Future 996 collector car?

Everyone seems to be of the opinion that run of the mill 996 cars will never really be collectible. I tend to agree with that. That said, I was just looking at ebay and saw the car linked below. If any 996 has a shot at being collectible this might be it. A quick rundown: 04 996 C4S Convertible Speed Yellow X51 package roughly 16k in carbon fiber, sport seats, yellow seat belts, yellow seat backs etc Ebay Link Thoughts?

Although it is a nice car I don't think that a covertible top, yellow car with mileage like that will ever be highly sought after or a collector car. This is my personal opinion but if I was a collector I would look into a coupe opposed to a convertible, and mileage much lower and Better taken care of. They do have a lot of carbon fiber parts and those are pricey but even I have most of them, other cars do as well. Just my opinion.

interesting car, awesome options and X51 but no not a collector car. Great color and car to own though.

Maybe in 50 years. I know this is the 996 forum, but I think the Porsche collective will agree the 996 was a stepping stone for better models to come.

I would stay away from this car, collectible or not. The HOOD does not work as it is supposed to work. Does that mean the convertible top or the front hood. And these words throw up a big red flag to me in the ebay description.. 'SO TO SPEAK' ...To me and reading between the lines says. 'there are more faults but we don't want to speak about them'. Tires half shot. I would have thought the hood and tires could have been corrected before putting it up for sale. What else has not been addressed? We want to brush those under the carpet. To cap it all, there is a no reserve on the car. The 996 will never ever become collectable owing to the low resale price of the model. ALL of them have been unfairly painted with the tar brush by the scare monger tactics and that seals up that deal. I didn't buy for the collectable deal . I bought because it was a 911 and JUST in my price limit range (thanks to the scare mongers).

I don't think there are any hard and fast rules that would allow you to predict the collectability of a particular car. Yes, obviously, it's all supply and demand, but it's really anybody's guess as to long term value. Like most market timers and speculators, your guess will be wrong. It seems many Porsche folk actively attempt to discredit the 996 (and surprisingly it seems 996 owners are often their worst critics in terms of value) but they simply just don't know. In one respect, if everyone is correct, 996s will go into total obscurity, driven into the ground, sold to Porsche wannabes that trash them, then the remaining few unmolested cars may just have some value. Overall, if I would have to assess what "generally" seems to be the most value in any make or model is either early versions of a car (sometimes considered the purest of a model), specialty versions, and/or final version (often considered the most sorted). Also, originality seems to be making a comeback, with unrestored classics being appreciated. Again, that's only a generalization across the car industry. All in all, a car purchase is a ****ty investment, dare I say the worst. Buy for pleasure, maintain properly, and if the stars align, you're car may go up in value but assume not. Most importantly, don't listen to the speculators, your guess is as good as theirs!

Some "rules" for collectibility: When the top goes down, the price goes up. Sorry, coupe guys, that's how it is with Vettes, Jags, 356s, etc. Only the 911 crowd has this coupe fetish. What made a car interesting or noteworthy when it was new, will make it interesting or noteworthy years from now. Is there anything interesting or noteworthy about this C4S? The X51, I guess. Bolt-on bling like carbon fiber is a matter of taste and most people couldn't care less at resale time. That's why realtors say houses with neutral decor sell quicker. Supply and demand still rules. 996s are high in supply...we'll have to see what demand is in the future. Conventional wisdom is that 996s suffer in comparison to 993s and 997s, but some cars redeem themselves as the years pass. I say these are "rules" because any car is potentially collectible. Some guy near me is hoarding old Kia hatchbacks, for god's sake. All it takes is some nut who chooses to buy it because he wants it, not because he needs it.

I wonder how many Vettes were produced in the first 10 years of their intro. When I go to Barrett Jackson, it seems like 10% of the cars are classic Vettes. I don't think the number produced will affect collectibility. I think it depends on personal taste. You collect what you like. And...most of the Vettes are convertibles.

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The number produced doesn't necessarily dictate collectability, but the number that survive definitely will. Personally, I don't think the standard 996 will ever be a "collectable". I predict the C4S, Turbo and GT models will be at some point. However, with the drop in 996 prices I can see them being a car owned by more and people who are in the age group to trash them, causing the number of clean, unmolested cars to shrink. So, my best guess is as good as the next guys.

Here's another vote for that 50 years from now. In 50 years the car could be something of a collectible car. That is someone might be willing to buy it for something above its otherwise depreciated value provided the car was in good shape still, and original. It would help if some famous (and probably tragically dead before his or her time) celebrity owned it at some point. But would I buy the car for its potential for turning into a collectible? No way.

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Thanks for posting, I just raised the bid $1,200.

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I would tend to agree - there are far fewer widebody cars (turbo, 4s) compared to the number of C2s and C4s made. The really interesting part are convertibles and targas - IIRC there's only like 2000 996 targas made, but the demand simply isn't there.

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Good point about the targas. I forget all about those. Part of the problem is that unlike aircooled targas, they don't look all that different. But they may follow the same trajectory as the soft-window 912. There was a time when nobody wanted a soft-window 912. But look at the prices of them now.

I would agree that generally convertible versions are worth more in the long run in collectible cars, but it's not always the case that a convertible is always a more valuable car than its hardtop version. A few examples just off the top of my head: Mercedes 300SL (gullwing), BMW Z3, Viper, Boxster/Cayman.

Just to be clear I wasn't suggesting this car for purchase as a future collectors item. I figure the 996 has at least 25-30 more years of being just an old porsche before people even start thinking about them in any other light. I just found the car unique. C4S 996 cab only made 2 years, doubt there are many of them in speed yellow w/x51.

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GT2 & GT3 are going to be the only collector 996's. The Turbo, X51, Targa, & C4S will hold better value down the road, but never be "collectible". C2 & standard C4's are doomed to be good sports cars for value. Of course, extreme low mileage, pristine examples of standard cars will pull more interest among collectors. Low production, an aspect that makes the car very unique, last of its kind is generally the basis for collectors vehicles and finally, popularity. Not "collectors edition" or "final edition"; that's pure marketing. i.e. Ford GT, BMW 1M, H1 Alpha, LP670, GT3RS4.0, anything Italian with a manual, 360CS, F430 Scud, GT2, flagship exotic cars, etc. really? Go ahead, take a look at the values on the following: Corvette C2: there are about 1/2 the amount of coupes as verts; then the '63 split window dominates the 327 car prices Corvette: C5 Z06 or FRC & C6 Z06 vs. vert Viper: GTS vs. RT/10; SRT coupe vs. vert H1: 4man hard top/wagon vs. vert XKE: coupe production vs. vert production Solstice coupe vs. vert 300SL gullwing vs. vert SLR coupe vs. vert The only "general" rule for future value, keeping the car bone stock.

They made over 10 million Model As and yet, 100 years later, every one of them is a collectable. Wait long enough and so will the 996.

Porsche claims 70 percent of all Porsche's made are still on the road—impressive figures, considering that the first commercial Porsche models were made in 1948. Knowing this, it's not difficult to come to the conclusion that with proper care, your Porsche has a long life expectancy. That fact alone makes all Porsche cars collectable. Obviously some models more than others.

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I'm not going to check the values on all those cars; I'll take your word for it. I'm also not talking production numbers but value. My point is that when the coupe is the "default" and the vert is optional equipment, the vert tends to be more valuable on the collector market. See E-types, Eldorados, 356s, Bonnevilles, 944s, etc. Sure, there are a few cars where the vert was the default and the coupe was the low production option, see MGB GT, Viper, etc. But generally, you buy a collector car to enjoy on sunny days, show off your blonde wife/girlfriend/whatever, but not to drive to work or the track, hence, weatherproofness and rigidity aren't concerns. Hence, my point holds.

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This is a common ploy by car makers, to quote some percentage of cars still on the road, as if that means anything. Think about how production numbers have exploded since the 944 came out, to say nothing of the Boxster, and it's clear that 70% of production doesn't say a hell of lot about the longevity of Porsches made in the '40s, '50s, '60s and '70s. Add to that the fact that Porsches tend to see gentle use compared to Tauruses and Accords and my reaction is...big deal.

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And my reaction to you is if you own a PORCHE then get rid of it as you don't deserve one.

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My comment was to point out the deceptive ways statistics are used. No need to get your panties in a wad. I deserve whatever car I can afford to buy, thanks.

Great color...I'm biased. Seat belts in speed yellow are a bitch to keep clean. This car looks particularly nice, but not original with the 19" turbo wheels. My rockers are black, these are yellow, perhaps an option. The wide body will be more collectible years from now, and the X-51 adds desirability.

As stated above, this type of claim is extremely common among vehicle manufacturers, but is highly misleading. The figure refers to ALL Porsches. Now, figure about 99.9 % of those that are a couple years old are on the road. Maybe start shaving off a percentage point or two as they start getting older (due to total loss crashes, etc). As someone stated above, you also have to figure in greatly increased production numbers in more recent years. So, by the time you are down to maybe the 1980s, you could have as few as 30% on the road, but the TOTAL for all years could still easily be 70%. It's like that ridiculous statistic when companies (often law firms and consulting firms) state something like "We have over 100 years of combined experience." What a stupid statement. So, do they have two old timers, each with 50 years of experience? Do they have 200 employees, each with 6 months of experience? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of numbers, particularly the use of statistics to bolster weak arguments. It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point. The term was popularized in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the 19th-century British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli (1804�1881): "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe I should have not made that last 70% of all Porsche statement seeing as how we are talking 911 and in particular 996 model. It kind of 'slung a spanner into the works'. I still think that the 911 Porsche is more desirable than most sports super cars on the roads. The 996 being the least desirable in the collectors world but to the guy who would never look a 'gift horse' in the mouth it becomes the one we can financially reach making it the best deal in the Automotive world. I am very proud to be the owner of a 911 Porsche. It is a kick **** car. Bollux to the so called collectable cars. They can put them where the monkey puts his spare nuts haha.

Now that I'm over 50, I don't even think about future collectability for my purchases. I won't live long enough to see it. However there are some things to keep in mind for car collectability. Given two cars of the same model: Excellent original condition will be worth more than restored. Low miles will be worth more than high miles. Bone stock and unmolested will be worth more than modified. Heavily optioned and non-optioned seem to worth more than middle of the road option levels. "Factory installed" is worth more than "dealer installed" or "owner added." Documentation is critical. Save and organize everything. The more, the better. The fewer the number of owners, the better.

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50 years of age? You young whipper snapper. I am almost 72 years of age and this is my first and more than likely my last 911 Porsche. Hey that's unless I win the Fall PCA raffle haha. Yeh and pigs might fly.

So, does Mario Andretti's autograph on the steering wheel of my C4S make it more collectible...some day? lol I've got a picture of him in the car if it helps. -Eric

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doubtful that any 996 variant other than the GTs will truly be "collector cars"

car is meh... Coupes are making a come back over verts because think verts are super girly, and coupes are more rigid. and look about 10000000000x better IMO

I don't think anyone would have imagined 964's ever becoming collectable five years ago, but they are certainly becoming so... They were long considered my many to be the red-headed stepchild of a true 911 that was also beaten with the ugly stick. For me, the 996 is the right blend of looks, performance, daily drivability, reliability, and affordability in a 911. And with the relative ease of proactively addressing the over-hyped IMSB issues, I think it absolutely will see a surge in popularity and value for the nicest examples, maybe as soon as five years from now. For now, KK, JR, and your typical luxury car depreciation still have some work to do driving the prices a bit lower. Personally, I have no real interest in collector or investment cars... Great bang for the buck and fun to drive factor with reasonable depreciation is fine for me.

Possibly the GT3's have a good chance at becoming collectible

I predict all cars (that survive) will become collector cars after the CO2 Panic of 2032 and the resulting government IC combustion engine confiscation. Seek out those barns now folks. Avoid the rush.

I love my 996, but the simple fact is that the cars are wedged between two more attractive models - the 993 and the 997 - and Porsche sold a giant pile of them. Neither fact bodes well for any future collectibility. On a similar note, I have wondered just how collectible any modern cars will be in the future. With OBD and extensive electronics, along with lots of potentially brittle plastic connectors and other parts, modern cars will be a nightmare for maintenance and restoration decades from now. Hard to see any growing in value, with the exception of limited production performance models like the GT3 RS and the GT2.

Remember that 20 years ago, you couldn't give away an early 911 - they were worthless junk. Base 996's will be collectable in about 20 years. At that time, a vast majority of those built will have been junked for financial reasons (too expensive to repair) and in the interim time the Porsche world will come to love the first water cooled 911 for the path that it set for the 997, 991, and 994 and 998 models still to come. The first model in a new series is ALWAYS collectable (eventually).

Definitely GT and turbo models, but doubt anything else, as the price of 997 is coming down and being extremely appealing.

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cabs are like big breasted blondes; they are always fashionable.

They will all be collectible when enough time passes. 914s are now collectible. If that's not a powerful argument for buy-and-hold, I don't know one.

Hey everybody, let's get dragged into a meaningless semantic argument! Is the 996 collectible? If you own one then by definition you "collected" it. The better question is will the 996 follow some stratospheric price curve in the future, because that's really what you all are asking. And of course the answer is NO. The 996 is NOT a Ferrari 250 GT Spyder California SWB (I think Enzo managed to cobble, yes cobble, about 10 of them together a year.) In fact, the answers I'm seeing here don't address the question at all. People discussing originality, production numbers, etc. are really discussing modern pricing information. I personally would argue that the 996 is already far higher priced (thus "collectible") than anyone has a right to expect. Don't believe me? Jaguar. Keep in mind, a "collector" car does not get driven, it does not get tracked, it gets maintained in a climate controlled garage until it is rolled onto a concorse, inherited, or sold. It is an investment, not a car. Porsches are cars. Your 996 is as collectible as any car of similar manufacture. It's pricing will be a function of the quality of design and manufacture that went into it originally. So, is it collectible? If you insist on using the word, then YES. More collectible than a mustang. More collectible than a 'vette. But I'm sorry kiddos, a Shelby AC Cobra it aint.

I guess your definition of collector car is different than mine. As I said before, wait long enough (look at the Model T) and any car, in any condition will be one way or another collectible.

The 996 is trending the same way the 928 did, they will devalue more and hit rock bottom. Then once the junky ones are sent off for parts the nicer examples will start commanding more money. There are a lot less junky cheap 928's out there now then there were 4-5 years ago. A couple super low mile pristine GTS's have sold for over 6 figures recently as well. I could see the Turbo S and GT cars going this way.

You don't buy a 996 for "future collector value", you buy it because it's the best value in a Porsche (or sportscar of any marque, for that matter) and it's a heckuva lot of fun to drive!

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And thank goodness for that!

Yes. Buy the car, store it in a museum for 50 to 100 years and it should be worth a lot more than you paid for it, but less than any conservative IRA would yield.. However, for the next 10 to 20 years the value will only go straight down.

OP If you like it make high bid depending on passing a PPI. If it passes buy it & enjoy it.

There's a fine line between automobile "desirability" and "collectability". While both are influenced by supply and demand, the former appears to be driven by a heavy dose of nostalgia, while the latter is mostly defined by rarity attributable to low production, advanced engineering, and unique styling. For insight into the distinction here, compare the general characteristics of cars passing through a Barrett-Jackson auction and, say, an RM auction (or any auction held icw a Concours D'Elegance show). But frankly, like many subjects kicked around on rennlist, there's no real consensus on this topic. relinuca PS: I collected my 996 because it was desirable to me. Nuf said.