Soon to be 1rst time Porsche owner - looking for advice

I originally posted this in the 911 forum but I guess I should have posted in the 996 forum. Sorry. Hi all, new to the forums and appreciate any advice people have. I just got my wife on board with me getting a 911 - something used, 2002-2004 (996) around 30K. Test drove one on Saturday and am thinking of making an offer. Figured I would reach out for any advice before I pull the trigger. I need my first Porsche experience to be positive - don't want to turn my wife sour on Porsches... So I'm thinking base Carrera, not Turbo - bc I have heard they are really solid, reasonably maintainable cars. Also being a 2003 it has taken the bulk of it's depreciation. It only has 37K miles, so I think I can drive it for a long time and still have it retain most of it's value at this point. Does anyone have advice on things I should look out for or have inspected (doing a pre-sale inspection at a dealership, unless someone has a beet place in Atlanta to go). I am cautious bc it seems like a very good deal, but this dealership comes recommended by people in the car industry here in Atlanta. Does $29K for a 2003 Carrera with 37K miles seem about right to everyone? Any tips before I move forward on this? Is 2003 a solid year to go with? THANKS IN ADVANCE... Karl

I have a 2002 carrera with twice that mileage and the car rocks. Look it over like any used car. Look for oil leaks where the engine meets the trany, these cars are known for rear main seal leaks and IMS bearing problems. Go online and google IMS and Porsche. so you know what you are getting into. these things can be fixed but its pricey for about 1500 bucks. If it fails you could lose a motor and that is 10 to 20 grand. Buy it knowing you will be spending 2 more grand to have the IMS upgraded and then you will have one of the sweetest cars you ever owned.

Smart move getting the PPI. 2003 is a good year, in addition to what capers has mentioned, set aside $1000-2000 for any problems or deferred maintenance you may (will) find once you've brought it home. It's a ten year old car and there are bound to be some small issues that need to be taken care of. Any big issues will hopefully be brought to light during the PPI. During negotiations you need to have an idea of what you are willing to live with or, decide to pass on the car.

DO NOT have the ppi done by the dealer who is selling the car to you. You need to read up on that year and model and find out everything there is to know about the working of that model and then get an Independent PPI done. I am not going into it. You read up on it. If something is not working as it should be then get the dealer to put things right before the deal is settled. You might even consider an extended warranty during the deal. If he doesn't put things right then walk. Don't rush into things. Shop around. There are lots out there.

I found this as good insight to the IMS bearing issue.I'm also about to purchase and have the same concerns. I'm sure I will pay a bit more in Japan for the bearing upgrade but I think worth doing. Sorry for the link, hope it's not against the rules. Certainly not a fan of "link e d in" http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Porsc...230?_mSplash=1

Have the pre purchase inspection done by an independent Porsche Specialist in the atlanta area. Somebody have a recommendation? As stated before, do not use the selling dealer. Price seems reasonable. Turbo 996 have more robust "better" engines than a non turbo 996.

Don't forget to use the latest 996 price negotiating tactic. Bring along a copy of the Porsche IMSB settlement and politely ask, "about this IMSB issue"? Thats an instant $3000 discount especially for an uninformed seller.

Get a twin turbo or GT3 if it has to be a 996. Otherwise a 997.2 is the next best option.

A 996 is a great introduction to the Porsche world. You get lots of bang for your $ with a 996. As mentioned above, there are a few common issues that need to be addressed, but it should be solid after that. Don't forget that it's a 10 year old car too - so things will wear out and need to be replaced regardless of the car's condition. If you really want some peace of mind with your purchase, then make sure to buy a 996 that has already had the IMS bearing replaced with an aftermarket upgrade from LN Engineering. Have fun shopping. Buying a Porsche (new or used) is a fun process that very few people are lucky enough to experience.

^^ What Dennis said. You will pay less for a car that has recently had the bearing upgrade done than you will for buying a 996 and doing the upgrade. The bearing upgrade is preventive maintenance, not a premium add-on, so don't anticipate paying a $2000 premium just because the previous owner plowed $2K into a replacement bearing.

But do demand that $2K to $3K be deducted if it has not been done.

Thanks for all the advice. I got the PPI from an independent dealer. I negotiated the price down $2000 PRIOR to the PPI. In the PPI there were several routine maintenance items (brake fluid flush/battery/alignment/a few small other things - nothing major). The only other main point of concern is low hydraulic fluids in the convertible... likely going to need a new top to the tune of $2400 (according to independent Porsche dealership). I think I am going to try and negotiate price down another $1500 to put it at $25.5K knowing I may need new convertible top rams, possible IMS bearing at some point, and tires in the next few months (currently at 4mm). ONE IMPORTANT QUESTION... Independent dealer told me there are signs before IMS bearing becomes an issue - either leaking from the RMS or a loud clunking sound from the engine. Can anyone confirm this? My main fear is no warning sign - them IMS failure - then catastrophic engine failure with a $20K repair... as long as there is a warning sign I am good to purchase this car. I can live with the couple grand in repairs it may need - just not $20K... Here was PPI review - many of these items I am sure I can get done at lower prices then what the independent dealership quoted... $450 for a battery seems excessive... gas cap I can live live... fuse is not $50... the rest I can pay for...: 1. Brake fluid is dirty, needs a brake fluid flush cost 180.00 2. Battery is aftermarket and wrong size. Major issue with this is the vent line running to battery doesn’t reach due to the size and thus is leaking fluid and has corrosion. New battery 450.00 3. Radio not turning on – needs a fuse R&I replace fuse cost is 50.00 4. Fuel cap lanyard is broken, very simple, replace 60.00 5. Conv. Top hydraulic fluid low. Do not see a leak but there may be one. Recommend starting will filling fluid which is about 150 and monitoring the top. If leak presents will most likely need new top rams which cost around 2400.00 6. Tires are in spec but approaching replacement. We recommend replacement 3mm or below and these are at 4mm. 7. Needs alignment, inner edges of rear tires wearing faster than outer. Cost 280.00 Any last minute advice before I move on this tomorrow is appreciated - THANK YOU all in advance. Hesitant yet anxious soon to be Porsche owner....

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Thanks for the words of inspiration caperss... I am OK with the IMS replacement costs - already negotiated some of that in. I just want to confirm there is SOME warning before the engine fails. Have been tool there is engine clunking sound or visible RMS leaks. If anyone can confirm I'd at least have this warning sign then I am goos to go. EXTREMELY excited about owning this 996. Can easily afford several K in repairs if they become needed - just can't handle and engine failure conversation with the wife... Would end my sports car dreams...

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Seems we are in the same boat. Eagerly awaiting last minute info but not sure there is anymore to get. I spent a bunch of time on youtube listening to various 911 996 engine noises. I know what IMS bearing failure doesn't sound like and have a rough idea what it does sound like. Seems it basically sounds like a really rough/tearing non-uniform bearing noise, i guess from all the steel marbles bashing together like lotto *****. good luck!

Sounds like a decent price and you've done well to reduce the price. Regarding the IMSB - Some people have gone 100k + miles on the original bearing so there are some that last and others have had theirs fail with less than 40k miles. it is possible to have little to no warning when it fails and by the time you hear a noise it could be too late. You may see some oil leaking from the rear main seal (which is not the same as a leak from the IMSB area) but that would not necessary be related to a pending failure. Best bet for your piece of mind would be plan on getting it replaced with the LN Bearing or the IMSB Solution (which is pressure fed bearing sleeve vs. rotating ball bearing cage). Both can be done by Flat 6 Innovation in Cleveland Georgia. That's where I had my IMSB replace last year.

Where the hell do people get the prices for jobs on these vehicles. 1. Brake fluid is dirty, needs a brake fluid flush cost 180.00.. Do it yourself for the cost of a couple of cans of brake fluid. 2. Battery is aftermarket and wrong size. Major issue with this is the vent line running to battery doesn’t reach due to the size and thus is leaking fluid and has corrosion. New battery 450.00.. Bollux a new battery is just over $100 3. Radio not turning on – needs a fuse R&I replace fuse cost is 50.00.. new fuse 5cents. 4. Fuel cap lanyard is broken, very simple, replace 60.00 Who needs a lanyard anyway? I don't have one on mine. 5. Conv. Top hydraulic fluid low. Do not see a leak but there may be one. Recommend starting will filling fluid which is about 150 and monitoring the top. If leak presents will most likely need new top rams which cost around 2400.00. Load of ****.. Send in your old rams and have refurbished ones sent to your house for $400 for the two. I can give you the address of the place that does them if you need it. 6. Do not see a leak but there may be one. The new battery will cure the roof problems and you wont even need to top any ram fluid up in the first place. Tires are in spec but approaching replacement. We recommend replacement 3mm or below and these are at 4mm. Kanooks V12 all round about $800 (18 inch wheels) 7. Needs alignment, inner edges of rear tires wearing faster than outer. Cost 280.00 Again a load of tripe as the rear tires on all the 996 wear on the inner side before the outside due to the correct alignment. Get the guy who does the ppi to change the oil filter. He can drop the filter and change it without having to change all of the oil. Then tell him to cut open the filter and examine it for any particles. Metal or otherwise. If he finds anything then its a good bet that the IMS is on the way out and needs to be done. If clean then relax you caught it in time. Do that during all your oil changes at 5000 miles and you should be ok. About 5 to 10% 0f these cars are suspect. Stand 20 of these cars in line, one bad car, and I defy anyone to pick the bad one first try, so it's a good bet you got the good one or one of the 19 cars with nothing wrong with the engine. Some people on here say not to listen to my advice (as no one apparently does) or so they say. Do that at your peril. It's not good luck that we need when buying these 996 cars. Its good management and using your brains.

An imsb going out is not going to give you the warning your thinking of. When you change oil you check the filter for metal and can also have an oil analysis done. If your thinking you will hear it failing slowly that is not the case. The best action is to just get it replaced. I did mine myself, there is a lot of great resources out there to help you along with this issue. Go into your purchase with your eyes wide open and you will be fine. It sounds like your on the right track. These are great cars for the money for sure, best bang for the buck. If you read into everything too much you'll scare yourself out of truly enjoying the fun of owning the car. Keep up with the basic maintenance needs and drive it like it was meant to be driven!

Thanks Hurdigurdiman. Yeah I knew the dealership prices were high on some of those things - great advice on the top rams - yes I would like the info on the place I can send them to for refurbing. This makes me feel better about the purchase - talking to the selling dealership this morning to hopefully close the deal.

Although you already had a PPI done, can't hurt to look this over: https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...immermann.html * was a pressure test done of the cooling system? the water pump/coolant reservoir/cap/belt/t-stat are probably still be the originals. yes, mileage is low but items are now 10 years old and worth adding to your TO-DO list. * was a compression test done as part of the PPI? * as stakeman above suggested, have a Used Oil Analysis (UOA) done so you'll have SOME idea of the health of the engine. I use Blackstone Labs Best of luck.

kromdom - I guess I made a mistake by thinking I could take it to a Porsche dealership to get a very detailed PPI... Doesn't look like they did these things. They did a basic once over, checked levels, belts, drove it, etc... Report is attached. The UOA really sounds like what I should be looking for...

"I guess I made a mistake by thinking I could take it to a Porsche dealership to get a very detailed PPI" Yeah, we mentioned that. Gotta love folks who think the Dealer is the most comprehensive place to have your car inspected/serviced. You can forget about this theory of hearing when a IMS bearing goes bad. They can lumber along with no sound and then collapse in a matter of seconds. The only way to determine if the bearing is on its way out is a used oil analysis and cutting open the paper filter and inspecting for debris. Can you imagine driving around with sport exhaust and constantly listening for some type of death rattle while paying attention to the road?

Have you see this device? http://www.theimsguardian.com/ I have no experience of it but potentially it could give you some piece of mind.

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Have you checked the VIN against the numbers with bad IMS bearings on this website? If it is one of the "bad" VIN's then I would think twice before oulling the trigger with my wallet.

I was in your shoes 6 months go. I was looking at a 2003 Carrera 2 tip coupe in black & black. I read as much as I could in a few days but still not having the advantage of experience and knowledge most of these guys do so committing was no easy feeling. I had a non-dealer PPI done and the 64k mile car came back with no issues except that a 60k mile service had not been done. There was no history available on the car as it was likely an auction purchase. I did come back to the dealer multiple times (on and off hours) to see if I could detect any leak at all, oil or otherwise. There was absolutely none. The engine compartment was clean, in fact very clean but not of the "recent power wash" variety. Someone must have really taken care of it. This car was too good which made me even more suspicious but the negotiated price was good at $25,500. I made a decision to get it. If you are expecting drama here, sorry, it has been perfect for me. I did invest $1200 in a dealer service 60k service to see what could be uncovered but it came back with no issues or needs. The talk on this thread about possible IMS bearing sounds does raise a bit of concern since I have no idea what a pending IMS issue sound is like. At speeds above 45, I hear a subtle roaring sound that increases as the speed increases. It seems to be elevated when I make sweeping right turns but only slightly. To the uneducated ear, it sounds like a wheel bearing friction type noise, reverberating ever so slightly. Again, it is subtle so not sure what to make of it. In any case, so far, my experience and investment has been great and I love my 996.

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http://www.tophydraulicsinc.com/en/8-porsche

no leak down test? Do not pass go. Also $25K is accpetable for low mileage. But you'll have to add ~$3K for the IMS swap. Which means this is really a $28K 996. Which is not really "a deal" since its a bit too close to 997.1 pricing in my book. After about 20K miles the car will essentially be in the same depreciation boat as the 997.1 you might have had for another $3K or so. The best find is a 997.1 that has already had the LNE IMS swap, very few 997.1 can have the IMS swapped without pulling the engine apart, a huge expense that is better spent buying a 997.2 with the DFI engine. The forum classifieds is the best place to find a 997.1 with the LNE swap. Might take some time though.

I have a 2003 C2. Absolutely love it. I'd prefer a 997 TT, but that is not to say I don't thoroughly enjoy my 996 C2. $29 K with that low mileage seems very reasonable, assuming it all checks out. As others have said, I would bet that if you bring in a copy of the recent IMSB settlement, they will chop that price down some. As others have also said, depending on your budget, you may want to pitch in a bit more and go for a 997. But, what you are looking at seems quite reasonable to me. That's my $0.02.

p.s. I would go for a car with slightly more oomph (S engine) if it means a bit more mileage. In by 20K miles (let the previous owner eat depreciation) and out by 70K (let next owner cover major maintenance) while you move over to a 997.2 DFI engine, which is a big step forward according to those who have torn apart and rebuilt them, just a little too pricey for the time being. But as with mass production, they will see a big drop soon. The market is neck deep in Porsches right now. Over 1,000 water-cooled Carreras on Autotrader right now. And that's before you add in all the Caymans, Cayennes, Panas and Boxsters.

I love your philosophy, perfectlap. Perfect. Now, if only I would follow it!

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Thanks HurdiGurdiMan. I walked away from this Porsche bc of too many potential issues, but have a line on another that looks to be rockstar condition so far from someone VERY respected in the POrsche community. I will know within the next 1.5 weeks if I have it. Looking forward to posting an update with pics!