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YOUR RESEARCHOne Lap of America: Oil Conundrum
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shape of the stock caliper m5 pad is rare
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The issue is the shape of the stock caliper M5 pad is rare, so your options are basically Hawk HT10s or Ferodo DS2500 or DS3500.
Leading evidence: 'shape of the stock caliper m5 pad is rare' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'shape of the stock caliper m5 pad is rare' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check list.....clothes,snacks,55 gallon drum of princess motor oil' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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I ran both m1 and liquimoly for 1 year 4K miles with a track weekend in the middle with 40+ laps - and in both cases uoa came back with no issues .....of course ymmv...
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I used the HT10s for Targa and while they do have enough temp resistance, they have too much torque for 200 or 300TW street tires AND they are really rough on rotors.
Check list.....clothes,snacks,55 gallon drum of princess motor oil
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^^^well said.....sans HBO drama ......i would not wanna have to have a trip check list.....clothes,snacks,55 gallon drum of princess motor oil
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8 years ago I see I had run 5 race weekends (sprint & enduro races, not DE) including street driving to/from the track for over 3,000 miles on the same fill of mobil1 0w-40 over the span of a year.
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Besides, from my personal experience of driving/tracking dozens of cars, running an independent repair shop, being involved with PCA (and many other clubs), instructing, racing etc.
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Considering the Tire Rack One Lap of America 2018. Based on past routes, we expect 6 tracks and ~3,300 miles, not including the travel to and from north Florida to the first/last event site. My 996 is a great dual-purpose car in that it is only lightly modified, and I've always kept up on maintenance so it's reliable. It's also pretty easy on brakes as the stock cooling is pretty good. I have IMS Solution as well.
If I run DT40, 3,300 street miles is no problem. However, I will overheat the oil on track and cause undue wear.
If I run XP9, the TBN will drop after the first or second day.
Potential solutions:
1. Find some mystery oil (Miller's Nano Drive? Motul 300V?) that can survive the whole duration of the trip.
2. Install an oil cooler and run DT40(not legal for my SCCA autocross class, so it would have to come BACK OFF after One Lap).
3. Bring a small tool/tire trailer full of XP9 and those TBN wipes. Replace XP9 oil every time the TBN drops, say 3-5 times, cost approximately $600-$1000.
4. Just drive my E39 M5 instead. It uses that 10w-60 and the rings fit so loose, it doesn't give a **** you just top it up with a quart every couple days. It however has crap brakes and goes through pads like nobody's business.
The issue is the shape of the stock caliper M5 pad is rare, so your options are basically Hawk HT10s or Ferodo DS2500 or DS3500. I tried DS2500s and they melted a full 50% through on one testing day at track. I used the HT10s for Targa and while they do have enough temp resistance, they have too much torque for 200 or 300TW street tires AND they are really rough on rotors.
People used to upgrade the brakes with Stoptech calipers that had a wider range of available pads, however now that E39 M5s in driver condition are only worth 10-15k, doesn't make a lot of sense to drop $5k in brakes on one.
I think M5 on HT10s and bring spare rotors is a workable option.
I'd just take the M5 so I could push it on the track & pads are an easy update. If you take the 996, why not just take it easy & not go flat out for more than a few laps? Nearly all of the bad stuff happens once the oil is heat-soaked >230F.
Cool to see you participating in something like that! M5 seems like a great option with pads (and maybe some ducting to the front brakes). As for oil, I think you'd be fine with any approved fresh oil, especially since (I believe) you only get 3 laps per track don't you?
Good luck!
Well I'm not sure how many laps you get but it's not a lot, so maybe regular oil would be fun.
Not going flat-out is not an option!
Im leaning back to M5; if even the Rennlist crowd thinks so then I say it's the best bet.
I know I will be criticized for this, but here goes anyway. I track my 996 pretty routinely. I drive it fast, and I keep pace in the advanced group as much as one can do on street tires, but I wouldn't say I abuse it. And I run Mobil1 oil in it. I change oil about every 2 track weekends (~6-8 hours of track time, and a couple thousand street miles). I examine the filter, I send off samples for analysis, I listen to the engine like it contains all the secrets of the universe, but frankly nothing ever changes and it hasn't let me down so far. An oil and filter change costs me about 50 bucks.
So in your case, I would probably take an extra 10 quarts of oil and change oil at the mid-way point of your trip. Or if you're really only doing a few laps at each track, I might not change it at all.
Sacrilege, I know.
But seriously, if you're talking about spending $1000 on oil to run a few laps in an old car, I feel like it's time to take a step back and re-think the approach, which you are doing, so that's good. A One Lap experience should not involve a $1000 oil budget.
Ha, I'm with dkraige, it's a car not fine china... Besides, from my personal experience of driving/tracking dozens of cars, running an independent repair shop, being involved with PCA (and many other clubs), instructing, racing etc. if anything I would say that for the most part, you can take forum advice with a grain of salt. It's a popularity contest. Once somebody "respected" says something and it's repeated enough times, it becomes indistinguishable from fact. The only reason I'd do the M5 is I'd rather spend that amount of time on the highways in that car! I don't know how many dozens of track events I've done in lightly modified 996 C2s (and your 40th AE has much better cooling and oiling) without trouble. I wouldn't hesitate to do it in that car, I just think you'll be more fresh when it's all said and done in the e39 M5.
Yeah the 55gal drum of xp9 on a trailer was sort of a joke. I agree spending $1000 on oil is a little crazy for a week-long trip.
I think based on comfort, cargo, and the fact that I'm fine with me and a friend driving the dog-**** out of it, we are gonna default to the E39 M5 even though it is (comparatively) a pig on track versus the 911.
why have a 911 if you can't take it on a trip like this?
I'd run a good street oil, DT40 or M1 5w50, maybe bring 10 extra quarts and filter, and do one change.
Given how short your track sessions are I would run DT40 for the trip and forget about it. The main issue that requires use of XP9 is the high heat viscosity loss towards the end of a track session on very hot days. Probably not an issue doing 3-6 laps.
How did these cars get this stereotype of being so frail? This thread made me look back at my history from years ago and my C2 race car should be a ghost considering the sentiment around here. 8 years ago I see I had run 5 race weekends (sprint & enduro races, not DE) including street driving to/from the track for over 3,000 miles on the same fill of mobil1 0w-40 over the span of a year. And the same car/engine has continued to be raced since then...
I ran both m1 and liquimoly for 1 year 4K miles with a track weekend in the middle with 40+ laps - and in both cases uoa came back with no issues .....of course ymmv...
DT40 should never be used on the track. It was not developed or proven for track use.
You need to run XP oils on track, and change to DT oils for the Street. It sucks to deal with, but we have proven over and over that this is a requirement. The roles could not be more different t between Street and track for these engines.
Well, since going through 100 liters of XP9 on our 7,000 mile round trip of the country and tracks was cost-prohibitive, we left the 996 at home and brought the E39 M5.
The M5 had a fresh clutch and ground control coilovers so it drove well and we didn't have any issues on the transits or on track. We ran the liqui moly 10w60 and burned about 4 liters over the 7,000 miles, which is pretty great all things considered.
Brakes were an issue. Even though each track session is just a recon lap followed by a standing launch and two hot laps, the M5 on the Michelin PS4s was making a ton of brake heat and the HT10s didn't last the week. We put in Porterfield R4-E pads and kept bleeding RBF660 through it and it was fine.
It's funny reading back on this my synopsis for choice #4 was *exactly* accurate. We added about a cup of oil a day. The best part was that I feel like we got half of an oil change in since we added so much fresh oil. We brought 15 liters with us with the intent to do a change halfway through but the schedule for OLOA is too daunting.
I HIGHLY recommend One Lap of America. If you're on the fence, JUST DO IT.
