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YOUR RESEARCHWhy would I buy a 996 model? Opinions wanted!
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bargain
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I bought my 996 because it was the bargain that it still it.
Leading evidence: 'bargain' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'bargain' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean 993' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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He was able to get me a complete service history (as it was always serviced at the original dealership) which indicated that while under warranty the engine had the Rear main seal replaced 5 times.
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i just ran into a fellow that has a 76, a 80's something and a 2007
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the 993 is probably the best aircooled design for both drivability and comfort - they have CEL issues which can be somewhat troublesome but they are a beautiful design however 2x the 996 money.
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He was able to get me a complete service history (as it was always serviced at the original dealership) which indicated that while under warranty the engine had the Rear main seal replaced 5 times.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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the 993 is probably the best aircooled design for both drivability and comfort - they have CEL issues which can be somewhat troublesome but they are a beautiful design however 2x the 996 money.
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Hello from a new guy!
I've been lurking around for a while, searching for info specific to the 911, getting a feel for the forum and trying to learn as much as I can before asking obvious newbie questions.
Currently, I'm looking at two 996 variants and plan on driving them as soon as I get a chance. One is a 2001 with 35,000 miles and the other is a 2004 with 55,000 miles. And both cars look fantastic from the photos online. The prices are nice, too, with both cars starting at $31k hard earned American fun bucks.
It seems there's a part of the Porsche community that dislikes the 996. Why is that? Is it a truly a bad version of the 911? Are Porsche enthusiasts curmudgeons pining for the air-cooled days? Is it something else?
A 996 could be my first Porsche and I'd love to get some insight about the car from people who know. All opinions are welcome. Fire away!
PREFERENCE
, some of the old school purists prefer the air-cooled version. Actually NOT surprising everytime any car maker releases a newer model.
No, it is not. IMHO, Porsche improved on the 993 when it came out with the 996
YES, some are (see above answer to your 1st question)
All water cooled Porsche 911s are poor imitations of the REAL THING, a 356, or if you are a little younger, a short wheel base 911 or a bit younger yet long wheel base long hood 911s or ...etc.
For the money the 996 is a tremendous value. Smooth running, comfortable GT cars that handle incredibly well and can be used as everyday drivers and/or track weapons. They are in many cases easier to work on then their air-cooled ancestors.
The 996 has potential problem areas, as have all 911 since 1964.
The M type engines (it seems earlier ones mostly) are prone to Rear Main Shaft Seal (RMS) leaks. The newest replacement seals seem to have solved those problems for most cars.
They also have a poorly designed Intermediate Shaft Bearing (IMS or IMSB) that can cause severe engine damage if they fail. (Similar to the air-cooled engines pre 1984 oil fed chain tensioners). There are more robust bearings from the aftermarket that can be installed to address that problem.
That said I would go for the 2004. It has the 3.6 engine, improved vario-cam Plus system and a glove box! Plus they have a couple more years of development.
I bought my 996 because it was the bargain that it still it. 3 years later, I still love it. Not had any problem with it. Drove 1800 miles in 3 days from texas to florida, not a problem. Did a couple of track days, not a drop of oil required to top off. The car is always a blast to drive each time...
BARGAIN !
some say the 993 are more fun, but go try one, I think they just feel old unless you find a pristine one, which will cost you $50-60k ! I drove one it was a blast but at that price, no way. The 996 is just as much fun and much better daily driver.
996 is a bargain, enjoy the saving thanks to all bad rap on the internet. If you are still scared, buy an extended warranty with all that money you saved from buying a 993 !
"I'm looking at two 996 variants and plan on driving them as soon as I get a chance. One is a 2001 with 35,000 miles and the other is a
2004
with 55,000 miles."
He is looking at 2001 and 2004.
My mistake....misread/misunderstood your post. On that note, I agree 100%
the 04 also gets my vote (for the 3.6, glove box and a few other upgrades introduced in 02)
For your viewing pleasure, here's the 2004 model:
http://www.mercedesoflittleton.com/u...8c8a31b3ad.htm
The paint color looks fantastic in person. I looked over the car and found only 1 tiny little ding on the lip of the passenger side rear fender. Only someone as OCD as me would notice it.
And...here's a link to the 2001 model:
http://www.porscheofcoloradosprings....93bfc88ce8.htm
Haven't seen it in person yet but I may take some time this week to give it a look.
I also encourage you to go with an '02-'04. These are MkII's with some good improvements. The HP didn't increase significantly for years and the IMS bearing is easy to replace. Excellent value for the money.
From the Supplement to Excellence, Porsche Buyer's Guide 2012:
After 25 years of updated models, the new 996 was the first all-new 911 since 1964. And what a new 911 is was: larger yet lighter than its predecessor, the 996 was also more powerful, more refined, more aerodynamic, and easier to drive than the 993. As usual, old-school Porsche purists found things to grumble about - most often the introduction of water cooling for the flat-six engine - but the 996's driving experience won over the majority of enthusiasts.
The 996 remains a very rewarding car to drive, and they can be purchased for less than $20,000. Depreciation, a weak economy, numerous cars for sale at any given time, and reliability concerns have taken a serious toll on values. These concerns about reliability are valid, but aren't the whole story. The possibility of expensive repairs is present in any used 911, and for us the potential risk is outweighed by the pleasure and practicality the 996 offers.
The Sport Design wheels on the '01 are difficult to clean - may God bless the guy who invented the five-spoke wheel!
Silver also trumps black in my book....and, I agree with most of the sentiments expressed above about the desireability of the newer car.
Good luck!
Ok, it seems the 2004 features enough improvements/enhancements to make it the better choice over the 2001. That's good info, the kind of stuff I was hoping to find here. Thank you all!
And no, I'm not going to drive it in the snow.
That is, unless my current car (aka "Pickels") goes belly up. The Porsche is a second car, to be driven a lot during the summer and fall, with diminished miles as the weather dictates.
Maintenance wise, what is coming up for a 996 with 55k miles on it? Probably something big around the 60k mark, I suspect. BTW: if there's an existing thread that covers maintenance, please point me to it.
Personally, I was in the market for a fun car but didn't want to spend big money on clean 993. I drove one and as an earlier post mentioned, it felt "old". Mine came with a considerable amount of addons however, it also felt more contemporary (as I like to use my car more often than just sunny weekends). I haven't (..knocking on wood) had any major problems with it just keeping up on routine maintenance. It ended up costing me the price of a cheap late model mid size so I think I did alright..
I bought a 996 becasuse I could not afford a 997 GT3 or 991, LOL
P.S. the 996.2 (i.e. 2002 - 2004) have enough little upgrades to make them the better choice and why I picked up a 2004 996.2 vs a 2005 997.1 variant.
Take your time and drive as many 996's as you can. There are so many varieties of options, especially interiors ( full leather, sport seats, etc). Throw in mods and no two cars are alike. There are plenty on the market so don't rush. It is very easy to get emotional about this purchase. I agree the MKII has enough refinement to make a difference. Always get a good PPI and don't be afraid to pass if it doesn't feel right. Just like with your first wife, when you know...you know! Good luck!
I recently bought a 2002 with 63000 miles, very similar to the 2004 you are looking at. I bought it from a private owner who had it under warranty until last year. He was able to get me a complete service history (as it was always serviced at the original dealership) which indicated that while under warranty the engine had the Rear main seal replaced 5 times. The last time at 58000 miles the mechanic looked further and found that the oil leak was actually caused by an out-of-round intermediate shaft bore (by .07mm.) This caused Porsche to pony up for a new engine at that mileage. I bought the car with 63000 miles so have a car with a full service history and a 5000-mile factory engine (Well, almost 8000 mile engine as of today!)
My point is that it is important to have a service history, if that can't be gotten through the Mercedes dealer that is selling this '04, then see if you can figure out where the car came from and if possible talk to that dealer. You want to find out as much as possible about what kind of service and issues the car has had. I'm sure it looks great on the lot, but more important are the oily bits underneath and the history thereof. In my case if the mechanic hadn't finally looked further there would have continued to be a history of leakage and very possibly an engine swap needed AFTER the warranty ran out. If I had bought the car in that case it could have been a really bad day.
And yes, I agree, the Mk2 has enough significant improvements including the exhaust noise to make it worth quite a bit more in my book. (Not that the Mk1's are bad, just that I can justify to myself at least a relatively large value jump from '01 to '02...)
Plus I agree take your time and make sure you get as much service info as possible and if you get anything that sets off a feeling then just keep looking.
If you want to spend just a little more you could purchase an '04 40th Anniversary car and get a bunch of extras along with the X51 motor. There is a pretty significant difference in what you get in my opinion. I know of 2 on here that are for sale. ryangambrill in Cleveland, OH and mine in Atlanta. You may be able to find one closer to you.
IMHO thats a no brainer. Although a nice clean looking low milage car the 2001 is way over priced for what it is. Top price should be $25000. So 7 grand over is a bit much.
The 2004 would be my choice for a few good reasons. Obviously after an independant full PPI.. and price battle hehe. PLus I would relish the thought of doing it's 60000 full service as my DIY project for the winter months. Nuff said.
I specifically looked for a 996 when I bought my car. I wanted a cab with Tiptronic and an aero kit and a hard top, wanted AC and heat that "worked" and a good bargin. I specifically looked for a 2002-2004 as I wanted a glass rear window, the upgraded headlights and the cup holders. 996s were the only Porsches that fit my wish list and my budget. I bought the car without a PPI but budgeted some extra work (new tires, IMSB, RMS, etc). Love the car and have had a great time wtih it.
My car had only been driven 3K mikes in the 6 years before I got it, I have put 7K on it in less than a year.
Ted
For me, the PPI seems to be the key for deciding which car to get. I wonder how a non-Porsche dealership feels about the PPI and how accommodating they will be?
Kloft, regarding your question about PPI's, make sure you are taking your car to a Porsche specialist that is familiar with the 996. I live in Florida and bought my 996 out of AZ. When I had identified the car, and needed a PPI, I posted a thread on RL asking where is a good place for a PPI in Phoenix...within a few hours I had a number of great recommendations. You should do the same if you are not buying it locally and do not have a good indy/dealer. Finally, I would not have the PPI done where the car was serviced regularly, as this is the time you want a second set of eyes to go over what has or hasn't been done previously. Obviously make sure to get as much service documentation as possible from the previous owner when buying your car.
Cheers,
DS
Agreed. All the hyped anxiety, plus the sentimental discount for it being a water cooled car, is already long baked into resale values. Objectively, it's a ridiculous bargain for what you get, now.
i'd have to agree - also i really never thought this would be a topic i would be discussing but i think age is a factor when it comes to the decision.
i've owned lots of 356's, lots of aircooled 911's and a 996 - i will never sell my 59 356 super sunroof coupe however long trips are somewhat challenging during the summer months because of overheating especially in the siskyous heading down to california from seattle. i've done the trip several times in my 356 and i've learned to drive at night thru the mountains. also when driving in hot calif during the day, staying in the shadow of tractor trailers helps keep the engine temp down
the aircooled 911's are the true porsche - if you've never smelled the oil leaks after a long hard drive you haven't lived. they have soul and something about the sound of the aircooled engine is just something you can't compare. they are driving cars - it is more like they drive you compared to the later water cooled 996 cars which feel more like you are driving them.
the 993 is probably the best aircooled design for both drivability and comfort - they have CEL issues which can be somewhat troublesome but they are a beautiful design however 2x the 996 money.
for me it has come down to creature comforts - now in my mid 50's i don't like to bend as much because of sports injuries creeping up and the 996 has a great comfortable ride - it is also surprisingly nimble and has a great clutch/tranny feel heating system and i just really like the wide *** look on them - not crazy about the headlight design but i don't have the money for an 06 model unless of course i plan to live in a trailer behind our house when my wife got done with me.
I am in the same boat as you are and I looked at all of the cars you have on here plus a couple of more. In the end, I put a deposit on this one and should be doing the deal today:
http://ucar.folrefs.com/cars/CO/Litt.../38354901.html
Did you happen to look at this car at all?
Mine was 16K 2 years ago.. I do think I stole it...
Ya know more on this topic.. the 996 is again a lot like the 928. Its the first gen 911 that porsche built from the ground up, a total re-design. Its the first true PORSCHE 911. The rest had VW DNA somewhere in there. ( the 928 was actually the fist ground up car Porsche designed although it was beat to the production line by the 924.)
i just passed on a 99 silver/grey w/88K miles - i grinded him down to $14K but it needed tires/pvc valve and spark plug tubes and had some paintwork at the nose.- since seal grey/black is my 1st choice i decided to wait it out for an 80K miles example.
i can get you the info on the car if you want to pursue it. i have the PPI that was performed yesterday at swiss motors - i'll only charge you $75 for it
Probably be changing those snow tires out pretty quickly. Make sure to twist sellers arm for summer tires. Cost anywhere from ~ $600 (Sumitomo) to $1500 (Michelin)
Yeah, the snow tires seemed a bit silly and a whole lot spendy! I don't need them, don't want them, and if this happens to be the car I want to buy, I'll work a deal to have something more appropriate installed.
I traded in a couple of cars (I am reducing the fleet to two cars) and between the final price of the 911 and what they gave for the trades, I thought that it was fair all the way around. The car seems top notch although this is my first day of driving it so take that with a grain of salt.
I agree with groov but want to add to really find an excellent one for this price you are going to have to invest some time. You may get lucky and find one in a month but 6 months or a year of hard looking is not unusual. I looked for 1 1/2 years before finding mine which I paid $22.5K. The good news is I got to drive a many different cars and learned a lot about the 996 before buying mine. I really enjoy the search and look forward to doing it again in about a year or two. I do love this car and would highly recommend a well sorted 996. I dont care what anybody says these are great sports cars and big time head turners. Most non-knowers think my car is less than 4 years old. Good luck with yours and post some pictures soon.
Ok...just ran across this one:
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...nal&listType=3
Kinda high mileage for my tastes (68k) but I'm new to Porsches. Any other opinions on this car?
BTW: if there's a better thread/forum for this question, let me know. I don't want to ruffle any feathers by posting in the wrong place.
I got a good deal - I did not pay sticker and got a good deal on the trades. I'm happy with it. I've been doing this long enough to know that you can get a Turbo S for $10k and someone on the internet will say how they know someone who paid half that and got the same car plus a hand job from Charlize Theron. I did my research and knew where the deal should come in. It worked out.
The black one is nice but I dont think you want the auto Craptronic transmission. Too many problems and costs a fortune to repair. The 6 speed manual just keeps on running (as long as you change the fluid).
That's exactly where I intend to be come purchase time, and hopefully a good deal will come my way when I'm ready to buy.
Kinda like the one fd911 got.
Nice car.
i just ran into a fellow that has a 76, a 80's something and a 2007
he said his 80's something is a rocket, feels like a race car, his 07 is refined and easy to drive, I don't think you could pry any of them from him or his wife they way they talked about them.
me, I'm just excited to have bought our first Carrera and it is an 2000 Cabriolet, not one mark of an oil leak anywhere under it with 60k miles.
it is a very nice car and the little I have been able to drive it (I put a couple hundred miles on it since Saturday night then the wife took the keys, it is F U N!
+100. KRAZY, got some facts/stats to back up your comment? Curious because I happen to have a "craptronic"
which has had (knock on wood) ZERO issues: 02 C2 cab with 70K miles, I'm the 3rd owner).
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