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YOUR RESEARCHClay bar treatment
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I used a clay bar on my front bumper, hood and windshield yesterday.
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I use clay bar as part of my polishing technique on all my cars.
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When I use clay bars, I see the dirt and toxins removed on the clay.
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I used Mother's clay bar with Griots Speed Shine, both good produucts.
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I do have a few friends that are fanatical about their cars and still not confident it won't hurt their finish but I have never found it does anything but leave your car feeling like a new Porsche sitting in the showroom floor.
Always wanted to do this, but my son's experience doing one of his cars was exhausting and time consuming. Then
......Groupon saves the day...half price offer, $59 for a clay bar treatment and full detail.
My car looks stunning!!!
I use clay bar as part of my polishing technique on all my cars. The clay bar process is pretty quick and low effort if you do one section at a time and wipe off while it's still wet. Last weekend, I polished my wife's MB station wagon and the clay bar part took under an hour. After that, I did paint cleaner, then Menzerna Final Polish II (light abrasive), then Menzerna polymer sealer. The whole process, including washing, took around 9 hours, but the car looks stunning.
If you use the proper technique and proper lubrication on the paint surface, it's really fast and easy. I also use it on my windshield and I'm always surprised by how much dirt it picks up from the surface of the "clean" glass.
When I show doubters the unbelieveable slickness of a area of paint that has been clay barred vs. an area that appears to be clean but not clay barred. They become immediate converts.
I had planned to clay bar once per year, I didn't find it difficult, its looking like that wont be needed, I think it has a lot to do what area you live in, inside park and the amount of industrial fallout etc. that bonds to the paint surface. I use sealant every 6 months and spray synthetic sealant every month or so after washing and the finish is still superb after 11 months. I am far from expert in this, just sharing my experience where I live.
After I clayed my car last year, I was so happy with the glass like finish, I moved to wet sanding the deeper scratches. I have an almost flawless finish on a 14yo car. It's quite therapeutic watching the rain slide off the car.
Cheers
Rob
Clay bar is the most important step of the detailing process, without doing this you are essentially polishing and waxing the layer of dirt and contaminants on top of your paint.
It takes all of 20 minutes to clay bar an entire car and it makes a world of difference.
I'd recommend doing the process 2x a year along with a good polish and wax!
I've used the clay on multiple Porsches and it is about a 20 minute job if things go well. I do have a few friends that are fanatical about their cars and still not confident it won't hurt their finish but I have never found it does anything but leave your car feeling like a new Porsche sitting in the showroom floor.
I did have a negative experience recently and still don't know what happened. I used Mother's clay bar with Griots Speed Shine, both good produucts. The clay smeared on the finish lke lipstick. I used a very generous amount of speed Shine but still smeared. Of course, I knew it wasn't harmful but a pain in the butt to get it all off...a 20 minute job that took over an hour. I had left the bar open after my first use days earlier (the stuff doesn't harden) so I'm not sure if that made a difference. I used the same combination of products before with no problem. In any case, I chucked that bar and will open a new Griots bar next time. Anyone have a similar experience?
Was it warm out when you did this or did you hold the bar for a long time? I've had that "smearing" happen to me a time or two when the clay gets too warm.
If your paint is already pretty clean, it only takes 20-30 minutes to clay bar it. However, I decided to finally tackle my 2004 F250 (long-box, extended cab) this weekend, which was a construction company truck in a previous life and has literally NEVER been waxed before. It took 4 and a half hours to clay bar that bastard!
Totally worth it so far though, the paint is really coming back to life after 8+ hours of polishing.
The deep zen-like inner stillness that accompanies the clay bar experience is only aroused when interacting with the particular aromas and tactile stimuli of one's own car... There is no transference effect.
Sorry Brad
reading about clay barring convinced me to give it a go. I am a convert. the paint on my 12 year old car now has a mirror like smooth finish. I recommend this to anyone. 20 minutes is about right, but I also waxed afterwards. therapeutic? meh, but car looks new.
Maybe so but what you are actually doing with clay is shearing off a thin layer of paint. This is a large part of the reason for the paint feeling so smooth after a clay treatment. It is not simply the removal of dirt that makes the paint feel so smooth, it is also due the clay grinding off a bit of paint. After all, the clay does not discriminate between dirt or paint.
I get excellent results simply using a mild polish(P21S) a couple of times a year. No need to clay and grind down my paint.
And yes, I'm saving my paint thickness for the next owner.
If you are removing paint with the clay bar there is something wrong. I have been polishing cars professionally for 20+ years and have never had clay, even the most aggressive clay, remove any mils of clear coat. I measure the paint on every car I touch and have never lost any from clay. The P21s paint cleanser is a mild abrasive and that will remove very thin parts of your clear over time.
The clay is simply removing the bonded contaminants from the surface of the paint. That is why the paint is smooth afterwards.
Just my opinion. YMMV.
Do you all clay manually or use the random orbital?
I do the latter but feel that maybe it doesn't do as good of a job as the manual process.
Any opinions on which is better?
I have tried every clay method out there including the da pads. I still prefer to clay by hand. I get more control and still only takes a few minute to do a whole car.
+996. I feel a bit paranoid in having a machine do it. The only time I break out the Porter Cable is to polish only. I do everything else by hand.
Oh, and using something like Ultima Paint Guard plus would be nearly impossible to do with a machine, not that you'd want to...
I clayed my car a few years ago, and waxed with Rejex about a year ago.
Last weekend, I wanted to do the same, so I washed the car and dried it - and it was so clean and shiny, I said the hell with it and didn't clay it again.
Kind of like the Fonz, when he goes to comb his hair, and decides it's perfect and walks away!
It get really hot and humid in Houston, so the best time to do it and be able to take your time is in the rain. plus you don't have to buy that over priced spray that is only used as a lubricant. A light rain works best and feels pretty good too.
IIRC, most detailing clay has a grit equivalency of approx 2500-3500, with the newer finer auto detailing clay coming in at about 5000 grit. So, not too abrasive but it definitely shaves off some paint.
I agree that the P21S polish is mildly(very mildly) abrasive on bare paint. However, the way I use it, to remove the old wax on the car, is VERY easy on the paint.
Good points DC. I see more paint being removed from improper washing and drying techniques as well. All those swirls and micro scratches are missing clear coat.
What? This would be the equivalent of using plain water in a spray bottle as a clay lube. Not recommended IMHO. The "over priced" lubes have special polymers in them which help reduce friction and consequently, potential scratching.
Yeah, im sure it does
...and bottled water is way more healthier to huh.. even though it comes right out of the tap in Atlanta for the most part. You keep buying it and ill keep doing it this way... again, 7 years with my old outdated clay bar and still looks new.. I swear, some of you people over think the smallest things.
I would love to see some pics of your 7 yr old claybar along with your 1300+hp monster. The only thing I have older than 7yrs besides my 996 are a couple underwear I only wear on "special" occasions.
as you wish my dear... but like i told someone else.. in person is the one true way to see and feel it.. of coarse... the only way to experience it would be to lose money to me like so many have done. The fastest street cars have always been been here in Texas..
The last time i looked at clay bars I caw was white and that had been some years ago..I keep this in my shop fridge when not in use.
Yellow car is a Iron block 346 CI with F1A prochagrer making 26 psi boost with a whole lot of come get you some..
Red car is a 427 CI aluminum block with a F2 cog drive at 24 psi boost...pretty much a street ride
Anything else you like to see??? I would really like to get back to the OP's topic... as its really is only fair. I was just trying to voice what i have done and has worked for me..
^^
Awesome !
When I use clay bars, I see the dirt and toxins removed on the clay. Fold it over a few more times, then toss it. Not sure how you can keep that clay for so long??
Exactly, I would not want to chance a lil dirty $10 claybar vs a $5k respray. Maybe your trees down there don't produce the kind of sap we have?
Nice rides and yes since your roads are so long and open down there, it def helps to have that extra power. I'd have to agree on TX having some of the fastest cars. Have you done the TX mile by chance? Any numbers?
Oh, and say hi to my bud, Hennessey for me.
I can't keep a clay bar for more than a few hours. I ALWAYS drop it on the ground and have to break out a new one. There is a reason why I buy these things in bulk.
I cant run the the mile, i refuse to put a gage in the vert.. A GTO I put together with a TVS2300 and 346 went 196mpg on his second pass... I'm earlier.. car made 1270 on the F1a.. it currently has a D1 now makes around 900ish.. but almost just as fast because i dot have issue with traction on the big end anymore. The last race i did was 2 races, 50 to 180 and around 140ish I got sideways both times..almost went in a wall.. so it was enoguh for me. I don't a lot of racing anymore..just the occasional runs here and there.. mostly just cruises.. here a video of a few of us just having fun..
http://player.vimeo.com/video/13836298
I don't go to the track all that much at all, the last time was here where my belt started to slip and at 6300rpms i was making 18psi and then i dropped down to 10-11 psi thru the power band all the way to 7400 where i shift..was pretty disappointed with the race, believe i went 10.4 ish and he went 10.3. You can actually see where i started to slip after second gear... car has a high 9 in it if i would get to the track more often.. but oh well..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lc2Yz_IG4o0
I don't get to drive the cars like i use too, so they stay in a the shop.. trees are pretty bad but its the pollen that gets you.
Ya im always dropping mine too...they become wheel cleaners after that. So do you really buy in bulk? If so where from? Around here all i have been able to find are the 2 bar kits with the spray bottle for $30. Dont need more spray bottles...now that i know i can clay bar in the rain!
Believe it or not, I buy mine from China. The bars are at least three times the size of the two bar kit in the stores. I buy the blue 3m and usually pay about 2 bucks a bar. The downside is that shipping is slow. I typically have enough on hand for 6 or more months. Hit up eBay and search for the 3M clay. You can always get a better price from the Chinese vendors if you just ask.
A little history of clay. For years, one company has held the international patent on clay. It is mined in Australia and then sold to Mothers, Meguiars, etc. They spec what color they want and resell under their name. I have used them all and have come to realize that clay is clay when it comes down to it.
I store mine in the fridge in summer. Otherwise it gets too gummy. I heat it up just by kneading it like dough.
Oh man glad to hear about the blue 3m stuff. I bought a few bars last year but haven't really been eager to use it yet.
But isn't there two grades of clay with one type being slightly more aggressive?
Personally, I wish the 3m stuff was white or some other light color so I could gauge the dirtiness more easily.
Personally if I was making anywhere close to 1k, I def want to run the mile or there wouldn't really be a point for me.
Are you having any chassis flex considering you have a vert at those power levels?
What's with the edited film showing no time at the end of the 1/4?
What the point of running by yourself? Now TI is where its at.. but that's another story for another day.. If i cant race somebody at something..i get bored.
No flex... but i built it to be a street car, all 3800lbs or so.. its pretty much stock chassis with the addition of coil overs... and here another video of the run.. real time was 10.6 at 139.. Ran 10.4 at 143ish? 2 weeks prior and made a few tuning changes before the race.. just wasn't my day..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-5wEhg_JIs&feature=youtube
It is hard to judge the aggressiveness of clay since there is no industry standard for color and grade. I find that the 3M is right in the middle and can tackle most any job that comes my way. Hopefully, once the patent runs out soon, there will be a rush to standardize the grades and colors.
Guys here can argue what's the point in running in a straight line?
Why is it whenever someone post a straight line time it's often followed up by some excuse?
I do know that those power levels with stock chassis and tires take some skill to get right and I'm assuming you're no Tony Schumacher like most of us.
I'm no drag racer... i actually hate the track, but it is what it is, and its 15 mins from the house. My car is a full 6 sp car..not auto.. If i could race people at a road coarse i would, but they all require a cage as well..
Yeah generally verts= power for personal street enjoyment only unless one wishes to install a cage but then it tends to ruin the lines of the vert in most cases. Fair enough...
The Griot's clay is my choice. It's the largest over the counter quantity I've seen, comes in its own air-tight jar (smart) and Griot's doesn't package it with a detail spray to up the price. It's first rate clay and the quantity is more than enough for one year on a daily driver. I clay before each seaonal polishing/cleanign, usually during the car washing while the suds provide plenty of lubrication. Once its been clayed (and washed again to remove remnants) and polished, I follow up with a layer of synthetic wax for durability vs. going with a pure carnauba paste wax. I do this twice a year maybe three times at most. The less you touch the paint the better.
I also, generally try to avoid applying a paste wax in between seasonal polishing since a top quality spray wax like Griot's Spray Wax provides an excellent finish and require much less paint touching. Only a well trained eye could tell the difference between a car that had a manually or machine applied wax vs a spray wax with a decent amount of wax.
I like most of Griots stuff and used to use it, but once you go on any detailing forums, you open up a can of worms. I haven't gone back to Griots since.
Griots is a fantastic, family owned company with great products. There are too many detailing products out there to list. I have been amazed by the advancement in detailing technology over the past five years. No longer are the hobbyists relegated to buying whatever is on the shelf at the parts store. A whole new world is now open to hobbyists and pros alike. You can buy virtually anything I can with very few exceptions.
I urge my clients to step out of the box and experiment with new products. They are usually amazed at the results.
On my upcoming detail thread for my 996, I will be showing some of this new technology. Micro fiber polishing pads, high tech paint cleansers and semi permanent coatings to name a few. I will shoot as much video as I can and post them here in segments.
The point of this post is to urge you guys to step away from the routine and try something new. You will not regret it!
The paint on the car now is clean. Thundertub kept the car washed and waxed regularly. But, as detailer, I see beyond the cleanliness. What I see are years of micro marring, ie, swirl marks. Disclaimer: 99.9% of cars have swirl marks...mine included. It is inevitable through washing and drying. They can however, be minimized. What is a swirl mark? Look at your car in the sun or under bright lights. You will see what look like spider webs. They are typically circular as that is how we wash and dry.
So, although the paint is clean it is not flat. Only true, flat paint will reflect correctly. The only way to remove the swirls is to remove clear coat down to the level of the scratch and it disappears. Leveling clear coat or paint is not as extreme as it sounds.
I will machine polish the paint in three steps. Step one is a mildly aggressive compound to do the grunt work and then two more applications of machine applied finer polishes.
The cool thing that I will do is top the now "perfect as I can get it" paint is with a semi permanent nano coating. This coating will allow me to not have to wax the car for at least one year and most likely two years or more. The coating is applied by hand in two coats, curing in between. The result will be rich, dark paint that is scratch resistant. Nothing out there is truly scratch proof. With a proper wash and dry regimen, the risk of adding in new swirls is minimized.
I think that it will be a very informative thread. And yes, everything that I show you is something that all of you can do with a little patience and practice.
A clay bar tip I got from a detailer years ago...
Never use the whole bar, or even large pieces of the bar! Keep it in a sealed zip-lock and just take a very small piece of it to work with, marble sized. Flatten out and use that piece, folding/flattening it frequently. When you accidently drop it on the ground (as you inevitably will!) or when the piece starts to get dark with contaminates, toss that piece and start over with a new piece.
Even a tiny contaminant from the ground that you didn't spot scratch the heck out of your paint, often not right away but after it gets exposed in just the right way...
+1 damn right!!!! nice avatar!!! what's the story?
Eagle One makes a "Nano Wax," I use it all over the car....dark plastic/rubber bits...paint...everywhere...well, not on the interior, nothing there but micro-fiber cloths...brings it back to factory look and it lasts a long time....wonderful product
I like clay bars with granola.
Oh wait, these are different clay bars... sorry.
I agree with the therapeutic effect of clay barring the car. Very zen, until the werewife comes out to ask what the F am I doing out there all freaking day????
Crash boom thud goes zen.
Ok in on board with the clay , I'm a self confessed detail junkie, I detail my car
Just for the exercise and to meditate , there is no expense spared for wax
And I love it .cup of coffee a good smoke and NPR make it complete.
I could not believe how much difference it made.
Funny that this thread was posted today... I just bought a clay bar kit last night! I was wondering if the cost and effort was worth it, so this thread has me looking forward to going into a zen-like clay-bar treatment trance.
Just did a full detail with clay bar, machine polish, sealant glaze and 3 coats of Pinnacle Souverin wax.. Car looks incredible! 12 hours of work but totally worth it in my opinion
OK, working on the clay-barring. Great tip... to use part of the clay bar... thanks!
I'm a science geek, so I took some 50X close-ups of the paint before and after clay barring see below, surface debris is circled in red... that was after using paint cleaner. [The other white and light blue dots are the metal flake in the paint]
I'm doing half the car at a time, so that I can evaluate the difference. So far, passenger side is done, and there is a noticeable improvement!
I used a clay bar on my front bumper, hood and windshield yesterday. It always amazes me when I see how much stuff it removes from my paint. The windshield was even more amazing.
Looking good for Cars & Coffee this morning!
The two systems I use the most are CQuartz by CarPro and Opti Guard by Optimum Polymer Technologies. Both are online purchase only. There is a bit of a learning curve with both of these coatings but a diy'er can tackle it with a little practice. The trick is to correct the paint to as close to perfection as you can. Once the coating is on, any defects in the paint will be sealed in.
The nano coatings will easily last two years or longer. The only maintenance that I typically have to perform is a clay bar treatment once a year. That's it. No more waxing and sealing every few months.
My promised paint correction thread will be coming soon. I am going through a major job change this week but will get out in the shop very soon. Pics and vids to follow.
RejeX also works well - I painstakingly applied to wheel rims a few years ago and brake dust still just hoses off. Impressive client list:
http://www.rejex.com/clients.html
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