269 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHAnother 996 on BAT rebuilt but with engine issues
Reported or suspected cause
smugness in the way he delivered the increase
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
It was the smugness in the way he delivered the increase to me.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
$32k isn't out of the ballpark for a clean 40AE with it's original engine, so the all in price here isn't bad for a decent car with a zero worries motor in it.
Leading evidence: 'smugness in the way he delivered the increase' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'smugness in the way he delivered the increase' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean 40ae' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I was addressing the "repaired" total price was not out of line for the U.S.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
In this particular case we had codes for two of the 4 sensors upon reinstallation of the repaired engine.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The engine was ran this way for a long time, and was misdiagnosed, and mi- repaired many times, with the underlying condition never being addressed.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I ran across a guy with a new Cayman last summer in the San Juans that recently traded in his 40th AE 996 due to increasing maint.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
Clean 40ae
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
$32k isn't out of the ballpark for a clean 40AE with it's original engine, so the all in price here isn't bad for a decent car with a zero worries motor in it.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
269 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
1 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
He has not chimed in yet in the comments to the listing. But yes why is it having problems. All that oil is going someplace. It's it not leaking then it's burning.
Seems if you can get the car at a good price, a 12K rebuild from Jake would net you a really nice driving car. If only the aesthetics were in better shape!
I'm close to Palo Alto, I can check out the car for any interested parties. Wondering if the engine ticks or makes any abnormal noises.
Glad Jake chimed in. My initial thought was that they were making an awfully big claim with the only supporting evidence being a sticker in the door jamb...
Even at a potential 12k repair this would be a steal less than $15k and would still be a good deal up to $20k. More than that I don't know since it can never be a collector car at this point.
This one will be interesting.
Yes - Jake has posted on the BAT thread comments.
Car looks used and abused to me - pretty dirty - you think you would wash it before pics to sell.
To me that says the owner doesn't care about it - not looked after it.
If you cannot be bothered to wash it and clean it - what else didn't you bother to do.
Poorly maintained ?
My prediction was correct as discussed on the CL thread. There's a gap in the CarFax between 2008 and 2010 and the car's engine had serious failure. (i.e. the car wasn't registered with the DMV in 2009.)
Per Jake Raby's BAT post, the 3rd owner experienced IMS failure and the motor was reconstructed by Flat6 in 2010. The remaining owners put 7 years and more than 50,000 miles on the motor. Some of the people on the BAT were crazy enough to suggest that Jake Raby should "make good" on the engine. translation: fix it for free. hahaha.
Maybe they should spit in one hand and wish in the other, then see which one fills up first.
Either this car was properly diagnosed and the owner is not saying what the results were and it needs extensive internal engine repairs. OR there was no proper diagnosis and the owner just wants to get rid of the car as-is. A real DIY'er could benefit from buying this car, otherwise I think it's a crap shoot.
Raby has no obligation to this engine what so ever. The car looks like a normal daily driver to me (as it should be), not abused and not some garage queen like some of you guys have.
Hmmm... Anyone want to start a pool on if Jake puts a bid in if it stays low? I know he doesn't like being in the car selling business, but he has expressed an interest in knowing what has happened to the motor and for the right price he could make a decent profit when he flipped it.
Current bid is 6K, and Jake has mentioned that at worse, the repairs will be 12K. My bet is the car will sell for much higher than 6K.
True on the questionable condition of the car. If the seller lives in Palo Alto, (which I assume he does as the driveway shots matches the hoeing in the area) money is the least of his concerns, and more often than not, i've seen trashed up supercars parked on the streets. It's just not a priority to some rich folks I guess.
Brillant thought! What better way to get 50,000 mile data regarding your work and how effective it is over a 7 year period. Researchers pay a whole heck of a lot more for that information.
Perfect recipe for hidden value imo
.. posted on BaT that I'd be surprised to see it sell under $18k. A 3.8L nickies build with 3 radiators & a 40yr anniversary sticker is a special package.
I ran across a guy with a new Cayman last summer in the San Juans that recently traded in his 40th AE 996 due to increasing maint. requirements. It's not surprising to see this one pop up.
I agree. As I mentioned earlier, I think as high as $20k could be considered a reasonable deal. If for some shocking reason the buyer gets it in the 10-15k range then I think they've stolen it (especially if it comes back on the cheaper end of Jake's estimate).
I agree with Tony that $18k is probably close to the number for this car.
On the other hand, it puts all interested parties on notice. They get to stew about for a few days before the animal spirits force them to do unreasonable things
.
I'll just keep puffing up the value proposition to goad them on
$20k with the potential for as much as $12k from Raby...plus shipping to and fro...plus refreshing and updating this car (new Litronics at $2-3k, bumper spray job at least) is a steal???? 40th AE's really worth that much or do you guys just make an order of magnitude more than I do each year, lol? Dammit...I knew I shoulda become a male prostitute and not an engineer.
No one here has said 20k was a steal. I said 20k was still a reasonable deal because at $35k you have a well sorted driver with a Raby motor. I dare you to find a better deal on a Raby car. Hell, find another Raby car for sale right now.
You won't make a profit at that price and you probably can't even resell it for that price, but it's still a good deal for what you are getting.
Raby motor or not it should be treated as a bit rough 996 with a broken engine. 20k is nuts. I know his engines are mucho $$$ but also the same to fix.
I wouldn't pay much over the current bid either. 12+shipping on the engine, another 3 for shipping and sales tax, at least 3 to fix the interior and exterior, new clutch, you could end up under water real fast and still not have a perfect car.
Dan
Slakker clearly bid to frighten everyone else off a preemptive strike.
One day it will be valuable and we will all kick ourselves for letting Slakker buy it for just $12k.
The answer is two. I "need" exactly 2. And no, I didn't tell the wife I bid on it.
I'm betting on the come. If Jake says 12k on the high end, he hates to be wrong so there's a good change it's much much less. A 40ae is worth 30k and the Raby adds 10k to the value.
Exactly, quite a few people don't understand the concept of expectation. [ probability * max cost + probability * range of other costs ] - expectation among overlapping costs = much less than $12k.
I suppose that's why casinos exist...
I really need a a 40th AE. If I wasn't swimming in 993 costs, I'd be all over this.
This could be a good pick up Slakker. Just try to keep the bleeder valves closed
it was an accident, he meant to enter highest/ initial ceiling bid.
Wait a sec, I thought slakker's silver coupe was at the FSI spa? Duder has tres amigos?
Tell ya what, you buy this AE and I'll pay you the final bid price to take that 993 off your hands. Problem solved
I've seen that blue in person, gorgeous color
Maybe I'm wrong, it is hard to keep track with that guy. I thought the silver and FSI cars were different and he's planning to let go of the silver one when the other car is done.
I love the guy that thinks you can get a decent replacement M96 for less than a 5-10k M97 (which is obviously going to be solid right? right???) with the implication that would be better than sending it back to Jake to have a look at.
I have to give him credit though, I haven't seen so much fail in so few words...
Not sure if it was mentioned in the comments on BAT, but you may want to ask for some date stamped photos. On one of the interior photos, the mileage is 99043. In the one straight on of the dash the mileage is 101,272.
Not saying the seller is doing anything shady, but a lot can happen to a car in 1,230 miles.
I think this is just simply a case of, oh crap I need specific photos for the BAT listing. Let me see what I have on my phone. Just being lazy. I mean, look at how dirty the car is. He really doesn't care.
Look, I may be challenged when differentiating between my **** and a hold in the ground, but you need to trust me here. My fragile ego depends on it. This 40th AE car needs a new engine. mkay?
-Internet Tough Guy
Buying the car is in Jake's best interest. Someone else tearing into this engine could be a potential PR nightmare for him. Best thing for him is to get it in his shop and control the narrative going out on the net.
Yah, when I saw that, I was like "WTF" is he doing!
Thanks for making it all so entertaining...I sure do want to see how this turns out though.
Good luck!
6 hours left and still below 15k.
At that price I still say it's a great deal to just have it shipped directly to Jake for him to fix before you even see it. Worst case you are $30k in including the shipping for a 40AE with a 3.8 motor that you should have zero worries about as long as you listen to Jake about how to care for it.
But isn't one of the benefits of having a 40AE is that it has the extra HP from the factory?
So I don't see how that adds to the equation. Just take any 996 with a bad engine and send it to Jake and you'll probably be in for $30K or so. Get one in great shape with the color you like.
But isn't this about rarity value too, in the long run all limited edition Porsche's become more valuable and it already has a Raby Engine so its a double bonus, assuming nothing too bad is wrong with it of course.
A bit, but while there are no numbers given here I can only assume that Jake would have added to it when turning it into a 3.8. We also know that the big improvement from Jake's magic dust is the improved power band overall rather than just a momentary high peak.
While true, the impression I get from Jake's comments is that you won't be waiting a year for this car to get fixed. His $12k quote is also the worst case too. The closer it comes to his low end estimate of $4k, the better off you are in the equation.
So from a collector's standpoint the Raby will be a minus as they will want stock rebuild. But from an enthusiast perspective the Raby is a huge plus. Interestingly enough, I have no idea of the resale value of a Raby because I never see them for sale.
In my own calculations, I'm figuring a 35% depreciation on the engine the moment you take ownership based upon other high end engines I've seen sell. But I also don't think this is like other engines and am hopeful it is either much less, or I'm never in a position to have to find out.
I may still have two more bids in me for this one.
FYI, I know an experienced racer that moved from a '99 to an '04 with an X51 for the additional power. After a year and half of development the '04 still wasn't as fast around the track as the '99.
Yep! I misread it the first time and had to do a double take.
I'm out. I could go a little higher but with there are enough active bidders that it will go well out of my range. Guessing 21k.
Tough to say exactly but they are lighter, nimbler and the 3.4 is a good design efficiency wise. Most of the extra power on the 3.6 is felt below 3k RPM's which you almost never go below on the track.
Indeed, but what a roller to bet on
I think after repairs this is still a good price for the car/motor, but I doubt it can be sold for a profit any time soon. Basically it's on the high end for 40AE prices best I can tell.
Hmmm... Thought they were in the 28-30 range with some rare 32s.
Remember that this car also has 0 value from a collector perspective since the motor is no longer factory and can never be returned to the factory state. So the 40AE badge is a neat talking point on this car, but carries no value compared to other unmolested 40AEs. Additionally at 101k that is past the taboo milage which brings it's value down. Without Jake's motor in it I expect it's a $25k car at best (probably lower with as little as the seller did to prep and clean the car).
Higher mileage ones trade for high 20's. Sub 50k seems to go for the mid 30's.
When I started shopping for one there were 7 on Autotrader across the country, now there are 3. There's just not a lot out there. Still surprised by what this one fetched.
With 100k on the clock, for now we don't have to worry about collectibility.
Oh man, if it really was KK and he opened that motor... Well I'd just be glad that I don't live between GA and TX...
I would also like to believe that KK isn't arrogant enough to think he can improve Jake's work, though it is KK we are talking about...
Adding 2 pennies here so take it for what its worth.......my 997S has 106K on it with a Raby 4.0 in it that has 15K miles. The engine seems more seasoned every time I drive it and I drive it every day. The power and torque his motors have is a game changer. Just yesterday on my way to work, I have a tight right hander then left with a straight going uphill straight .....I caught air coming out of the turn!
I really don't see me ever selling this car. And if I wreck it, the motor will be pulled to go into something else. The guy on BaT got a very good deal! The sale of that car just just confirms the move I made.
After seeing how that thread went, and what the car brought it, confirms that I need to take some of the broken 996s that the local dealer that we work with has, and fit our engines to them so they can sell them on BAT.
BUT then reality hits and I realize that would be a disaster, because I'd be married to it, and they'd sell it to some guy that more than likely could not be pleased.
Now, I am 90% confident that I know what has happened to the engine in that BAT auction. More than likely an AOS, a set of injectors, and a ton of fuel system cleaner coupled to a very hard dyno session would fix it.
BUT, I do fear that it ran too long with the old, weak AOS, and it ran rich enough to have glazed the cylinders, or killed the rings, or the pistons. The guy that sold the car has been fighting this for a while, and I talked to him a few times. I don't believe that he did anything that I recommended, though.
No, I never did bid on the car. I realized that if I did get the car that I'd fix it, and then I'd have to sell it. The thought of having to deal with the repercussions of that make me cringe.
Someone mentioned earlier in this thread "Jake better get that car back, so someone doesn't open it up and find a problem". What? Its only been 7 years, and 2-3 owners since I saw the car, and my engine was fitted. The best engine on the planet can be killed by dumping oil into the cylinders, and mixing that with fuel. From a performance perspective we've also moved on from every single part that was used in that engine, it is at least 4 generations behind where we are today, in every way.
I don;t even use those rod bearings any more, not the pistons either, not even the valve springs. Its an old engine that was built before 95% of the majority of the companies that build these engines today had even touched one. Its older than at least 4 of the companies that build these engines today, and grace the pages of magazines with ads that look impressive.
The buyer of this car set a precedent.
It's a testament to you and your work that a sick car showed so well. Congrats to you as I think you did far more to sell that car than the seller did.
Again, hope it makes its way back to you so you can bring it back health.
It was clear that the seller was just over and done with the car.
I started not tompost at all, because I figured that nothing good would come from it. You guys have probably noticed that I haven't been active here very much over the last few months. I've pretty much taken that same attitude with any posts, forums, Facebook pages, and etc.
Part way through the auction inwas glad that I did post. It kept the assumptions of what may be wrong with the engine realistic. This also gave a potential buyer an idea of what it would cost at maximum for us to carry out a worst case, invasive repair.
We'll see if the buyer contacts us.. He didn't seem like he was going to, and that's his prerogative. He's going to flush hundred dollar bills down the toilet fast if he isn't careful.
I understand where you're coming from, it's just a matter of perspective. 996s, even 40th AE spec, imo are *not* collectible cars. Some 40th AE cars may be someday, but this is a hot rod. People pay $350-500k for Singers where just about nothing is OEM. All due respect to Stuttgart, they are not the best.. and it's not very close. I'll pay $3-5k more for a GT3 or Turbo that's had a proper, documented weld job on the cooling system + other tasteful upgrades. The proper tuners & enthusiasts that occupy the P-car community add value that most buyers are wholly ignorant of. My car isn't stock & will continue to drift away from OEM spec - as the car gods intended. The suspension, IMS, intake, plenum, console, etc were shyte quality from the factory, so I raised the quality to my standards. If nobody wants to place a bid or offer on my car down the road, so be it. This little addiction was never about the money.
^ $40k++ car all day long imo. The chassis isn't compromised by those miles & we know the engine has 10-20 years of consistent use before another full rebuild is needed. You're buying a lease on a powerful, balanced sports car that is much more unique than average buyers understand. That's the beauty of it, you hot rod without people knowing it. Those that get it and have money will continue to bid on these examples, while people with vanilla aspirations dawdle in the classifieds looking for a mediocre, yet
OEM-spec
996.
perception > quasi-Concours d'El�gance
That's a shame if he doesn't. It was your input and offer to help that made it a 20k car in my opinion. Without that, it's just another slightly better than roller
Oh well, such is life. Go enjoy playing with your new non-Porsche toy
I agree that the ME hasn't had any collector interest, but I think it's clear that AE has since it sits atop the 996 heap for price.
While I agree with the rest of your assessment about making the cars better (even if only for ourselves), collecting the special edition cars is a different mindset. In that world factory specs and factory fresh is king and any variation is a mark against the subject.
I'm with you though, you buy a car to enjoy and you should do whatever is going to bring you the most joy from it and hang the next owner. Of course we've had her 996 for 16 years so that's a bit different perspective than someone who only hangs onto a car for a few years.
Fair enough gnat - I think both markets can go in parallel (collectors / resto-mods) just like with 964s & other not-so-perfect-stock Porsches. There was an orange '73 replica/resto-mod that was plucked off BaT due to VIN discrepancies last fall. While ppl in the comments understood the disqualification of the auction, they were still willing to throw down $75k++ on it. Kind of funny, after a number of years the market morphs into whatever the base components can achieve. It's exciting to see it happen with 996s. The performance & fun factor is there, ppl just need to open their eyes.
That's just crazy money.
I bought #590 back in 2007 for $55K. It was a CPO car still under factory warranty (and had the CPO warranty on top of it). The car had a little over 8K miles on it. This car was MINT...I don't think there was a stone chip or flaw on it. Still smelled new, too.
I kept it close to a year and sold it for around the same money.
The point? well, it's 10 years later and a car that has engine problems, been rode hard and put up wet multiple times, etc. brings $20K?
KrazyK indeed.
I think it was a classic example of what can happen in an auction format. If you look at the bidders the final two went back and forth for the last 2-3K of the final price. It was clear those two guys wanted the car equally as bad, and they jacked the price up.
I buy a lot of military gear at Government Auctions, and most of the time they won't tell you who you are bidding against. BAT isn't like this... If I was a bidder on that car and I placed a bid, and the same guy hit me back that fast, I'd know what his intent was, and would play the cards accordingly.
At auction you either get a smoking deal, because the right bidders aren't participating, or you pay to much for something because the right guy is there. It only takes two for the price to go way up. Seldom do you get just a "fair" deal at auction.
No matter what, a mechanically challenged 996 AE with over 100K miles with my engine just sold for almost 20K, and thats going to set a bar. Looks like its time for another price increase!
If a set of injectors, a full tank of Shell V Power, a few tanks treated with Liqui- Moly Jectron cleaner, and a service with the right oil solves this problem, after the engine is beat on harder than a red headed step child, the guy did get a deal. The first thing to do is a crankcase manometer test, then then follow that up with the treatment I just posted. Thats the first things to do, but if you give me 10 minutes with that car I can see if the internals are hurt. All it takes is a 13mm socket, and a ratchet.
"If a set of injectors, a full tank of Shell V Power, a few tanks treated with Liqui- Moly Jectron cleaner, and a service with the right oil solves this problem, after the engine is beat on harder than a red headed step child, the guy did get a deal. The first thing to do is a crankcase manometer test, then then follow that up with the treatment I just posted. Thats the first things to do, but if you give me 10 minutes with that car I can see if the internals are hurt. All it takes is a 13mm socket, and a ratchet."
Uh,... where's that book again? C'mon Jake, you're killin' us here !!!
Considering others have worked on this engine to try to chase this problem, the buyer is taking one heck of a gable paying this much for this car and hoping it will be a simple fix, even if he can do the work himself. I hope he/she is really lucky.
^^. That's why BAT brings top dollar for 996s is because seldom is there only 1 interested bidder.
Where did the middle finger emoji go? I can't find it anywhere for my reply!
Well, I'm the guy who is either crazy, (I'm sure that some would say foolish), or lucky.
Either way this first time 911 purchase will be an education. At this point my intent is to get the car back to Jake and have them give it the once-over. From there we'll make some decisions. Going to enlist in the "enthusiasts" course that Flat6 offers as well. I'm sure I'll save multiples of the tuition over time.
I'll keep you posted as to what happens
Go easy on me
Welcome to Rennlist and congrats on the purchase! You out bid my buddy Slakker, but in the end you got a good car and have a made a wise decision to send it back to Flat6 and Jake Raby. If you change your mind and don't use Raby, your Porsche 40th AE has a remote self destruct button that we can press and so you better be careful. Just look what they did to my 996 (picture in my avatar). hahahaha!!!
Cheers!
Wow, that's a hell of an entry point. Not something I would suggest for a first timer, but utilizing Jake will get you the best outcome even if the upfront cost hurts a bit.
Congrats on the win and definitely please keep us posted!
Not impossible. The only two guarantees with anything mechanical are:
- It will break
-If it doesn't break first, it will wear out.
Mechanical things start to die the first time they are used. This is a lot like a human, the day we are born, we start to die... If we don't break first, we will wear out, and die.
An engine builder that hasn't had a failure, hasn't built enough engines. Period.
The difference is what happens after things have broken. Thats when the human factor comes in, and it becomes more than mechanical.
Have I had engines break? Damn right. It was part of building my thoroughbred. The value of a failure to someone like me is priceless, its how we learn the things that no one else knows.
Today I will say that I am learning more from the mistakes of others than anything. As more and more people try to build these engines, they end up being carted to me, and we see where they screwed up, and address it. It was a lot easier when everyone was afraid of these things, at least back the I only had to fix my own mistakes.
Karcrazy called today and set things up with Jud, so we will soon know whats going on. I was setting cam timing when he called, and since I hate the phone, I'll talk to him once we begin diagnosis.
CarKrazy, congrats and welcome to the jungle. I think you made a brilliant purchase. It doesn't get any better than a 996 with an FSI engine for your first purchase. You will love it! And sending to Jake and enrolling in the enthusiast program shows that you are intent on doing things right and this will payoff in the end. I'm glad the car went to a smart buyer.
welcome CrazyK
I've put a pretty penny into my 996 in a year of ownership, but have logged 11,000 (s)miles & counting with no plans to do anything but keep improving the car. Good luck getting your sorted - they can be reliable daily drivers once you get them properly refreshed. Lots of fun to be had out there.
Lmo000 with a sour *** comment. That's a new one. Every purchase has its risks. If 12k is the worst case scenario then even with shipping he has a 40 AE with an FSI for $4k over market of a regular 40AE. That's a good deal. But the upside is he could have well under market in it and that's what makes it brilliant.
As long as you don't use a home depot bearing for an IMSb like Imo000 you should be able to avoid the 3 year streak of owning a non-running 996 (like Imo000). Everyone that works with Jake comes out happy with the end product. Just do as he says & enjoy your one of a kind 996.
I still can't get over the power in that car.. 400+hp would make me consider putting 295s on the rear. Maybe re-gear it for 200mph?
Buyer, you got a great car that needs a little tlc. What's great about this car, is the guy who created the Lazarus of the 996 engine is completely aware and on board. Enjoy your 996 as you have the best looking after and in it.
wtf am I doing in the 996 na forum I have a broken spoiler I need to fix.
i live fairly close to Jake's shop, so if you want someone unbiased to drive it once it's repaired to...uh...check out jakes work just let me know. I'm willing to make that sacrifice.
Where did get the idea it was from Home Depot? At least I'm trying something on my own that helps the real gearheads as opposed to just throwing down the checkbook and pretending to be one. Even if the bearing didn't work out it still helped the DIY community.
You didn't "work" with Jake, all you did was pay for his work. Anyone with a checkbook can do that, where is the talent in THAT?
It's more about *wise* judgement than mere mechanical talent. Tony made a very smart decision to have Jake install the IMS solution on his coveted Seal Grey 996. I wouldn't bash him for that.
I can't believe I'm defending TwoBags.
Don't forget "seal grey" is the only right color for the 996, cause Tony said it was! hahaha
Well at least the new guy didn't have to wait long to find out what a bunch of d!cks we are around here
Come on guys, he doesn't even have the car yet for christ's sake!
Flight to San Fran - booked
Hotel - booked
Meeting with vendor - booked
Transport from SF to GA - almost booked, just waiting for confirmation from driver
FSI inspection - booked
Now I have to wait 4 sleeps before I get a chance to see it in person.
Kinda feels like when you were 6 and you accidentally found out you were getting a new bike for Christmas!!!
It's the difference between knowing your limits and having the humility to delegate vs. being an ego driven quasi mechanic with a fleet of cars that can't make it to the next state/province.
Worshipping your ego < Knowing your limits
It's not even my favorite color on the 996s, just enjoy joking about it. More favorite colors:
- carrera gt silver
- lapis blue
- black
- basalt black
- burgundy
GL with the pick up process KrazyK!
You guys are being pretty hard on Imo, he is a damn good wrench. There was a 928 that had been through two reputable shops, it had high performance cams and kept breaking valve springs. It also had a rebuilt steering rack (from another reputable shop) that was leaking like crazy. Imo fixed all these issues for the owner and he couldn't be happier. His stuff sits around broken all the time because he is usually busy helping others and never gets time to work on his own!
To the OP, good luck with your journey with this car I hope you get it back to its former glory!
There is no doubt Lmo is a valuable member of the forum. He's had a lot of posts that are insightful and show the depth of his knowledge. But when he gets cranky his value to the conversation drops rapidly. This thread just happens to be one of those times.
Probably true but in this thread all I asked was to let's wait and see what it takes to get the car up to par before it's declared good deal. Then it all went sideways, partially my fault for not backing down.
The BAT 996 has arrived here at Flat 6. I have begun my diagnostics as of this afternoon. I should have an idea of what the ailment is by Thursday. I'll let you guys know after I speak with the new owner.
Well, there's more where this came from... looks like one reason it could have been burning oil... I have enough data gathered now to know that the engine has to be extracted. Video soon.
Doh!
PO should go and demand his money back from anyone that made him pay for "we can't figure it out"...
So as I recall, this car had Nikkies. Guess that points to a head issue then?
I pulled an oil sample, and sent it to ALS, we'll have it back before I get the time to dissect the engine.
The AOS is perfect, 5 INWC at idle, and is performing as expected at other RPM as well.
The engine has 3 cylinders with dead misfires. It only runs on 3 cylinders, and had 28 DTCs stored in the ECU the first time I pulled the codes. Its classic.
I actually feel worse. I've gotten so used to doing deals on Rennlist that you start assuming everyone is being honest. If this car has a bunch of codes and intermix then the seller was absolutely full of ****. I hate to see that happen to anyone, especially on their first Porsche buying experience. Luckily it's in the right hands now and even if he ends up over budget, he'll still have one of the most badass 996's on the road when it's all said and done. That's why I also would have gone up to 20k if I'd known for a fact I was going to keep it.
I don't recall specifically about codes or intermix, but I know he mentioned talking to Jake and Jake backed him up in that regard. I would imagine that Jake would have covered some of these basics in trying to help which suggests that the PO was incompetent or intentionally kept Jake in the dark.
I'm still with Slakker though in that I don't think this turns the deal into a bad one. Looks like it will at least be at the high end of Jake's original estimate now which puts it in the "not bad, but not a steal" range. Hopefully the new owner will allow the final cost to be released so us busybodies can know if we guessed right or not
That's a great question. And while intermix is definitely a worst case scenario, Jake cares about his engines more than most people care about their children. Now that's it home it will be nursed back to a full recovery.
As for the seller, he's a slime bucket. If you read his posts he is very specific. Nobody caught that the competent mechanic he took it to was in Oct '16 but the misfire didn't start until this February. He also states that oil consumption is 1qt/500 miles. How do you add oil without seeing intermix? You don't. This guy should be flogged.
"Maybe it's as simple as the car shop not using Joe Gibbs oil" - Seller
Yeah re-reading the ad and their comments it's hard to believe they had no idea.
I'll still give them the benefit of the doubt that it's possible that:
1) What it went in for in Oct was improperly diagnosed and developed into intermix in the mean time.
2) He didn't drive it enough between when the Intermix started and the sale to need to have added oil.
Hopefully the seller fits the "never attribute to malice what can be better be explained by stupidity" trope and wasn't using BaT like we've seen CarMax used...
^^+1. It blows my mind how blase some are with stuff like this. $100 & 15 minutes of a scan & Rennlist post would put you in a position know a lot more than the seller allegedly knew.
I will agree that in the end the seller will have a kick *** car that will likely last him a very long time with good car. Maybe a nice wax job and some plastdip on the wheels (b/c paint is for rich folk) and he'll have a car that I would be envious of.
As I said before, let's wait and see what it will take to get this car on the road and in proper condition. What shape is the rest of the drivetrain, will the $12K cover the replacement of all the coolant hose and flushing, etc? Let's wait people!
I've been flipping cars as a hobby to supplement my real car hobby and seen many things that sellers claim when they try to sell their non runners or cars that "only need...". What happened on BAT is a good example of too many assumptions. First assumption was to believe what the seller wrote.
I screwed up and made an assumption as well, when I stated the 12K price as being the worst possible figure.
So whatever it ends up at, the price will still be 12K. No "shell games' around here. When I make a statement, I stick to it, till Hell freezes over.
It doesn't matter what the engine needs, all that will come out of the buyer's pocket is 12K. That said, he hasn't "reminded" me of what I said, and didn't bind me to do this. I made that statement, and he bid on the car with that figurer as a worst case, so thats all it will cost him- even if it costs me double that figure.
When I commit, I commit. I don't run this place like a modern business, where bait, and switch are to be expected.
Very admirable as it would have been completely understandable that the $12K was only going to cover the longblock and nothing more. I'm sure most people that work on cars took it that way.
Probably so, but I didn't make a disclaimer about what it covered. Thats my fault.
Like my dad always told me "even a fish wouldn't get in trouble if he kept his mouth shut"
At the end of the day all I will gain from this one is more data for my M96 research, about what happened, why, and how it impacted the service of the engine.
That's the priceless information for a guy like me. Its what gave me the upper hand, and its how I have kept it.
I started a business solely out of anger over a bait and switch. It was the smugness in the way he delivered the increase to me. $100.00 more, his justification was it "took him more time than he expected" That little interaction is one of my few Julia Roberts BIG MISTAKE moments. I have not ran the guy totally out of business, but I have made his struggle real.
I get cranky from interactions with people in both my business, some days I feel like I am the only one left who eats it to be on the side of doing the right thing. Happy to see you doing the right thing.
The difference between a winner and a loser is a winner does what a loser does not want to do.
I have always done business like this, no matter what. It is the main reason that I hate business, though. I hate selling things. I hate people putting a price tag on minutes of life. On top of all of that, I hate money.
That said, just this week I had a huge fight on my hands, and this time I was the customer, not the vendor. Seldom do I buy anything, seldom do I pay people to do anything for me. Whether its building a shop, or a car, or fixing a pipe, or slaughtering an animal I have raised to put food on the table, I do it myself. Why? Because that way the only person that can disappoint me, is me.
So... back in January I took my German Army Kubel (VW Thing) to a local body shop for work to be done. The Army had patched up a coup of body repairs, and I wanted it to be perfect, so I took it to a guy that I went to High School with, who's been around paint and body as long as I have been around engines. He recently started his own business, so I decided to patronize him.
He gives me an estimate for 80 hours of labor, and I felt that was fair to address the issues, and re- spray the entire vehicle in the proper army colors.
The whole time we are working together he doesn't give me any updates about labor hours, and when I asked him he says "I'll make sure you get the best deal, for the best quality of work, plus a discount".
The work was finished last week, and he sends me an invoice for 262.5 hours of labor, and no discounted rates!
I completely, and totally lost my mind. I came unglued! He never gave me any updates after the estimate, and then he sends me the list of labor hours, and guess what? All but 38.5 of his hours as detailed on the invoice were covered in the 80 hour invoice, which included descriptions, and photos of the problem areas. He was trying to charge me for his lack of estimating proficiency, coupled to his slow *** employees milking the clock.
I went through the entire invoice, then line by line I dismembered it. I then agreed to pay him for the 38.5 additional hours, which were justified as additional work, in my opinion. I then shared with him the details of the Georgia Motor Vehicle Repair Act, which stated clearly what he had done wrong. He was also able to see that the 100.00 per day that he was trying to charge me for storage wasn't legal, as we were in a bonafide dispute during the storage period.
Long story short, after my 5,000 word email, my attorney and I went to inspect the completed vehicle. My attorney pulled him aside and showed him the result of the last 3 court cases that were settled on a similar topic, and let's just say that the guy gobbled up my offer.
I was completely ready to take that jackass to court and spend whatever was required to win. I have been doing business for 27 years, and have NEVER entered a court room, or had any dispute with a customer that we could not settle between ourselves during that time. When this guy tried to do this to me, I was so angry, because its exactly what we kill ourselves and lose money all the time not to do to our customers.
So, I picked up the Kubel yesterday, and I have to admit, he did a great job. I still ended up with 12K in the job, instead of 7,100.00, as estimated, but thats a hell of a lot better than the 18,000.00 that he tried to charge me!
We often make someone's final invoice before we ever start the project. 90% of those invoices never change, the other 10% change because the blown up engine was more blown up than we expected, and the changes were required, or because someone adds an option to the build themselves.
Not that I expected you to be wrong with your guess about what it needed, but the way you run your business was a key factor in making that car worth picking up. You have a solid rep for both standing behind your product and by your word. If I was the new owner I wouldn't expect there to be no overages, but I also know I could trust you to not give me a call that goes "surprise, your car is in pieces and it's now going to be double the original estimate".
You've also reiterated why many of us respect you as much as we do. Hopefully it turns on the lightbulb for at least a few.
If you have met Jake in person or had any interaction with him, all this is not surprising at all. Kudos to Jake and I look forward to seeing the engine brought back to its glorious days!
X2
never met the man in person, only through online courses but we've exchanged 100's of emails back and forth re: my 4.0 build and he was nothing but fantastic to deal with.
Now, if people would only treat me the same way.... The hardest thing about this business is trying to communicate with people, and meet expectations/ desires. It gets very old, and I often wish that all I had to do was deal with machines.
Success makes it worse... The expectations are higher, and the people we have to sniff out up front with unreal expectations gets greater and greater every year. The more it costs, the more is expected from it, as well.
Anyway, let's don't get too far off on a tangent..... Gotta keep this technically rich.
I will say that life was a hell of a lot more simple when I was building VW engines in a hog pen, with a dirt floor.
I too hope to be one of your customers one day...I have my eye on a Raby'd 996 and hope it's still available when I'm ready to pull the trigger.
Ethics is the key word of the day! I am going through an issue with an unethical realtor right now, I could wring her neck for the lies she's given.
One of the funnest cars I've owned was a 74 Baja'd Thing!
Sorry for taking so long to respond/bring everyone up to date. Life has been getting in the way.
By the sounds of it Jake has everyone up to speed on the diagnosis or at least were we're at presently. We'll know more after the motor is out of the car.
To answer some questions;
I have an invoice for the work performed in Oct - Camshaft, remove and replace, Oil Separator, remove and replace. Total with parts and labor~$3500.00. Millage at the time 99076. Mileage when I picked up the car was 101299, so the PO put ~2K miles on the car after the work done in Oct.
Did he notice the "goop" in the oil filler tube? Was it there when he added oil? Did he add oil??
.... all good questions that I don't expect to get answers to.
After meeting the PO it was pretty obvious to me that he's not "car guy" so I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.
At the end of the day, I own the car now and I'll have to deal with the expense of getting it back on the road. I'ts going to cost an amount of money to get it there and whether this turns out to be a great deal or not is really besides the point.
Not that they need another endorsement but I'll offer it anyway, Jake and his staff have been super to deal with and I can't say enough about how good that is considering my lack of experience with these cars. - Thanks again.
Someone asked earlier where the car is going to end up, well, It's my intention to bring it to Canada. I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba (find Minneapolis and look straight north by 400 miles). At this point I'm thinking I'll fly down to GA once it's ready and drive it back. Seems like a 2500 mile road trip is an appropriate way to introduce myself to the car.
That's it for now - got to get back to work....
Jake usually doesn't like to do that as he then has to charge you GA sales tax.
So you can ship it to the DC area, I'll break it in for you, then you can come see our capital and pick up the car in say 2021?
Congrats on being able to take it in stride though, many people would have come unglued by now. Turned out sending it to Jake really was the right move and you couldn't be in better hands both in that he can fix it and how he will treat you through the process.
Hopefully you'll be able to hit the road with it soon.
GL with the remainder of the restoration, KarKazy. Looks like you'll be driving a rare, powerful 996 after all is said & done.
Respect to Jake for going above & beyond to generate a good outcome for a new 996 owner. Sorry you had to go through that nonsense with the VW mechanic/friend, not to mention the incompetence of the prior owner here.
Maybe we can get a video from the new owner of a few pulls after she's healthy?
Whoever did the camshaft replacement, sucks... Cam deviations are 11 degrees.One a 3 chain engine, thats a country mile. I've set cam timing closer than that by eye, not even using the special tool (thats before the factory released the tool).
We may find that the goop in the oil filler has come from a chemical clash between two radically different oils. I have seen something similar before.
2004 40th Ann. 911 for @ $32449 USD(with a "Jake repaired" Flat6 3.8 overhauled engine) would make many in the U.S. very happy! Exchange rate is steep!
What about the rest of the car, what else besides the engine needs work? Clutch, transmission, suspension, tires, etc? The exchange rate is bad but there are also duty that needs to be paid at the border. Will the duty be based on what the car is worth with the engine fixed and not on the BAT winning bid? Technically that's what should happen. If that's the case, what's the value of this car with the engine fixed?
IMO: As you know these cars can be expensive to keep running. I didn't consider border tax and have no idea what car is worth with a proper running engine. I was addressing the "repaired" total price was not out of line for the U.S. What many people are saying down here recently: "If you don't like the rules, vote for someone who will change them." I will admit I was shocked when I looked up the exchange rate! Hopefully, the new owner is someone who really wants, can afford and will enjoy the car
It can go both ways my friend Billy. I bought a camera from Canada for around $3,000. Thought I got a great deal until UPS called about paying the customs and taxes which was around $800.00. Ouch!
Its spring. the most horrible time of the year. The time when I want to choke people on a daily basis, and sometimes I do. We hate the first warm day of the year!
The car missed a "sweet spot" that we had to disassemble it by about two weeks. We rush nothing here. The quickest way to slow us down is by trying to rush us!
:-)
Jake LOVES it when you call him every 5 minutes for an update.
He also appreciates anytime you think of something else he should do or check. Like using a roller bearing for the IMS.
It will be slow and costly to get there, but once it's done you are going to have one hell of a car
RND Engines do not utilize roller bearing IMS retrofits. These are all equipped with dual row (single row pro for the single row applications) LN Engineering Ceramic Hybrid IMS Bearings.
The RND Roller Bearing was brought back to life from my 2007 development to be offered exclusively to SSF Auto Parts. It was never intended to be fitted to RND Engines.
The engine has been removed. It may be disassembled next week, but without it being a scheduled repair, things aren't set in stone.
It would have been done this week, BUT a visiting Canadian 996 Rennlister crashed his 996 earlier this week on the Tail of The Dragon, and we spent a ton of time getting him back on the road to go home. He is leaving today, what we accomplished in 4 days was pretty amazing. Wait till he posts this story.
Heres the oil that was drained from it... it looked like diesel oil that had 20,000 miles on it. Smelled like straight fuel. Its clear that this thing ran super rich for a long time.
What's the cause/fix for the cars running so rich?
Just found out I had scored cylinder #6 and have speculated your correlation between the two items. My car had seemingly poor gas mileage along with the high oil consumption. My post about the scoring below...
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...nd-dismay.html
As a fellow Canadian I just about choked on my tongue when I found out you were. What a time to be doing this! Hopefully the work takes long enough for the dollar to rebound.
The engine is apart. The owner has been informed of the issues.
The engine was ran with less than optimum operating conditions for a long time. The internals looked fine, but will be updated to 2017 specs at the request of the owner.
I received the fuel injector report back on Friday, and 4 out of 6 injectors had a poor spray pattern. All 6 of them failed the drip test, and had bad seals.
The bock is back at LN to be stripped and re- plated. The cylinders glazed 2 full points on the roughness average scale when we tested them with the profilometer prior to shipping the block to LN. This is easy to tell when testing the virgin portions of a cylinder, where the rings do not make contact, Vs the center of the bore.
I have refused to accept further compensation from the owner, I am sticking with my "worst case" figure that I posted on BAT during the auction. We are pretty much starting over.
Fuel kills.
The buyer of the car on BAT counted on the figure that I posted during the auction when buying the car. If that figure went up, then he gets something that he didn't ask for.
I don't advertise, so I spend the money I'd (waste) advertising to do the right thing for those who deserve it.
Like many, I have my own Jake story. I also know of several similar stories where he has gone above and beyond.
He has always been far more than fair and honorable in my interactions. Jake even answers my emails when I ask stupid questions!
Count me in as another loyal "rabid" (or is that Rabyd?
) customer
This car sold for nearly $20K. Wow. That seems crazy for this vehicle knowing the issues could be really serious....just sayin'. It is a 2004, but is over 100K miles. I wouldn't pay that, even for a special edition with an upgraded motor, because it has issues. Worst case, it's now a $32K car. There are phenomenal cars out there for $32K. Just wow. Maybe he will get lucky and it won't be that horrible of a fix and I hope that's the outcome. I could be a beautiful car.
He already got lucky. He dealt with me, and I locked the price at 12K- thats all he will pay me.
No, its worth whatever someone is will to expend on it, for the happiness that it brings to them. The value of a Porsche isn't, and never has been limited to that of what some crummy "blue Book" says that it is.
I would argue that THIS will be a phenomenal car for $32k (with the known upgrade of a motor done by FSI - you just don't get that with a stock motor regardless of milage/maintenance). My bet would be that this new motor will be pretty close to bullet proof. You have to remember that these cars were almost $100k (for a nicely optioned one) new for a reason - they were really, really good - by all accounts better than previous 911's... Obviously, hindsight has proven that engine problems have diminished that shine quite a bit, but the platform itself remains excellent. A bullet proof motor makes it a "phenominal car"... Lets face it, you can easily spend $30k on the likes of a Toyota Camry...
So true--although you couldn't give me a Camry. It will be awesome. I hope he loves it and now that Jake is going to take care of him, it will be even better. Always better to be able to go in eyes wide open.
It already was, but it got in the hands of an owner(s?) that prove the rule that no matter how better you make something, there is always a better idiot out there.
From what has been described, had the POs listened to Jake when they talked to him and properly taken care of the motor, it wouldn't have been in the state that it was.
And that's the part that made this a $20k car. You're late to the game and don't appear to have studied up yet, but Jake was commenting on the auction from the beginning with what he knew of the history and what he expected the issues to be. He also (much to his chagrin in hindsight) made a "worst case" estimate of what he would charge if it was sent to him for fixing.
It's almost impossible to get a more "eyes open" deal than this one was.
Without Jake involved, that was a $15k car tops as it likely would have been a money pit to get running clean again.
$32k isn't out of the ballpark for a clean 40AE with it's original engine, so the all in price here isn't bad for a decent car with a zero worries motor in it.
The "grumpy old men" are the ones who understand that, the older they/we get the less time they/we have to do whatever it is that they/we have to do. I don't think it's a reduction of "tolerance" in general, but a reduction of tolerance for B.S.
I had read the BaT threads before posting, and just hope that the new owner is as pleased with his new car that I am with mine. I wasn't criticizing, just saying I didn't think the deal was that great--it still isn't in my opinion, fair maybe, but not great, but that doesn't matter as long as the owner is happy and it sounds like he is thrilled. A bullet proof car is worth a lot of peace of mind and resale, but some people don't care about resale (like the dude who drove his 250K mile car to death) and that's OK, too. I happen to be one who is concerned with resale as well as overall drivability. My "eyes wide open" was a fair comment as the issues were clearly discussed in the posting on BaT. As long as the buyer is prepared, and in this case he is well-prepared, and excited about the car, it's all good and how it should be. Can't wait to hear about it when it is all fixed up!
These cars are "worth" what someone will pay for them. The estimated market values don't mean a damn thing.
I see cars in the private market sell for 8-12K more than book value all the time.
Put a price on it, if it doesn't sell its either too cheap, or too expensive. Cheap stuff doesn't sell, either.
Wait, isn't this a 40AE with a 4.0L FSI engine? How in the hell would that not be worth $32k+. The engine alone is almost worth that much. The buyer got a heck of a deal. If you love 911's this is one of the best you can get at any price. Well, next to an early '99 with a 3.8L track package of course.
So, It's been quite an adventure getting this car back to life. Lots of unforeseen damage, logistical nightmares, and just plain bad luck.
That being said, I'm happy to report that I finally got it into Canada last week and finished with all the importation/registration paperwork this afternoon.
It's currently sitting at my office, insured, plated and despite being a little dusty, waiting for me to happily take it home for the first time.
Thanks everyone for the great advise - immediately after purchasing the car I sent it to Jake and did exactly what he told me to.
To his credit he honored his word and charged me exactly what he said he would despite the extent of the damage.
Furthermore he went far beyond my expectation to ensure the car is perfect.
Jake and his team were great to deal with and I wouldn't hesitate in recommending them to anyone.
At the end of the day I couldn't be happier and am looking forward to many years of smiles and miles.
Thank you Jake, I'm disappointed I didn't make it to GA to say that in person, perhaps I'll have to go for a long drive one day soon (after the break-in period - of course).
I haven't forgotten about the steak dinner I owe you.
Cheers
Chris (Winnipeg Canada)
Slow day at work so.... read through this entire thread AND the one at BaT. Only because: Jake Raby! You got a winner here. But .... from drop-off at FSI to arrives in Canada, one whole year? Details! The break-in advice. The drive home. Details! Please!
Karcrazy,
You were great to work with. Together we overcame the things that created challenges that no one expected when we began this journey.
Everyone else:
Yes, this took one year. This is not out of the ordinary, as our schedule stays at one year and has for over a decade. It shows no signs of slowing down, even though Jake has told me to purposely slow the schedule, and accept less work. That is hard to do.
This car came to us as a "work in". We never expected that it would require a complete disassembly, but when it did, we had to give it our next available scheduled slot. In this scenario from that point it only took 9 months, which is because we had a slot open. This is a rare thing here, it usually does not happen. We never rush, and nothing here is about quantity.
We are no longer accepting "work in" jobs, because they almost always end up being just like Karkrazy's situation, where they end up being more than expected. We just put builds at the end of the line, and they take as long as they take. With a scheduled completion, we never disappoint.
Jud
No scoring. It takes diamond hones to cut Nikasil, pistons, or rings won't accomplish this.
The engine had ran so rich, so long that the oil was extremely diluted by fuel, and the internals all suffered. The oil filler tube, as well as the AOS vent hose were both cracked, thus effecting the crankcase vacuum. This results in rich running.
This is also why changing the AOS multiple times did not result in any benefits. The oil filler tube was removed in 2 pieces, as an example.
The engine was nasty inside, all the internals were black, and the oil that came from the engine looked like it was drained from a diesel. The oil smelled so rich with fuel that it could be detected in the building next door when the oil was drained. The engine was ran this way for a long time, and was misdiagnosed, and mi- repaired many times, with the underlying condition never being addressed.
On top of that, 4 out of the 6 fuel injectors had failed, and would not hold pressure at shutdown. This further lead to rich running, and fuel intrusion into the oil. The engine had no chance of long term survival had we not taken it apart. Fuel is solvent, and it increases wear. Through all of that the IMS and the cylinders fared better than we would expect with such low viscosity oil, and fuel intrusion.
At the end of the day we kept our word, and in the process we lost over 10K out of Jake's pocket. We told the owner what a worst case would be during the BAT auction, and we held to that. Karkrazy tried to pay us more, but Jake would not allow that.
This was a huge learning adventure for us. The biggest thing we learned is that we can't support an engine that was built 9 years ago, and has been through 3 hands since we had last seen it.With the car being on BAT with a problem, it put all of the focus on US, and not on the people who actually created the problem. This pretty much forced us into stepping up to the plate, and doing what no one else would ever do. Business at the top isn't fun, or fair.
Karkrazy was exceptional to work with, but this was an eye- opener for us. Thank goodness he was so easy to work with, and understanding. Like Jake said, "we ended up with a great friend, and believer through all of the lost money, and that's what matters".
agree.
I wonder if it was initially the fuel injectors and then the oil tube damaged by someone trying to fix the issue. Seems though someone should have caught the nasty black oil during the regular oil change intervals and wondered why it was that bad. I learned something important and will definitely now will keep that in mind every time i change the oil.
No, the oil filler tube was patched with duct tape.. Someone knew it was cracked, but they had no concept of how the AOS and crankcase vacuum work. Crankcase vacuum leaks increase fuel trim, and induce rich running.
Also, all 4 O2 sensors were failing.
Fuel is the #1 contributor to longevity with these engines. a leaky 20 dollar pipe can kill a million dollar engine. In this case, it was two hoses, one split all the way around the diameter. People think that just because its not leaking oil, that its ok.. Its leaking air, and that's the issue.This is why a manometer is used to ensure the health of the engine as a whole, when it comes to vacuum leaks.
They were superb in remotely diagnosing a problem with a Porsche part in my engine, even though I was not the original purchaser of the engine. Exceptional people!
Can you tell us how you know the O2 sensors were failing? Assuming they weren't throwing codes, what data (for example, from a Durametric cable) would tell you these were failing?
I am keenly interested in the "rich running" issues with these cars. My last UOA had no fuel, and my trim levels are good. I would like to keep it that way.
The output voltage was way off. In this particular case we had codes for two of the 4 sensors upon reinstallation of the repaired engine.
Most every car we see these days needs a new MAF, crank sensor, O2 sensors, and injectors. Our work has become a lot more difficult over the past 3 years or so. Sensors are dying on a daily basis now. Soon a new sensor package will be a required option with 100% of our engines.
