47 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHV8 Swap into a perfectly good 996?
Leading reported evidence
Replace 996 cars seem
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The LSx swapped 996 cars seem to be valued around the 30k range.
Leading evidence: 'Replace 996 cars seem' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Replace 996 cars seem' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
In California, you can do engine swaps, but the engine production date for post 1975 model vehicle swaps must be as new as the model vehicle year of the vehicle that's to be swapped into, and of course all emission controls for that year must be in place.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I like the idea of LS swaps, but not for a perfectly good running 996...
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
My uneducated guess is that you'd have to swap the cam and timing chain cover (I could be wrong) to run an opti.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
In California, you can do engine swaps, but the engine production date for post 1975 model vehicle swaps must be as new as the model vehicle year of the vehicle that's to be swapped into, and of course all emission controls for that year must be in place.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
I'm not talking just a drag race either, but a full test driving it in traffic A/C on, canyon carving, and some lap times on a tight and longish road course.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
As far as registration and emissions worries, this would likely be a "Home Made Specially Constructed or Kit Vehicles" registration (like you'd pursue with a salvage vehicle that gets rebuilt using a Smyth ute kit).
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
47 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T122219Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
This is a potentially VERY long story; I'll add details below instead of junking up the OP. Here goes:
I have come into possession of what I believe to be an exceptionally built small-block V8 built to what I'd call streetable race spec. Because the gentleman who built it does not have a computer nor a phone that takes pictures, I won't have the full specs until I can get up the mountain and drag it from his shop to my garage.
Assuming it's the right size and the right weight (all I know is that it's a 4-bolt main 350 (originally) V8), I am seriously contemplating pulling the M96 out of my '99 and replacing it with the new one. Odd wiring issues aside, I love the 996 and the M96 is the one thing that
could
cause me to have to part ways with the car.
So, wouldja?
Why the hell not? It would be a fun project and would give you a whole different driving experience. Not sure if he's on here but White Out from the MI based forum I'm on did a V8 swap a long time ago and said he really enjoyed the car with it's new heart.
I don't know that I would do it to a perfectly good 996 though. Would probably rather find a roller with a detonated motor or something as the transplant.
No.
The builder has no computer or smart phone so very likely the engine is of the cast iron block (and heads) variety and thus heavy.
I note too you live in CA so good luck getting the car smogged/registered unless you are planning on using the car strictly off road.
Macsters emissions point would be my main issue. I know in TX I could get away with it once the car reaches a certain age, but things are different on the Left Coast. Having said that, I would absolutely consider it in a situation where I had an potentially significant engine issue.
Smog-Smog-Smog. Have you guys seen his location in his avatar? Maybe he wants a track monster? If not, sell it or put it in the Vette and sell the old Vette engine. However, since he must be made out of money...i.e. So. Cal. maybe just store it for the future.
I'm aware of the emissions issue, and a weigh-in will of course be the first item on the docket.
Assuming it's not absurdly heavy (it's a small-block V8, not a Chrysler 440), I'm willing to deal with the smog hassles. An iron small-block weighs in at just 48 pounds more than an aluminum LSx - but the heads and some of the ancillaries can double the number to about a hundred pounds. That's not an insurmountable number, but I'd certainly want to make sure the suspension is able to handle the weight and the change in power delivery.
As far as registration and emissions worries, this would likely be a "Home Made Specially Constructed or Kit Vehicles" registration (like you'd pursue with a salvage vehicle that gets rebuilt using a Smyth ute kit). Otherwise, it would be (nearly) impossible to get the car registered for highway use.
You don't need to be made of money to bolt a lump of metal into something that already has a different lump of metal bolted into it, but I would want to do the job properly. The revenue generated from selling the healthy M969 would certainly help take a bite out of hardware costs.
The new motor may be built around an ancient block, but it's a modern build with electronic ignition and timing control (I wouldn't want to wind up sitting on the side of the road trying to suck crud out of a carburetor jet)...
I am by no means convinced this is the right course of action - I need to see the motor, spend a day talking to the guy about the motor, get it home, pull off the sheet metal and ogle, and - if it doesn't come with sheets - get it dynoed. I'm definitely not going to install anything unless I know it runs and I know what kind of power to expect from it.
Plan E: Find someone selling a roller speedboat, drop it in, and play on the lake with it for a couple of years...and THEN decide whether to refresh it and stuff it into one of the cars.
At this point, pretty much all I know for certain is I have to find some way to use it - it will be an obsession until it's installed and running in SOMETHING. I've been dreaming intermittently for about 10 years about what I'd do if I won one of them...so this is a good problem to have.
The engine could be a 1970s to 1990s tradition iron engine, so I'd wait to see what it is.
I like the idea of LS swaps, but not for a perfectly good running 996...
That said, if you are looking for more power and want a fun project, that's different. By the time you are finished with the swap, your car would be faster and you could sell the flat-6 to someone else who could use it.
If it's not an LSx mill, but is instead an earlier generation mill, the answer is "No." The reasons that quickly come to mind are:
1. Weight differential due to the cast iron block and heads.
2. Resale value. Should you choose to sell the car in the future, the potential buyers' pool just got a lot shallower due to lack of desirability of an older generation engine swap. The LSx swapped 996 cars seem to be valued around the 30k range. It's probably unlikely that you'll get near that for an older gen sbc swap.
3. The following is based on foggy recollection of research that I did when I was first interested in doing a swap on my 99' cab. In California, you can do engine swaps, but the engine production date for post 1975 model vehicle swaps must be as new as the model vehicle year of the vehicle that's to be swapped into, and of course all emission controls for that year must be in place. You will have to see a DMV referee for an inspection to okay the final swap.
4. Your late C4 is an LT1 or LT4 car. You currently have an opti-spark ignition, aluminum heads and reverse flow cooling design. The older gen sbc has a distributor mounted to the rear of the intake. My uneducated guess is that you'd have to swap the cam and timing chain cover (I could be wrong) to run an opti. You'd also need to put your lt f.i. intake on the engine, which would alter the builder's more than likely tried-and-true parts combination for maximum output and driveability. And I'm really not even certain that the water jackets on the f.i. intake will line up properly with the earlier design heads. I just don't know. But then again, it's based on speculation on which variation of sbc it is. My guess is that a 12k dollar sbc will come with great internal components, as well as warmed over aftermarket aluminum heads.
Anyway, congrats on the win. I'd sell the engine. If you got 10k out of it, a combination of Renegade parts and Whiteout's methods and parts preferences for the swap would probably leave you with little to no out of pocket pain. Your 996 engine would more than cover the LSx mill costs. I think the 996/LSx combination would be a grin-inducing creature every time you mashed the fun pedal.
What's the scope of effort needed to throw it in the C4 vette? That chassis would probably handle the new power plant better both in terms of power delivery & weight distribution.
The idea to sell it to fund a RH LS-swap is intriguing, same goes for a voluntary FSI rebuild on your m96 that could come in as low as ~$15k? if the engine is healthy going in.
Lots of options, that's why I voted to wait & decide once options are researched.
Tony, there are a number of other considerations. If the built will take boost well, the 'Vette makes more sense. Once I know the numbers, it'll be easier to know what is/isn't appropriate.
The idea of an older block doesn't frighten me especially...the tech in my Corvette is 20 years older than what's going to come installed on the new engine.
If it just doesn't make sense to try to use in either car, I can accept that, but from my admittedly brief conversation, it doesn't sound like either would be a problem. He was already making a mental list (new oil pan, headers) when I mentioned the Corvette possibility.
Just selling the engine is of course an option, but the more I find out about the engine and the builder, the less inclined I am to dump it. I'll share that info when I have it.
I'd lean toward "sell it and do something stupid," unless you don't really want another car. The proceeds would likely be enough for a great start on a street/autocross/DE 986, which sounds to me like Big Stupid Fun.
If you don't want to add another car, dropping it into the Vette sounds promising, also. Seems like you're less likely to upset the weight balance of a Corvette ... it's a lot closer to a straight horsepower transfusion. Selling the LT1 would offset some other costs like a brake upgrade, which I assume you might need after adding lots of HP. And maybe a nice new set of used tires ;-)
At this point, though, more data would be a good thing.
Rejiggering some travel plans so I can (hopefully) pick up and stash the goods on our way to Tahoe next weekend.*
*Where we'll be squatting in some vacant house in the South Tahoe Keys. It's not every week you get to vacation in a place described as "the most environmentally damaging intrusion on the lakeshore in Lake Tahoe's human history."
That's why they're so cheap! Like the used land mines I bought off a gentleman behind Walmart over the weekend. Good deals can be had..., if you're crazy enough.
ding-ding-ding.
Even if it's one of the alum block and heads Chebby I say no. If it's an LT1 with some tech info on the build, maybe. Likely no, though.
Sand rail.
http://www.sandrocket.com/
I drove one a while back. Perfect for SoCal. Glamis is calling.
Will loosen bowels in case you had the cheese log and Matso.
Now that I�ve taken delivery of the motor, it�s not appropriate for the 996; i�m not willing to give up air conditioning and power steering and I don�t want to hang those accessories on a motor that doesn�t need them. I think the plan will be to find a 1975 or older roller that would make a good recipient for a V-8 swap and find myself a project car.
That's a nice smallblock. What size heads are those? Eldebrock made a couple sizes, mostly for street. What crank and rods? I agree - any old 1920s through 1970s car/truck would be fine. I had something similar to this in my 1968 Nova. It will fit many different Chevy-style cars. The only thing to watch out for is the oil pan and pickup. Try to get one with a deep sump and baffles.
Having watched Tyler Hoover's videos on YouTube, it surprises me a) how little instruction Renegade Hybrids give you and b) how much metal you have to cut out of the car to make a Gen III smallblock fit.
Yeah, sounds like an opportunity for someone to productize this. Same thing that happened with the guy and company that put a manual in a GT3RS. Granted, there's not much of a market, but still, you would have though that's the whole reason for a kit in the first place.
I have two vettes and two P cars so I really am downsizing. My detailer did a nice job on the 35 year old paint but the 78 is really a 10 footer. I can't wait to see how he can make the 996 glow.
I am not surprised on how hard engine swaps are. I've never seen a "bolt on" that was as simple as advertised. Once you put the real costs on paper complete with details reality becomes shocking. I was going to build a cobra kit until I did my due diligence. I have four cool cars for less.
A post here by someone who had talked to Renegade said they quoted him $30k to do the whole swap. Not sure what was included.
So yeah...not as cheap as an FSI, depending on what you calculate your own time is worth on a DIY. That is unless you go with the 3.8 Track Performer + like someone we know...
This begs an interesting comparison.
LS swapped 996 vs. build Raby 996. I'm not talking just a drag race either, but a full test driving it in traffic A/C on, canyon carving, and some lap times on a tight and longish road course. I'm also not talking best lap time either, but like a 5 lap or 10 lap average. In raw power the V8 will have an advantage, but in lap time maybe not, especially after 5 or 6 laps of roasting tires on corner exit or maybe it'll just dominate all around. I'd love to see the comparison to know.
I have a feeling many would be surprised at the outcome all around. To me there are a lot of engine swaps that make sense, but so far I'm not convinced that a 996 is the correct chassis for it. I plan to keep mine eternally flat 6 powered, but I'm silly like that.
I'm also going to buy an FD RX7 and leave it rotary powered! So that alone should convince anyone I'm looney. I guess that probably means I sorta fit in around here though.
Looney isn't all bad.
The SBC is begging for a stripped out early Camaro with a cut down rear-end and 11" slicks and a $10k paint job. Just a Saturday night cruiser.
After all he does live in So. Cal.!
I think it's a classic case of people being attracted by the costs of the motor (and the costs of the kit) and thinking, hey, that's easy!
Turns out, it isn't.
right!!!
quit wasting time on a car that is appoaching 20 years, and with known insurmountable engine problems (or which requires thousands of dollars invested to ATTEMPT to fix a factory problem).
Get a newer model problem-free Porsche or other car that you do not need to tiptoe around, OR buy a real classic earlier Porsche.... not the inferior 996 that we spend endless hours on this forum trying to justify and defend.
Speaking of flawed hueristics:
Great idea, quit wasting time on a 20yo car & buy a 30yo car! Or a 10yo car that needs its engine case split to put a permanent IMS bearing in it. Quite the cognitive turd here.
This is hilarious. Really needed that laugh today.
So the permanent solution is not a true solution? The 997.1 isn't 20 years old yet, maybe that would be a more viable newer option?
On a long enough timeline, all threads devolve into senseless bickering over the merits behind tangents designed to trigger the delicate sensibilities of bored, slightly OCD posters.
"In the long run, we are all dead." --John Maynard Keynes
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Hitler approaches 1." --Mike Godwin
"Eventually, all threads are IMS threads." --Rennlist's 996 Forum
Good ones. I have another:
"Most people that have ever lived are dead. We are all just dead people that haven't died yet." - Louis c.k.
Back on topic, though, I still think keeping the flat-6 in place makes the most sense, followed by, "buy a Turbo," and then if the engine catastrophically fails, consider an LS engine.
"
Get a newer model problem-free Porsche".
Lolz, how I laughed. Given that 997.1's are even worse than 996's in the engine dept, that's more than a bit ironic.
[sarcasm] I may sound bitter, but my C2 Cabrio Tiptronic just ingested an exhaust valve -
SEAT
- in the last 3 weeks - but I'm not really. [/sarcasm] €12k to fix, and it's either that or dump the car. When was the last time you hear of ANY car lose a valve seat ? 89k miles, and minded the the proverbial baby.
Note the sign in the dealer service Department in GA last week. Irony doesn't even come close: I assume that starting their Quality Statement with a caveat is indicative of no confidence. I assume the engine is just one of those items which didn't benefit from the rigours of the R & D it esposes. Unless of course, R & D stands for Research & Destroy.
Right now any kind of motor that would tranplant into a 996 would be A Good Idea. I'll just go an un-mothball my 2001 Audi TT with twice the mileage of the 996, and is still better built, and run that 'til the engine is ready.
Frankly, if I could, I 'd just buy a complete Corvette, and crush the 996.
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
