Is the 996 getting too refined?

I'm driving my C4S and as of late I feel it's so smooth and rock solid that it's less than thrilling. For example, without realizing it I'll be a 100-110 (miles per year of course officer) and it'll feel the same as 50. I'm thinking that for this kind of money the hairs on the back of my neck should be sticking up a bit more often. In my old Boxster or Ferrari at those speeds the car felt...a little bit less settled and there was a challenge and thrill to keep it all together. I don't know...call me crazy...anybody want to join me at the asylum?

You have really, REALLY missed out all these years. My 78 911 Targa has ALWAYS been more stable above 90MPH than below, not to say, at all, that it was unstable below. My 01 AWD 996 was cruising so smoothly and stable at 130+ on the Autobahn that my wife had to look at the speedometer before she told me I was going too fast for her comfort.

I think most of us have driven several 911 versions over the years. It seems to me that it's not just the 996 all of a sudden is sophisticated. It's just more so than the 993 v the 964 v Carrera v SC v S, etc. But then again, I'm no expert, but maybe the smoothness has been replaced by angst over whether or not the engine is going to blow/oil or coolant is going to leak/etc. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Simple solution, get an older 911.......

I have always wondered why folks say that the 996 is such a GT sports car. If I drive my wife's IS300, my 996 feels like an old buckboard.

The smoothness works for me, since I plan to use mine as a daily driver...when i get it back

[quote]Originally posted by Don Watson: <strong>I'm no expert, but maybe the smoothness has been replaced by angst over whether or not the engine is going to blow/oil or coolant is going to leak/etc. </strong><hr></blockquote>Definitely a worth while trade-off. And I know this car is much less expensive to maintain than the air cooled older Carreras. Maybe I need to drive my wife's car some more. Or drive with the sunroof open and windows down more frequently. <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

Jim, I know EXACTLY how you feel. What you need is a Mazda Miata. Smiles aplenty.

Guys, I don't know - a lot is made of this. Too much, I think. My brother drives a 996 C2 and, yes, it is more refined than my 993S but it's no Lexus! And as much as I like to joke about the water burners it is one hell of a nice motor. I wish my 3.6 air cooled had the torque band that even the 3.4 996 motor has! You guys have one nice car - and I especially like the new C4S - first 996 that really made me stop and think for a moment... Regards, Ben

Jim I don't think your nuts at all. David E. Davis Jr. of Automobile magazine mentioned something about the Porsche 996's moving into 928 territory and he didn't happen to think that was such a good thing. Recently I got a chance to take a 996 around the block and it just made my 88 928S4 feel so old. It wasn't so much that it was a few hairs quicker at slower speeds (at higher mph things equaled out)but everything felt so light and easy. Anyway, it's not to say there aren't challenges driving a new Porsche at the limit. Just that in the older cars you could really feel like you were doing something at half the limit.

jim open your sunroof and windows! turn up the bose! better yet test drive a lexus or s class mercedes-that is isolation from the road! then try to take some tight corners at speeds you now take for granted--then you'll remeber why you bought your 996 c4s! <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> :

[quote]Originally posted by ignacio: <strong> turn up the bose! </strong><hr></blockquote> ick. why would you want to do that? Bose only sounds good when it's off...

You just need to put some "go louder" stripes onto the car...

[quote]Originally posted by Bins: <strong>You just need to put some "go louder" stripes onto the car...</strong><hr></blockquote>I can't find any stipes to match the purple neon lighting I had intalled to the undercarriage. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

I had a similar "problem" with my 996 Turbo. Here's how I "solved" the problem: 1. H&R coilovers and Ruf rear axle aluminum bushings. Feel the road! 2. GT3 adjustable sway bars. Control understeer! 3. A sports exhaust. Hear the engine! 4. GT3 seats. Even more feel! These are all tradeoffs. The stock Turbo is a very nice GT/sports car. My Turbo is a very nice sports car

I started having the same feelings after some time in the C4S. There is only so much you can do on the road. Even when pushed to the point of insanity on the road, the darn car is so refined and competent, it IS almost just a ho-hum experience. Finally took it to a road course. I think I've found the solution!! I don't push it as hard as the other guys, but enough so I can get my jollies. When I say I don't push it as hard as the other guys, I'm talking about how it FEELS to me. To the other cars, one guy said I was pushing HIM! I'm still not anywhere near the cars limit, and I'm more appreciative of one of the reasons for purchasing the car: PERFORMANCE!! One problem: I'm getting **** about this tire pressure thing. It's driving me nuts!!

It is just the trend. Cars do normally get more refined. The 911SC and the 964 were less refined than the 993, the 996 less than the 993, etc. Yet, for all models you can take the stock model and modify it to your taste...

OR you could make a cd with the sounds of a SC, 964, 993 depending on you mood... call it p-car RRRRRRRythms

I think its more than just Porsche, all new cars feel more stable at speed. The engineering is simply advancing. My Excursion feels very confy at 80 mph... while towing my Porsche! If you want an thrill ride at 90 buy a 1988 Hyundai. I would suggest a Yugo, but they don't go that fast. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

[quote]Originally posted by Bins: <strong>OR you could make a cd with the sounds of a SC, 964, 993 depending on you mood... call it p-car RRRRRRRythms</strong><hr></blockquote>Hey, don't tempt me. My CD comes out next month and the Ferrari is on it. The disc is mastered next week and it's not too late to squeez a sound clip of the C4S in there. Or would you prefer the exhaust note of my wife's ML320? Hmm...what exhaust note? VS, Thanks for those ideas. The first two mods could be the fix. I like the seats I have and need them to flex foward to get my kids in the back.

Bins, Such a CD exists. It has about 20 different air-cooled 911s on it (911, 991S, 2.7 RS, 930, 964, 993, 935, GT2, GT2, you name it...). It was included with a book on the Porsche Flat6 Engine by Tobias Aichele. Book was not so great, but the German version included the CD.

True to fact that with your previous resume of cars being the boxster and ferrari that they are convertibles-definitely the sounds and feeling of the car is more pronounced then with a hardtop(even with soft-top closed still more engaging soundwise). Maybe a better decision was going for a 996 convertible. But if you plan to keep the C4S I would recommend the sport exahust as well as suspension set up and I think you'll be happy with the results. Regards. Mike

Many seem to recommend the sports exhaust so I presume thats the way to go

I have that same feeling with my current 996 vs my 90 964. But, honestly 964 wasnt a good car. The 964 might be more fun but I would be caught dead in that thing when it gets wet outside. Also the upkeep was a nitemare and really at this day and age. NO ONE SHOULD LIVE WITH CARS THAT BREAK EVERY OTHER MONTH. Now if that is part of owning a older porsche. Keep it! That old 964 drove me to buy a M3. But, nice to be back to porsche even if it feels like GT. I guess mabye we can ask a professional race car driver and see if he still wants to track his OLD vs the NEW. I think they might say, why go slower and be unsafe at the sametime. Just part of new techonlogy! You can fight it or just join get on board. Just my two cents

It's been raining out of control here for the past week. I will say that this car--C4S--handles unbelievable in the wet! And I'm carving through the highway traffic at speeds--wet or dry-- with concomitant feel of security that I cannot believe! Unfortunately this car is so stable, secure, and confidence inspiring at speed that I fear I will get pulled over. Thank goodness I didn't get the TT!

Too refined??? At first I didn't really understand the question. My mother always said "you can't have your cake and eat it too!" That's the only time that I can remember that she was wrong. My 01 C4 is the closest I have ever come to having my cake and eating it too.

i like refinement and expect that it will be present in abundance in a $90k car. the c4s does not disappoint! stable at almost any speed and in almost any conditions within reason. if you want less refinement get a bmw z3 M coupe and save yourself $45k! the m-coupe is fast, reliable, and comfortable but has lower limits on the corners. fairly easy to spin out --like a 79 911sc without the mechanical hassles. BUT it is no substitute for a 2002 c4s or even a c2 because it is less refined and less capable. also a hell of a lot cheaper--see comparisomn test from recent evo magazine present in full text on their website. for my taste-i'll take refinement every time as long as i can afford it! i loved my '79 911sc--from 1979 to 83--but it doesn't hold a candle to the 2002 c4s. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

[quote]Originally posted by bloke: <strong>I have that same feeling with my current 996 vs my 90 964. But, honestly 964 wasnt a good car. The 964 might be more fun but I would be caught dead in that thing when it gets wet outside. Also the upkeep was a nitemare and really at this day and age. NO ONE SHOULD LIVE WITH CARS THAT BREAK EVERY OTHER MONTH. Now if that is part of owning a older porsche. Keep it! That old 964 drove me to buy a M3. But, nice to be back to porsche even if it feels like GT. I guess mabye we can ask a professional race car driver and see if he still wants to track his OLD vs the NEW. I think they might say, why go slower and be unsafe at the sametime. Just part of new techonlogy! You can fight it or just join get on board. Just my two cents</strong><hr></blockquote> I am sorry you had a bad experience with your 964. I don't think it is fair to say that the 964 is 'not a good car'. You can justify your GT cruiser any way you want. The 3.6 aircooled engine is astounding - the noise is spectacular especially above 4000rpm or so. The caveman-like howl it emits makes any other car seem essentially lifeless. This is a car that beats its chest and wears its heart on its sleeve. If we look at performance, the Ring times for the 964RS is 8 mins 15 secs, the Carrera C4S 996 is one second slower. I know this is very dependent on driver skill (as well as bravery and sheer stupidity), but clearly the potential is there. We all have our own opinions but I do doubt that I will be purchasing a 996 in the future. Unless its a GT3. After all, you have to have SOME excitement, right? This is not a 'flaming'comment - just had to respond to the '964 breaks down every couple of months' statement. This is complete drivel. Drive safely.

[quote]Originally posted by Christer: <strong>The caveman-like howl it emits makes any other car seem essentially lifeless. This is a car that beats its chest and wears its heart on its sleeve.</strong><hr></blockquote> Wonderfully put! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

[quote]Originally posted by ignacio: <strong>i like refinement and expect that it will be present in abundance in a $90k car. the c4s does not disappoint! stable at almost any speed and in almost any conditions within reason. if you want less refinement get a bmw z3 M coupe and save yourself $45k! the m-coupe is fast, reliable, and comfortable but has lower limits on the corners. fairly easy to spin out --like a 79 911sc without the mechanical hassles. BUT it is no substitute for a 2002 c4s or even a c2 because it is less refined and less capable. also a hell of a lot cheaper--see comparisomn test from recent evo magazine present in full text on their website. for my taste-i'll take refinement every time as long as i can afford it! i loved my '79 911sc--from 1979 to 83--but it doesn't hold a candle to the 2002 c4s. <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote> Ditto. Or, if not the M3 coupe, get a Z06. Definite bang for your buck. Come to think of it, why not a Mustang ?

Palting, <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

palting i'm not sure i could afford the insurance or doctor bills that would be associated with a mustang cobra 'vettes are even worse! i can't advise sinking any lower than a bmw m coupe (not the roadster). <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

Just get one of these.... a new/old car <a href="http://www.motortrend.com/may02/porschegt/porschegt_f.html" target="_blank">http://www.motortrend.com/may02/porschegt/porschegt_f.html</a> First paragraph addresses what must be a "common" complaint Seinfeld told Porsche they got "mushy" w/ the 996. PCNA said you have yet to see what is to come...Whatever the hell that means