When cars are too smart

A recent article in the Philadelphia Inquirer may be of interest. It seems a local man was convicted of manslaughter, and drunk driving, and sentenced to 3 years in prison based on the black box in his late model Corvette. The box is there to record real time events when the airbags are deployed. It 'told" the investigators that he was traveling 106, and did not brake, when the bags deployed ( and he slammed into the car in front). The box records speed, use of seatbelt,and brake activity.The prosecutors stated that this was the first case of its kind in the nation. It was also noted that the box is on the Corvette, and some other high end GM cars. Perry

I have a C5 Vette that has the box. I do not really like the idea of the government monitoring me, but if it convicts just one drunk driver then I support it wholeheartly. The social need of the community to prevent drunk driving far outweights my desire to avoid government intrusion into my private life. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

I hope the prosecutor properly subpeona'd the car before it gave up this testimony. The ACLU will have some real fun with this one. Who "owns" the data in your car...

Well with regards to the black box if owner of the car was not informed of this prior to purchase of car then the evidence from the box should be considered inadmissable and could not be used in the court of law and you're right the ACLU would have a field day with this if black box wasn't disclosed(informed consent/disclosure) to the owner. Off the record- the guy should be incarcerated and should take full responsibility for his actions. Regards. Mike

Well with regards to the black box if owner of the car was not informed of this prior to purchase of car then the evidence from the box should be considered inadmissable and could not be used in the court of law and you're right the ACLU would have a field day with this if black box wasn't disclosed(informed consent/full disclosure) to the owner. Off the record- the guy should be incarcerated and should take full responsibility for his actions. Regards. Mike

You guys are out of control

Here in Europe there was a discussion about this topic about a year ago. Some Policeman chief said that this system would be great to compare where it happens, and all the data received from this box. In the way to resolve and improve some problems of the road and avoid accidents... ,(well in one side is true but in the other this is one more control system from the state on you..) ...so seems to be rejected by the population.. Personally, I wouldn't buy a car with that *#*% system... Anyways this is a topic for, and against the utility of the black box.

Instead of making cars record data at the time of an accident, why not make the cars safer in accidents? We have the technology. I see accidents all the time in Indy, Nascar, etc, and most people walk away unscathed. Why not employ some of that technology on everyday cars?

If you look at all the accidents, most of them are due to "driver error". Rare is there an accident caused by failed transmission/steering, etc. It is usually a drver who is drunk, or speeding, or unable to maintain control, or tailgating, or inattentive, or all of the above that is the cause of the problem. I don't think we need cars that are as safe as race cars, with roll cages, harnesses. We need drivers that are as safe as race car drivers. Towards that end, I think the black box is a good idea. If the driver is an unsafe driver, he has no right to be on the road. And if the black box will weed these drivers out, so much the better. The scenario in the Philadelphia Enquirer is a case in point. Manslaughter means he killed somebody, wantonly done as proven by the black box. I personally feel he deserves more than a three year jail sentence. As far a privacy is concerned, I believe that once you are in an accident that involves other people, the right to privacy takes second place to determining the cause of the accident. Precisely determining the cause of the accident can save lives from future simillar accidents. The black box can direct improvements to the roadway, car or driver pool.

Well said Palting. Couldn't agree more. Regards.

Be careful with where you give away your rights to privacy. Although today the black box was used to demonstrate certain conditions at the time of the accident, in the future, they could be expanded to log extended time periods which could be used as circumstantial evidence to convict a person of an event that might not have been their fault. A person who hit someone who was obeying all laws and limits at the time strikes a pedestrian who steps off the sidewalk into oncoming traffic. The person is killed. The driver made all possible attempts to avoid the accident, but the black box shows that the person has a history of 'hi speed' driving according to the black box. Could you make a conviction based on that.... BE CAREFUL!!! No Box for me!

I think there is an important point that Ed touched on. When the rights of an individual are sacrificed, it is often rationalized with the belief that it is "for the greater good". Books like The Handmaid's Tale instantly come to mind. But when do we draw the line? Don't we have as much right to privacy as individuals as we do a right to feel safe (ie, safe from drunk drivers, etc.)? Should one supercede the other? Also, do we actually feel "Safer"? After all, technology of this power could easily be abused. Call me paranoid, but this is just the beginning. Just one step closer to totalitarianism.

I think you guys are right about technology having the potential to abuse privacy, but I also think there is a happy medium. And in a way we are in it (ie, with the black box recording the details of the accident at the time of the accident -- no more, no less). When boundaries get overstepped, that's when it is our right and our perogative to fight back. One of the key privileges of being an American. As for now, with the black box the way it is, count me in for one!! When another drunk driver in his assinine state kills an innocent victim, just remember: that victim may have found a cure for cancer, run for President, or changed the world that we live in for the better. And now we will never know. The sooner these people are put off the street the better. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR DRUNK DRIVING! Period. Regards.

I'm tired of having my rights taken away for "the greater good". I have a friend who doesn't smoke and dislikes guns but he aways votes against legislation and legislators who want to impose more laws on them for the same reason. When I asked him why his reply was simple, tobacco and gun rights today, my right to do something I enjoy tommorrow. Sure get the drunks (and other bad drivers) off the roads but DON'T even think about whittling away a little more at my privacy to do it. You wanna help make the roads safer? Why not have drivers ed classes for new drivers include learning how to actually control a car. My grandfather taught me in an empty parking lot in the middle of a snowstorm, some of those same lessons have prevented an accident more than once.

This is getting to be quite a discussion! Philosophy, ethics, patriotism, all being thrown into the pot. As a culture and as a nation, we Americans have a tendency to look at rules and laws as something directed against us. We are, after all, a nation founded by the persecuted running away from such abuse of law. We have a tendency to look at the law from the perpetrators point of view, and want to protect that alleged perpetrators rights. I agree with the principle, but I disagree with the extent with which we have implemented it. It's about time we look at things from the victims point of view. Lets look at this black box item, quite simple compared to all the ills that abound. I suggest we look at it from a victims point of view, rather than from the perpetrator's point. Here you are, driving your brand new C4S, delivering your daughter to school because she missed the school bus. 25 mph zone, stop sign. You are fully stopped, look left, look right, all clear, proceed. Then, this idiot in an Expedition comes out of nowhere doing 60 mph and T-Bones you. Create as much havoc, death and destruction as you want. But, the idiot claims you ran the stop sign driving this "race car" while he was doing at most 30 mph in his "family car". If I hadn't bludgeoned this idiot to death yet, I would want him to spend as much time in jail as all the proof in that black box will allow. But, if I was the idiot and did run the stop sign, the black box will prove that as well, much to the relief of the Expedition driver. There is a potential for ANYTHING to be abused. And if we never start anything good because of the potential for abuse, we'll never get anything done

Palting, you are justified in the sentiments expressed in your previous post. However, I would like to stay away from one specific example, and rather discuss how this "Black Box" affects all of us as a population. Could you really live with the fact that someone is watching your every move everytime you step into your car? Could you live with the paranoia? This doesn't limit them to the "time of the accident". They can monitor all your driving habits, and anything you do can be used to discredit you in the future. They will know where you've been, how long you were there, and when you went there. This is the makings of a totalitarian regime. It has nothin to do with "looking from the perspective of the criminal". This is simply a matter of protecting our rights as individuals. Step by step you will give up your rights. And I'm not being melodramatic. One look at history will reveal many examples where similar situations have taken place.