Tiptronic Question 2002

Got me new to me 996 yesterday. Everything seems great but just one question I have. Reading the manual it says not to lug the motor down low. But the trans in auto mode seems to always shift up, and keeps the rpms below 2000. Is this normal? Guessing its doing it for fuel mileage but it always seems to be a gear higher then I think it should be. Thanks for any feedback.

Mine does the same thing. Usually starting in 2nd gear. I enjoy driving the car in automatic, but it seems like it needs a sport button like our 991 pdk has. Good luck with the car. I really enjoy my 99.

Shawn, I own a 2002 tiptronic. Yes, the auto mode seems to seek the highest gear possible as quickly as possible. So the rpms are almost always low. If you 'floor it' the auto mode will adjust and shift much higher in the RPM but this only seems to work when you really mash down on the gas pedal. I often times drive in manual mode because it works so damn flawlessly. When I'm in auto mode I don't worry about it. You can down shift in auto mode anytime you want, you don't have to move the gear lever over to manual. I do this quite often when I just need that extra burst of RPM. Not unusual for me to down shift from 5th to 3rd or even 2nd when I need some more power. When you get to know all the little tricks and features of the tiptronic, it really is a thing of beauty. So well thought out. Don't know why anyone would want a manual, which offer zero advantages, except of course the physical act of shifting the gears which I don't miss at all.

Quotes source post: 14180021

Mine has to be in manual mode in order to make the buttons work. Could it possibly be a difference from one year to another?

The transmission will shift manually whether you have D or M selected, but only within certain speed/rpm limits. This effectively puts it in manual mode until the next gear change. It also has an adaptive process that you will find resets if you've disconnected the battery for a while. Mine pretty quickly adapts to starting in second gear, as jbob mentions. I haven't read that part of the manual, but if I understand correctly "lug the motor down", it's advising against manually selecting a higher gear than normal for that speed, which most people would be unlikely to do anyway.

Missed the last 2 posts prior to posting. Yes, the MkI and 02 & later tips are different manufacturers with significant changes.

Quotes source post: 14179997

Could not agree more to the sport button...lol Thanks man.

Thanks for the all replies guys. I got a 2002 with 55k miles. First day I bought it I dropped it off at a local P-shop and had them do the LN Pro bearing. 02+ Tips have to have the motor dropped to do IMS, so took the time to hit all the usual suspects. AOS, RMS, coolant res, plugs and coils, and everything else they could find. Just got it back yesterday and its all I can think of...lol Ironically we discovered one of the previous owners swapped out the IMS, but with some non LN bearing. What everyone is saying about the trans seems to be same experience. Starts off in 2nd. And it like to keep the rpms low. I am sure my MPG to work will be better because of it. A sport button would have been great....lol I have the Benz trans and it will let you shift without being in M. Will drop down nicely when you stomp it once. Loving the car! Thanks for all the replies.

In 2002+ the Mercedes transmission has unfortunate tuning compared to how trans is set up in the Mercedes cars. My E55 has 3 modes for the same transmission: comfort, sport, manual. Comfort: starts in 2nd gear. The default and only mode in the 996. Second gear start, and car up-shifts as fast as it can. Sport: first gear start, holds gears long, much more aggressive for downshifting, and car keeps the same gear for long time if it senses that you are being aggressive on the throttle, steering, or car senses that you are overtaking or lift off suddenly. Manual: steering wheel buttons or stick shaking changes the gear.

I am with you guys, the Tip is really the way to go. Only gripe/concern I have is the downshift from 3rd to 2nd seems a little slow. When going into a curve I wish to drive in 2nd, while downshifting before the turn starts, it just seems to be a slower downshift and the computer doesn't do a good job matching the RPMs to 2nd at the downshift. I try to blip the gas a bit, but I am not very good at getting the timing just right. I addition to a **** to select one of the sportier shift maps, I sure wish they had put some type of manual shift capability on the stick itself in addition to the wheel buttons. My 968 has a Tip and manual shifting is done by slapping the stick back and forth. I'm not a big fan of the wheel buttons, probably too many years in manual trans cars.

I'm in the market for my first Porsche (996) and deciding on manual or tiptronic. I heard tiptronic is almost a second slower from 0-60 is this true? I want to have fun driving this car and I'm afraid I won't get a fun driving experience with the tiptronic. Any feedback is appreciated.

Quotes source post: 14197174

I have a manual, but almost all the threads I have read talking about the tiptronic state that it is a good reliable transmission. Since both the tip and manual are good gearboxes, I would base your choice on whichever you prefer for your driving experience.

Quotes source post: 14197174

The ONLY reason I went Tip was because I sit in an 2hours of rolling traffic commuting to/from work 3 days a week. I have had manual's prior and the daily bumper to bumper grind gets old real fast. If you do not have a similar need 100% go for 6speed. Yes the Tip is slower 0-60. And yes it is rather lame in pure automatic mode. All that said the car in manual mode shifts very well, and is super fun to drive. And while its no PDK....its not bad at all. The TIP is a good compromise for those of us who daily in heavy traffic. Otherwise a manual is going to be a much better driving experience in every possible way. PERIOD. Keep in mind with 02+ TIPS with the Mercedes trans the motor must be removed from the car in order to remove the trans. This adds $$$$ to things that would otherwise be a much smaller job. ie RMS, AOS, IMS, ect.

Quotes source post: 14197310

Thank you for your feedback. Are all 02+ models with TIPS have Mercedes trans or just some? I find it odd to have Mercedes trans on a Porsche.

Quotes source post: 14197390

If I remember from my shopping the 3.4L's have a Audi/ZF trans. The 02+ 3.6L got the MBenz trans, same as the Turbo Tip models. The older transmissions you cannot manually shift via button without putting shifter into M, where as the MB you can. New one supposedly has like 255 shift patterns.... that all seem to just shift up too early. LOL. Good luck in the search.

How much slower with the Tip 0-60? It depends on how you drive. With the Tip on "Auto", it normally starts in 2nd. But just hit the button to 1st, and then floor the gas. I'd be surprised if the Tip is any more than .1 of a second slower, and there is other testimony that it might be faster. It shifts very quickly and should be identical after you are at 2,000 RPMs in 1st. The other thing it to understand the data. Given the premise, we have to ask why is it slower from 0-60. Well, probably because it is possibly slower from 0-5 or 0-10 (which both contribute to the given question of 0-60). The acceleration after that is identical to the manual (within some margin). Doesn't bother me at all. I didn't buy it to drag race the Mustang next to me. I bought it to drive, and handle, and perform. There are some really great curves, up / downhill, fun stretches where I live. I am probably never driving under 20 or 30 mph even on the tightest curves. So it doesn't matter if the Tip is slower from 0-10 mph. The trick with the Tip, if you want to enjoy the car, is to also shift it, on curves and up/downhill. Look at it this way, with a manual you have to shift into a lower gear for a curve, because you are going slower. For the manual trans that naturally creates an on-power condition for the drive train which makes driving the curve feel good, handles well, etc. In contrast, if you just take the Tip in a curve in full automatic, it doesn't know the curve is coming up, so it just drifts along in lower RPMs in a higher gear. Therefore, the drive train is not in an on-power condition and you''ll rock and roll through the curve thinking the Tip is the problem. The MK2s can be shifted in Auto, wonderful, just use it, and you can have the same high performance experience as the manual.

I forgot to add one thing. Remember, it isn't the transmission that people think is suspect for performance, it is the torque converter. The suspect area is definitely not slow shifting for the Tip. Obviously the torque converter has to slip, that's its job, otherwise you couldn't stop the car. I don't know the spec on the torque converter locking up, but lets assume it doesn't slip anymore at 2K RPMs and higher. And keep in mind that when the Tip upshifts in auto mode, it doesn't start the next gear with the engine at idle. The engine is already at higher RPMs for the new upshifted gear, so there is no more torque converter slippage after a few split seconds in first gear. And then, for the manual trans, there is always the occasional problem of the missed shift, or suboptimal shifting - which the Tip doesn't do (unless you let it). Lastly, someone sometimes raises the issue of Tip being only 5 speed vs manual 6-speed. Not an issue at all, the 996 has such a broad power curve that there isn't a need for a 6th gear for the Tip. And then personally, I would take a 911 with the PDK in an instant -- but it isn't worth extra $20-30k it would cost me now. Maybe in 2-4 years those prices will come down and I'll move to a PDK.

I'll just add that I have an 02 C4 Cab with the 722.6 Mercedes tip and I took it out without taking the engine out, had it and the torque converter totally rebuilt and put it back in, with the help of my son and very patient Mrs. Squawbum!. It was actually very easy to do and a fun family affair! I love the tip. I also have one on my Mercedes but that one is a 7 speed, the 722.9. I will say that my mom just got a Panamera S with PDK and that is an awesome tranny!! good luck!

You Tube

Quotes source post: 14197520

Gotcha! Has there been a lot of case where you never have to replace the RMS, AOS and IMS on the 996? Or are these parts a must to replace on all these cars?

Quotes source post: 14197698

Did you replace the RMS, IMS and AOS when you took the trans apart?

Quotes source post: 14197835

The IMS is an open debate you will never get answered. That is a personal decision, and it seems like 90% of the Tips I found found for sale did NOT have it done... Day I bought it, I had LN Single Pro bearing installed. Ironically it had a different aftermarket IMS in it already. My RMS was leaking...slightly. And the AOS WILL have to be replaced at some point. I just did them all when the trans was out (and aux coolant tank). The RMS and AOS are rather inexpensive parts that just make sense to replace if trans is off as it saves you $$$$'s in labor. The one major benefit of the Tip over the manual... no clutch replacements or clutch cylinder/slaves, ect. Good luck with your search. I lose sleep thinking about driving the car. It is that awesome!

The very very very first 996 tips (1998/99), like the 993 4 speed tips, has to be put into manual mode before the manual buttons can be used. But that changed while they were still using the ZF gear box...probably for 2000 model year (which mine is...a very late 1999 build date)...and my tip can be instantly put into manual mode while still in drive, just by engaging the buttons. After 8 to 10 seconds, if there are no additional commands, it shifts back into the auto mode. When second gear is too lazy to start in, I (while in drive mode) drop it into first. When I start off it has more bite and it then shifts into second and on. When the engine and trans fluids are cold and the car in auto mode, the default drive mode will hold the car in the lowest gear until 3000 rpm is reached, then it shifts. I find the tip gas mileage in the city pretty bad...12 mpg...but that can also be my driving style to some degree. On the highway...well I never check it...it is whatever it is. The tip is not as quick and precise as the PDK, and it doesn't have the rev matching feature...but even in auto mode, if you floor it (which engages the kick down feature) you will find the shifting easily faster than a manual and almost as good as the PDK. The advantage over the PDK is that mere mortals can easily work on the tip and rebuild it and at a fraction of the cost of the PDK. If you are in stop and go traffic, just put it in manual mode. It will start in second (which is fine for traffic jams) but won't upshift and give you the low rpm blues.

Quotes source post: 14198161

I'm losing sleep trying to find a decent one. I really don't mind if I find a 6 speed or Tiptronic I can live with either. Since you have experience with the IMS, is the IMS Solution that use oil injection the best way to go? Is it also the most expensive fix? I'm aware of the AOS, RMS and all the stuff associated with the tranny that should be replace when tranny is apart. Seems like I have to spend an extra 4 - 5k for proper replacements before I consider getting a 996?

The best IMS solution is "the" IMS Solution by Jake Raby. And it costs the most because it is the best. If you are getting a 996 and the IMS worries you, fix it right. And yes, plan on putting in $3k to $5k to make sure the car is up to date with all services and to make any preventive fixes that worry you.

I find the tiptronic exceptionally fast in my 03 carrera in manual mode. The auto mode chnages gears depending how you drive , push any tiptronic car for a while and you will notice a difference in auto mode . I find the tiptronic 03 carrera faster than a 03 manual and I am well acustomed with manual 911's.... perhaps that's what does to you 14 years of ownership of a tiptronic 996 carrera ! ( bought from new) ....! no way the 996 tip is slower 0-62 by a sec... i have beaten 996 manuals in 0-100 a number of times .... i think the tip is faster if mastered properly (and assuming the manual driver is a dump blonde..)

Giorginetto - you had me until the end, I could beat a dumb blonde with a manual on my auto Camry.

Per the owners manual the Tip is about half a second slower 0-60. In real life I am sure the shifting accuracy makes up for some.

Quotes source post: 14201364

Yes the IMS solution is by far the best way to go. But the parts are an extra thousand bucks, and you have to go to certified place to install it (which I had none close to me). No clue what the labor rate is for IMS solution but I have to assume total parts/labor cost is atleast $1500 over the reg LN bearing swap.... which most shops start around $3000+ for a Benz Tip. I cheaped out and just put the LN PRO bearing in. And while you have everything apart its a great time to do plugs and coils, water pump, coolant, brake flush, blah blah.... Plus the many other small items you are going to find in the process. I dropped close to 6k AFTER I bought it doing IMS and everything else. Whatever you decide make you sure get a real good PPI!!!

Quotes source post: 14206802

Thank you I really appreciate your advice. If I'm going to have to spend that much more money on replacement parts, why not just buy a 997? I've seen some in the 30k range with low mileage. Did your PPI gave you the thumbs up when you purchase your 996?

Quotes source post: 14207015

Any car that is more than 10 years old and that doesn't have a full service history is going to cost you the same amount of money to have full confidence in. Plus if you get into a 997S it gets even more expensive.

Quotes source post: 14206780

These number are useless in my opinion. Porsche always gives very conservative figures to the 911 , the 996 tipo has been measured to do 0-62km/hr at 5sec/4.8sec in numerous occasions but then again thats is a function of varius parameters. I am pretty certain my car with less than half tank of fule and me in it does 0-62 in 5 sec assuming the digitial speedometer is accurate this is .....

Quotes source post: 14207015

I am sure you have read tha there is no such thing as a cheap 911... Technically I did not have to do any of this maintenance, I could have just drove it as is. But we all know what happens when the IMS goes. Or the damage an overheat will do. Unless you find a car that has had a full dealer maintenance done, plan on dropping significant money to get it back to spec condition. Especially if you are not a diy guy. (I am not) My ppi identified most of the small issues. Those small leak and seal problems were under $700 to fix. I knew going into this that I was going to do the IMS immediatley after purchase. As well as the full 60k miles service (plugs coils, brakes, ect). A 997 with 50k mileage will still needjust about everything that i replaced as well to get tp the point where its trust worthy to daily drive. And be significantly more money upfront. And unless you go 09+ they still have an IMS bearing. My car was 19grand, body is perfect, with 55k miles. Put in another 5,500 I am still under 25k for a very clean 320hp 911. My gfs lame toyota was almost 22k off the lot....lol Either hold out for someone on here to sell there full maintenance history car at a premium (and still plan on spending some coin), or plan to drop a good amount post sale. There is nothing that makes sense here financially its all about smiles per mile...lol

Quotes source post: 14207269

I completely agree those numbers do not tell the whole story. But they are the published number for what its worth. I spent alot of time driving a twin turbo rx7 that was spec to 0-60 in 4.9 and my 996 seat of pants meter feels every bit as quick as the rx7 did.

I test drove a 2001 C2 with 41k miles with a Tiptronic for the first time. All I can say is WOW! It shifts fast and was fun to drive! I didn't have to move the stick to manual mode and all I did was move the buttons on the steering wheel and it shifts, very nicely at that. While the engine seems solid, the body had a few dings and scratches. The interior had a few wear here and there. Underneath the car was dry nothing leaking. The asking price is 18k and I'm still contemplating. What I am really looking for is a 2002 C2 because of the 3.6L. I took a few photos of the options and code it has. Can anyone tell me what these code means?

Quotes source post: 14197861

I didn't because that was all done around 30k miles ago. I did inspect the area and there was an LN IMSB in there as well as an updated RMS. Was totally clean behind the flex plate. Didn't do AOS either because it is fine and tests at 5 inches of h2o, although I didn't find that out until after I put the tranny back in. I actually thought I might have to do the AOS but after testing it I'm relieved that I don't have to. After the rebuild the tip is like new. Unbelievably smooth transmission and I love being able to use the shift buttons at anytime,whether in D or M mode. When I use the buttons in D mode it will automatically switch to M mode and then back if you don't touch the buttons for a period of time. I always drive in D mode and use the buttons when I want to override the computer. One thing I don't like is that you can't use the actual shifter **** to shift gears. Can only use the steering wheel buttons to shift.

To add to the previous comparisons between Tip an Manual The tip gearbox is around 100lbs heavier then the manual. You feel this during driving; the car is less agile. Hence also the slower 0-60 accelerations on paper. Might be the Tip shifts makes up for this partly in real life. I think the gear ratio's in the Tip are developed for fuel economy instead of performance. Having in mind the Tip still consumes more. About the gear ratios; with the manual I tend to cruise always around 3000-3500rpm where more torque is available. With the tip in Auto it is always around 2000-2500. So with the manual I accelerating right away without the split second of lag for the downshift or manual downshift of the Tip. Accelerating from standstill you feel the Tip loses a lot of power in the low revs before the torque converter locks up. At the end the Tip has definitely less hp at the wheels. The exhaust sound of a Tip is somewhat different compared to manual cars.

Quotes source post: 14214359

So when you're cruising on the freeway, you leave it on 4th gear to get 3500rpm?

Quotes source post: 14214618

Depends, on the freeway you do not need to accelerate that fast to overtake. Did 25.000 miles in my Tip over the last 1.5 yrs without any regret. But now after 500miles driving the manual gearbox it is the first thing that was directly crystal clear for me. The gear ratios of the manual are more tailored to the engine then those of the Tip. Tip is perfect for cruising. Manual for real connecting with your car. My personal opinion after driving both.

Quotes source post: 14214680

Having driven both and owning a Tip, I completely agree with you. Tip is a great option for those who cannot live with a clutch on the daily. Gets you about 85% of the driving experience. But there is nothing like a proper manual.

Quotes source post: 14213933

Put your VIN in the option decoder here and it will give you more info on the car. Wp0aa299716520414

Quotes source post: 14214700

When I go to enter the VIN, the description said it was a 911 coupe 6 speed manual but the car was a Tiptronic...?

Quotes source post: 14215148

That is your vin, I got it from your option sticker picture. Wp0aa299716520414 Its a call you are going to have to make, how much service history doc does it have? How much does carfax show? Did it have any long periods where it sat with milage not increasing in carfax? I held out for a 02+. If you decide to go for it, make sure you have a PPI by someone who knows these cars just incase there is something major you are missing. Make sure original engine...lol Its a big gamble regardless, if there is something major hiding with the motor that shows up in a few months you are looking at $10-20k. Make sure you are comfortable with that and have the cash that it will not put you in ruin.

Quotes source post: 14215169

Thanks for the advice. Yeah I just now realized the decoder was the car I was looking at lol. The weird thing is the decoder said it was a 6 speed manual when in fact it has a Tiptronic...? Carfax shows lots of services including all the major ones from a Porsche dealer. No records of replacement or repairs, didn't find any IMS sitckers but underneath was dry and no leaks. I notice the AC blew cold air but the air was weak and not blowing out a lot like the 99' I tested. I think I'm going to pass on this one, I really like the 02' with the 3.6L. It has a nice pull and fast!

Mine is the same, I always run in 2 and 3rd around town. If I was to go right side on the stick she always lugs herself around. Try keeping her between 2500 and 3500 rpm. There much happier, when highway cruising let the right stick take over, stop and go traffic 2nd gear for me. Hope this helps

What average MPG are you guys seeing with 3.6 TIPS?

Depending on the circumstances 17-23 mpg

Quotes source post: 14221540

Thanks. Been logging 19-20 on the past few tanks and just making sure that was typical. Put 860 miles on it so far. Loving it more everyday!

Shawn, what year is your car and have you had any major issues with it?

Driving around Los Angeles I get about 12 mpg...on the highway, I never really measure. I do us the manual mode almost constantly.

Normal averages for me are 17-20mpg 9-12mpg are fuel consumptions I see at the track. have to mention these are the values I get using the onboard computer, not the real values calculated based on miles driven and how much fuel refilled.

These cars are a gas guzzlers for sure! Maybe I should look more into the 6sp manual for better gas mileage.

Yes there is a lot of loss in the fluid coupling of the torque converter. The whole gear system internally has also much more inertia compared to the manual. More than 100lbs in wheight difference. It is only because the majority of those who could afford a new 911 were lazy drivers that so many Tip cars were made!

Quotes source post: 14222385

Grey 02 cab with 56,000. Car spent first half of its life in hawaii, then someone brought it to the east coast. No problems so far. But i did address most of the common issues proactively as soon as i bought it. Ims, rms, aos, cam tensioners, coils, plugs, belt, and fresh fluids. Rolled 1000 miles this morning, so far has burned no noticable oil. It is going into the shop week after next for a water pump and thermostat proactive replacement at the recommendation of my indy. Might have hin swap oil sender as well. I I also wanted him to give it a good look over after i put some substantial miles on it...as we had the motor and trans out early this month. Just to be sure everything looks good. Then brake pads next oil change and im done with all the planned work. Might do a new convertible skin on it next year as its the only thing on the car that does not look new.

Quotes source post: 14222605

Yeah i was just using the average of the computer for reference. 20mpg with a good amount of heavy foot doesnt seem too bad. I have a 4x4 3/4 ton cargo van that gets 11mpg so its an improvement for me....lol

Quick note on the 02+ tip - you don't have to mash the pedal down in order to get it to downshift. On the floor, where the gas pedal hits the floor, there is a little button type thingy that gets depressed when you push the pedal all the way to the floor. All you have to do is “pump” the gas pedal down very quickly to depress that button. Pump it and go right back to where you had it. You don’t have to go exactly back to where you where, I’m just saying you don’t have to keep the gas held down flooring it. It will immediately shift down to the lowest gear it can given the speed and RPMs. And man it’s lightning quick. A perfect use case is an impending lane change where you’re going to want the rev’s to be high. Pump it, tranny shifts down, revs are high and ready for you to then hit the gas when the lane change is open.

Wouldn't it be easier to just hit the down button on the steering wheel?

Quotes source post: 14222845

Just saw someone dye there old faded top and it looks really good. And for those of you concerned (really?) with fuel consumption, your driving the wrong car

I'm on a hunt for this car and it will be my daily driver. Any bit of fuel conservation will help.

Quotes source post: 14224667

Easier? yes. Faster? No it is funny but somehow the Tip shifts slower manually then it does in automatic mode. the Tip computer makes things going faster. Especially when you drive in a more sportive mapping the automatic shifting pattern and performance is great.

On the freeway, my C2 could get to 27 MPG at 75 MPH on cruise control. Suggestion for downshifting to the lowest gear possible for 2002+ tips to try. Hold down the - button the steering wheel instead of push and releasing it. On the Mercedes, if I hold the stick to the left...it will drop the transmission in the lowest available gear at that speed.

Quotes source post: 14225107

Thanks. I was actually looking into having it dyed yesterday. Seems like a good option, as the top is in good shape, just light grey colored so it shows fade in spots. I honestly could care less about the MPG, but I just wanted to make sure my motor was operating under "normal" consumption rates....lol

Might as well kick-start a year-old thread. I have a 99 tip, and even in manual mode, it seems to want to shift into 2nd at about 6400 RPM instead of the redline of 7300. It overrides the buttons on this. Now from 2nd to 3rd under full throttle, it'll go to redline. I just wonder if the programming on the Tip DME makes it shift early as a protective feature. Thanks for your time.

Quotes source post: 15055816

Realize this is an old thread but always good for reference. I noticed the same thing in the video earlier in the thread. Early on 1-2, redline on 2-3. I have a 04 996tt tip, I'll see if it does the same thing.

Quotes source post: 14197698

Did you do a write up on this procedure? I want to remove mine to install IMS Solution.