996 competitors?

Are there any other cars out there for under $25k that can compete with the 996 in terms of fun and excitement, and general joy? I've had a 2001 C4 for about 6 months and love it, but the dealer is buying it back. Before I dive back into another another 996 I'd like to take a look at some other cars that might provide a similar experience for the price. I'm looking at the 987 of course, and the S2000. Any others worth considering?

Wait, what do you mean by the dealer is buying it back after 6 months?

I would consider the 2007 BMW MCoupe (e46) , fantastic to drive , very robust M3 motors ( unlike the m96) , 50/50 weight balance , 330 hp and easy to soup up. when they come down a bit more I'd like to supercharge one http://www.vfengineering.com/other-bmw/z4m/ , fit ohlins coilovers fat swaybars and heavier plates in the stock lsd .

Miata.

E46 M3 Nissan 370z

Depends upon what you are looking for in a vehicle. There are tons of amazing vehicles in the sub $25K range. Are you looking for something to take to the drive in, daily drive, autocross, DE, road race, go on long tours, tear up mountain roads, haul the family, go off roading, etc? It is hard to put my finger on it, but if there was a measurement called "overall driving experience", I'd rate the 996.2 911 C2 coupe at the top of the heap for under $25K. But then again, for me it is a fun car, we have SUVs and a wagon for family hauling, towing, long trips, camping and daily driver use. The 911 is a nice weather car that I can take out when I want a performance oriented ride or to do a driving event. When I had one car, the Audi S4 worked well (we have to deal with snow/ice in our daily drive, so the AWD is a necessity in my book). I don't see a location for you, but if you live in more moderate climate, the BMW M3 might be a nice option. To me, it all depends on personal preferences and intended use, I can see how other cars might check your boxes if you had different criteria.

No. There are no substitutes. Get another, and unless you�re tracking it get a Cabriolet.

Lotus Elise. I will say the two happiest days of my car life were the day I bought my Elise and the day I sold it. But it is in that price range.

I would recommend the Subaru BRZ except for one problem: no torque. I test drove a new one and loved it generally, and it even has more trunk and rear seat space than you'd think, but it really feels like it has no power unless you rev it very hard. On paper, it will do 0-60 in 6.1 seconds, but it really feels like it does that in 9 or 10 seconds in normal driving. A BRZ with a turbo or supercharger added, however, would almost certainly be pretty damn awesome (and a very nice car to drive daily like the 996, though not as nice as a 996).

I'd recommend an e46 m3, but be forewarned they need chassis reinforcement even if you don't drive hard and don't plan on doing events. Also, if rod bearings haven't been done budget doing them, and the VANOS as well. Great platform once you put $5kish into it to address the critical failure points. I'd suggest an 09+ base cayman in that price range. Porsche experience, solid motor, entertaining performance.

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I'm surprised to hear this. Although Lotus certainly had a long history of reliability issues, I actually thought the Elise's were pretty reliable. Totally impractical, of course, but I thought mostly fairly reliable.

If you want to go a little older, maybe the pre-1990's BMW 635CSI's. My brother had one in period and it was great to drive -- though I'm not totally sure how it would feel today. His had the European close-ratio 5-speed and that transmission I think was a big factor in making it fun to drive (don't think an automatic would be as fun). The M6's from that period have gone up a lot, but the 635CSI's can be had at very reasonable prices. This autotrader search is for manual transmission cars only -> https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/BMW/M6/New+York+NY-10109?zip=10109&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&firs tRecord=0&endYear=2001&modelCodeList=M6%2C635CSI%2C633CSI&makeCodeList=B MW&searchRadius=0&transmissionCodes=MAN

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The settlement is not final yet so I don't want to say much about it, incase they want a confidentiality or non-disparagement agreement.

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I'm considering a Cab. There's been a few on Bring a Trailer recently.

My 911 is the best sports car I've owned since my E30 M3. Get another, IMHO nothing comes close for the money. The E46 M3 is close but still..........

My Elise was supercharged and completely reliable but it's a bit tough to live with and my wife hated it. Getting in and out, the attention it gets, and the cabin noise is just something you have to get used to. I looked on car gurus and the only two Elise I found under $25k were both salvage title. The rest seemed to be $30k+. However it was an awesome sports car and I learned to drive on the track in mine. After that all other cars seemed almost anemic compared to the telepathic feel of driving the Elise. The BRZ/FRS is also fun car to drive but the only one I've driven was supercharged. Id say turbo or SC are almost a must if you like to go fast, at least for me. A 2012 Boss 302 is a very fun car to drive, believe it or not. And you can probably find one for around $25k in great condition if you get lucky. The '13's go for about ~$5k more. These are underrated IMO and often looked over just because it's a 'stang. You are also in the price range of a nice, clean, C5 Z06. I had a 2003 and it was nice but the stock seats suck and the steering is no where near 911 quality, nor was the shifter. But you can make these very fun and fast cars. But if you really enjoyed the 996 I would again put it at the top of the list. You can probably find a nice one if you are patient and lucky enough.

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Nothing wrong with tracking a Cab, other than the fact that a lot of places restrict Cabs, which I understand, but think it�s too bad. It means folks can�t track a Boxster either, which is one of the best tack Cars you can get. Cab 996s are not much heavier, and although they aren�t as stiff as a coupe, they are still darn fast and can probably keep up with a coupe anyway. I�ve tracked mine

I bought my 996 for $17,600, so here are other cars on the list for even lower cost comparisons: BMW E36 M3 Ford Mustang Fox Body Mazda Miata Acura Integra Ford Focus SVT TOYOTA 86/Subaru BRZ Volkswagen Golf GTI Mini Cooper S However, many of these cars are a similar price point to the 996, so the 996 is still King of this price if you can afford taking the risk of repairs: Plenty Of Receipts Sorry Can�t Have Everything

There was a time when you could buy a Ferrari Mondial 3.2 for around $25k, now it's a bit more difficult, though maybe still possible. Mondials are a lot like 996's, they are incorrectly considered an inferior model, which results in crazy-cheap valuations to those who know. There are 4 models of the Mondial, the 8, the QV, the 3.2, and the "t". The Mondial 8 was not great, the electrical system was overloaded and the engine was strangled by emission controls of the day. The QV was much better in reliability and performance, and the 3.2 was better still in both areas. The "t" is the fastest, but it shares the active suspension and other complexities of the 348 and it has smaller side vents and eliminates the fender flares of the prior models (which could be a minus or a plus depending on individual taste). The big expense with maintaining the V8 Ferraris is the timing belts every 3/5 years, which is pricy to have done but cheap if you DIY. Other than belt maintenance, the engines are very bulletproof and the cars are very reliable (not joking). I had a Mondial 3.2 for 10 years and it was probably the best car I've owned in terms of overall enjoyment. I liked that Mondial more every time I got in it. The 996 is a close second, for the same reason. The biggest driving difference between the two is that the Mondial surrounds you in sounds and visceral feelings that never get old (at least in doses of up to about 2 hours) while the 996 feels like a light vintage sports car that you can toss around effortlessly while it comfortably caresses you in (comparatively) quiet ultra competence. I had an '87 Carrera 3.2 at the same time I had the '86 Mondial 3.2, and while the 3.2 Carrera was a great car, I didn't enjoy driving it nearly as much as the Mondial back then or the 996 today.

A Jaguar XK is a reliable stunning car that handles very well and can be had for cheap.

BMW M3 or BMW 335i - not really a direct competitor but you can get a much newer lower mileage BMW coupe for 996 money. They don't look nearly as "exclusive" as a Porsche 996 in person though.

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I guess I should clarify: as fun and exciting as the 996 when not rolling on 7 hits of ecstasy.

I had a 350z for about a year, worked on it to redo worn parts, etc. One day I saw an mk2 coupe with Carrera IIs and a 6-speed. Test drove it with no expectations and bought it on the spot. I've been a fan of E46 and E36 M3s and E39 M5s for a long time, so if it wasn't a 996 it would be an M car, 540 or 335 with a manual. The BMW drive is great, but I don't spend much time wishing the 996 was an M3.

That's a really tough question. There ARE other cars in the price range with similar performance but arguably inferior styling and soul. There are also some really stylish and exciting cars that don't stack up in the performance category. Here are a few that may be worth considering. FD (3rd gen) Mazda RX-7 (1993 - 1995) - not quite as fast, but with a few mods is a very capable, incredibly styled and unique car. Downside is reliability. BMW Z4 - great styling, fun to drive, cheap, but lacks performance Corvette (C5 and probably C6) - they're fast and very capable. They're also a dime a dozen and leave a lot to be desired in terms of interior build quality and overall styling. Dodge Viper - monster engines, wicked styling, but I don't believe the early generations would hang with a 996 through the curves (just a guess, I could be wrong) 350 and 370Z - both solid cars if you can get over the butt ugly nose on the 350. 8 years ago when I first made my list of cars to own, an NSX could be had for around 30k. That's another one that I'd throw in there but I believe the prices have been going up. I've owned both an FD RX-7 and a first gen Z4, so I can tell you just about anything you want to know about those. Some others that were mentioned S2000 and BRZ/FR-S (fun little cars with no torque - more like toys, but with good styling). Any sedan S4/M3/etc - yeah they perform but ultimately they're built on a platform designed for driving to the office or getting groceries. They can be exciting, but not 911 exciting.

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Agree completely (with your entire post and especially the quote above). It's been a mystery to me why the factory didn't build the S2000 and BRZ (and Miata also) with a small turbo just to give it some low-end guts. The brand new BRZ I drove wasn't just "not fast", it felt slow in normal driving. I did, however, think that timid performance might make the BRZ a pretty good (safe) first car for my son when he gets his license.

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My take on the Elise was....Very uncomfortable. Very twitchy on the track despite extensive suspension mods. Very delicate fiberglass shells that are $15K each to replace if you hit a cone on the track or autocross and shells are perpetually backordered from Lotus. Gearing is all wrong for higher HP cars so even with a supercharger the straightaway speeds were not impressive. IMO the Elise would be a much better car if the wheelbase was a few inches longer. LOTUS stands for Lift On Turn You Spin. It can be a great car with about $30-40K in modification and preparation at a shop such as BOE. In stock form it's just OK. But it is very lightweight and a very good looking that gets a lot of attention. My opinion based on my experience with mine. YMMV.

Cayman S, many are below $25K now.

Hello , Take a look at the Crossfire AMG SRT6. I bought mine new in2007 after they were finally released by Mercedes. It is very fast, handles great and so far has been very dependable. These cars can be had for a song. I love all my cars, but have a fond place in my heart for this little rocket. Present herd. 2005 SRT6 2008 BMW K1200S 2002 CAB4 1984 BMW R100CS Last Edition 2004 Maserati Coupe 1956 BMW R69 2008 BMW 535i 2013 Maserati Grand Tourisimo Sport

Depends what you're doing with it I suppose. If you're looking for a track and autox weapon it's really hard to beat a C5 Z06. Not that Id really want to drive one anywhere else, but it has pretty incredible performance bone stock with sticky tires and it's less scary to repair than a 996. S2000 are phenomenal, as are Cayman, but both in totally different ways. So I guess it comes down to what you like in a sports car: pure all out performance or are you more into a tactile/involving car, a balanced package vs something high strung that makes you work harder for the speed, not to mention how useable on a day to day level does it need to be?

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Like your new born baby. In your eyes prettiest thing on earth, whilst others...

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I haven't personally driven the FRS/BRZ but I'm familiar with the specs. I have driven an S2K - I'd imagine its a similar experience, with the S2K being faster if you drive it like you stole it. The BRZ is probably a blast to drive on twisty roads - feels sporty - and doesn't have enough power to really get you into trouble. It will feel fast going around corners but in an open stretch you'll quickly realize just how underpowered it is. The same really applies to the BMW Z4. The 2.5s are really just completely underpowered - while the 3.0 (thats the one I had) had enough low end grunt to feel pretty fast on back roads. It felt light and easy to throw into corners with throttle - completely predictable. On the highway it didn't even compare to a 996 though.

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Hilarious! - I never heard that before

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True story. I had every intention of buying the new BRZ when I drove it. I even brought my son's largest jazz guitar and amp to the dealer for the test drive to see if it would fit (it did). Then I drove it. I loved everything about it, but it just felt slow -- didn't even need to get to a straight to feel underpowered. Then I put my foot in it and revved it out a bit, and it was a bit better, but still pretty slow. I'm not even a power junky, I care more about how the car drives through corners (which was excellent), but I could not like the BRZ for power alone. Immediately after that I thought to myself, "what the hell am I doing?" and I went out and bought a 996. Best decision I ever made. The 996 is not ideal (power-wise) for my son to learn to drive with (original intent of BRZ), but he can use our DD for that.

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Yep. The Toyota and Mazda brands especially. Is it really that hard to add 20-40HP to an existing model? Nope. Take the Mazdaspeed engine for the 3s and 5s. Or the Lexus F. Perhaps the market is too small for them

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To be fair, I believe Lotus licensed that technology from the early air-cooled 911's ...

In addition to the e46 z4 m coupe I mentioned earlier one car in our family stable is a 2006 John cooper works competition edition mini , they made 64 of these for Canada but I think you got the works gt version in the states . Its more fun than my 996 , not as fast on a long track ( but faster on a track like streets of willow springs) or as comfortable on a long trip but with the full JCW package , smiles per miles the next level . You Tube Check out out the second Gen JCW too , easier to find we are keeping our first Gen jcw as its one of the last cars to come out of the original jcw shop before it was bought out by bmw and moved in house, bookends our early 1275cc cooper s nicely

In the $25k range, and what you can get that is a competitor, I would go with the Ferrari Mondial QV, which will be hard to find at that price. Also the Porsche 928 S4 5sp, and the Honda S2000. The Ferrari has a similar go-kart kind of feeling to drive, and it's no problem to get it up near the danger zone. The 928 is cast as a touring car, but with the right trans, and some decent shocks, remove the rear seats, and sunroof junk they will be pretty fun. The S2000 is tossible and fun, but it has no panache, which is likely why it sold so poorly. Honda took the boilerplate definition of a sports car, and that was the result. But - it would do the job. I've never been a Corvette fan, but I know there are some out there in the price range that will be fun or fun-like. Blasphemy I know, but the 996 is not the be-all, end-all of the genre. However, I have enjoyed my car quite a bit.

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+1. so many cars. so little time....

You Tube

What about an 04-06 Pontiac GTO? Same price as a 996, and looks decent on paper, but I don�t know how good they are. And I hate to say this, but would you rather have a Pontiac or a Porsche if the price were the same? Although GTOs are kinda cool and not exactly common. I might take the Pontiac [LS] engine in my Porsche though.

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About the BRZ: My son wanted one. A co-worker was selling a 2013 with low miles in great shape. I drove it and fell in love! So light, great handling, etc. It had a quirky clutch and a huge gap between 1st and 2nd gears that was annoying, but other than that, it was a blast to drive. Hell, I chirped 2nd AND 3rd gears when I shifted. But, you do need to wind that little boxer motor out. Lug it around and it will feel slow for sure. I gave it to my son after taking him to some advanced driving schools. He drove it for 6 months on his learners permit. I warned him of the dangers of a quick, tight and light car... He put it into a guardrail ON THE SECOND day he had his license! Totaled it. I was SO pissed off you have no idea. Yes, he was safe, yada yada, but damn, he totaled my future auto-x car! As to the topic at hand, I drive a 2011 BMW 328i RWD M-Sport 6spd as my daily. I've driven every M car Bimmer makes on the track and I have to tell you, my little 200hp N/A straight six will at least keep up around the turns. I just LOVE driving that car. Front engine, RWD, 50/50 weight distribution is all hard to beat. I've only owned my 996 for a few months and limited winter driving. It's a BLAST to drive and it turns A LOT more heads than my Bimmer. But, I'm also not afraid to take the Bimmer to the mall or to valet park it. Hell, I'm also not afraid the engine will suddenly grenade on me if I don't change the oil twice a week! I drive it like a Honda in terms of reliability. At 96k miles, so far I'm loving every minute of it. But yet getting into my 911 is much more exciting (and I even paid less for it than the 328). I'll report back when I get the 911 to a DE day. But it is very cool and so far, I'm very happy with it. A Vette, S2000, BMW (even an M), WRX and nearly everything else mentioned except for the Ferrari will not have the same impact. Is that good or bad? I dunno. The owner must decide for him/herself I guess. Hell, that Honda Accord pictured always makes Car and Driver's top 10 list and they say it's an amazing car for the money. Best handling appliance you can buy, as they say. Boring! I also drive a `64 GTO and a modern Rubicon lifted on 35's, so I enjoy diversity. They're like children. You love them all, just differently. I say 911 over anything on those lists except for Ferrari. Do I want to own one of everything? SURE! But I'm not Jay Leno.

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A good compromise might be two cars: a basic BMW daily not unlike the 328, and a 996. I�ve considered an E36 non-M, and would even consider tracking it. The point is, I wouldn�t worry one bit about the Bimmer and it would be a blast and still handle really well, not too expensive to fix, etc.

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OUCH!! Sounds like I dodged a bullet . Glad that he's safe -- all that matters -- but I'd be pissed too. My son has raced go karts and iRacing for a long time, so he's actually a much better driver than I will ever be, but I'm still scared when he is first on the open road. He will be the one that autocrosses it. I'll let him learn in the Q5, but I may still eventually end up getting him a BRZ when he's ready for his own car (because its performance is somewhat safe). He keeps sending me links of RX-7's and Supras for sale that have been turboed to 700+ HP -- that ain't gonna happen.

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lol. Yea, that can't be good. I agree about multiple cars. I've got 4 now but it's becoming a burden. They are all hobby-able, meaning each one has clubs, forums and events. What to do when? lol

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To me, 4 cylinder engines started being almost universally completely devoid of torque when 4 valves-per-cylinder came out. The 2-valve 4's don't produce as much top-end power as 4-valves, but they tend to be a lot torquier in general. I guess this is because 4-cylinders are too cheap to be able to apply variable cam technology that would allow them to perform better at low RPM.

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I hope it's not too presumptive of me to ask, but how does he like the Pontiac Aztek you replaced it with?

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The Breaking Bad mobile? No way would I put him in that classic!

Elise & Evora

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Ok, here is one. How about a 911 SC, or the mid-70s 911. The rougher ones can be had for $25k-$30k, but that price is a little higher than the typical 996 range. Would you rather pay around $5K more and have an earlier 911?

No, I would rather have a 996 for $20k than an SC or air-cooled 911 for $40k. Unless of course I had more than a one car. I�ve done the daily driver on air-cooled cars before and they are no fun when it gets really hot out.

Has anyone driven a Pontiac GTO? They are pretty cheap and not exactly common these days. Ive heard they are terrible, but just by one person who then clarified that �it�s really ugly.� But ugly isn�t what I care most about.

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I assume you mean a modern GTO. They are pretty fast, and have tons of potential. They were undervalued. Give them a test drive and see if you like them. Only way to know. As for the air cooled cars in heat, what is the problem? Keeping them cool? Lack of functioning AC?

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I agree with this strongly. I'd take it even further -- other than investment value, and for a car that you plan to drive regularly, I'd rather have a 996 for $25k than an SC for $20k based upon driving fun, performance, and comfort. The only 911's I like driving better than the 996 are the 60's/early 70's (2.4L and under) 911s. Specifically I like the "e" models. The "t" didn't have that much power and the "s" models were too peaky (at least in period). The early (2.4l and under) "s" cars, when new, drove like an s2000 where they could be fast, but not in normal driving. I'd guess most of those early "s" cars that exist today have been tweaked to fix the drivability issues, but they weren't that fun at anything less than 9/10ths in period.

There really isn't anything that compares with a 911 regardless of the model. Other cars may be better in one specific area, but nobody has a better complete package, which is why it is such an icon.

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Right, modern GTO. They are like $12k-$15k. Right, lack of AC on the SC and 3.2 Carrera. Maybe the 964 and 993 are different.

The A/C on my '87 3.2 Carrera, even after A/C servicing at a Porsche dealer, and then again by third-party A/C expert, was only marginal. It blew coldish air. It's not often that the Italians beat the Germans in any comfort/functionality area, but the A/C on my '86 Mondial 3.2 was much better than the 3.2 Carrera. I think it's more difficult to do A/C effectively on an air-cooled car, so that's probably part of the reason why. Heat can work well on air-cooled cars, but I'm not the biggest fan of pumping in air that has been heated through circulation around the exhaust. Of course, neither of those A/C's compare to the 996, which can be a meat locker on demand.

I owned an �06 (LS2 engine) GTO for about 7 years, fantastic car. It�s really what I�d consider a �GT�, not quite a musclecar, definitely not a sportscar. The interior is of a much higher quality than anything you�d expect from GM, but with wide panel gaps. Handling is good, for a vehicle that weighs around 3800lbs, but is severely restricted in tire size. The LS2 is a wonderful beast of an engine, has a healthy lope at idle with the factory cam, and torque EVERYWHERE. There�s a plethora of inexpensive aftermarket support for the engine and transmission (T56), but anything specific to the GTO chassis carries an almost Porsche-like price premium. Oh, and it takes talent to launch one without scary wheel-hop. If you can find one that�s been adult-owned, I highly recommend the ownership experience, but it�s more comparable to a 928 in character, I think.

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Uh - ever heard of a 968? Four jugs(large, too) - four valves per, and variable valve timing. Quite torquey.

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Maybe it wasn't that clearly stated, but I wasn't saying that no 4-cylinder 16-valves have torque, but just that a ton of them don't have torque, particularly sports cars. The BRZ, S2000, Miata, and the MR2 are examples. My first 16-valve 4-cylinder was an MR2, I forget the year, but I bought it almost new in the late 80's and although it was a pretty good car, I didn't like the power at all. That MR2 was like a go kart (in a good way) but you had to rev it out to get any power and it felt pretty gutless almost all the time in normal driving. Of course, back then, 4-valve per cylinder for mainstream commuter cars was a new thing, but fast forward 30 years, and it's kind of exactly as it was. Your 968 example kind of makes my point. It shows that it can be done, but the mainstream brand 4-cylinder sports cars are mostly devoid of torque. I'd rather they tune the 16-valve for torque, instead of squeezing out those last few HP at 500,000 RPM. The 8-valve 4-cylinders felt better to me because they have much more torque by default. I remember driving a Kia Soul as a rental that was pretty torquey with a 16-valve engine -- so it can be done at a lower price point also, but the Japanese 4-cylinder sports cars seem to be mostly torqueless.