Help Plz - Starter Not Engaging?

Hey guys, I have a problem hoping you can give me a hand with. I've been driving in stop and go traffic most of the day with the AC blowing 100%. Coolant temp is within normal range. It's 103F outside today. I run into a store to grab some things, maybe 15 minutes. Go to start the car, and the starter isn't engaging. I turned off the AC, stereo, all other 12V accessories. I assure the clutch is depressed fully, and try again. Nothing. Ignition switch was replaced 6 months ago. It feels fine. Could the starter solenoid be bad? Or starter relay? Any ideas on what I should try? I'm going to let the car cool down (well, as much as it can on a day like this) for a few hours and give it another attempt. I'll read the DME w/ Durametric then too.

Nothing as Crickets? Clutch switch may have failed with all of the action from traffic driving. Or spins slowly but won't engage flywheel? What is the battery voltage? You might have run battery down with all of the accessories running in stop & go traffic all day.

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My Boxster has done this in the past and did it once or twice after the igntion switch assembly replaced. My guess is the clutch interlock switch is bad, even though in my case I replaced this before having the switch replaced. Or the bracket that holds the clutch interlock switch is a bit out of position and the clutch depressed doesn't quite every time allow for the clutch interlock switch to close quite enough. Try depressing and releasing the clutch several times in rapid sucession or reaching down and working the clutch interlock switch lever to free up what might be a sticky clutch interlock switch. If (when) the engine starts make your first priority to get a new clutch interlock switch. Sincerely, Macster.

If it's not the ignition switch, read here about a hot car and the battery cable going bad between starter, generator, and positive terminal in the engine bay. http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...ltage-problems I wonder if a bad (when hot) flywheel speed sensor or cam position sensor would cause this problem too (read about a few of those).

I have replaced my clutch interlock switch twice, but problem shows up in freezing temps. For me, slamming the clutch pedal to the floor as hard as I could allowed the switch to make contact and start the car. Dealer says this is a known issue and considered as normal "wear". Hope it as simple as this for you.

Thanks for all of the advice. I'll inspect the clutch interlock switch tomorrow. Tried to jump start the car tonight without success. Ended up towing it back home with a 15' tow rope and my pickup truck. I knew I bought a tow hook a few years ago for a reason!

Update on today's progress (still no starter movement): 1. Charged the battery and verified voltage. 2. Verified the black plunger from the red clutch pedal switch (from research is related to cruise control) is full extended (when the clutch is full depressed). 3. From the other clutch switch, removed two ends jumpered them with a piece of wire. (Read a thread somewhere a guy just soldered them together so a fully depressed clutch was no longer necessary.) 4. Thinking the RFID chip in the key fob was bad, used the valet key. 5. From relay support #2 (on my cab, underneath the cover), swapped the relays from positions 7 and 8. Tomorrow I'll try to get to the starter solenoid and measure voltage. Also will check out the various cables as you suggested, logray. Read a lot about how key fobs, immobilizers, DMEs... I won't go there yet.

Any DTCs thrown and/or CELs? Tried bump starting it yet? :-)

have you checked fuses?

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What "other clutch switch"? A spare? There is only one in the car right? Did you jumper the leads in the car?

I read once where someones floor mat was not allowing them to push the clutch pedal all the way down.

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Durametric shows only open circuit stage 2 fan. Good idea on rolling start, pop-clutch. If it runs, can I rule out a problem with the immobilizer? All fuses good. Sorry, I wasn't clear on that. To rule out a problem with part 16, I took the leads off of the switch and stuck a wire in between them. Part 17 is for cruise control. It is red in color.

Bump start would rule out a lot of stuff. More than just the immo. Just poke it down a hill about 5 mph pop the clutch out while in 2nd with the ignition already on. Be ready to press the clutch pedal in once it fires or if it doesn't. Does the car start fine when it is cold? What is the condition of the battery?

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The switch you worked with is the cruise control disable switch which disables cruise when you depress the clutch. The switch that prevents the engine from cranking if the clutch is not fully depressed iis a different switch and is located somewhere behind the clutch linkage but not on the floor. You have to look up high. I have no pics but it is a hard switch to see and get to. I have to almost stand on my head to get at out. Techs get to it by raising the car on a lift to bring the switch at a more easily accessible height. Sincerely, Macster.

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The two wires shown in the post above are from switch #16. That IS the clutch switch, isn't it? (It just so happens the red switch (cruise control) is in the photo.)

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Yes, #16 is the clutch interlock switch. Sincerely, Macster.

That's a lot of wire to simply short something. I hope the electrical contacts/wiring is ok? It is very important when one starts fussing around with the wiring/switches that he is 100% sure what he has done is right or it can lead to false conclusions and send one off on a wild goose chase. I would not attempt a bump start. The engine should crank using the starter and fire right up. If it doesn't a bump start attempt is just a chance to do damage to the car. The RFID pill might be bad but in all keys? The car immobilizer then might be bad that is when you insert the key in the ignition switch this does not result in the immobilizer transmitting an RF signal which the RFID pill in the key head receives and uses this as a trigger to respond with its ID via an return RF signal. Not sure how to eliminate this possibility without some fancy equipment, PST2 or PIWIS or something a bit more electronically exotic (RF scope). Remember if the ignition switch is suspect this may result in the immobilizer not receiving any signal to emit the RFID query transmission so you must be absolutely certain the ignition switch is ok. When I watched a tech diagnose my Boxster's similar behavior he inserted the key, wiggled it while he turned it to on/start and mashed the clutch pedal down all the way hard to the floor. Of course the car never manifested the symptom through a few minutes of this and maybe a dozen starts. Everyone a picture perfect start. Sincerely, Macster.

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Good point. I pulled the switch from my father's 1999 996, refastened the ends, but still no luck. Does the valet key have such RFID pill too? I hope not... but will leave that as a last resort. Agreed. Definitely worth the $8 to change it out again. Thanks again for your feedback. That goes for the rest of you too! Okay... dumb question perhaps... how do I get to the starter solenoid? Remove throttle body?

"Okay... dumb question perhaps... how do I get to the starter solenoid? Remove throttle body? " And the manifold. Alittle easier of you unbolt the rear motor mounts and drop the engine slightly. BTDT.

Not sure I saw it asked, but when you put in the key and turn it on, do you get lights? Do the gauges fire up? If so, it may just be a bad starter...have you checked the Voltage there?

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If a key will start the engine it has to have a RFID pill in it. IIRC -- I'm pretty sure I tested this but it has been a long time ago -- the valet keys for my cars start the engines. Of course the heads of the keys are not separateable but since there is no battery to wear out this is not a problem. The RFID receives the energy it needs from the immobilizer's RF signal. A very bit of clever engineering that. I did a bit of testing an dthe RFID pill does not work even if I hold it in the palm of a hand and turn the key with the other hand. I was thinking that a bad key with a non-functioning RFID might be 'masked' by the fact I carry a spare key (and the valet key too on a key chain in my jacket's inner pocket) but I removed the jacket and there was just the one key and its RFID pill in my hand and the engine would not crank which is the behavior that is expected if the RFID pill doesn't get is ID to the immobilizer because it doesn't receive sufficient energy from the immobilizer's RF transmission. It just occurred to me that perhaps the cavity that holds the RFID pill might be designed to focus the RF energy too. Sincerely, Macster.

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Your experiments are much appreciated! I spoke with a Porsche service mgr. in KC. In all his years, he's never experienced a key with a failed RFID chip. Yes, lights can be turned on, gauges are lighting up. Yes. See photo below. Good constant voltage on the left lead. Key is NOT in ignition. When an assistant turns the key to attempt start: same voltage to left lead, zero voltage to right lead, and zero to top lead. Thanks. Wasn't too bad. Didn't drop engine any. Thanks everyone! I love a good challenge! Tomorrow I'm changing out the ignition switch. If that doesn't solve the issue, I'll see if a guru in town would like to make a house call.

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You're right! I replaced the ignition switch and the starter turned on. From now on, I'm going to carry a replacement in the car. As I mentioned in my first post, the old switch was only about 6 months old.

Good job...!

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Did the ignition switch feel funny when you replaced it again or just like when you put it in? I replaced mine about three month ago and I have replaced the starter, the clutch switch and the battery. No luck so far.

I replaced the ignition switch I installed about three Month ago and all is well. Even the airbag light is gone.

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It didn't feel any different than when I put it in six months prior. I read somewhere that extra wait on the keychain can cause a premature failure of the switch. I'm living with that advice (trouble-free since my last post), and I believe the extra weight was to blame. Just in case, I keep a small screwdriver and a spare switch in the car. Glad yours was just the switch too!