Tips on check list before test driving the car?

As some of you know, I'm about to make my 996 purchase and want to be as prepared as humanly possible. I'm not in the US but continental Europe so just looking for tips what I can do to do the first initial sort of vehicles, so I'm not wasting my time. I guess the cars in themselves are the same all over the world bar a few plastic things here and there 1. So, I know that I want a full history with a service book stamped, signed and dated. 2. Check that the interior of the car "matches" in tear and wear with the trip-counter (that it has not been clocked) 3. Check for damages, like lift the carpet(s) where available and see if the colour of the paint is uniform and spot welding - Same with wear on tyres. 4. Obvious to check for rust around doors, and wheel caps. So, these are the obvious ones... What about the hidden extra bonus tips you may have? Cheerio, F

As good a list as I have ever seen... Probably warrants a separate post. Generic, but good for any used car purchase. The writer is a long-time used car dealer. http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...2/#more-456083

Thanks rpm's S2 ... I don't see "kicking the tires" anywhere in the list which is a good sign ;-) Btw, is there a drawing/diagram (or photo's) of where the different fluid's are filled up on the 996 anywhere? Basically, where is the coolant, oil dipstick (should be easy enough to locate), brake fluid etc?

I always climb under the car with a flashlight and look for leaks or fluid seeping anywhere. The first 996 I ever looked at was beautiful but slightly overpriced. Then I looked under it and there were oil stains all over the place. Check all under the engine compartment and at each corner at least.

This the list I made myself when checking out my 996. Take your time, don't overlook anything, and don't go into it thinking with your heart. Don't be afraid to pass on a car if something comes up - there are a lot of 996s out there. PPI Checklist Year / Make / Model: Price: Color (ext/int): Mileage: # owners: VIN: Seller: Address: Phone: PRE DRIVE Exterior - paint cond, nicks/scratches, cracks (F/R bumpers, rocker panels) Interior - scratches, worn down seats/dash, missing pieces Electronics - climate control, radio, CD player, buttons, instruments Fuse Box - intact and untouched Battery - electrolyte level / corrosion Fluids - brake, coolant, power steering Pads (2.5mm or less remaining = replace) Rotors - scoring, bluish, check for lip (worn 1mm or more = replace) Tires - tread remaining, even wear L/R, F/R Engine - dirty or signs of leakage around A/C, alternator, water pump, oil pan/filter Oil - signs of coolant Belt Wear - cracks or nicks Engine Mounts Oil leaks - heads, block, tranny, signs of RMS leakage or IMS failure Rust - engine block/heads, suspension, subframe Under Panels -scraped or missing Suspension Bushings - cracked or worn down CV Joints - cracked or torn Exhaust - rusty or loose Radiators - leaks or damage to grills Docs - owners manual, 2 keys, 1 spare key, radio code TEST DRIVE Engine Smoking? Idle - smooth @ 800rpm, stumbles when A/C switched on? Noises - belt, water pump, A/C, power steering Gears / Clutch - smooth shifting thru all fwd gears and reverse? Alignment - stays centered? Acceleration - Stumbles? Progressive up to redline? Braking - Vibrations? Firm pedal? Steering - excessive play? L to R transition quick and stiff? Post Drive - strange noises or issues restarting?

Try to start the car when it is absolutely stone cold, overnight. Have the owner start the car with you in back, with the engine cover open. Listen for rattles as it starts up and look for smoke coming from the tail pipe.

Engine lid holds water even though it has drains. Look on the rim where the metal is folded over for signs of rust. The water pools in that area. Best after washing the car or rains to lift the engine lid and hold it open so that the water drains out.

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If you open engine cover (switch is on the sill when you open driver door) it is pretty obvious where dip stick is - right in front of you -there is also electronic dipstick - if you turn on ignition (but don't start engine) this will run in 5 secs or so if engine is cold. Even if oil is black this is not necessarily bad - just see service record of when oil was last changed and what oil was used (if that is available). Oil should not be over max line - that could cause problems - and if at min could point to oil consumption (again not necessarily an issue - but something to ask about). If you decide to go to full PPO - you could ask the inspection to pull the oil filter and examine for metal particles (at your cost of course). Filters are about $20 here plus a < quart of oil to do that. Coolant reservoir is to your left - again obvious - and should be clear (if yellowed probably needs replacing - but that is not too expensive) Coolant is pink (you might need to shine flashlight through the tank to see it well) and should be at the min line when cold. Brake fluid is in front trunk (again switch to open is by driver door) - if they are maintaining to Porsche spec should have been changed every two years (check record if available) and should be light golden color and between min and max marks on level ground). Another thing to check is tire pressure - are these to spec - if not - was the owner deliberately running low (and why ?) - again not an issue in itself, but it pressure are set correctly would be further evidence of good maintenance ....

Hindsight is always 20/20. Just to add to the comments above I would have done the following if I had known more when I bought mine: 1. Check the dates on the tyres. Usually 4 digits in an oval. First 2 are the week of manufacture second 2 are the year. Tyres are expensive so you don't want old tyres. 2. Lock the car with the remote and see if it beeps/honks. If it does there is a problem with the alarm system/switches (make sure everything is closed including the centre compartment). You want no beep/honk. 3. In relation to 2 above - look in the frunk, remove the battery plastic cover and look for the alarm horn. Make sure it is connected. If its not, 2 above will not be effective. 4. Once warm/hot, shut the car off and start it immediately. If it sounds like its got a weak battery you 're going to be looking at either a new starter, alternator or wiring between them - or worst case all 3. 5. Make sure all the interior plastics are there (seat sides, sun visors etc etc.) They're really expensive. 6. Screech on startup - usually the drive belt or one of the rollers. 7. No clunks from the suspension when going over uneven, bumpy roads. From the front usually means either anti roll bar bushes, lower arms or strut top mounts - or again all 3 !! Can't think of much else right now which hasn't been covered. Good luck

Thanks again all... This is GOLD and I'm going to print this out for my check-list manual which I'm going to bring with me... Thanks a mill

Drivers lic-check Cars insured- check Key- check Brake chk -chk Drive drive drive.

Oh yes !!! most important. Make sure that what the seller is offering is correct. By this I mean. Is it a C2/C4 or a C4S. My seller claimed it to be a C2S - right !!!! Obtain the VIN and run a check. Matching numbers (engine and chassis) against paperwork Also on the insode frunk lid there should be an option code sticker. (A copy of this might also be available in the owners log book.) Make sure all the options as listed (again you can use a decoder) are there. If not why not !!

Hi Karl996 (funny how we share the same "sur-number" ), Yes of course. I had forgot about the option label and will check this as well. I'm going to buy through a dealership and this being Switzerland the chance of funny business is 1 to a million, but again, I'm going to check everything in detail just to make sure.

Macster wrote up a great checklist/test drive routine. Search for his post on the topic. S.

I'd use the CPO checklist that Porsche uses. This will give you most everything you need/want to know. This is pretty comprehensive so you may want to pick and choose what's important to you. http://www.cars.com/go/advice/shoppi...inspection.pdf Have a good body and paint shop check for prior damage/repainted areas get the car on a lift and have a good tech go over the underside with you look at the brakes, rotors, wet spots anywhere? Chassis rust or corrosion? 1. records/receipts of service history, yes. Book stamped, signed and dated, not needed 2. on Porsches, interior abuse and wear can be at either extreme. It depends on the PO. 3. paint under the carpet and spot welds will look fine on most all cars except a very small percentage of salvaged vehicles. Removing the bumper covers or carpet in the frunk is more telling 4. if you see any rust anywhere, run away If you are not well schooled in mechanics and auto repair, get some pro to help you. GL!

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What's a bit funnier is that I know a guy called Frank who lives in Bern and is shortly getting married to an Asian girl !!! Now that would be the ultimate coincidence. Good luck with the purchase. 9 months down the line and she still puts a grin on my face every time

One thing I thought of waking up this morning was if there should be a Master Key for the car (or a main type of key) like the red master key for some Maserati's? How many keys does the car originally come with? And is there some extra documentation for coding or something should one lose the key(s)? I'm getting closer now

Frank your comment about funny business in Switzerland. 1 in a million, not sure I agree with you. I just bought my 996TT from a Porsche main dealer (Swiss) and they advised me as part of their inspection pre sale car was spot on. Having just taken it to a specialist to have a ride height issue checked, he stated the car was dangerous to drive at high speed. Just a heads up warning, don't let confidence in Swiss sales practice put you at ease. For the keys, normally 3 keys. Two standard drivers keys and one non electronic emergency door key. At least that's what came with mine. I travelled the length and breadth of the Country before I got mine, best of luck with the hunt. If you need any info on local tech contacts etc let me know. Steve

More about price than about choosing a car, but still important I think: There are a few consumables on the 996 that are seriously expensive. Tires are the obvious example, and those you can judge by looking at the tread and the build date (performance tires are good for about five years). Some would put a water pump and an AOS on this list, some a replacement IMS bearing. Brakes might pass a certification, but still need replacement in a year or two. The point is, any of these could be a four figure bill, so it's worth noting what is and isn't in the car's near future when you're taking stock.

Thanks for tip BruceP . I have taken this into consideration as well. Living quite close to Germany (a few hours by car) I should be able to save some money on maintenance when going further north on vacation but still have planned a high contingency set aside for sudden repairs which have to be made locally. This said, I don't think a service call would be better in Germany just because it's a German car, but compared to Swiss prices on everything there must be something to be saved.

Make sure that you get at least two working keys. A complete new one, head, blade and programming cost ~ $300 US

Just another thought. Take a friend with you when evaluating a used car. There are so many things to check, consider, especially with p-cars, and potential buyers tend to get excited and forgetful when looking at possible purchases. One strategy: the potential buyer can work his check list while his friend reviews the service records, quizes the seller, etc. relinuca

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Yes this is something I also had in mind. As I have my heart deeply involved with this project, and my other half doesn't (or rather she couldn't care the less), she will be in charge of keeping me on track and ask the critical questions I will most likely sit behind the steering wheel grinning

One more question, what about tailpipe (exhaust) smoke in general? Should there be some on start up only (burning excess oil?) and would the colour of the fumes tell me something about the state of the engine? Also, when is the best time to check the oil level? Cold or warm?

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I'll repeat what the techs told me when I asked them about engine smoking on startup. They said they see it all the time with cars at the dealer. These cars get started often but run no time at all which is treatment that encourages these engines to smoke upon startup. The techs tell me that all they note is if the smoking is not accompanied by any untoward engine behavior, the CEL does not come on (steady or flashing) and the smoking is shortlived, then the pay the smoking no further mind. If in your case the smoking was something to worry about it would be heavy, persistent and the engine would have a varying/hunting idle, or run out of character rough and the CEL could be on, even flashing. You can check the oil level cold or hot. What you want to be aware of is how level the car is. Level is good. If you check the oil level with the engine cold be aware the reading will be lower (a bar or two on the level display) than it would be if at the same spot you checked the oil hot, yet with the engine having been off long enough to allow the oil sufficient time to drain, such as it can/does. Sincerely, Macster.

OK, I have read through the list of posting and written down all the important points, which I'm taking with me tomorrow for my first 911 viewing. I also have my other half with me who's very sober when it comes to purchasing anything and quite critical so should be a great help. I would just put the money on the car stealers desk and ask for the keys but in this case I have given the money to my GF who had veto... I'll get back after the test drive and viewing of the the 2002.03 996 C4S. Thanks again to all who has helped me out so far.

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Couple of things... First that "stealer" comment. If you really think the dealer is dishonest do not even waste your time going there. One reason is you do not want to do business with a dishonest business. Next the salesman may pick up your attitude and it could have him behaving differently. Car salesmen are for the most part pretty good at reading people and if you walk in with that kind of attitude well, it might negatively affect your experience. Remember, you are going to look at possibly buy a car and no little amount of money is involved. You want to focus on this task, 100%. If you go in with -- maybe not the best description -- a chip on your shoulder you're not focused on the only thing that matters. Finding and buying the car for you at the right price. Furthermore, shopping for and buying your Porsche should be a fun experience. Exciting, tense at times, but at no time should you feel like you are dealing with anyone but an honest person, business. Next if you are going to trade in a car be darn sure you know the car's market value. If you have a trade in you are in effect a car salesman when you walk onto the dealer's lot to make a serious attempt to buy a car. Be prepared. You will be wearing two hats: car buyer and car seller. Also, if financing is involved be current on loan rates, down payments, etc. If you finance you are buying not only a car but the money to buy the car with. As you would know the market price of cars know the market price of money too. As I touched upon above shopping for and ultimately buying your next Porsche should be fun. Walking onto the lot prepared and in the right frame of mind goes a long way towards you having a pleasurable time and driving off with the right car.