How many miles on your engine with the original IMS bearing?

I'm convinced that the 996 engines are liable ones and that the IMS issue has been exaggerated by companies marketing "solutions". One way to find out if I am right (or wrong) is to ask here: How many miles on your engine with the original IMS bearing? Mine is a 1999 C2 convertible with 76000 miles.

0. It wasnt worth it to risk a $20,000 rebuild when while the clutch was being done i could spend the extra $1,000 for piece of mind.

I made it to 122000 miles by the skin of my teeth! The bearing was so close to failure it was a question of possibly a few miles more before the "big bang". Mine is a 99 as well, driven "firmly" all of its life including track time.

02 C4 had 113,000 and the bearing looked good other than having oil in it. Did the clutch, did the bearing. Worth it.

Daily driver at 143K+ miles 99 C2 manufactured 7/98

Finally! This is a topic I can appreciate: 99 C2 with 90k on original bearing, original clutch, and original RMS. Build date of 3/98.

Just ask the guys that lost their motors do to IMSB failure. If you can't afford a $20K+ rebuild, a $1-2K expense to prevent the failure makes a lot of sense to me. Roll the dice how ever you like, it your wallet!

How many miles on your engine before you replaced the IMS?

99’ C2 Cab, 117,000, small amount of wear, replaced because I had already bought bearing.

The IMS has been a problem for a very small percentage of 996 but reduces the value of all of them. I'm just trying to demonstrate that the 996 is a good car sold way below its' value due to the IMS bad reputation promoted by companies selling "solutions".

Mine had 71,500 miles on it. The clutch was due, so I had the bearing replaced at the same time. The bearing that came out looked pretty much like new, so certainly it had a bunch more miles left in it. But for peace of mind, I'm still glad that I had it done. Daryll

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Me? I replaced my engine. JBOO, have you even taken the time to read through the IMSB poll or the other 1000's of IMSB related topics? It's been beaten to death and the creation of another is just not necessary!

99 c2 Coupe 130k original bearing with outer seal removed,Tiptronic daily driver. 99 c2 Cab 70k had stage 1 IMSB failure caught during 2nd gear syncro repair 02 986 90k ...bought after stage 5 IMSB failure (bent valves) put 20k 3.2 "S" motor in..

The previous owner of my car had The IMS Solution installed at 33,000 miles. That means that for 4 years and 19,000 miles he never had to worry about his IMS bearing. He also had the clutch, RMS, AOS and water pump done. The car has over double that now on it, and I never leave sleep over my IMS bearing

Mine was at about 130,000 with no issues, but I installed a new one when I had the engine rebuilt as part of making it a track toy.

70k. Original clutch/imsb

Forgot year. 2000 C2

Yep. It's all made up. The Earth is flat too, in case you didn't know.

Now you’ve done it...happy now?

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Ha Ha Ha..... jake maybe you should send him a private message to "sell" him a solution. who would think, a company that designs a product to potentially save us owners tens of thousands of dollars. And supply all of us with your free research and knowledge. The nerve of you! You should be ashamed.

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JB, what the heck are you smoking man!? You really think the whole thing is a big made up conspiracy? Really? Why would these companies spend 15+ years of their lives in research and development blowing up motors left and right (so that we don't have to) in order to produce durable IMS products and install kits that are better than what left the factory? Wouldn't be easier to just make a copycat bearing from the OEM and then hire a high-dollar marketing team to promote it near the time of the class action lawsuit? Why waste 15 years of your life, right? Seriously, Porsche had their chance and they blew it (no pun intended). All they were doing is brushing the problem under the rug, suppressing the evidence, and replacing engines. Ignorance is bliss! If Porsche didn't think there was a problem, then they wouldn't have made three versions of the bearing! But they knew... they made compromises at the expense of the owners. This picture was taken at the shop during my IMS Solution install. They said that was the "small stack"! They had throw out hundreds over the years. They also showed me a picture of a large metal recycle bin filled with metal shrapnel from blown M96/M97 engines due to IMS failure. No, this wasn't to scare me into having the IMS Solution installed, I had already made the decision BEFORE I saw these intermediate shafts. I knew the right thing to do and I'm not looking back.

2000 coupe, 92,000 miles, original IMS.

97,748 completed, previous owner, L&N Dual row update kit. I bought it at 99,000

Someone's looking for trouble.....

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And the moon landings were fake too. Since the moon landings were fake, then the m96 ims must be a fantasy too. That�s why I had the IMs Solution installed on my new to me 2003 in November. I have driven the car a total of 120 miles so far. argh, where is spring? All kidding aside, I don�t understand why do anything but the Solution. Isn�t the price differential when all is said and done about $1000 which is 20%? You still replace the clutch, flywheel, rms, AOS.

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I certainly don't think that "whole thing is a big made up conspiracy" and clearly understand the problem but think that most of the 996 never had any issue with the IMS. We all can see 996 sold for less than a used 100 000 miles Camry (No offense to the Camry which are good cars; my wife loves her 3rd Camry). Luckily, I didn't visit this forum before buying my 996, otherwise, I will still drive a BMW... I appreciate that Companies developed a "solution" to replace the defective IMS but all the noise made around this $1,000.00 part (less than 1/1000 of the new car value) ruined the 996 market value and I think that it is time to let people know how amazing are these cars even after 20 years of daily drive.

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996 market value didn’t drop because of the IMS. It dropped because of the era of the car, and the recession that hit at a critical time in the life of these cars. Compare the loss of value to other European sports cars of the era and you’ll see that the 996 fared pretty well.

99 C2, 4/98 build, 94,000 miles, original clutch, IMSB, but the driver(me) looks worse for wear every day.

It�s just a matter of when not if with any engine. I don�t think any 996 is going to touch the guy with over 800k on his C5. Cold starts will eventually lead to a failure. It might not be the IMS that goes first either but it�s serviceable, so roll the dice however you like.

99 C2 with 54k on the original IMSB... but Im on the second engine! First one lasted to 98k when the bearing blew

IMSB is so yesterday, we're on to bore scoring today...Try to keep up JBOO

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I don't share your opinion as the other Porsche-price didn't drop the same way. If my car was one year older it will worse 60,000.00 more dollars and I personally think that this is mainly due to the bad publicity made around the IMS issue. Just take a look to what is said on youtube

I'm at about 64k miles with, as far as I know, the original clutch and IMS bearing. So for now, I guess I'm rolling the dice. I was thinking about just replacing the darn thing along with the clutch and RMS when I bought the car a few months ago. Now, I'm not so sure. The mechanic that did the PPI has proactively replaced three perfectly good IMS bearings. Still, I'll probably just bite the bullet and do it this spring. I'm really undecided about doing it myself or paying to have it done. If I do it, the car will be on jack stands so I'm thinking about dropping the engine and transmission rather than just the tranny.

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Folks look deeply in that second sentence. That's exactly what I thought too for a long time. That is, if the mechanic discovers a "perfect bearing", then it's just proof that Porsche made good IMS bearings after all... and, further proof that they (i.e. Flat6, LN, EPS, Pedro, PCA, etc.) are all wrong and the IMS fiasco is just big hoax, right? Wrong! The truth is, you don't want to see a failing bearing... period! At that point, it's not qualified for a retrofit until the motor is repaired and cleansed of all metal contaminants. When you drop the transmission and examine the bearing to find it hasn't failed, then be thankful, because now you've caught it before it's too late. It's not a matter of "if", but when. I'm sure there are many shops that install new retrofit IMS bearings in cars that have failing bearings. That's the worst thing you want to do. Eventually, the metal from the old failing bearing will not only eventually damage the motor, but it will take out the new bearing with it. Make sense.

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Hi, Tommy. When I read your statement if makes me wonder how many people "rolled the dice" and now the cars are but rollers. It's good to hear that you have a good running car. When was the motor replaced? Maybe it has the durable M97 large bearing? That would be good news for you!

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I think someone needs to do some further research on 911's. The last of the air cooled cars at the time were not selling very good. A lot of people think the 996 saved porsche. Even the value of the air cooled cars 20 years is not what they are today. The demand went up because the era died. Most people would agree that the 996 has hit its low when it comes to value. Now more than ever with all the magazines and articles talking about "Buy them now before the price go up". I think most of us would agree that the 996 will never do what the air cooled era value is at now. But the trend is very similar. I also agree with Jake about the value has done well compared to others. Compare a same model year 911 to any BMW or Mercedes and see how it held up in value.

It's amazing the mileage that some folks have had out of the original bearings!

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Gotta question since you worked with Porsche for a long time. When a customer towed a in-warranty 996 to your dealership for repair and you determined it was catastrophic engine failure because of the IMS bearing, how were you instructed to repair the customers car? Did Porsche have you rebuild the motor with a new intermediate shaft? Or did you just replace the motor with a Porsche remanufactured "AT" engine?

1999 with 58K on the odometer with the original IMS bearing.

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^^ This, plus it's a hugely mass produced car (for a sports car).

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not really IMO. The IMSB gets all the bad publicity, but it’s not the only problem with these engines nor is it the most likely failure mode. For example, my car had an engine failure at 59k miles due to a spun con rod bearing. Also had evidence of intermix, bore scoring, and insufficient lubrication. I didn’t own the car at the time of the failure. When I took the engine apart for analysis, the IMSB was in prefect condition!

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Didn't I read somewhere that Raby states there are like 31 modes of failures with the M96/M97 motors? Hope he does more videos on all those topics. Glad he hasn't totally left the 986/996/997.1. community. I'm humbled and grateful to his contribution. I've made many positive steps because of his advice. I read over on the 997 forum, that he has chosen to not reveal information on the 9A1 platform. Maybe because of their sour attitude and they pissed on his advice? Oh well. I'm not planning on selling my 996 anytime soon and so I'm good for now. Jake please keep the information flowing! Thank you!

The 9A1 is a very recent design. No one will really know it�s weaknesses for a while. Direct injection definitely has it�s own set of issues and the significant design changes of the 9A1 will reveal it�s own set of issues with time. If I owned a business rebuilding Porsche engines I wouldn�t give away everything until I was certain I understood the problem and had a solution. That�s just good business. I�d be real interested to know the outcome if the IMS case had reached the same judge that ruled against Ford on the TFI module. We�d all likely have free engines or seriously extended coverage.

We finished our first 9A1 DFI engine in February of 2010. Some 9 years into this game, we have proved a lot, and we've found more things that don't work, than things that do work when it comes to modifications. We are always learning. That never stops. Thats why we will never be experts. Experts stop learning. Remember, the Eisen Vs. Porsche case was a "settlement".

I asked a very simple question to Rennlisters about 996 mileage with the original IMS and see that some folks feel insulted and keep pushing to change the subject of this thread. Are some questions are forbidden by the owners of the true IMS religion?

Mine had around 200K miles on the original double row.

2001 C4 cab 62k miles. Bought it new and it never saw the dealer or mechanic.Daily driver for 5 years then sold it. I changed the oil every 5K. Never even heard of the ims issue back then. Wish there was a way to find that car and see what happened to it. I now have a 2003 C4 cab 10,400 mile garage queen First thing I did was get the solution. REAL CHEAP INSURANCE! I put 7000 permagrin miles on it in 6 months and NEVER worry about the ims. I don't think I could have driven the car without that piece of mind. If the first car blew at least it was still under Porsche warrenty. IF I would have known how much my 993 would have appreciated I would have kept it!

RL'er 911user has 376,000 on his x51 Anniversary Edition Carrera see the 40th Registry thread https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...y-and-faq.html

125,000 on my 1999

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Actually, that was after the "IMS issue has been exaggerated by companies marketing solution" allegation. You didn't just merely ask a question, but you started off by stepping on the companies that have produced products that have helped keep our cars out of the landfills. Insulted? Me, nope. It takes whole lot more to get under my skin. I didn't spend the last 15+ years of my life developing products that would keep these motors from exploding. I truly hope you get many more years out of your car with the original bearing, but if it grenades going down the road, I hope you'll at least come back on Rennlist and admit you made a mistake. I did a poll back in Sep and basically out of 195 people that responded, only 22% are sticking with the original OEM bearing and only about 5% are replacing it with an OEM type bearing. Cheers! https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ke-a-poll.html

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For the first few years of the m96 engine and g96 transmission, as with all new designs, there were no internal parts available and no authorization to do any internal repairs. If an engine or transmission was diagnoses as needing internal repair, the complete assembly was replaced and old one was returned for analysis. Many more engines were replaced due to RMS leaks in the early years (seal was redesigned 5-6 times) and AOS failure, IMSB failure was virtually non-existant unitll the single row IMSB's started to fail in spectacular fashion. These engines were replaced with the "AT" complete reman assembly's for a number of years until supply was getting low, then authorization was released to repair these engines with new shafts. No replacement bearing was available (there is an OEM "kit" now after 20 yrs..lol), no aftermarket bearing/kit was authorized.. As far as reputation goes, the reputation of the 996 failures even took down the 996 Turbo for a while. Most people didn't make the distinction between the M96 and the Mezger engines. We had 996 Turbo's traded in with 40k-50k miles for $29k -$30k (actual book value).. then the word started to get out that the Turbo was more robust and it's value started to climb back up while the Carrera kept downward.

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Not forbidden but the subject has been beat to death! Many different opinions have been shared over and over again. Just go back and read the old IMSB threads over the past 15 years...

deleted

2004 C2 Cab here with ~ 60,000 miles. RMS was replaced under warranty early in the this car's life, probably due to leaking. Original IMSB, single row I think, in this '04 example. I plan to replace when needing a new clutch. /X3

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The subject will never die.IMHO

[QUOTE=Flat6 Innovations; Experts stop learning. /QUOTE] I think you are an expert and that experts don't stop learning. Their desire to learn is what got them there to begin with.

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Thank you for your amazing technical response to my question. I appreciate your time and efforts to our 996 community. Personally, as a parting comment on this thread.... I think these 996 cars are amazing. Without a doubt, truly great Porsches! If you address the known issues, you'll have a car that will last a long time without serious problems and give you the biggest trill ride of your life, but if you ignore the advice of the knowledgeable, respected people on this forum, then you may find yourself on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck. That simple. Cheers!

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I have to agree about the greatness of the design and overall driving experience. It's pretty sublime compared to anything else of it's era, and it's a whole lot lighter than any contemporaries built today. It's why I plan on taking care of mine well and if something bad ever happens, it'll be time for a big upgrade.

'99 C2, original double-row bearing, 81,000 miles

My 99 C2 has 92k miles with the original bearing. A lot of those miles are track miles. Commenting on the "value" tangent, the 996 came out a couple of years after the "cheap" entry level Boxster. The skin on the front end of the 996.1 is identical to the Boxster, including the headlights. I think this devalued the 911. The 996 was also mass produced and the first generation after the "classic" air cooled cars that were the core of Porsches DNA. I think history will look back fondly on the models produced before the smaller displacement "turbo" cars produced since the 991.2. The 996.1 - 991.1 cars are smaller and lighter than each successive version. They are also less complicated. I think the 1999s will hold a special place as the last of the analog cars. If I crash my 99 on the track, I will buy another 1999, even though I have the means to buy a more expensive version.

I love my low mileage, ( 65k) original engine, 3/98 production 99 C2 and like hearing about the longevity factor on the dual row bearing. Due to the fact that I have limited service history, it seems that the logical approach would be to replace the IMS bearing. So, while these posts may seem like beating a dead horse, guys like me can use them as a word to the wise and don't fudge on having a fresh bearing in their engines. Thanks for posting and keep it coming

My 2001 has 86,000 miles on the original bearing. The cover and seal were replaced at around 50k miles with a new clutch by the previous owner, but the bearing itself was not replaced. To me it doesn't make financial sense to replace it. ~$3-4000 repair on a ~$18,000 car to prevent a failure that has maybe a 10% likelihood. I've owned the car for over 3 years and gotten tremendous enjoyment out of it on an $18,000 purchase price. If it blows up, it makes the most sense to sell it as a roller or part it out and buy something else. Would still be a very good investment on a fun-per-dollar basis.

Something a friend who is a software security guys says comes to mind: risk equals probability times impact. The risk of a high impact, low probability event could exceed the risk of a high probability, low impact event. So with the expensive engine repair or replacement costs from a failed IMSB, it's pretty high (and quantifiable) impact. Even at low probability, it is a risky proposition. In that case, it all boils down to your risk tolerance.

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This all makes sense. My feeling is that if you can't afford to throw away "teens" of thousands of dollars, you shouldn't drive a car that cost $70-100k when it was new. It's just not going to be enjoyable if you can't live in that reality that some percentage of the value of the car might just get eaten up. The beauty of these cars is that the market hates them, so you can buy a "supercar" for economy car price, but in the end it's still a relatively low-volume, needy car that could explode at any time, so if you can't afford to think of it as disposable, you won't enjoy owning it. But I don't see a reason to proactively spend the money up front to fix a phantom problem that may never occur; instead, I choose to just enjoy driving the car for free and roll the dice, and I'll take the financial hit later if it happens to come.

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$3-$K repair? How'd you come up with that?

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Thank you for your kind words. I agree with your personal view on the 996. At first glance when the 996 came out, it was breathtaking !! A courageous new design with clear DNA of racing history. A completely new platform that was longer, wider, lighter, more powerful, better handling, more aero dynamic than previous designs. A true testimate to Porsche engineering. Even with certain engine flaws revealed, the fact that some of the highest quality materials are used can lend its self to longevity and many many miles of service with little wear. Like you say, if you understand these flaws, calculate the risk, prepare for the worst, but hope for the best, the 996 will deliver. If you are prepared for the worst, and it happens, then you are not devastated,and can't wait to get the car back on the road to enjoy. If you are not prepared, haven't correctly calculated the risk, or don't understand these flaws, you can be devastated when things don't go as you hoped !! Porsche made a true effort to build a great engine, using the best materials and processes the engineering department could source. I blame the accounting department for some of the shortcomings of this engine, namely the decision to use the same pistons for both banks instead of dedicated banks with appropriate offsets. also the decision to go to a single row 6204 IMSB instead of staying with the dual row, and others. But Porsche was in financial trouble and the 986 and 996 saved them...they were the best selling models for Porsche ever , until the Cayenne..

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Lots of people on this site and others talking about what they spend on the repair. Am I wrong?

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Me too. I don't lose any sleep over it, or a moment worrying about it. Just sharing a point of view.

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That is not a repair. That is a remediation. In other words, proactively replacing the IMS bearing plus clutch, RMS, AOS, maybe flywheel. That is $5k. If the IMS bearing let's go, it is not $5k. It is more like $20k. It is all about risk tolerance. As I tell my financial planner, if I make $50k on investments this year, it will make absolutely no difference to my life. If I lose $1k, I will be really pissed off. Very conservative approach. Probably wrong from an investment strategy but then, making money is not my life's priority. I chose a 996 for 2 main reasons: 1. Hated the 997.1 interior. That dated NAV plus silver paint all over the interior is just awful. Has the same IMS issues too. 2. I couldn't get over the 997 not having a spare tire. Yes, I could have purchased one, plus a jack etc. etc. As much criticism as there is about the 996 interior, I quite like it. It is all black, nothing fancy just functional. That sums me up. I like having a spare tire. Where am I going to find a 285/30/18 on a Saturday night driving 100 miles to my cottage? With the spare tire, I will likely make it there!

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^ Truth.

replaced mine at 90K miles, 2001 C2......double row bearing came out and was in perfect condition....preventive maintenance with clutch replacement

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My engine was replaced by the previous owner in 2006. Replacement engine is M960IAT66X66900 I feel like I've seen a chart where the bearing type and engine number are charted. The previous owner told me that in 2006, the shop that did the replacement was asked not to open the engine up, just send it back. The receipt shows $18,987 as the total for parts and labor. In my stack of receipts I see the same shop provided an oil change just a week before.

I think a lot has to do with the year of the 996 and how it is driven. My 2007 had a Dchunk issue and the engine was rebuilt along with a new (latest from Porsche) IMS bearing. I now have 56K miles on it and the engine blew for the second time during a DE event due to the IMS bearing failing. Early 996's have the large dual row IMS bearing, but from 2001 to 2005, Porsche used the small single row IMS bearing which is the most prone of all IMS bearings to fail. 2006-2008 Porsche used a large diameter IMS bearing. 2009 on there is no IMS bearing in 911's .

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I don�t agree. Sometimes a fresh thread is necessary as people come and go. I appreciate this thread.

129k on original bearing

20 years, 175000 miles.

I'm not sure you'll get a decent answer to your question here. This is an enthusiast's site so everyone here is passionate, to a greater degree, than other Porsche 996 owners past and present.

I’ll chime in on this, my car is currently sitting at 205k miles and still original Ims bearing. And I’m not worried at all. yes it’s a 99, build date 3/98. Car runs just fine. If it were to go now I wouldn’t feel bad, wouldn’t be happy but not upset. been a great car.

My first year of Porsche ownership, that summer of driving, my IMS reared it's ugly head. Earlier that fall I bought a 2001 C2 Cab with a tip, not the greatest choice, I know. But it's my first and I plan to keep it forever. The first sign of a problem was an oil leak, very small. I blew it off. 'Don't all of these things leak oil?' Further having fun driving it, I was leaving a nice Chicago-PCA concours event at Weather Tech and my ABS light went on, alternator. I made plans to take it to an indy shop. Monday I'm on my way out there and I don't make it. The alternator took a dump, onto a flatbed. Once diagnosed at the shop, the IMS and the RMS were done. Thankfully I didn't have a roller, but I assume I came pretty close. And might very well have if the Bosch alternator didn't shut me down. This would have happened at about 55k on the odo and the 996 was 12 years old at the time. These cars need to be driven right? It has a little over 70k now and I drove it on Route 66 last year, Chicago to LA. Look for #9960n66 if you want to see some of my photos. Like I said, these cars need to be driven. I'm not scared of the IMS. I added a M97 to the garage this past year in the for of a 987 Cayman S. It's got 83k on it.

So here is the question. My car is also a 1999. Rather than starting a new thread I would like to ask if anyone here has had to deal with the IMSB failure on a 1999 and do all 99’s have the double roller?

‘04 with 95k mi. on it. Clutch went so the IMSB got done. Old bearing was perfect. My current ‘04 has 56k mi and has had the bearing and clutch done. I’ll replace the bearing again when the clutch goes again. I’m guessing around 120k mi. Cheap insurance. TC

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Rare but 99's with dual row have/do fail too. Because of the dual row they shed more material when failing.

29,500 on my '99 C4 cab. Second owner. I'm saving up for the work to be done.