2007 997 C2 motor into my 2002 996 C4 (IMS Failure)

Woohoo! I finally won a (wrecked) at auction so now I'm about to start the transplant. This is the Vin - WP0CA29957S7xxxxx. Naturally, I have questions so I'm hoping some of y'all can help me out. Apologies if I'm asking the same old questions but I have actually been reading posts voraciously for the past few weeks and I'm not altogether finding the best answers. Biggest question : IMS - I believe I'll be doing a replacement but I can't tell until I pull the motor, right? My 02 came from a good home with 40k on the clock, babied, always garaged and dealer maintained but at 70k, kahblooey. Maybe it was because i was heading up to a NASCAR race? I'm intending to keep my power steering and AC intact - seems like that's the easiest way to go? Any advantage to using the 07 ones in my car? On the 07, the bolts holding the AC and power steering pump in place are like a reversed torx(?) - what are they called so I can buy the correct tool? The 02 mounts look to be identical but with regular bolts so I'm hoping I'll be able to remount my originals. Spin on filter assembly? Any pointers there? I haven't seen too much discussion on that. Parts I should replace when I pull the 07 motor? I'm assuming the basics would be the belt, plugs and injectors, anything else? My coolant expansion bottle showed up today so that's going in too. The wreck has 3 good wheels but they've got a wheel lock on them. Is there a registry for those someplace? They're like a larger version of the "reverse tork" but with a ton of edges. I don't know if they're a Porsche standard or some after market. Take a look and let me know what you think. Thanks for all of the helpful stuff I've found on here over the last few years.

Sorry about the lost motor. 2007 C2s should all have the larger 997-spec bearing. The transition year(s) included some with the weak mk2 single row, but I don't think it lasted until 07. The swap is doable but requires some refitting of peripherals from what I understand. There's an active member that just put a 3.8L m97 into an mk1 996, he might be able to give some pointers.

Talk to Lowpue, he is the one that just installed the 997 engine in a 996.

Congrats! Have you looked throughout the car for the lug key? What's a 997 roller go for these days?

I've spent almost two years trying to get a 3.8l but got outbid many times. This one was a buy it now for $12k. Figured I might be able to sell some of it to recoup some costs but there's not much of the body in good shape on this one. It looks like it spun out, dinged up all four corners

Thanks, I'll do a search on that name. Appreciate the pointers...

Yes, checked though it. No sign. I'll do another root around over the next few days. It did have the owners manual etc in the glove box tho! Worst case, I'll try drilling it out just to salvage the wheels. Three are in good shape, the 4th is toast, might make a good wall ornament.

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the wheel lock socket key is located in the frunk, underneath the mat, lift it up and you will see the round slot it sits in.

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Hey colmfmurphy...I am here. My car was in the shop for over half a year..... Here is a view of some of the changes....not comprehensive. Bottom line is talk to Charles Dundon at Dundon Motorsports in Gig Harbor. There is a complete rewiring of the harness and a bunch of other stuff....but Charles will give you pin out. Here is the car on the track...was awesome

Looks like he's swapping a 3.6 for a 3.6, as this is a 996.2. I started asking these questions on a previous project, but ended up not transplanting into a 996. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-m96-05-a.html There may be some valuable info in there. Jake chimes in at post #11

The bolts are External Torx or E-Torx. You can usually remove the security socket lug bolts by smashing a tight fitting socket onto them (destructively) and turning it off. Good luck!

You may be able to swap without modifying the harness or DME. I would consider retaining all original sensors, harness, fuel system, intake manifold, throttle body.. basically just swap long blocks.

Yanno, yesterday I checked thru the car but totally forgot to lift the floor in the frunk. I'll get to that later today. Thanks!

Wow! I'm hoping not to have to go through all of that! I will get in touch to talk about the harness issue, unless you can answer? What did or did not work when you swapped the motor? Was there a specific reason to fabricate a new harness?

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Sounds like a good plan! I like demo! :-)

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Having the two cars side by side (-ish) will give me that option. I'm hoping this won't turn into a nightmare, my much better half will string me up!!

I believe if you are doing a 997.1 engine into a 996.2 you have no impact to harness and DME or anything else for that matter. Again, a quick call to Charles will answer that for sure. I did a 997.1 swap to a 996.1 which requires significantly more work.

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Is there that much difference in the motors and how they work? I was hoping (initially) to simply plug and play but maybe I was being just a tad optimistic?

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My fingers, toes and everything else are crossed... I'll call them. Thanks!

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In my opinion, this is the best possible situation. Having both vehicles side by side allows you to see exactly the differences. Worst case you do a full swap of everything from one to the other - you have all of the parts. The 996.1 to later is messy, and I also opted to not go that route. Doable, but tons to deal with including cluster, climate control, different DME, different wiring looms, return-less fuel system. I have my fingers crossed that your 996.2 to newer engine is going to be a ton easier.

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Should be a cakewalk since it's already been done by Lowpue as mentioned earlier.

With all due respect, I believe Dundon Motorsports did the work, and it was extensive. Newer motors have been put into the 996.1 for years, but its always a big job. Not for the faint of heart or anyone on a tight budget.

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You are right...this was a major undertaking and costly....however, some of the changes I had to do was to put in 996.2 components such as instrument cluster,ABS pump, HVAC controller and some other stuff that was compatible with 997.1 engine/DME. SO it should be a lot simplier for 996.2 to 996.1. But again, Dundon can answer this quickly and let you know what you need to change.

Did you ever have the post the dyno numbers?

Yeah....I need to do it.

Did you reach your goals of matching GT3 power?

Here is the comparison with a 996 GT3

awesome

Not too shabby

Still needs some tuning but I will do that next winter when the season is over....Its not quite at beating a 997.1 GT3 which is still my goal....need to eak out another 10HP I think to get there.

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what size injectors you running ?

997S stock injectors I believe....started with 996 injectors but power was lower if I recall....but Charles Dundon would know for sure.

OP, keep us posted on your swap progress. I'm interested to see what your discover with compatibility of the two cars. I'm sure you'll know more than most of us could tell you once you have the motors out and side by side.

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I will keep you updated. We're quite busy with summer stuff at the moment and I bought a substitute convertible (Fiat 124 Abarth) so I'm not rushing into it. I've collected some of the new parts I going to put in and waiting on some more. I'm taking photos too. Hopefully it's all gonna work out...

Update on the progress... First thing I learned was I'm never going to do this again... I do have some photos and scraped knuckles and a whole lot of things not to do if there ever is a next time. Good thing is, the 997 motor fired up straightaway when I got it all back together. 997.1 motor fits perfectly, runs well with minor issues. Some of the emmission hoses don't match but with some locally sourced adapters, they all seem to be good. Biggest issue I have right now is the SAI is throwing a CEL on cold starts. The SAI on the 997.1 is mounted under the intake manifold; on the 996.2, its a separate pump on the left rear corner of the engine compartment. I'm trying to get a wiring diagram for the two electrical connectors on the 997 motor so I can "hot wire" the 996 SAI connector in and hopefully that will take care of everything. I do remember seeing a post with that pin out diagram somewhere over the last year but I cannot find it at the moment. So, anyone got a wiring diagram for those plugs?

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I am sure they had to do this with my car....Call Charles Dundon. :-) BTW...super impressive that you got it done. Congrats!

The Bentley manual has the pinouts in the wiring diagrams at the back. Alldata (alldatadiy.com - subscription based online manuals) has them as well. You'd likely need both the donor motor year and the recipient motor year manuals to suss this out. I've done motor transplant wiring work on prior cars and it is a tedious and sometimes time consuming process, but very reasonable to do if you remain patient, logical and methodical. I'd love to see a detailed 997 motor to 996.2 chassis step by step article. This could be a good option for the DIY folks out here when we end up with rollers. It's a shame if every person that does it has to reinvent the wheel figuring the details out.

I'll pm him. Thanks.

Yeah, not a fan of spending $150 on two manuals just to find one pin on one connector. Someone on one of the forums will have the info I'm sure. That $300 will do me much better going towards replacing the head unit...

"I'd love to see a detailed 997 motor to 996.2 chassis step by step article." Actually, I've not found much difference between the two motors. In my case, my car is a C4, the donor was a C2 so I had to split the transmission. Both were tiptronic Mercedes type. Most of the info on the forums revolved around manual trannies so there is quite a bit of difference in how they are mated to the engine. Once I got that info, the rest was fairly straightforward. I replaced the RMS, plugs/wires belt, etc but other than that, there isn't much to do. I did buy a water pump but I returned it when the one on the 997 looked cleaner than the new one!! Dealing with all of the extensive oil. gas and water plumbing around the car was the slowest painful part, both taking it out and putting it back. In hindsight, I should have thought more about the SAI pump wiring since I had removed it from the 996 since the 997 didn't have one... or so I thought. It would have been much much easier to trace the wiring on the 997 SAI (which is mounted under the intake on the block) with the engine out of the car and simply hot wire the 996 wiring to the correct pin on the 997 motor. As I say, hindsight... there's no friggin way I'm pulling the motor just to trace that wiring now though so I'm hoping some kind hearted soul will know where that info is and pass it on... As for collecting info, perhaps the mods on the forum could add a folder where all of the related messages could be added so at least of the info is in one place? "997 into 996" or something similar. It's been a mostly fun trip and I certainly enjoyed some of the process along the way but my daughter and I did have some very frustrating moments that make us both sure that we don't have any intention of doing this again. In retrospect, I could have sold mine and picked up a newer (IMS repaired) one for less than we've spent so far. That being said, I'm looking forward to getting this baby back on the road. I already have some road trips that my much better half and I are looking forward to over the next 6 months.

I can run down the wiring on the 996.2 side for you (I have both the Bentley manual and access to Alldata for the 2002), but I don�t have a 997 manual/wiring diagram, so I can�t help on that end. Maybe someone in the 997 forum could help us? Private message me if I can help. Maybe we could work together and donate our findings back to Rennlist for future motor swappers?...

my old car 2001 with 3.6 from from 2005 with boltons , i put proefi "plug and pay" harness , i miss this car so much but it gave me hell , car was pulling very hard but my tuner never had time and the proefi is not easy to tune the sad part i got pissed off and parted out the car , but what i've learned is that its much cheaper to give someone to build custom wire harness and put something like haltch and done , the 3,6 and 3.8 have great power plant but if you don't do the the variocam right stay away , You Tube

The 996.2 end is actually easy because the blower is located on the left side of the engine compartment and is fed from a local connector there. It's the 997 side I need. I'll post again over there and see if anyone turns it up. Thanks for the offer!