New (to me) 996, C4S - Please - take it easy on me!!!

Please - take it easy on me!!! I may have done a not-so-smart-thing and broken THE cardinal rule.... I bought a used, 2003 C4S 996 coupe - SIGHT UN-SEEN- with no test drive! I trusted my dealer and 3rd party PPI person/company! I have previously owned several other 996 Porsches, and I am keenly aware of the common faults seen in our 996's. But, I think, without accusing my dealer or the PPI I had done, that I may be in a small amount of trouble that was not identified to me..... Here's whats going on: 1) Car delivered to me and looks great! Mostly everything is what I expected visually. 2) Start up though, produces a big and quick "thunk" - and then its running. 3) A quick "goose" of the throttle (after warmed) produces a .5 to 1 second lag and then a near stall and lots of clunking - then suddenly, a recovery to idle. 4) All starts from 1st gear - Stop signs, lights, driveway, every thing - requires me to rev the car up to 2k+ and a slow release of the clutch to get the car going without a thud, clunk and so on... (This part is concerning to me because I cannot make a quick move in traffic. I thinks its dangerous!) 5) Otherwise, regular driving and conscientious shifting whilst in motion are OK. 6) Maybe not important - but oil pressure is pegged at 5 mostly always and then is very bouncy at idle (between 3.5 and 5) ??? I have read so many articles here, my gut is telling me it may only be Engine Mounts and/or Transmission mounts causing the Clunk. Calls to the various Porsche dealers where the car was from showed no service records of concern (no record of RMS replacement nor IMS issue). Does anyone have a thought on my issue(s). I REALLY want to give my dealer and PPI person the benefit of the doubt that they are capable and are conveying the right information. I feel slightly duped at the moment. I am hoping its because I forgot how to drive my 996, but I think there is a real problem. But - maybe I should have expected problems and was caught up by the pure beauty and emotion of the buy.... Important notes: About 50k current miles. Next, I bought this car with an after-market Super-Charger by TPC. It also has very expensive coil-over Bilsteins on it. With these aftermarket upgrades, I have assumed this car was driven hard if not even tracked. I also am NOT impressed with the install of the SC. That I will rant-on in some other post. Thank you for any/all help!!!! Greg

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Have you contacted them about this? What is their reaction? This sounds very shady to me. No way the symptoms you are describing could be considered normal to anyone ever. My advise would be to stop driving the car until you get someone to look at it.

Appears like the engine simply needs a good tuning up from a Porsche dealer. It could be as simple as that. Your clutch aint gonna last long having to drive it as you describe.

Wow, there's alot to be said here but I can't believe they would actually sell you this car knowing it had such an obvious problem, & thinking well maybe he won't notice it! jmo

Could you have someone else watch / listen to the engine while you start-up, rev, etc. and see if its something obvious if your really believe it is a bad mount? I almost made the same mistake making a deal with a Porsche dealer over the phone / internet without looking at the car in person and driving it. Yes, they wil LIE, LIE, and LIE some more. Some of the PPI's are total BS when done by the dealership mechanic but you wrote you used a 3rd party PPI. I hope you didnt use the one recommended on Ebay because that ones a joke. Why on Earth havent you called the dealer and PPI company?

I dont think you are in that deep. You just got the car. Take it to a local wrech and have them take a look. I bought mine the same way. But from a private party and he lied out his *** or he was just REALLY stupid when it comes to any kind of car. Just stick with it. Have it fixed.. I bet the repair will be under 1000.00... And if my "under 1000.00" makes you cring... get rid of the car. You have no business owning a P car. maybe a Camaro <--- joke from other thread... Relax... wasnt a red neck dig at you I think you have a vacc leak, AOS hose leak or Im going to say it on this one... a bad MAF. Do you have any CEL codes?

Dude.. you are in Pittsburgh... Bring that bad boy up here.. We can fix it. Im Erie, PA

My knowledge of consumer law is very thin. While it is buyer beware things that a seller should know about the car's condition should be divulged. I mean to make a point the seller can't say the car is fine and then the delivery truck driver shows up and shoves a twisted hulk of a car off the bed of the truck and when you call the seller he denies all knowledge of the car's condition. Your best bet at least initially is to see if you can get some goodwill from the seller and the PPI. But you need leverage. Consult with someone in the consumer fraud division of your area, the county or even at the state level, or the in area of the seller/PPI. See what if any consumer fraud law basis you have to approach the seller/PPI with these issues that should have clearly been noted by anyone who drove the car. The seller I'm pretty sure checked the car out before buying it, taking it as a trade in, and the PPI should have found these issues as well. So they can't claim no no knowledge of these issues. See what you can do, how far you can get with this goodwill attempt before you take on fixing the car yourself. Sincerely, Macster.

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THIS!, What more could you ask for, a fellow Rennlister asking you to bring it over & let him take a look at it for you! jmo

Guys - thanks so far! My gut is telling me its the motor mounts. Further info; upon idle, I notice the sound of the engine is just not right. I�m trying to listen unbiased, with an open mind that it may NOT be the motor mounts. However, it almost sounds like metal-on-metal. Once I accelerate the sound goes away and I hear the engine as normal along with the 'sweet' whine of the Super Charger (SC). I cant really see the motor mounts because the SC obstructs the view on both sides. With a tiny mirror and really bright light, it looks like the mounts may be deformed. Next, the code reader shows no codes. The check engine light is not on. Lastly, check out the attached snippet from the report the PPI gave me. They do mention they hear rattling upon start up but describe it as the exhaust hitting something. Dealer never personally or in writing mentioned this to me. Any other thoughts are appreciated. Oh - and if I do need motor mounts, it appears that with the SC installed, there is no room for them. Are their after-market mounts that are smaller or lower in height than the regular hydraulic ones? Shark - THANKS for your offer - I may try the mounts based on the opinions here and if that doesnt work - I may head up to see you, unless you have an early snow!! Thanks all! Greg

The reports saying a slight rattle on start up is common on some cars and not always a problem. Call the dealer first and tell him it came off the truck with the problem. I would not drive it until you talk to the dealer. I would think at least some respectable dealers will make good on fixing it since it obviously was like this before it arrived at your house. They may pay for a local indy to take care of it. If the dealer is a dead beat and will not do anything then call the PPI mechanic 2nd and Shark attack 3rd.

Appreciate the advice. They (Dealer and PPI) are in your neck of the woods (Houston Actually). I drove the car obviously until I became suspicious that there was an issue. I have not driven it since I consulted with you all. Next steps are to email (so its in writing). Thanks!!

Oh also - note the little disclaimer the PPI has in my snippet - seems to absolve them of any found issues afterwards.

You didn't get the car from Victory Motorcars did you?

No. I bought this car from a dealer in Houston, TX.

Ah ok. Victory is in Houston and although I had a fantastic experience with the guy that runs it, he has a bad rep online.

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I was going to ask you about what the Bill of Sale/PPI stipulated. Best of luck.

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In PA unless it has a bad frame or block...Its your car now. no turning back Oh my... I missed this. Um this is out of my ability. Motor mounts... Maybe but I doubt it. Bad MM can retard spark But I dont think they would give you this condition. With an SC hung on it.. I really have no idea. But I would like to see a picture of that engine bay. This could be anything from Not enough fuel delivery and/ or ECU issues compensating for the SC. You really have your hands full. People think you can just hang a SC on a car... No... to do it right you should have head work done, fuel system delivery re-done and custom ECU program. I hate to say this.. Start by taking that SC off. You are not talking about a chebby V8 here that was built like a tank... The thing is already a tightly wound rubber band... 300HP/ 300Ft Tq out of 3.4L NA.... the rubber band is already wound very tight... its why when the rubberband breaks..... **** flys apart. And not knowing if ti ever ran right with the SC we really need to start over. get it running right the way it was meant to be ran. Then re-install the SC if you want too.

that CEL has to be on..... Does it work????? turn the key with out starting the car.. Does it light up?

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+1 They may have removed the bulb. Also note that if they disconnected the battery to clear the CEL, it can take 40-50 miles of driving for the DME to sort out what's what and throw a code. Unless, of course, it is a catastrophic failure, ie blinking CEL, in which case it will throw the code immediately. You need someone to look at the car who is an expert on 996s asap. Hopefully, it is something simple, like the MAF comment. The more information the folks here have, the more they can help. Keep the info coming.

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Yes sir - the CEL Light does illuminate on the key turn. See attached photo and also see that the code reader is not pulling any codes.

Do you mind me asking who did the PPI and what dealership? I had a terrible experience with EXPO a few years ago.

Aftermarket supercharger? Yikes.

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I will PM you - my experience may not be indicative of others and I dont want to accuse anyone until I get a mechanic to look at it.

More info - I spoke to my trusty local mechanic and I'm set to get the car up to him tomorrow. He mentioned to me that based on my description, it could be the dual mass flywheel. (what will that cost me!? - yikes!) or a simple as an air leak on the super charger. I hope its the latter! If flywheel - what thoughts do you have on an aftermarket vs OEM and any other work I should have done while its apart?

dual mass is i think 600-1000 for just the fly wheel I cant see that being it either. But he is going to have at least 10 hours labor invested in finding out. and if you are going to do that.. May I suggest a clutch and AOS. rear main seal and a L and E bearing

and where is my pix of the engine bay?

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Here is one pic. I can post a couple others tomorrow. I am really hoping a lot of the noise I am hearing is parts of the SC that may be rubbing or touching other metal things in the engine bay. I have a Indy Porsche mechanic who knows the cars very well. Also - he mentioned he could determine a flywheel issue upon a test drive. I personally don't think its a flywheel either because when in motion, shifting and moderate to hard driving isn't producing anything out of the ordinary. Thanks for everyone's help!!

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One other note: There was a group buy on here some time ago for the SC: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...group-buy.html Has a decent write up and pictures.

Hello all - I thought I might update this thread to share what I had done over the last several weeks. If you re-read the OP, you can see the issues I was facing and I would say most are resolved....but not my main complaint. 1) Smoke Test found three vacuum leaks Evaporative Line fitting on Intake Manifold Re-seal the additional Fuel Injector (for Super Charger) Re-seal Intercooler to Intake Manifold 2)MAF Replacement Voltage was showing low and volume of air was not as expected at idle. The MAF replacement alone yielded most of the improvement to the idle and startup. The inital "clunk" on start up is much less and almost gone. Though I will say it didnt resolve all the issues I see on starts from 1st gear. More on that later, below. 3) Pre-emptive replacement of IMS bearing with LN IMS retrofit. I have the old bearing and it looks solid still. I would say there is a little bit of play in the bearing but only after it was uninstalled. My Indy said there was definitely a decent oil leak coming directly from the bearing (housing) so perhaps this was a good call on the replacement. 4) New RMS seal, of course. 5) New Clutch (kit) was only 20% left on clutch so we replaced this too. What a difference! The clutch is very easy to push down now! Grabs much better now. 6) Transmission mount was shot - replaced 7) The rear Flex Disc was dry-rotted and cracked. Replaced. 8) New AOS I have the old one. Seems to be fine but again, peace of mind on a preemptive fix. 9) Semi-Solid Engine Mounts Make: RSS Tarmac 10) New Plugs (NGK BKR Platinum) 11) Fresh oil and filter (Indy recommended 5w 40 Castrol Syntec) 12) PA State safety and emissions inspection So - Now I have peace of mind about some of the major issues that are possible with my P-Car. Most of the clunks are gone due to the 10+ hours of additional labor to lower the engine and re-manipulate the Super Charger pipes and stuff so they are not rubbing on the interior engine bay. However, my main complaint is still there - though seems to be improved, not resolved: That is, my start from first gear - I am just not confident I am not going to stall the car. I feel I need to rev to 2500RPM to ensure I can get it moving. I have been driving a clutched car for 25+ years so I don't think its me. There seems to be a lag when I press on the gas enough that something just doesn't seem right still. Any other thoughts? I dont expect a perfect car by any stretch but after this monster bill, I would have thought my #1 complaint could be resolved. Please chime in. Thanks!

I was going to ask you about the trans mount because mine had the same issue found during PPI. I see you got all fixed up so nevermind. Dealer agreed to fix problems found by my PPI so I guess I came out ahead. If you dealt with Porsche of North Houston, Im not surprised. Their in house PPI is crap. I almost made a huge mistake buying from them.

I can only wish my dealer will pony up here. We'll see what they say. They are in your neck of the woods. Im compiling the invoice for the things that should have been fixed prior to my purchase. Not the big things mind you, like the IMS, clutch AOS etc, but the other worn items that were blatantly obvious. Anyone feel like my lag in 1st gear could be a coil pack(s)?

Had trouble with the performance of my Porsche with newly installed 200c Cats. There is a considerable hesitation accelerating quickly from a stop or at low rpm. This happens consistently when aggressively pressing the acceleration peddle. I ended up returning the Cats. 2002 996

I would be interested in knowing where the car was purchased, I am in the Houston area.....

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Dude, I feel for your struggles and expenses here... but you bought a used car. And a modified used high performance car at that. And you had it inspected by a separate shop prior to the purchase. I just don't see how the dealership is liable for any of your costs. Ethically they probably should step up as they seem to have missed/ignored some problems. But legally you are on your own here as regards the dealer. Now, the shop that did the PPI is another thing. Did they actually miss a leaking rear main seal, a bad transmission mount, and a bad MAF? If so, that is where I would go. And with the money you just spent and depending on the small claims court process in TX, I would seriously investigate/consider legal action depending on their initial response.

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This - I wouldn't expect a dealership to spot things like vacuum leaks, clutch down to 20% etc. If it's not obvious when you throw the car on the lift, it won't get picked up on a PPI.

So I'm assuming you paid a shop to do some of the work you described? What did they say about it? Seems like that would have been the best time to get a few folks to drive it and tell you if they think something is off or if it is just you.

I think I would have been very hesitant to buy a heavily modded 3.6L. Too many things some yahoo can mess up. The engines run fine NA. If you wanted a supercharged or turbo why not just buy a stock TT? May we ask who the dealer is and who did the PPI so others can beware? I got several opinions before I chose who would do my PPI (RAC Performance in Dallas). They did a top notch thorough job and even made some of the repairs.

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I am waiting to hear as well....

hiya, as far as price goes was it under priced, average, or even a touch expensive but you fell for the spec/looks??? i only ask as slightly under priced at least gives you scope to spend a bit and still break even. good luck and hope it all works out.

Wowie Zowie!! I just read through this thread and I can't believe this! You bought a highly modified used car sight unseen and now you have some problems. I looked at your engine bay picture and sighed heavily. You have an aftermarket supercharger installed on an already brilliant engine design and you are wondering why it doesn't run right. You've already had to "lower" the engine in the engine bay so everything doesn't bang around. Unbelievable! Did you read up on superchargers? Do you understand how they work and what they do? It could be leaning out your 1000-2500 RPM range so badly that you have to kick it up to function in order to even take off...superchargers belong on hot rods for drag racing and it doesn't not even function like a turbo charger with a progressive curve. Watch a drag race, they push those to 7000-8000 RPM (or higher) and pop the clutch to take off. I would ditch everything and go back to stock before trying to venture a guess as to why you have to nail the engine to 2500 RPM to take off, other than you bought a pack of trouble and you're going to spend a lot of time/money getting this one sorted out....caveat emptor!

I do appreciate the responses and I am looking for resolution to the remaining issue here which is the lag in throttle response. To reply to the various questions: Who was the dealer and PPI? I will only reply to this if you PM me. My experience may be unique and I do not want to publicly state details on the dealer and PPI. I would say if you have a concern about buying from a used car dealer in the Houston area and want a PPI too, I can tell you who not to use based on my experience here. Buyer beware on a used car I understood the risks here and have bought many cars using a PPI, sight unseen. I understand this is risky being highly modified but I had to trust the words coming out of my sales persons mouth and the report I had from the PPI. I have little to no hope in receiving remuneration from the dealer or PPI but I am going to try for the items that should have been picked up. Namely: MAF Tie Rods Tranny Mount Motor Mounts Basic running condition of the car. The sales person was saying as he drove it that it was solid and ran perfect. That he sells many 911's per month and this was on par if not better than most because of the SC. The PPI did pick up the "wet" RMS and I was ok with this. I negotiated a little more off the price due to this knowing I would replace the RMS when I received it. I chose to spend the cash on the RMS and my Indy thought it may be prudent to do the IMS too based on the actual source of the leak. Cost of the car was about average after I was able to talk them down a little bit. Probably could have been cheaper but I did see value in the high-end wheels and suspension upgrades. Note, I am not whining or complaining here, my goal is to get the car running well. Hopefully some here can learn from my mistakes as most certainly I did. I want to glean some technical information and suggestions from you all to resolve the issues and move on. I would say that I am disappointed in the car insomuch as the promises from the dealer. That said, lastly, the Supercharger itself may or may not be the reason for my throttle lag. Im checking fuel and spark now. If the SC is the issue - I am only a few hours away from the manufacturer of the SC and will make a crusade there for their help and advice. Thanks in advance for any positive suggestions about the last remaining item.

PM sent. Hope you get all issues worked out.

Just another POV ... I wouldn't do anything with the car (including driving it) until you talk it through with you PPI guy. If you can't get satisfaction from him, then go to the dealer. If you can't get satisfaction from the dealer, go to their local BBB. This shouldn't be your problem to solve, at least until you exhaust these primary options.

Still waiting on reply to my PM.