996 or 964?

Happy Thanksgiving! I have been ruminating on this for a while and thought I would do well to ask this question here to see what might guide me to the best decision. My purchase budget for a 911 narrows me down to two models. The 1989 - 93 Porsche 964 or the 1999 - 2002 Porsche 996. I am tempted to buy the 964 mainly because the air cooled flat 6 is so reliable and seemed to benefit from a more perfectionist attitude from Porsche when it was designed. The 996 with its water cooled 6 is much newer, more modern designed, fast and a bit more comfortable for a daily driver (which it would be). My main concern, of course, is the IMS design flaw that, if it grenades would cost me the price of the car to repair / replace the engine. I am aware that the Flat Six LN retrofit may solve the problem but if I found these two cars with similar mileage, which way should I go for longevity and reliability? Your thoughts would be most welcome. Thanks in advance! Bob

My next Porsche will probably be an older, air-cooled car. A 964 or even an SC (the 911 that finally made me 'get it'). But not because they were perfectly engineered or particularly reliable. You're still talking about an old car with expensive parts and maintenance needs. The wrong 996 might cost you a fortune, but even a decent old 911 will slowly bleed you over time. They're a labour of love. If I had it to do over again, I'd probably be fussier about choosing my 996 than I was, but it would still be my call for the money. Properly driven and maintained, complete service records and a small investment in upgrading a couple of things, and you've got a car that won't need much more from you than a Toyota would.

I have read in magazines more than once the 964 is the most expensive 911 to maintain. Get a 996 as outlined by BruceP, have the LN IMSB installed & enjoy.

You owe it to yourself to own a sorted 964.

964 - it is on my list a nice 3.6 light weighted track rat YUMMY!

I happen to own a 964 and a 996 and they are completely different animals. From a maintenance point of view I don't think you will see much difference, both are expensive to maintain. But remember, the 964, depending on the car you find is almost 20 years old so any number of parts will need replacing just from a fatigue point of view. While the 996 is ~10 years (depending on the car you find) old the extra 10 years makes a big difference on rubber and hose parts. My recommendation is, you need to make the decision based on what you are more comfortable with, find a good example of each and take a good test drive. Use the test drive to make your decision. Asking this question on either a 964 or 996 forum will only give you the answer on what that forum likes.

There's only one answer. You'll have to buy both. I considered an older car when I bought my 996. I looked at the 993 and the 964. For me, the 996 made more sense as a daily driver. It's larger, has more modern safety features, etc. If I had been buying the car as a toy, I may have gone another direction. Ultimately you need to decide what you want out of the car and how you'll use it. What's more important to you - the purity of an air-cooled engine, or the safety of PSM, EBD, ABS, etc.? As Artie said, they will all be expensive compared to a "normal"car.

If it's a dd, then 996 no question.

Quotes source post: 10020395

agree 100%

996 = More power. Modern styling and options. More comfortable. Better for daily use in any climate. 964 = Classic styling. Smaller. More of the raw feel. Air cooled. Good weekend/hobby car. No clear winner but more a question of which animal you prefer. I can tell you that I love my 996 and it impresses me every day.

I was in the same boat a few months ago and had read (and kept) everything I could about both lines over the last 20 or so years! Just last month (maybe 2 months now) there was a great article on the cover of one of the Brit magazines (Total911 I think) that asked your exact question. In general, the conclusion was that 964's are starting to appreciate and 996's in general still have a bit of depreciation left in them. For a low-maintenance (relatively) car the 996 is the way to go, for a "pure" experience the 964 is the one. The 996 is considered one of the most DIY-repairable 911's ever, the 964 had its own set of bug-a-boos, especially the first few years (albeit most will have been by now corrected), but there are plenty of 996's with LN upgrades or factory-replaced engines as well which should make them very dependable. I will say that if you are comparing all years of 964 to the first few years of 996, then you should find many more 996's at much lower prices than 964's especially if mileage is to be similar. After finally buying my '02 (and still being a bit conflicted at the time of purchase) I became quickly convinced than the 996 is the better choice (for me as a DD) but all other things being equal (which they are not) I would still love to see a 964 in my garage. You'll hear all kinds of crap about the 996's (mainly by people who do not and have not owned one) but if you buy one that is well-kept it should last you a long time. Mine now has 65000 miles on it, even after all the talk of cheap plastics and cost-cutting, I do not have a single rattle or loose piece of trim anywhere and that is with 18's which certainly give you and the car a good thump on frost heaves / expansion joints etc. The build quality on mine is great, much better than I was expecting and/or willing to put up with. I consider the 964 the prettier car, it's certainly rarer, but I believe the 996 is the better car. Most people would agree that you should buy the newest 911 that you can afford, both among model series and among years within a given series. If you've never had one before and/or don't have a specific need/burning desire (such as an RS America etc), then, yeah the newest Porsche is probably the best Porsche. You mention '99-02, be aware that '02 is the second-generation 996 and has quite a few differences (upgrades?) relative to the '99-'01's, most of which were significant enough (to me) to specifically made me stretch towards an '02. Good luck!

Driving(not just around the block) both examples as suggested would be my first suggestion. A reliable, well looked after 911 of either model would probably be a wash regarding upkeep, but they really are different even though they are both Porsche 911s. It should come down to, what is it that is important to you. Water vs. air/oil cooled, age of each, comforts or lack of, perceived prestige, size and body style etc.GL

Nice new avatar Steve. Unfortunately, I have a similar photo that I could use for my avatar...

Thanks Dennis, I was lucky and got a very decent State trooper. It could have been worse.

Here is a vote for the 993 ... The best of both worlds!

Quotes source post: 10020395

not at all valid I daily drive my 3.2 and would rather drive it than any 996 C2 although I might like a C4S (for the wide azz) a Turbo (for power) or a GT3 (for everything GT3!) I actually think for DD an older car makes more sense because it is more engaging and you have to concentrate more making the boring commute kind of fun there are days when it sucks but the 964 gets around that issue (hydraulic clutch) dont base your decision on anything other than what YOU want and you have no idea if the 964 will stir your emotions any more than a 996 unless you drive one of each - for a while - a good while as Steve suggests 996 is a great car and I am happy I had one - but a 964 is also a great car as is a 3.2 or 993 or 997 - they are all different - very very very different

Quotes source post: 10020552

+1 on plenty of time to figure if a 964 or 996 would fit the OP's requirements. IMO, a 996 Turbo or C4S would make an ideal DD. can't beat the looks for the $. Sorry for the threadjack. I think ALL RL members should make their avatar similar to Steve's(Barn996). I've had two opportunities myself; something to look forward to on the next one.

I have had both, and agree that either will make an acceptable DD ... if you are not driving long distances in heavy traffic. If that were the case the 996 is hands down the better choice. And who said they cost the same to maintain??? 964 requires Valve adjustments, and 12 spark-plugs and much more "Coolant" = Oil, to keep it running. My 964 - as with all "Air" cooled Porsche's, used a Quart or two between changes and that is normal. My 996 is full after 5000 miles - no leaks & no consumption @ 85,000 miles. Yes it has its "needs" to look after - but normal service is much less expensive. All things considered I agree... drive them - it is purely a personal choice, and you pay the price either way for your choice.

I think someone said 964 is higher maintenance cost and we would both agree on that I would even say a lot more because of the breakdown factor of older parts added to the regular stuff

Do you want AC in traffic or otherwise on hot days? Built in alarm? Of course nastalgia is nice to have when sweating your tail off with the engine overheating. Of course I could be wrong like usual

Something to consider in a daily driven car is the fact that a 996 is a lot safer. A generation 1 airbag is a frightening thing to be staring at. 996 has some nice benefits, like side impact airbags, better ABS, traction control, crash design, etc. Since you're asking for opinions, I've owned and raced both models and numerous iterations of each, and wholeheartedly prefer a 996 not only as a daily driver, but as a track car, too! And I do all the work myself on the cars and enjoy the 996 far more in that regard also. Progress...

garrett how about an earlier car vs the 964 on track?

I'll tell all of you this...No car has ever put a smile on my face the way a 964 has. This includes the 993 and an old 911 SC. Not sure what it was but it had the perfect balance between old and new. The sounds and smells were all perfect. If it weren't for the fact that I needed a daily driver and air conditioning that can handle the Carolina summers, I wouldn't be on the 996 board. For a fun car, 964 for me all the way. For a car that is capable as a daily driver or faster on the track, the 996.

OK, I've solved the OP difficulty in choosing...buy one of each.

This 996 owner of 9 years (DD, selected mods including LNE IMS upgrade, Fabspeed intake/exhaust, single mass flywheel, RUF wheels) reports this model has been very economical to keep, comfortable to commute it, and raucus when flogged. If I was going for an earlier model, it would be an 88 or 89 model with the G50 tranny and torsion bars. The 964 was an improvement, but if its improvements you are looking for, why stop with ones made in 1990? I think the early 911's simplicity and purity was perfected in 1989. After that, we are on the road to the modern era (riding on coils).

The 964 C4 was a real turkey with too much understeer built in. A C2 maybe but with the prices of the 996 being dirt cheap buy a 996 fix the IMS and then be 10-15 years ahead with Porsche technology.

I agree with FlatSix911; the 993 is the best of both worlds.

A 993 will cost you $6-7K more and another $3-4K to sort out in comparison to a 964 or 996. This is another 40 to 50% in addition to OP's original budget. Not really in the realm of this discussion.

^ A person who owns a 993 Turbo, shouldn't be talking about budgets Chao.

Sorry! You are right; the 993 belongs to another price range. I have owned a 964 and driven often some 996s and both are great cars to live with...., but in my opinion, if it is the first Porsche you own, an air-cooled is a experience you need to enjoy.

I had had the same "problem" before I bought my C4S. In the end, I decided the 996 was the better daily driver for me, but I WILL own a 964 at some point. I think the 996 is a better car , but the 964 is a better Porsche .

Quotes source post: 10026726

Remember that the 993 will be worth more in the long run ... last of the air/oil cooled generation

Quotes source post: 10023993

The 964 never flat spotted a tire thanks to ABS which was a big plus. A 964 cost WAY more in consumables mostly due to the 1000lbs weight difference and higher speed straight-line speed, and far greater complexity regarding engine maintenance, rebuilds, and repairs. The 996 has been the cheapest car to maintain, as a driver or a track car, compared to a 964. And my reference comes from when the 964's were younger cars... The 92's are 20 years old now! Yikes!