84 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHIs the 997 that much better than the 996?
Leading reported evidence
Fill streets
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
especially with the 996 turbo and C4S they have the sport suspension which is great on the track but way too hard on the pot hole filled streets.
Leading evidence: 'Fill streets' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check pm' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Luckily the car still has 1 month left of factory warranty so it will be replaced for free.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
Sure there are many "changes" but the fact remains it is still a M96 motor/gearbox and that is where the heart and soul of these cars is.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The nav would be fun a few time on the autobahn seeing arrival times change doing 100 or 150.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
84 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T135432Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Is a 04 996 for 30K a better choice over a 06 997 for 40K (all things being equal ie condition miles)? I bet the 997 guys have strong opinions, but how about the 996 guys standing up to big brother.
The 997 benefits from 10 years of advances in design, materials, and technology. The 997 interior is fabulous. The overall ergonomic design along with the integration of options like nav are light years ahead of the 996.
A reason to spend another 10 grand? Maybe.
Does the increased weight make the 997 a little sluggist compared to the 996? And is the ride any different from a DD standpoint. We can't kid ourselves as looks do matter, but for 10K premium??
all depends on what $10K means to you as a percentage of your budget you've set aside for a new car.
If it will make no impact on your budget then the rule is always buy the newest car you can afford.
If it does make an impact and this is your first P car the 996 is a great inexpensive way to get into the porsche experience
Yes 10 year of advances in design, materials, and technology. Look forward to plastic coolant pipes cracking in the future and having to replace it with aluminum.
The 06 Nav system is light years ahead, yah ok. I prefer a newer Kennwood or Pioneer unit then even the MY10 nav system. 06 Nav system reminds my of a color gameboy.
Standard interior does look nicer but it doesn't come close to a 996 with full leather.
are you looking for luxury or performance because they both have strong points in each catagory
I know plenty of 996 owners (including C2, C4, GT3) that will say its not enough gain for the money - that said porsche sells brand new cars everyday for 2.5x what the 06' is listed at... is that "worth it"?
Navigation? Is somebody lost? You can always use an after market pop up screen stereo with nav. The nav would be fun a few time on the autobahn seeing arrival times change doing 100 or 150. Other than that nav is kind of as silly as the term social networking. Although social networking, blogs and forum opinions are rumored to of taken over the mob and mafia hehehe. Seems you have to pay to get away from bs and into one of the GT models. I guess my attitude towards nav isn't too super.
I didn't know the 997 is slower. Try finding a turbo and that should improve things
The front headlight look better and that's about it
Instead of 997, I'd put my money on an 04 GT3 ! at least you got a real bulletproof over-engineered car, like ALL porsche SHOULD HAVE been ! Unless you want plush ride of course...
I drove an 03 996 C2 for 2 years and recently moved to an 06 997 C2. No issues at all with the 996, but do like the 997 better. Will probably do it again in 2 years
Depends on what you want. Me? I decided on the 996 but my case is a little different. I was looking at 997C2S versus 996 Turbo. I gave myself a budget cap of 60K. The Turbo won hands down. For the money that and 06-07 C2S was commanding I was able to look at 02-05 Turbos and if the interior doesn't bother you (I don't give a rats @ss about the interior) then the 996 is a great buy. If you are looking at a budget of 40K then you should really give the 05C2 a shot.
996 better than a 997?
"Maybe I�m turning into one of those air-cooled guys who never really felt at ease with a newer model. But the 996, from memory, definitely felt a bit more chuckable, a little more svelte and generally lighter and more playful. More of a sports car, while the 997 feels more of a GT in the Aston / Mercedes / BMW / Audi / Jaguar mode. A sort of generic fast car in a Porsche 911 shape if that makes sense.
Am I off my rocker going back or should I just give the 997 more time. Would I be the first to go back from a 997 to a 996?"
Issue 61 Total 911
You're not off your rocker Chris
Think of the 997 as a 996 with a serious facelift inside and out. Sure there are many "changes" but the fact remains it is still a M96 motor/gearbox and that is where the heart and soul of these cars is. So.....do you want to have the facelift for another 10K is what you have to ask yourself.
+1 on this.
i got a 2002 c4s and put in $6k mods - most expensive was coilovers. stock suspension too soft.
what ever car you settle on, get a PPI. it is worth every cent!!
once you get it, get thee to a driver ed event. this is the only way you can see what the car can do.
life begins >5k rpm
Surfer161
Agreed on the PPI, a must do, should it be a 996 or 997... I went to Park Place Porsche this afternoon with my friend to have a PPI done on a 06 997 with only 22K miles and they found a RMS leak, what a surprise huh? Luckily the car still has 1 month left of factory warranty so it will be replaced for free. The other issue found was an inop horn, but who cares about that, I have never used mine yet and I am not sure if mine even works, Oops... I think that is the best $199 that he spent on this car. Good-luck with your decision.
Bao, you're in town and you haven't called or emailed me? I feel no love, I feel no love...
Back on topic... If you can swing it and those were your only 2 options, then I'd give the 997 a shot.
/m
Sorry I was wrong. They have exactly the same 0-60 and top speed stats as the 996 3.6l C2 and C4 in the Porsche owner manuals.
Though at the track I believe even being 5hp down the lighter 996 would be faster.
yes but even walter rohrl would have trouble getting the 5 HP to actually make a differance.... come on... 5 hp....
that like saying I took a crap before the race and now I am lighter... look out world !!
(even though I mis-read that, my statement is still funny
)
My only beef with the 996 MKII is the interior. It is dated. The 997 interior is a huge upgrade.
Worth $10K? not to me but whatever floats your boat.
If your not tracking the car you can throw the weight savings and HP differences out the window.
They are practically identical. I'd buy the 997 for 38, walk in w/ a check and drive a hard bargain. It's updated in many ways that count, does feel more solid all around, is 2 model years newer, and it'll look current for years to come. If the budget allows it, buy the 997 if you're buying today.
If you want to save the money, buy the 996. it's every bit as good a driver, again near identical. Not as solid feeling, doesn't look as wide stock to stock, but every bit as good as a sports car.
Don't buy a 30K car and put 10k into modding it, you'll only get a small fraction of that money back on parts and none on labor. If you want a 996 with 10k in mods buy a turbo.
I happen to agree with you, unless you are looking for an older Porsche like Ed did, and that's fine. I will plan on a newer Porsche than my 99' coupe, but not for a while longer.
I think it's splitting hairs, honestly. Unless you're going 9A1 with PDK, it's basically the same body, same dress.
It's the same type of BS that occurs when the GT1 guys talk about the M9X. Except their reasons are mostly valid. These M96 v. M97 guys are getting their panties in a bunch over what kind of mascara looks best.
Nobody can deny the 997 headlight look better than the 996, and I assume people who forked an additional 10-15k to buy that must convince themselves it was worth it !
I have to admit that before purchasing my 2003 996, I was really thinking about putting that 15k to get the newer better looking car. But after driving, I could not see much difference and you can really get a 996 with same mileage as a 997 for 15k less. Ok it will have 2 years more but so what...
Bargain -> 996
Bargain + -> 996 Turbo
Serious ++ -> GT3
Posers -> 997
If you were comparing a 996TT with a 997 I would have suggested that you go with the 996TT. But between a normal 996 and a 997 my choice would be an easy one. In my opinion you should go with the 997. The interior quality and looks is so much better, the exterior, imho, look so much better. Call it aircool nostalgia, but the 997 hits all the right buttons when it comes to looking like the earlier cars.
Unless you are getting a 996TT (which you can now find within that budget), I would say, go with the 997.
It's too heritage. Round headlights are done. It's too limiting especially with the inevitability of LED main lights. The packaging allows designers so much more freedom.
I LOVE the 996 lights. It's truly a work of art, form and function.
996 headlights are techno. I personally like them a lot. I also looked at the 997 before purchasing my 4S I always buy the highest spec model I can instead of buying a newer base model. My widebody pushes all the right buttons. Once you purchase a 911 you will fall in love with it regardless of age or how its cooled. I love all of em. In a perfect world Id own one from the each decade.
For years, I had to have the latest and greatest, cars, motorcycles, computers, you name it. I was never happy with the status quo for very long. I was the typical consumer that sucked in all the marketing fluff that manufacturers could offer to promote their latest stab at turning a buck.
A few years ago, I had a few experiences with different products where I found the latest whatever was actually a step backward, it was more expensive, but actually of lesser quality than the product it replaced. I keep finding this more and more. Newer is not necessarily better. In corporate America, stagnation will lead to failure. Things must keep moving forward and in a constant flux, and preceptions are everything. Often the latest and greatest in reality are only that for the manufacturer, as they have learned how to increase profits, by giving less substance coupled with the illusion of a better product.
Yes the 996s had some issues, but overall I was very happy my '99. It was heavily loaded and had a very high quality feel and look it it. It drove wonderfully and made me feel like my driving experience could be no better no matter what. With these cars it's an emotional thing, either you get it, or you don't.
Thankfully my shopping in '02 for over a year for the perfect 996 paid off. I get it!
I just sold my car to a guy that complemented me on it a couple of years ago. Recently he showed interest in buying one. I let him drive mine, he loved it too. I mentioned it may be time to let it go after having it nearly 7 years, he said, "how much?" I told him this car was special and why, and told him what it was worth to me. He said, "sold" He gets it too.
To me the 997 is no better. It's about your own expectations and what makes you happy.
Nice to see that things are still cooking at RL
It's been a while but here's my 2 cents...
Love my 996 but... after haven driven a 997 C4S I felt my 996 C4S was a bit (I'm being gentle
) behind in performance and the suspension is night and day(better on 997
).
That said, how fast can you really drive nowadays with this war on speed by Police... unless you use them as track cars, do we really need faster 911?
(of course we do,
yup I'm getting old
)
Some of you guys absolutely love the way it looks stock (those MK1 lights, really?)
and others think it's silly to spend too much $ on customizing a car that looks perfect the way it is
then others again (like myself) use their 996 more as a starting point for artistic expression of individuality (read, "trowing $ in a black hole").
Either way, I agree with the aforementioned it's a passion thing, whether you drive it bone stock or Frankenstein the hell out of it.
I say drive it till the wheels come off!!
I agree on the too heritage part, I think it's very funny how much of a big deal some people make about headlights.
I personally do not think the 996 headlights are very good looking, nor do I think the 997 headlights are particularly good looking. They are frickin headlights for chrissake.
I think all headlights break up the lines on cars too much, my preference always having been for pop up covers on ferraris and flatnose 911s
Love my 996 as a track vehicle. Currently own 997.2 and I have owned 3 997.1 units over the last few years. The 997.2 is the best of the water cooled and I feel it is much more refined than the 996 for street use and general overall driveability. Still either one is a blast to drive. I saw a post of a 2003 996 Tip for $20,000 so these cars are certainly available at very affordable prices!
when i went lookin, i liked the older wide body model 993's , around 95,96 ,97 era, but i could buy an 02 996 for around the same price, thats why i bought the 02, because i wanted a car that i could depend on, without worrying about having cold air, jus the little things that go wrong with the older cars, why would i spend the same amount of money just because someone else thinks that air-cooled model is better,
I used to think I was going to buy a 3rd car - I had an 08 Infiniti G37S coupe, and a '01 Hyunday Elantra I used for going to work and drive in the Winter. I thought about adding a 15K 911 from the 80's, but ended up trading in the G37 for a 04 40th Anniversary Edition with 12,000 miles on it with CPO. I have been happy with my decision, but I am still going to get an air cooled model once my Ford stock continues to go up from the $2.00/share purchase price :-) (11.XX a share now - waiting for $25 or so...)
Thanks Johnny
I've got Techart headlight masks which I bought at the P. dealer ($850,-) they also did the paint and install ($250,-).
I know it sounds expensive but before the Techart's I got some aftermarket ones ($250,-) and quality and fit was terrible... waste of money
If you're thinking of getting some make sure they do not bake them after paint because they'll curl up like curly fries
BTW, nice ride you got there
Cheers,
Sid.
funny thing about all of this which is better debate.... at a Porsche meet, all of this BS goes out the window..... everything in the universe is at peace. But in cyberspace, everything is misaligned, some people just needs to drive these cars more.
Especially if (or should I say "until") you show up with some Norwegian swimsuit models
, all of a sudden your 996 looks AWESOME !
Yep, boys will be boys
I've seen this in a couple of places, but am curious what it means.
Is it just the PASM that's so great? Or were there geometry tweaks or something else that make the 997 suspension work better, apples to apples?
All of the above, apples to oranges!
especially with the 996 turbo and C4S they have the sport suspension which is great on the track but way too hard on the pot hole filled streets.
nowadays they're able to get both performance and comfort into a P. ride, on the 996 these where mutually exclusive.
Buy what you'll drive.
I see people buy the most expensive car they can, then come up with 100 reasons why they can't drive it (rain, traffic, parking at the store....).
When I bought my 996 cab, next to it was a 997 coupe for about the same price. I felt I'd drive the cab more. It was a little less expensive--so I'd be slightly less protective. It also was silver -- a color that wouldn't show dirt as much, so I'd spend more time driving and less time washing.
I hear people go on about the 997 interior being better. Sorry, I just don't get it. I found the 996 interior a little more organic -- more pleasant. The 997 interior is fine -- just different. But I wasn't drawn to it.
Yep, I think the 997 is a little more attractive on the outside.
But part of the reason to buy a used car is that someone else has already paid for a good portion of the depreciation. My car rolled over 10k during my test drives, so it was almost new and I got over $30k off the purchase price. When you pay more for a newer car, you're also going to throw more away in depreciation.
Your choice. But if you're going to buy a depreciating asset...get the one you'll use the most.
Guess it's a matter of perception. After my 993 on M030 springs and Bilsteins, I'm enjoying the relatively plush 996 C4S ride.
Again, though, assuming non-PASM dampers, what advances were made in the 997 suspension over the 996?
I think you could only get the base 997 without PASM. Basically suspension is not any better without PASM but you have 235 F and 295 R wheels so a little more track then the 996.
When Porsche began testing the 997 they, of course, started with the 996 suspension set up. In fact, their intention was to retain the 996 suspension entirely for financial reasons. The designers of the 997 had thrown in another variable, however--19 inch wheels. The lower profile, wider and heavier tires and wheels began to destroy the 996 suspension during their testing program. The 996 suspensions just didn't have enough reserves in them to handle the abuse the larger tires were subjecting them to. Porsche had to go back and redesign the 997 suspensions to handle the additional stress.
What's the source of this? I'm curious because there are 996 owners with aftermarket 19" wheels. And if what you say is true, I'm never upgrading wheels to 19" (not that I would anyway)!
/m
i'd have to agree with jumper on this one, i didn't know when at the time i was buying a newer porsche, like they said to do, i hadn't seen that bodystyle before 02 996, & kinda liked it, didn't notice headlites at the time though, but that i wasn't really buying a porsche at all , they quit making them in 98 (air-cooled). so thats why i have never understood that sayin, jumper was rite the newest porsche you can buy is a 98, guess i'll have to go car shopping again, cause i don't want it to look like the lowly 996 is all i could afford.
Johnny, imo you've got a very good looking Porsche!
If anyone was to refer to it as "lowly" they are just putting others down in order to elevate themselves... and that disposition/lack of self esteem can't be fixed by any car!
Re; what Mark said, buy the newest you can afford applies to almost everything... almost.
The rub is, what's new now will be older tomorrow.
So welcome to the rat race.
Bottom line, you have to feel that what's your's is better than what someone else has (human nature).
And it should be...because it's YOUR'S!
So if you're happy with what you've got enjoy it, if you feel it's time to update, do that.
Air cooled, 996, 997, 998 whatever works for ya.
That said, anyone whom doesn't feel good about owning a 911 has bigger problems.
Cheers,
Sid.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
