V8 powered 996 resale value??

So here is the deal, I have a perfect 1999 996 C4 6 speed car with only 60k on it. It has a perfectly good running engine minus a cracked cylinder wall. I am trying to decide on just selling the stock engine as it sits, resleeving the block and putting it back together as "stock", or installing one of the most powerful lightweight reliable engines ever built, a GM LS series motor just for peice of mind and substantial power increase So lets say I do the LS isntall and two months into summer the car bores me and I want to sell it. I go through cars like crazy and the thought of resale value popped into my mind after I install an LS engine. The install would be professional, as OEM as they come, and tuned for much more power then a stock 996, possibly even be a twin turbo. Regardless of TT or non TT, would you say the value of the car would be increased with a much more powerful reliable zero maintenance LS engine installed? Or decreased? Or similar to stock value. Keep in mind the huge problem for many 996 owners having to deal with risky IMS, RMS, , rod bearing, head cracking, and cylinder cracking issues that cost anywhere from $2k-20k to deal with. Except for the huge power increase and different sound, you would never even know the swap was performed and would not change weight of the car, nor would any features be lost. The features that would be added would be removal of speed limiter, and a valet mode where you flip a switch and the car will only rev to, and drive to a preset limit. So if you left the car in someone elses hands, they would only be ably to go no higher then lets say 4000rpm and 55mph if that would you had desired. What do you think. I want to see what the majority thinks, I know some of you will be against anything other then Porsche parts, but there will be some of you that I am sure would love to own a professionaly built LS car. Especially if you've been painfully bitten by a blown engine. Your opinion on this??

Strictly my opinion here: I wouldn't go near a Porsche with a Chevy engine, period. My experience with General Motors products has been such that I would prefer to walk, which I ended up having to do a lot when I owned GM cars.

Nitro...I've read most of your posts/threads. Figured your biz plan is to see if there is a market for p-cars with v-8 engines. You should go to the GM forums to see if there is a market for v-8 engines with a P-car shell. You know a "car kit Porsche". Good luck!

Im talking the LS motor in particular, not the rest of GM or the vehicles themselves. Not every manufacture always makes stellar components. The LS engines dont have issues in general...

Actually, im not trying to see if theres a market. I dont have time to do alot of work for others lately.

Quotes source post: 9352390

That may well be true (I'll take your word for it), but it doesn't matter to me. If I wanted to use an LS motor, I'd just buy a Camaro, Firebird or Corvette. But honestly, if I wanted a V8 engine I'd go with an E39 BMW M5 or a Porsche 928. Part of what appeals to me about the 911 is the sound of the flat six engine. You asked for opinions, and this is mine. As long as it is associated with General Motors, I'll pass.

Will it still be a Porsche if its very heart/soul has been changed with a different engine? My 2 cents: will not consider buying one (too many questions/concerns will come to mind regardless of documentation). But no doubt there will be that one particular buyer who may think/feeel exactly like you do and will want to buy it.

Yeah, i guess your right, its sll in the eye of the beholder. I like the flat six sound too, but im just looking at a fun factor. A 911 is quite a well engineered car. Handling, style, braking, performance, etc. I was just figuring if i put an LS motor in I would increase fun factor dramatically(imagine your car with a oem reliable affordable 550hp!). You know what it costs to have that power in 996!! Youd have to buy a turbo 996. Lol

Personally, I love crazy engine swaps. And an LS works in anything. I don't think you could charge a premium for a car with a V8 swap, but I think you could definitely sell the car for the same value as a regular 911 of similar condition. Your market of buyers will obviously be much smaller, but if the swap is clean and OEM-like, you could definitely sell it. If the engine in my car were to ever take a crap on me, I know I would not be replacing it with another H6.

V8 in a flat 6? Id sooner a flat 4!. Is that not a bit like a square plug in a round hole.

I think as far as resale value is concerned, you should look up 2 numbers. First, what a rolling chassis in good shape is going for. Second, what your car is worth with a working engine. I'd guess your resale value will be about mid-way between these two numbers, if not a little on the high side. You're going to find alot of people want a Porsche because it's a Porsche, not because it has the characteristics of a Toyota econ-box, which is guaranteed to start for the first 250k miles. Listing off all of the common problems isn't going to be a convincing point. Coming from other car groups, I can tell you the frankenstein builds, no matter how professionally done (and no matter how much better than the original), were always valued lower than pristine original cars.

Quotes source post: 9352266

The only car I've seen fitted with an LS engine that I would like to own is a Pontiac Solstice or Saturn Sky. I spotted a Sky at Santana Row over a year ago at least and the installation of a 6.0l V8 looked factory. Check that: The installation was 'factory' in that it was done by Mallet which has a special relationship with GM. The owner of this particular car told me that the conversion came with a factory warranty and the car could be serviced at any GM dealer. I spent some time looking the setup over and taking pics and talking to the owner and I was quite satisfied that this was a nice engine swap. The put off was the cost: Over $30K and of course that didn't include a donor car. In the case of a Porsche, however, I'm afraid the car would be a Frankenstein. No Porsche dealer or probably even any indy shop would touch the car. Given how GM treated my 06 GTO wtih its 6.0l V8 engine whenever I brought the car in for service I for darn sure wouldn't take a Porsche fitted with a V8 engine to a GM dealership for even a car wash. Even if the engine swap was factory there's a very very small market for Porsches treated to a V8, even the LS. Thus I would think the car's value would be substantially diminished. But it is your time and money and I could be wrong. Sincerely, Macster.

Then maybe Ill just get the one sleeve replaced and put it back together... I dont know, its a hard decision! Lol If I knew Id keep it forever or track the car It would be a no brainer, the LS motor can have the **** beat out of it for 150k and if it were to ever fail its dirt cheap to replace. I need to get the car back running so in the next week ill have to make some decision. repair the one sleeve, buy new cases, the way expensive Nickies deal, or LS. In order so far im thinking; -Replace 1 sleeve and put back together ($1,500) -Sell damaged motor and install a 550hp LS engine ($5,000) -Nickies liners and put back together ($5800) -Install a 5hp briggs engine with electric start ($100)

i vote for fixing the sleeve and turbo kit

Quotes source post: 9352476

Just buy a 996TT. You can have all of the above without compromising the car's pedigree.

Quotes source post: 9352886

Generally one is better off fixing the car's existing engine. Whether to do this of course must take into account the suitability of the engine's current condition before spending no little amount of money on the engine. I'm not up on the single sleeve replacement solution but if one sleeve can be replaced then if (important if!) the engine is basically sound and the one sick cylinder sleeved returns the engine to rosy good health that's probably the best course of action. The car remains unmodified. If the engine's too sick to attempt to resurrect then sourcing an engine from a similar MY car is the next best thing, I guess. Beyond the two choices above... The BS engine option only works if you can raise the car high enough to attach a blade enclosure and blade with adjustable cutting height. Porsche used to make tractors. A Porsche lawnmower could be just the ticket. Mod the engine controller so the spoiler raises at 5mph! Sincerely, Macster.

Resale? You wouldnt even get your money back on the parts to do the swap let alone labour. The car is worth more now as is than with LS1. You best bet is to find a used engine and install it. Plug and go. If you decide to re sleeve the block by taking motor out and putting it back in it maybe as much to just install another 996 running engine. Good time to do the clutch as well. The resale on a 996 is not great and a V8 swap only confirms it as a lawn orniment for life with a for sale sign in the window. With a used 996 engine at least you trade it in or sell it for a little under market value. I dont even want to explain the ABC's of wiring, gauges, fuel presure, suspension and balance issues. Cheaper to throw the keys in and walk away than swap. Find used engine, install and sell the car for a 996 turbo. Same money out of pocket at end of the day if you find the right motor and car.

The LS swap is not a new idea and Nitro wouldn't be the first to do this. As for market, somebody has already determined to do this. Check out this website: http://www.renegadehybrids.com/ Many previous posters do represent the typical Porsche owner by not wanting anything but Porsche parts. However, I would consider myself a car enthusiast before a Porsche purist. If my engine were to go, I would have to think long and hard about not doing the V-8 swap. Basically you would have an engine with the torque of the turbo with much less maintenance. IMHO since the prices of 996s have dropped to affordable levels for many car "enthusiasts" many elitists are not too happy.

Quotes source post: 9353086

I own 2 1998+ LS1 F-Body cars. I swaped one of them in a 1967 F-body. Alot of fun and alot of work. To install it a perfectly good 996 body is a waste of both a LS1 and porsche. A porsche powered 996 is actually more reliable than a LS powered 996. Fabrication and trial/error are not good combination for reliabilty however Renegade do have alot of issues solved. But at a price. Money better spent reverting to stock and selling it for a LS1 camaro.

Quotes source post: 9353086

Having someone put a V8 in a 996 doesn't threaten me or offend my sense of purity of the brand/model. And while 996 car prices have dropped that didn't factor into my comments either. A car is a car and the owner can do with the car as he sees fit. And the value of a car, even a 996 even a Turbo, goes does as time and miles accumulate, whether a 996 with a V8 is produced or not. I've seen a number of cars with the factory engine swapped and while a few cars have been outstanding most have been, pardon the expression, crap. But if the OP can do a good job then that's one less thing to worry about. But it does make selling the car harder. Generally I believe a prospective buyer would want to pay less for such a car in order to mitigate his risk that the car is, well like I said above, crap. IOWs, I think a car with some engine swap like the OP's thinking of doing parallels that of a car that has some major body/paint work or a lot of mods. The job of determining the condition of the car just got a lot harder. Not many prospective Porsche buyers are able or want to try to tackle determining such a car's condition. In fact I dare say no one really wanting a Porsche would consider such a car. Now one might see the car and be swept off his feet and have a change of heart and give up the idea of owning a 'pure' Porsche and instead seriously consider this car. But this kind of buyer is not a Porsche fan but more a gear/engine head or just a car nut. (Hey, we all are to some extent.) Anyhow, the market then for such a car is not with the Porsche market, per se, but a market that consists of a gear/engine head or a car nut, someone who values that sort of car that sort of swap. Thus while the OP might not find anyone really interested in such a car here there are I'm sure other sites (though I'm not aware of any but I don't get out much) where such a car, even the idea of such a car, might produce a flurry of real interest in owning such a car. But ask for a non-refundable deposit just to judge the level of real interest. As I think I posted earlier it is the OP's time and money. Sincerely, Macster.

Realistically I think the car with a very professional job and a V8 conversion may fetch a bit more than a 996 without a motor and quite a bit less than the same 996 with a Porsche motor. Either way I think it would be difficult to sell. I've seen several Jag/Chevy conversions and they seem worth less than the same year stock Camaro and about the same as a Jag without the motor. If your looking at dollars recovered after the conversion, I think your best bet would be to remove the Chevy motor and sell it. Sell the conversion pieces and the Porsche without the motor. I think you'd see the most cash by doing this. I'm basing this on being in the industry full time since the '70s. Interesting projects are just that. There is little if any way to recoup your investment in projects such as this.

Well here is another perspective on V8's in a 911, and I bet most everyone who has commented on this subject would die for one of these! http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/03/g...8-porsche-911/

Quotes source post: 9353244

Good point, but I would take a Ruf engine over GM any day, considering that Ruf really know how to design cars and the engines are designed and built by them for their cars.

Good read Doug, and I agree I would want a custom V8 with those kind of specs hands down over a stock or donor engine anytime...

Quotes source post: 9352886

Where are you getting these outrageously low repair costs from? option 1: you would seriously consider completely tearing down the engine and just replacing the one sleeve (assuming you have access to the $100k's worth of machines to do this with) on that one cylinder/piston and then re-use all of the other existing used parts during tear down? option 2: just curious, what would you spend the remaining $1700 on after you've spent $4100 on the LNE nikies option? option 3: If you can do this for only $100, you must own a junkyard and be pretty damn good welder at the same time.

Quotes source post: 9352266

If you care about resale then this is not the route you want to take. Sure, you'll find a buyer eventually but there is no market value out there for it. It's only worth what a possible one-off buyer might pay for a car that will largely be perceived as a bastard to most Porschephiles. What would someone pay for a 'Vette with an engine out of a GTR? I'm not sure but I am pretty sure it wouldn't find it's top bidder from your typical 'Vette owner. -Eric P.S. it doesn't offend me either and I even said in a separate post that I'd love to see it...but I'd never buy it.

If you want to do the swap just to see what happens and because you want to, then that's fine. What it will be worth depends on how it works out and whether you can find a buyer that likes what you did. I wouldn't go into it assuming you can get your money back however. That might happen, but probably not.

You will double your money with a V8 in it, do it and let us know how you get on. Talk later.

Quotes source post: 9353244

UNF

Quotes source post: 9353244

Darn Dharn this explains why they went out of business

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...All-Categories

Because im not even sure if ill like the car... I think for maximun resale value im going to have the one cylinder sleeved, replace the IMS, new gaskets, and clutch disc and put it back together as stock. The car only has 60k on it and is pretty flawless.....

If you like you Porsche, repair the motor and drive it. If you want to build yourself a hot rod, I would start with something more easily adapted to an engine swap than a 911 chassis. Unless you really relish a challenge, this sounds too daunting to me.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/299206_10150348035923962_644578961_8210998_144829876_n.jpg

Quotes source post: 9355357

Looks like a lot of fun

0.00 it's a Porsche!!!

I would not even consider a 911 with a V-8. It may be fun and more powerful, but it wouldn't be a 911! If I wanted a V-8 I would have looked at other cars. I'm not sure you could ever return the balance of the car to 911 levels. I think the market for a 911 with a V-8 would be very small.

A similar example is a Jaguar E Type with small block V8 power. The market has spoken and those cars, even done to a high standard, generally sell for far less than a similar vintage and model car with a stock lump. Having said that, there are a few shops that sell "Cheguar" conversion kits and even turn-key examples.

I think its many who dont understand or trust what is installed into the car. They feel its somehow got a negative effect on some way or isnt as reliable, or isnt installed correctly.

I think it would be great and I laugh at the comments about the balance. This is not like putting a V-8 into a Miata. The engines weigh near the same and the C.G. is nearly the same as well. I agree that it would make the car somewhat of an outcast, not fitting in with the Porsche group nor the Chevy group, but it would be a hoot. I think my 996 is great but I think it would be better with a LS3 swap. I know everyone doesn't think the same so if I were going for resale value, I would keep it stock. If I were buying a car on the other hand, I would not devalue a V-8 swap if it were done to a high standard. I would not put a premium on it either. Again, this is one man's opinion.

Quotes source post: 9355674

No, and don't take this the wrong way but, it sounds more like you just don't understand the 911 market. With all due respect to others far more knowledgeable than me on the mechanical side of the equation, but perceived reliability isn't the problem with reselling an LS1 powered 911. Most 911 enthusiasts would have bought a Corvette if they wanted a car with an LS1. So, as for resale, you wouldn't be selling a 911. You'd be selling a 911 with a Corvette engine. Imagine yourself showing up to a Corvette owners convention to sell a C6 powered by a modified Honda engine? I don't care how many ponies that sucker's pumping out, how many people do you think would be lining up to buy it? You'll get a lot of people checking out the car, asking about its specs, why you did it, how you did it, how long it took, congratulating you for the work, etc. but good luck selling it to one of them. You're not going to get a different reception from 911 owners with an LS1 in the rear of your 996 and I don't know why you would expect otherwise. It's like trying to tell the "there's no replacement for displacement" crowd that they should have bought an import. Good luck with that. There are a few local car clubs that sponsor weekly cruises during the Summer and every time I've taken my Saab to check out their cars, I get stares from most of the people like I've got horns coming out of my head. Maybe they're just concerned about my car's reliability. After all, it is Ford powered. ;-) -Eric

Hang on a sec guys..... A 1999 996 with 60K miles is worth what...about $15 grand? I bet there's good cars out there for less than that if you shop around. It's not a lot of money guys...I'm sure the OP could find a buyer for his Frankencar for that kind of dough if it's done right. I say it's worth the same (peanuts that is) with either the V8 or the H6. Furthermore - depending on how good a salesman our man is and how good the sucker supply is in his area I bet he could even sell the car for more than $15K as-is. I just heard a story locally about a 1999 996 with a bad respray that sold for $25K. Don't let the resale opportunity guide you. If you want a V8 996 then build one. If you don't well then....don't.

http://www.supercars.net/Pics?viewPi...D=1&pID=555242 http://www.supercars.net/Pics?viewPi...D=1&pID=555213

So what happened to your orginal thoughts about a LSX powered 996 C4 drag car? Did you get the car this weekend as planned?

Quotes source post: 9354236

Huh? As far as I know Ruf is still in business. Their webpage is live and they're still showing new cars. What do you know that I've missed?

The LS swap really makes sense if you blow your engine and want more power wothout fear of blowing a $15k engine ever again. Also if you want the ultimate porsche with some actial big power and arent rich, it's really the only way. How else can you have a reliable low maintenance 700hp+ 996 for less then $20k. so then you havevthe style, handling, braking, and power to match. You have to admit, porsches are incredibly underpowered for what they are...

700hp in a 996 sounds like a death trap to me. Unless you have nerves of steel.

Death trap? How about safe trap?? Do you know how many 700+hp cars dont handle perform or stop like a 911? Its one of the best platforms I have seen yet, and trust me, I have played with just about everything! (Except Jessica Alba)

Then stop talking and start building!

I think I would rather start with a different car. This car is too nice. I think I would rather use a really high mileage 996 and then swap the motors rather then a mint low mileage car. You know?? So I may just put this one together, sell it for a good price, and buy a car that needs some TLC. So far that is the plan, then maybe ill do a mild twin intercooled 800hp setup in the cheaper car. Plus, I am pretty sure I should use the TT transmission. No point in grenading a perfect $3000 transmission for nothing...

Quotes source post: 9356456

It makes sense if you don't care about resale and/or maintaining part of the essence of what makes your car a 911. If you want to do it for the hell of it then do it. I'm not sure what you're not getting. You're on a 911 board trying to tell a bunch of 911 enthusiasts that their cars would be better if they were equipped with Corvette engines. You're just not getting it. You still haven't answered the question I've asked a couple of times now - how many Corvette owners would jump at buying a 'Vette with an import transplant? You know the answer: few to none, yet for some reason you can't wrap your arms around 911 enthusiasts feeling the same way about their cars. You made a comment earlier that I also don't get. You said you weren't even sure if you were going to like the car you bought. What made you buy a 911 in the first place? They're not your passion (nothing wrong with that) but why buy a car that you don't even know if you'd like and then try to convert a bunch of 911 enthusiasts to LS1 fans? No offense, but you're proselytizing to the wrong group. You talk about claims of "improved reliability" as if you really know anything about the M96' reliability (aside from the fear factor posts you've inevitably found online) but I'd never ruin my 911 with an LS1 in the engine bay. -Eric

I come from a world where nothing has the original engine and the land of swapping... A motor does not make the car. Lol, It would be the same exact car, just much more powerful! I like the Porsche performance right out of the box, just not the power, My options to have a fast car would be a TT with $8000 in mods, or a LS motor. I know the proven long term capabilities of the LS motors that is why I love them, if it were up to me, everything would have one... Porsche is on of the ultimate factory performance cars, and the LS is the ultimate engine, combine the two and you have damn near the perfect performance car. I got what I need out of this thread and like I said, I will likely jsut fix this 3.4 , motor, take car of a couple maintenance items like the clutch and IMS, and then sell it and buy a better car to start with for the LS thing...

Quotes source post: 9354101

BUMP

You think so... How about you finance the project then and we will split the profit...

Quotes source post: 9356905

Oh dear now you dont even have the money to do it in the first place...

Im simply responding to your stupid comment, a stupid reply gets a stupid response...... Please dont post in my threads.

Quotes source post: 9356945

Ah that would explain why all your posts to date are stupid. So you have the money, go do it. Let us know how you get on tuning god.

Quotes source post: 9356576

In light of your statement above, I would suggest that you close your thread. That will solve the issue with users insulting one another. Just a suggestion.

Enough.