the mainstream yuppy just looking to own a "porsche." After much research I order the very aggresive factory X74 suspension kit (w stabilizers). After many owners I've spoke with they've commended that package with virtually eliminating any understeer and floatiness or squat and dive. Even the jaded hardcore track guys loved it....I would prefer it over the PSS9's for several reasons. (no need to adjust/tune & it being a factory part among the top of the list) Get the X74 for your 02' ...wait till it goes on sale again at Carneval and order it from Gert. --- Kevin

I think one thing worth considering is that when your suspension rolls, squats, dives, etc. it's only reacting to your inputs. Be it turning, accelerating or braking. Whatever suspension reaction you experience with stock suspension is also happening with X74, m030, Pss9, Carlo's Motons or my full race suspension. A stiffer suspension only masks bad habits that will reemerge as you take whatever suspension you have to it's limits. (OK, I should admit at this point that I teach our region's racing physics class so this topic is near and dear to me.) I really think we would all be better off if we learned to drive a stock suspension smoothly before upgrading it. I didn't but I wish I would have. It's much easier to learn how to control the movement of weight around the car when you can feel it happening at a relatively low speed. BTW, the stock 996 suspension can be driven very fast without any of the bad behavior described in the hands of the right driver. I'm not picking on you Kevin and I apologize for using your post to make a point. It really applies to all of us. Jim

Jim, I agree with what you are saying about the car is only reacting to one's inputs, good or bad. This is true of any vehicle rather it be front, mid, or rear engine. My experience only being in front engine cars. This last month has been a very new experience to me trying to learn the traits of a rear engine car. The more I drive, the more I learn. What worries me is not so much the handling qualities of the car (C2 with US M030 susp. 18 light alloys w/p-zero tires) but the light feeling in the steering at speed. I am talking about accelerating from a dead stop to over 100 mph in a straight line and feeling the sensation of a light steering input or a feeling of a front end float. I imagine that if I could find a long curve that I could take at that speed without getting arrested, I would have the same sensation? Many people here have suggested that this could be tire pressure, alignment, ect. I have tried tire pressures from the recommended 36psi front, 44psi rear to combinations as low as 30/38. Can't say I notice much difference. As far as alignment goes, yes I probably should check that out, but I just can't see how alignment, unless it was way out, could create a light front end at speed? Maybe its time to find another car and driver and do some reality checks? I try his, he trys mine? Tom L

Tom, what wheels/offsets are you running? If far off from factory that might be the prob.

I am running Porsche OEM 18" light alloys. No offsets that I am aware of? Tom L

Just a thought.

I have an 04 C4S with X73. My car was all over the place, quite unstable just as you are describing and also my car would track straight if I took my hands off the wheel. Well not perfectly straight but certainly not off enough for me to question the alignment. Well I did have the alignment checked and it was way out. It has been adjusted properly now and my cars feels totally different. I would go to a well respected Porsche shop or to a good P car dealer and get the alignment done before anything else. Good luck!

Dave, was your alignment off pre or post x73?

Tom, There is no question these cars suffer from some lift which is worse at the US ride height but it doesn't seem right getting it at such low speeds. Like other have said, check the alignment. After that you can go after the expensive stuff. Jim

C4S surgeon: My alignment was off after the X73 install due to a slight off track excursion. At the time I thought nothing of it but later realized the settings had moved. BTW it was late yesterday when I posted and I need to correct that mine is an 02 C4S.

I think mine is off a bit now as well, a lot of driving on crappy roads with the x73 as of late.

The shop that does my alignment showed my why 996's can get out of spec pretty easy. It's in part due to the surfaces of the adjustment cams being smooth. In the last alignment they removed these parts and introduced some burrs into the surfaces then reinstalled and aligned the car. This seems to be a fix that helps. I've been to LRP twice on the new alignment and everything seems OK. You may know that LRP is pretty bumpy and tough on alignment.

Dave, that is a very interesting theory. I have the same problem with my x74 getting out of alignment. Every 3-4 months or so it needs realignment.

What kind of tires are you running? What is the condition of the tires? What tire pressures are you running--cold & hot? Are your alignment, etc. set up correctly? I'm interested to know please.

I am running Pirelli Roso P-zero's. Fronts have about 15k on them, rears are new. All four tires are in excellent condition. I have set my tire pressures from the factory recomendation of 36psi fronts, 44 psi rears, to any combination down to 30 fronts/36 rears. Have not checked the alignment since I purchased the car a little over a month ago. Tom L

I think it's an alignment issue.

got a 99 911/966 cab and find the front also very light....scarry almost....car handles perfect..but the light floating feeling, gives me a very insecure/unsafe feeling. Luckily driving over 100 in LA without getting pulled over is almost impossible...so the floating feeling keeps me in check.....have to say that my Honda Element feel better/safer at 90..but I won't make the same lane changes as with my P.

I have a 99 C2 with stock suspension and 17" rims. I haven't felt any floating in the front end, and I've been to 130mph. In fact, it felt very secure travelling at that speed. I feel very secure in my 996 no matter what the conditions and speeds I'm going.

As Nicolas and Dirtrack49 have commented, I have the same sensation in my 2000 Cab: front end feels a little light at speeds over 70-80mph. But lightness may not accurately describe the sensation for some readers. Basically, what happens is that you start driving a bit more quickly, the car tracks straight but then you feel as though the front wheels are going a bit this way and that (like mini-swiveling). It's quite disconcerting. It doesn't change the direction of the car so much as it leaves an unsettling feeling coming through the steering wheel as though the direction of the front wheels has changed and does not match the EXACT direction that you want (i.e. - a light feeling). It's not that you can't corner well, it's just that the 'lightness' does not inspire confidence in cornering well or driving straight fast even though I have no doubt the car could hit the turn well and drive straight. I have driven my father's 2004 C4S cab (not apples to apples) and NOT noticed this sensation. From reading all the posts here, and my own prior experiences with other cars (yes, I have noticed this sensation before), I am left to presume that perhaps: 1. I still have those damn Continental Contisports 2s on and they are the reason that the car tracks lightly at speed (yes, I know, not likely and a carry-over from another thread on Rennlist recently, but I hate these tires). 2. The tire pressure is creating the disturbance. However, Dirtrack49 stated that he has tried varying pressures to no avail or alleviation of the problem. 3. Alignment is required. I must say that I am leaning to this solution. As suggested in a post on this thread, adding burrs during alignment might be the solution because these cars can go out of 'line' often, particularly if you drive on poor quality roads like in NYC. I will be scheduling this post haste. I bet this offers salvation. 4. Suspension modifications. The RoW M030 might be a decent solution. I can accept that minor changes in frame geometry and pivot points caused by lowering the car would improve handling. However, I don't know if that would be the cure to this problem, even if it did resolve the symptoms. It just might push out the 'lightness' sensation to higher speeds. My goal is to resolve/cure it completely. Besides, I have driven cars that had the stock USA non-sport suspension and they drove as expected. 5. Aerodynamic modications with bumper replacement. I don't by this at all. The sensation happens at speeds as low as 70-80 mph. If it only happened at 140 mph, I would say that's the nature of the beast. Oh yeah, I also know this isn't the case because I ALREADY have the Aero I front spoiler and side skirts. So there it is. Alignment imminently, and then maybe RoW M030 suspension upgrade anyway, and I'll post back and let you know how it went. Of course, it still could be those damn Contis. Cheers, Edward

MkI front and skirts (Aerokit) and RoWM030 totally transformed my car. Feels like it should. Floating feeling? Gone. Light feeling? Gone. SUV look? Gone.

A few weeks ago , I started getting that lightness/bouncy feel at speeds, esp on the track. I had my alignment checked, it was a little off, as the car had settled about another 1/2" since my X73, and created some significant toe out. Taso at TPK Performance(formerly RPM) re-aligned it, now it's perfect once again! Def check the alignment first.

Dell, you are a riot. SUV look? Come on, it's not that bad. Anyway, I think the alignment is definitely the right start. But hey, if not....then what a wonderful excuse for some Euro spec suspension hardware. I tell you, you guys on this forum are going to be the death of me and my wallet. BUt then again, money's only something you need in case you don't die tomorrow.

Edward, this forum was the death of my wallet as well. Embrace the mod bug!

totally agree... check the tyre pressures.....(in fact adjust the tyre pressures....) as dirtrack49 sais try something "crazy" . from the factory recomendation of 36psi fronts, 44 psi rears, to any combination down to 30 fronts/36 rears. i had excactly the same prob....i went from stages 2-5 as above....and stage 1 with the factory settings of 36-44...i thought i was perfect and something else was wrong..... then someone told me " take off some air!!!!" now i am running 32-36....and.... i am pleased....try it

you know what??? I still enjoy driving my P..with all the "problems more than any other car I ever had...the cornering makes up for the "floatiness" and with all my photo equipment in the trunk....the car handles like a dream...cheapest solution...put a 50 pound weight in the trunk...slows you down a little but the floatiness is gone....

i disagree!!!! why would you do that... there is no reason of choosing this way... identify the prob....solve it and you will be still enjoying the car without any prob....

I recently changed my very cold tire pressures to 35 front and 42 rear. The lightness handling sensation is improved to some degree...enough so that I may experiment with different pressures, perhaps going to the 34/40 config mentioned earlier in the post. I will say that I think that the Conti tires, if not the source of the problem, definitely exacerbate it. They just sound so awful on asphalt and concrete as though they are out of round. I know it is not a balance issue, but clearly, I will replace the tires after the thaw (that's spring here in NYC) and rebal and re-align. I suspect this will resolve all issues for once and for all. Anyone been able to fix the lightness sensation without going to the RoW euro-spec suspension?

by the way i have conti's and i am happy....

I would just align it now, Taso did mine for 100$, 20min. TXK Racing, formerly RPM, no connection, just a happy customer.

so what has been the conclusion....did the alignment fix the problem for you guys...thanks

I get this floatiness feeling too, I think the car needs to be lowered maybe? Also the areo of the car, all the weight is in the back, along with trammeling (sp?) where the font tires move w/ the grooves in the road.. i don tknow, but I want to correct the issue too..

I know why the car feels light in the front! I checked and there is no engine!!!! Luckily we can check the oil from the dash! Where the hell is the engine??? Anyway, I drove with some heavier stuff in the trunk and the floating feeling was gone...I guess that I have to bite the bullit and "go lower"..because the floating sensation was completely gone with weight in the trunk.....I guess lowering the P an inch or so..will take care of it..until then sandbags in the front....because it feels good to drive 135MPH....with the top down.

quick question on this. i only really feel the floating when the wind is blowing strong an i am over 80mph. I have factory 17s... does switching to factory 18s help this? Also have minor tracking issues when highway is uneven. would 18s help or hurt this? i am in the market for new tires so if i were to switch to 18s this would be the time. i will also have the car alligned when i get the tires.