Disappointing trend in values

Well, I know everyone buys their car for how great it is, and no one will ever sell their baby, and we don't care about the values of our cars. Having said all that, I bought my car in Nov 2015, thinking that the prices had just about hit their nadir, and would be trending up. Plenty of folks here said, and thought the same thing. Such has not been the case. https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuati...he-911-Carrera I'm not really upset about it, it's not a big dollar loss, but I could have put the 16k in a portfolio of growth stocks and done rather nicely. But no, I bought the 996, hoping I would have a nice little car to drive, and make some cash on the side. Oh well. Now tell me how none of this matters to you, that you wouldn't sell yours for $524,846 - so there.

Well, if it helps you can think of the $40k you didn't lose by buying a new 911 in Nov 2015. Cheers, D.

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Were you at least half right?

It is holding its value pretty well. I am not surprised, there are still so many about, a limitied amount of buyers available and a glut of nice 997s depreciating our way. Nope, I don't expect values jumping up...well, except for mine of course!! LOL

If you were expecting to gain big $$$ you invested in the wrong car.

If you were expecting to gain big $$$ you invested in the wrong car.

Hagerty says $17k for mine. That's $6.5k more than I paid for it.

Buy it to drive it, there are only few variations of the 996 that might see a small rise, if that.

Prices for rarer cars, (turbos, C4S, 40th, etc) seem to have gone up, at least locally, in the last two years. I haven't been following the C2 and C4 prices. Tiptronic cabs seem to be the cheapest option out there, even though most people use their Porsche as fair weather boulevard cruisers.

You bought a sports car thinking you might make some money on it? That's on you, completely.

doc: If you bought the car to make money that was a mistake. If you bought the car to drive and enjoy good choice. Enjoy it or sell it and never look back. From reading your previous posts my guess is this will not put you in the poor house! I overpaid for mine, will never get my investment back and could care less. If I wanted to make money I would have left the money in investment opportunities.

From what I've seen, most used cars lose value over time.

The way I see it you can purchase a new VW Jetta that will be worth $10K in a couple of years. With a 996 in a couple of years, you'll end up with a higher residual value and have slightly more fun driving it. Cars that are driven are always a liability and I look to just minimize the bleeding. Im happy to gamble on not having a major repair during ownership and having a blast with my daily driver. IMHO investments should sit in a climate controlled warehouse. A ultra low mile 996 TT, GT2 GT3 would fit the bill, but it must be torture to own it and not be able to drive it around. Driving it around is like withdrawing your portfolio, putting it in cash your pockets and hope you don't get robbed walking through the city....

Ol' guy told me one time, "son, if you bury a turd in a time capsule, in a thousand years, it will be priceless!" Well, I can empathize with Doc, when I started looking at the 996 Carrera (5-6 years ago), I thought it would start appreciating, but sadly, it continues to depreciate every year. IMS curse of the M96 motor? 29+ modes of failure? Mass produced? First air cooled? Dread fried egg lights? Or collectively everything above and more? But the facts are the facts, look at retable numbers from auction data and sites like Hagertys and the reality is they continue to depreciate. By best advice is to NOT bury it in a garage for a thousands years, but instead, go out and drive it like there's no tomorrow. That care of it and it will bring you many miles of smiles!

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If you bury 175,000 turds in a time capsule and dig them up in a thousand years, they'll still be worth sh*t. The only thing that is going to drive up 996 prices is scarcity, and the last time I checked, there were still plenty of 996's for sale to meet "demand." I love my 996, but not as an investment.

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Nice work on the 996 fund. New keys by next spring!

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I could imagine the scene Dr. Schnelly expert archeologist! haha [student] What have you found professor, what have you found? [dr. schnelle] Well, I don't know. It's very large ancient tomb of some sort. Here's the entrance. Let's open it shall we? But first there's ancient electronic lock. Do you have key fob we discovered? [student] Yes, but I've clicked and clicked, but it doesn't open!! [dr. schnelly] You have to get right up to the door. This is a german tomb remember? (pulls the key fob from the student's hand and tries to open the door) click click... ugh. nothing. Maybe we should use our 12V jumper or look for the manual release cable? [student] manual release cable? [dr. schnelly] don't ask! [student] why not let's just break the window? [dr. schnelly] brilliant my son! gimme a hammer.... (breaks the window and the horn starts to go off) [student] owwwww... that hurts my ears [dr. schnelly] don't worry, the battery will die momentarily... it always does. In the meantime, let's pry the door open. [student] Ok, let do it! (pulls the ancient door open and weird dust clouds bellow out of the entrance... then the professor walks in as the student stays outside) [student] ewwwww... Professor, it smells horrid... what can you see inside? [dr. schnelly] Well, it appears... [student] Appears to be? [dr. schnelly] it appears to be a... [student] what what what??? [dr. schnelly] to be the world largest tomb full of... [student] what what??? tell me professor! [dr. schnelly] worthless german sh*t as far as the eye can see!!! ((((sad trombone)))) [student] You mean, no Ark of the Covenant? no Holy Grail? the body of Jimmy Hoffa??? Anything like that? [dr. schnelly] Son, you been watching too many movies!

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Thanks man! Seriously, I sure hope so. I would love to beat the spring rush and grab one when the prices are low during winter. My wife really wants me to consider a tiptronic so that she can enjoy it too. I realize there are two types of people in this world - 1. that can't carry a tune in a bucket and... 2. can't drive manual cars. My wife is both! hahaha But I love her! And, she really loves these cars too, but frustrated that she can't drive manual without grinding the hell out of the clutch. She can't rev match to save her life and then she just shuts down and doesn't want to fool with it. She gets mad and frustrated. Oh well. But she can drive the hell out of a auto around the mountains. Makes me sick, but she's happy, I'm happy.

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Jimmy Hoffa is NEVER there.

Jimmy Hoffa drives a mk1 aero.

I believe we need to think in terms of value, not just resale price. Value = the low price to purchase + the transportation that the car provides (daily, useful stuff) + the fun factor + the opportunity to own/drive a great car - the maintenance costs + the resale value. The 996 is a great value. In other words, unless the ownership is strictly a speculative investment, the forecast resale price is just one factor to consider in 996 ownership. The 996 is the wrong car for speculative investment, except IMHO the GT3. The problem isn't' the weaknesses of the 996, the problem is the competition. There are so many other great old/desirable/collectable cars increasing in prices. For example I love the 3.0 CSI, 280SL, TR3A, 914, XKE, various 911s, and others. In the last few years, they've all more than doubled or tripled in price. And owners are moving from an entry level purchase of a 996 to 997s or 991s. That means there is less demand for the 996s. It's just how markets work.

Sub'd

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Hell, B3, the way the market is your fund will get you into a tiptronic cab right now with money left over for lunch

With all of the money I throw at this thing there was never going to be a chance I'd come out on top.

It's still a buyers market for the 996, they're everywhere!

I think they are doing "ok" not great but not getting to absurdly low levels. This car had engine rebuild and other options and went for 20,500 https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-porsche-911-5/#comment-1771779

I would expect at some point it will level off, maybe to 944 levels. But it is a great car, beautiful and drives great. I'm trying to join the club now, trying to get the perfect car. Jonathan

If you include preventative maintenance, I don't think any of us actually "made" money. I was hoping for roughly the same money as purchase after a few years (reasonable given all the PM I've dumped into the car). Problem is, I probably overpaid...oops. When things stop needing replacement or breaking, it shouldn't be too bad in the grand scheme of things...right? I feel like a degenerate gambler with this car. I keep thinking it's going to stop needing work...you know, my luck's gotta change at some point, I just need to keep playing.

I dig this feature on BaT. Decent enough sample size for me.. https://bringatrailer.com/porsche/996/

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I have bought sports cars and made money. In fact, I've done pretty well on other marques and models. Nor did I blame anyone else, but did mention that the brain trust here also was in error. If you got that from my post, that's on you.

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Yea, I've seen 996 cabs in decent shape under $10K, but I'm going the coupe route this time unless my girls beg for another convertible. ha! They know how to get into my heart. It's the female magic!

When are people going to stop trying to convince themselves these cars are going up in value? They're a mass produced sports car (albeit a good one) with a few Achilles heels, and there are ton of them for sale at any given time. Drive them and enjoy them and stop worrying about appreciation (it ain't gonna happen in our lifetime).

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But...I DO appreciate it.

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I got an AeroSport for ya, but it's a stick. Most people get the hang of stick shift after then are out on their own for a day or so. My daughter was scared of the stick shift in my 928, after I let her take it for a few days, she got it pretty well. It's a combo of muscle memory, and timing that is not really natural. Anyway, let me know if you like red. I'll give you a special deal, one time only, cash out the door, never see it again price. edit; I deliver

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I'm afraid to ask what this "aerosport" looks like... Are we talking a Porsche 996 with the aerokit or red hand glider? hahaha I'm considering all the options, but I'm no rush cause I don't want to be doing this again anytime soon.

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Great find Tony! That picture tells it all! Thanks for posting!

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Hmm, interesting that you mention hang gliders. I'm a hang glider pilot from way back, also an instructor. But no - I have a red 99 well optioned coupe. I tried to sell it a while back, but only got some stupid lo ball. So, I put the LN bearing in, and new clutch stuff. Will be selling sometime in the future.

Isn't quite funny when you go to a dealership interested in a car like the Porsche 996 and the salesman talks it up like it's the greatest machine on the planet and that they're rare, hard-to-find, and won't be there tomorrow type of car. But when you attempt to trade it back in to the same dealership... then it's worthless, and they can't sell them... they sit on our lots for months... we eventually have to auction them off... blah blah blah.

Cool related story. I have a car hauler with those mobile home goofy hubs and 14.5" rims. I went to this trailer junk place and asked for a couple spare rims. The guy said 'wow, those are rare! gonna be hard to find and expensive'. So I says 'well, lucky me, I'll sell you six of them!' He kinda froze up for a bit, and started blathering 'well, uh - ya see, them uh, well, no I don't want them.' I didn't buy anything there.

It sure does seem like we're headed for (or living in) a world of $18k-23k for nice mk2s and $15k-20k for good mk1s, with noteworthy exceptions that mk1 aeros are worth about as much as clean mk2s, mk2 aeros are just not worthy of a big markup, C4S models are +$5k from narrow-bodied cars & cabs are $5k less than NBs. That's ok with me. Scratching the 911 itch hasn't been cheap by any stretch, but I'd like to go deeper into the wormhole of r/r flat6dom. I really want a rebuilt 3.0, 3.2 or 964.... but I have to buy a house first. So maybe in 10 years. Unless I get wicked smaht or someting.

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I make some cash on the side by delivering pizza's in my 996!

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And he's right on both accounts! They are great, and they won't be there tomorrow because they'be been shipped off to auction... Foolishly, I keep a spreadsheet tracking what I've spent on the car (purchase, parts, etc). I find it kind of depressing whenever I look at it, though I always feel better about it after going for a drive.

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If?

I heard through the grape vines Guards and Arena red are appreciating at the quickest rate in today's market. Bigly fast.

The value of something doesn't come from articles, bank estimates, book prices or other people's opinions..

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While its yours, sure. When you go to sell it, it's another story. I have a 1961 MGA and got it when I was 17, so lots of sentimental value. I spent $35k fixing it up and could sell it for $25k.And that was me doing most of the work. I'm looking to get a 996 and have no clue why its not more desired. Jonathan

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I think using the adverb 'intrinsic' in front of 'value' it would be more accurate. While many things can be valuable, for non-monetary reasons, in the capitalist market, value is typically referenced by it's financial worth. I used value specifically because I know that someone would point out that it's value is not representative of it's monetary worth.

I don't believe my car has intrinsic value beyond being a rather handy horseless carriage that can haul two people comfortably, two people and two quadruple amputees somewhat less comfortably, and a collection of said peoples' stuff. Since quadruple amputees don't typically pack many shoes or gloves, the cargo space turns out to be surprisingly-not-too-disappointingly-inadequate. Any value placed on the car beyond this is extrinsic...a mental construct of a person belonging to a known-disturbed subset of the populous who insist that THEIR horseless carriages are somehow more valuable than those driven by rational people who don't choose cars known to self-destruct on a timetable known only to the gods and - perhaps - St. Raby, the patron saint of busted cars and mutilated wallets. Also, I like compound adjectives and bacon.

non stop ballet

Not in the back seat. It's non-start ballet back there.

Where are you finding all these quadruple amputees and why are you hoarding them all to yourself?

Invest in a vintage VW if you want a car to hold onto and make your money back...And they are cheap and easy to work on!

Buying a sports car and hoping to make money is like dating a hot young woman putting her through med school and saving her best sex for the next guy...... You should be driving it like you stole it to get your money's worth.

People buy this car knowing it was mass produced compared to the iconic aircooled models. There is a very high chance that only the GT3, Twin Turbo, and possibly the C4S are the vehciles that may appreciate. GT3's have already skyrocketed in value over the past 3-4 years. Enjoy these vehicles for the experience. They are a great buy for the price and are meant to be driven.

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You don't really need to hoard them - you just need to keep track of where you last dropped 'em off.

I read that there was 175,000 of 996's manufactured I read it somewhere so forgive me if it's not true, but let's assume the number is right. I wonder how many of 996's were Registured in Houston and other south Texas and how many were in the Keys and other flooded out areas in Florida? I really think there is a concentration of Porsches in those areas. I am not trying to reduce the misery of those horrific disasters. Just wonder what kind of toll it had on the 996 population, just thinking.

although I don't really care about Hagerty or any other method of trending values, those lines look pretty flat. IE not appreciating OR depreciating for last 3 years. like everyone above me said, I'm just driving it.

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I also have a speadsheet that tracks my car purchases, repair and maintenance costs and sell prices over time. I actually feel really good about mine. You see, for every example of someone buying a new car off the lot, and losing a lot of money to depreciation and financing, I buy used, older cars, with cash, and I've historically retained, over the last 15 years, around 85% of the value. In other words, I've spent $100,000 on cars and have made $85,000 back when I've sold them, less repairs and maintenance. So I've driven some fun and great cars for about $1,000 per year. Porsche 996s and investing are not alike in practically every way but one: "A good purchase is halfway down the path of a good sale." The 996 has pretty much hit bottom of the depreciation curve, so it's likely that there's only one direction it can go from here - and that is up. Now, the only question is "when," and for that, I'm pretty sure that time period is going to be somewhere between 3-20 years, with the hope that it might start to happen in 5 years, but if I were a betting man, I think 10-15 years is more realistic. The 88 Carrera I bought for $16,800 in 2005 and sold for $18,800 in 2007 didn't really go up until recently, a good 10 years after I had it. Holding onto a car for 10 years, even if values double, is still not "making money" in my book due to carrying costs, but it sure the heck is "not losing money," which is already back to square one with today's 996s. Anyone who purchased a 996 in the last 5 years ought to feel pretty good about the fact that values have stayed relatively flat.

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

It doesn't necessarily only have one way to go. Prices very well may plateau where they are now, unless you have a very good example of a TT, GT, ME, or C4S. Mind you, the values will be dependent on other factors as well. So if you have a regular 996, I don't see much happening to the values even in 10-20 years. I could be wrong, but definitely didn't buy it to wait and find out.

I dropped $30K on my car 5 years ago. At my really good (0%) APR, my "payment" every month has been $500. The monthly lease payment on a brand new Turbo S coupe is $2,429 for 42 months. Oh, plus nearly $15K due at signing. Obviously there are people around - more than you'd imagine, I suspect - who believe that driving a new, top-of-the-line 911 is 5x better - and thus worth 5x more - than driving a 17-year-old base-model coupe. I don't happen to be one of those people - so the true value of the 996 to me is that it affords me a "supercar" experience, albiet a two-decade-old one, at the cost of a jankey minivan (a base-model 2017 Honda Odyssey minivan costs exactly $10 less than I paid for my 996). (and the guy leasing the Turbo S still doesn't own anything after shelling out $102,018...)

Here are some curve fits. If anyone thinks this is still not headed down....

Quotes source post: 14515742

That's what I pay in maintenance every month. This month was closer to $600 actually. Make money? L O F'IN L

Quotes source post: 14515909

I'm running about the same. Take into account preventative maintenance, mine has been more like $1K per month. Yep, 14 months of ownership - $14K into the car. Some people have only had to change oil, many have had much more. You cannot take the running costs out of the equation for the 996 - that's where the real gamble is.

$14K just about covers the due-at-signing costs for that new 911...

Quotes source post: 14516127

yeah, no. After the 996 experience, they've lost me for life.

Quotes source post: 14516127

And the running costs would be $50K per year if had the same ratio as my 996 maintenance/purchase price. On one hand I think my running costs are high because this year included rear ties, clutch, flywheel, shocks, coolant tank. On the other hand, there's seems to be ton of stuff that can go wrong on these cars, so I'm not so sure the costs are going to let up.

I'm at $500ish/mo on maintenance about 18 months in, but that includes a fairly aggressive PM schedule including IMS Solution, 1.5 sets of tires, brakes, AOS, coil packs, plugs, CPS, FPS etc. Add fun parts like sways & whatnot and I'm at $1k/month. I've cut back on driving mine from DD to mostly weekends due to the issues so far. I may end up swapping it out for an 84-93 C2 after I save a bit, but I'm not completely sure that would reduce costs. The good news is that after the first 10,000 miles and winter cycle the car seems to be more reliable.

Quotes source post: 14516393

I'm at the same place. A lot of mine was not actually needed though: stereo, wheels, suspension, etc...

How are y'all spending so much on maintenance? I've done an oil change and air filter and that's it for almost 1 year ownership.

Quotes source post: 14517573

1 year of ownership = 2 wet behind ears.

Quotes source post: 14517573

10,000 miles used all of a set of Pirelli rears ~$800 + $600 for new P/S AS3+ front tires needed replacements due to cracking/age $500 for new P/S AS3 cracked AOS ~$350 small leak in oil cooler line ~$1,500 (engine out labor shared with IMSS) IMSS - $1,800 rear brake pads needed replacing (idiot light came on) ~$100 coolant leak during winter heat cycling ~$200 cracked coil packs/plugs needed replacing due to the coolant leak & age ~$900 misfires when hot due to bad crank position sensor ~$200 slow start burned a starter motor, had to replace y-cable & starter ~$500 five oil changes ~$700 driver school maintenance ~$200 Since buying it, I've done a lot of canyon runs, several 1,000 mile weekends & generally have driven the Carrera more than my other car. It's the most enjoyable all around car I've ever driven I do expect maintenance costs to even out with some troublefree years ahead, so my picture isn't exactly complete.

Quotes source posts: 14517573, 13989431

Bad at math, forgetful, or trolling?

Must be taking b3freak's detective course

Just did the math on mine. (Mistake.) It was $536.11/Mo. If you remove the subframe issue I inherited upon purchase from P.O.'s curb adventure it's $358.33/mo

I bought mine to make into a street legal track car, and it had a number of needs. I've rebuilt the engine, new suspension, brakes, seats, roll bar, harnesses, all the other items it needed plus the maintenance required for a track toy. I don't even want to calculate the per month cost. My wife might see this post and find out how much I've spent.

Quotes source post: 14518749

Alzheimer's?

Quotes source post: 14517573

My car is a turd.

I guess I should have qualified my reference to "value" as a noun. val�ue ˈvalyo͞o noun 1. the regard that something is held to deserve; the importance, worth, or usefulness of something. "your support is of great value" synonyms: worth, usefulness, advantage, benefit, gain, profit, good, help, merit, helpfulness, avail; importance, significance "the value of adequate preparation cannot be understated" As a verb, verb 1.estimate the monetary worth of (something). "his estate was valued at $45,000" synonyms; evaluate, assess, estimate, appraise, price, put/set a price on "his estate was valued at $345,000" I guess both are equally subjective..

Quotes source post: 14519841

We all know your disdain for the M96 motor and the 996, but tell us your story. Which one did you have? And what happened? Thanks man!

Just click my link and search for threads started by me. You name it, I've experienced it with this turd. Lol

Quotes source post: 14518749

I did forget about the stuff the PO did but he took it to the dealer for everything so he was paying out the nose. I'd have to go back and look but in that $6k was an oil change, 1 top cylinder, a set of tires, and clearing an engine light.

Those of you who are currently spending nothing on maintenance, enjoy it. In the past six months, my car went from "only uses gas, oil, filters, and tires" to needing: * Instrument cluster repair * Driver window regulator * 3rd taillight replacement * Side marker replacement * Bumper/Frunk trim fell apart and needs replacement * The SECOND set of aftermarket mufflers is coming apart internally and needs replacement * LCA's need attention - clunking at low speeds * Wheels need refinishing after road debris incident * Front fender liners are shrinking with age and now rubbing against the fender edge. Need replacement. * Engine bay purge fan no longer turns freely. Needs replacement. * Driver-side radiator fan intermittenly makes noise; sounds like bearings/bushings. Needs replacement. * Unresolved AM alternator whine - suspect alternator/voltage regulator needs replacement. * Sunroof switch pushed into overhead console. Needs repair. * Resetting sunroof limit switches no longer makes one-touch functions return; suspect one or more limit switches needs replacement. * Closing driver door too firmly causes window to power down. Haven't researched to see if this is a symptom of the window regulator or its own issue. Sure, hitting a drive shaft and screwing up the wheel isn't a wear item or due to the age of the materials or heat cycling, but the rest of this stuff is just what happens when a machine with loads of parts starts getting old. In the same way that it's easy to assume you've got the gem and someone else has the turd because you're enjoying a nice streak of reliability, it's also difficult to avoid thinking you got the turd when that streak comes to an abrupt end...

In hindsight, it would have been better to avoid using "turd" and "streak" in the same sentence.

"* Side marker replacement" Wasn't this part of the drive shaft collision incident, as well? Subtract approximately $19.95 from the "wear and getting old" price list. Did the gauge smoke problem get fixed?? If so, what was the root cause, please?

If I had a catastrophic failure and had to sell my 2002 Cab as a roller, I�d feel very sad. But I�d also feel like I got more than my money�s worth of FUN! I�d go out and buy another one ASAP. Bill

But it is the best depreciation asset I have.

I'm thrilled that my admittedly fairly plain 2002 C2 isn't losing value... Gaining value is a whole different thing. But really, for little more than the operating costs, I get to enjoy a very capable sports car. (Full disclosure... I bought it for $18,000 and it's probably worth $18,000 or so now.)

Guys, I apologize, it's my fault, I bought one this year. Every "investment" I've ever touched seems to tank. As soon as I sell, values will skyrocket. In all seriousness and IMS theory aside, the value for a "standard" 996 has been relatively flat or slightly appreciating for a few years. What I mean by standard is if you took any 996 and locked it in a time capsule and kept it in the same condition/miles the value would have at least stayed the same over the given time period. What you see in the data presented in this post is a reflection of the whole fleet aging. As these cars age out and get off the road it first begins driving up the value of the cars in better condition, once those rise the lesser condition cars will follow. I've written this elsewhere, but a good condition low mile car is going to start creeping up (go find any coupe with <30k miles and get it for less than $30k). At the topside will be the pricing of the 997 though, so there isn't much room for appreciation like the 993's. I could see nice examples being high 30's in the next few years, really special cars in the low 40's. That would be it, adjusted for inflation, until Porsche does something the faithful deem "stupid" with the 911. I didn't buy mine for an investment, but I did buy it expecting to be able to drive a few thousand miles a year and not lose to depreciation.

I bought mine to drive ,and drive it I do.The only car I made a lot of money on was my 1966 mustang fastback .Paid $2100 for it back in 1982 at an estate sale in malibu . Sold it few years back for $50 K. I bought it to drive ,had no clue the prices would skyrocket as they have.The only regret I have for the 996 is my rottweiler can't ride in it.She's too big at 120 lbs .I think most cars are not investments ,there are some that will appreciate but those are few and far between .The older mustangs were an exception.

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As a side note to my post above, I have a 1993 Mustang 5.0 notchback I bought for $6k in 1997. This is a car for which they literally made a million of them. It's only seven years older than my 996. I've probably got an additional five grand into it in mods and I could probably break even on it at this point. I've enjoyed the car for twenty years and I could still walk away from it not having spent a dime, in the strictest sense. The 996 is far more rare, a MUCH better car (even accounting for its faults). Any stigma associated with it will disappear soon.

I think the 996 is like the cashmere sweater that George Costanza bought. It was genuine cashmere. It was soft like genuine cashmere. It was warm like genuine cashmere. But it had a minor flaw that probably could have been corrected or ignored, but he couldn't give it away.

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Wake up. You're dreaming.

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The value has been going down steadily since I bought in early 2016. About -1,000/yr or so seems to be the trend. Not as bad as new cars, but not appreciation by any stretch.

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There is no "Mustang Tax"

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Not sure I agree that they're still depreciating. When I bought my '99 in spring 2013, there were a lot of "decent" Mk I coupes in the $12,000 to $15,000 range. I define decent as a good driver - around 100k miles, good condition with only minor warts. Just looking at cars.com, I'd say that's still where we're at. Also, keep in mind this is the dead time of the year, buyer's market. 6 months from now, people will be talking about values rising. Happens every year. IMHO, prices seem to have been flat for the last 5 years that I've been paying attention to the 996 market. Someday, we'll look back on this as "the good ol' days" when you could pick up a presentable 911 for under 15 large. For years, I've thought about buying a 914. After browsing yesterday for about an hour, I've come to the conclusion that the 914 ship has sailed for me - their prices have gone up markedly over the past 5 years. A 914 is definitely a toy, not suitable as a real transportation device. Not that long ago, you could get a decent one for $6,000 or $7,000. That car is now $12,000. A really good one is close to $20,000 and there are plenty on the market at well over $20k asking.

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You dodged a bullet there. I've owned 3 914s in the past. All of them were built for spit, and they have only gotten worse. FI problems, chassis weak, vague steering, wiring woes(worse than 928), junk shifter, and anemic performance. The 'best' one I had was a 74 914 with a 2.2L big bore kit. I still got owned by 240Z in all but the tightest conditions. Not that I hate the 914, but it was a compromise car and it shows. I would suggest looking at the 924 turbo if you want a collector with some upside. Those are still dirt cheap, and they should take off within 5 years. Note - turbo only, not the other 924s.

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@KCA - check this out.

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Thanks for the input - I think I've only driven a 914 one time, and that was on a test drive that lasted about 2 minutes because the car died on me and wouldn't restart. Had to push it back to the seller's house. I've always liked the looks of them, but understand that they were hardly a stellar car. I had an X1/9 as a kid, and have thought about buying one of those also, just to have. But, figured the 914 would be a better "investment" (although I hate thinking of cars as investments - I am more than happy if I can get my money back when I sell a car and have enjoyed it for free for a few years).

I seriously doubt that 996 values will suddenly go up in the future. I'm ok with that.

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You are correct in that the chart certainly seems to substantiate declining values, but take away that July 2015 outlier and it's relatively flat. Also, that chart shows 49 sales over basically an 18 month period (again, if you throw out the 7/2015 sale). I suspect during that 18 month period, there were thousands of 996s sold across the US. So, although that data does show a minor downward trend, I'd just point out that it is a short time period and very small sample size relative to the 18 years since the car was first sold new and the thousands of annual used 996 sales. But then again, I've got no hard data to support my case, just my observations, so you may very well be correct.

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There's no real viable way of knowing what the future holds for the 996. I'm sure we all want to optimistic, but in the end it's all speculation. Just like the guys who sold their air cooled before they took off, it wasn't really expected. Who knows what people will crave in the next 5, 10, hell 15 years. People may want the "first of Porsche water cooled", or for their short run of different headlights. Times change and things seem to die down, but then down the road, sometimes becomes popular again. Like girls that wear those shorts that go up their *** crack past their waist. That's an old trend that's made it's way back...., maybe the 996 is like high waist booty eaters.

Ok guise, I already bought mine & don't plan to sell in the near future, so my interest here is purely curiousity A few interesting notes from my perspective: - 996 sample is good for BaT, though it's admittedly small relative to the broader market - Look at all the 964s that didn't meet reserve! This gives me hope for the future - 993 cabs are clustered near $30k - 997s small sample size but also trending down whereas the trend for older cars 993/964 is sideways with lots of missed reserves - Carrera market overall looks soft imo, with lots of supply of 997/996 models keeping the water-cooled cars from appreciating 997 996 993 964

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/1102x680/996_99carrera_value_5260f1e8d486414ed44f1548eb2270ca03c207bd.jpeg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/1108x685/996_2002carrera_value_b40f57dd33253267376b320f38179a4a6528c72c.jpeg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/1091x672/996_gt3_value_cad69d608231286b9725c223475cb645f44921c5.jpeg

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They'll go up when I decide to sell mine. Which might be soon given that I'm super annoyed right now because of how annoying it is to change the spark plugs. I think AOS is going to be the nail in the coffin.

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I wouldn't put too much faith in Hagerty's valuation tables. They say my Alfa is worth $20,900, and my 993S is worth $114,000 - I wish. Neither car would actually sell for anywhere near that. Hagerty has an ulterior motive...they want you to insure your collector car for big dollars so they collect a bigger premium.

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/798x887/ebayauctions02_2004_40adac0ce820b17afa851733098c0a657dbc9c10.jpeg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlist.com-vbulletin/539x952/ebayauctions99_2001_3d144ef2ae883a88c166ebeb3ec2966e1a221b6b.jpeg

Anyone been tracking the 2018 numbers?

Flat. Certainly no drop around these parts (Chicagoland).

For all the nay-sayers that say they'll never come back up, check out the graph on Hagerty over the last 6 months. Meaningless short-term bump, or the beginning of a trend?

Only matters if you are trying to sell or trying to buy. On a personal level, I�d be quite happy if the 996 and 997 markets remain somewhat depressed so I can buy these amazing cars for short money.

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I got ostracized last year for suggesting low mile 996�s would be in the 30�s soon. Low and behold a 99 with 22k miles sold last month on BAT for $36k. I�ve got a 2000 with a few more options than this one in nearly perfect condition and 22k miles. I paid far less than the $36k this one brought. BAT 1999 for $36k I think one of the factors with the 996 is it was the first truly modern 911 and a majority of them have been daily driven. The survivors will soon be commanding a pretty penny.

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I guess not. A 99 with 22k miles sold for $36,000

I wonder how many oil changes these low mile examples have had these past 20 years?

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for that reason and several others I would rather have one with 80,000 that was pristine and well cared for than one that hasn�t been exercising very much for the last 18 years.

Yep, I'm not lowering the price. Granted it's not sold either, but for the truly discerning buyer who wants to own a well cared for 99 996, there is a price to pay. Best part is, if nobody wants to pay that price, I get to keep driving her everyday ��

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Mines had at least one a year. It was also driven on a schedule more or less.

I am in the market for either an early 996 or 986S. I have seen exactly one (1) decent car. But the seller was a total dipstick and I walked away. Everything I see is a “deferred maintenance “ basket case. Few do oil once per year. Many have a clutch but no IMS; plugs but no coil packs; new rotors but never flushed the brake fluid. Plenty of 80k mile cars with original water pump and serpentine belt. But they say their cars are well maintained. Good Grief. This is very frustrating. Going to narrow my search to here, Pelican, and 986 Forum. And checking often. Long way to go, but values are not going to improve as long as the available inventory is creeping toward parts or a crusher.

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I think some of your comments sort of prove my theory. You�ve looked at a bunch and you�ve seen exactly one nice car. I looked at a bunch and saw just one nice example, the one I currently own. I�m lucky that the dealer I bought it from was both a nice guy and in financial trouble. I got a great car at a steal. That being said, I looked at hundreds online and dozens in person. I ignored the ones that were 30k plus because they were out of my budget. Most were really low mile examples that I can probably assume some were nice. Heck, I looked at a 19k mile cabriolet that was a complete trash bin. Like I keep saying over and over, the nice ones are going to appreciate starting now. For Pete�s sake, over in the vehicles for sale someone is TRYING to sell an 04 C4S for $60k. He lowered the price to $49k and someone actually asked if it was still available.

What do folks think a '99 Cab in good shape mechanically but needs paint is worth? The clear coat is starting to flake off on most panels and is almost completely off the left front fender. 62k miles / original IMSb. Carfax shows possible flood/salvage title at 30 miles, but the current California title is clean and we have not been able to find any evidence of flooding. This has been the wife's daily driver for the last few years which was 30+ miles round trip. Her office is now just a mile away - no one wants a milkshake. We didn�t have any plans to sell it, but it's no longer getting driven like it should. I plan on caring for the IMSb along with the clutch when the time comes. The car has a 4 spoke steering wheel so assuming it's an early '98 build date. We have a hard top, which also needs paint. Recent work (last 3 years) include an initial visit to TRE Motorsports in 2015 for service and to give the car a thorough inspection. This resulted in an AOS replacement. All other major services performed by SP Motorsports ( http://www.spmsracing.com ) which include: 2015 - TRE - Service, tires, AOS 2016 - CocoMats - Service - Bilstein sport shocks, H&R sport springs and all bits related to that - Rear passenger side window regulator - Battery - Single DIN Alpine Radio upgrade (original working head unit retained) - Pumpkins replaced (originals retained) 2017 - Service - Water pump, thermostat etc. - Replaced both Cats - New starter (resolved the hot start issue) - Replaced gauge cluster I don't think the need for paint puts this car at "roller money", but I really don't know where to price it if we decide to sell it either. Thoughts? Not the greatest picture, just one I had handy:

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mine in 12 months was about 800 miles. dealer service too, at $420 a pop.

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Are you serious? From the sounds of it I would say it is worth whatever high-speed cab fare you have to pay to get as far from it as possible. I'd be worried about the possible salvage title. All that paint damage on a car with 66K miles? I'd pass (run) and wait for a truly clean, documented car with no stories.

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I would start with what does a '99 Cab sell for that does not need paint and does not have a salvage title? Maybe $19k. Salvage title brings it down to 14k. Paint job brings it down to 8k. So it's probably worth slightly more than a roller. You would be better off parting out this one. Be sure to sell the engine first, then the transmission, then everything else.

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he already owns the car... given the salvage title, it�s a vert, paint, headlights etc... i wouldn�t buy it for more than 3k... you know what they say about what something is worth... what someone is willing to pay for it.

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Thanks ejdoherty911. I hadn't really thought about parting it out, but will add that to the option list.

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If the above price 14k drop to 8k due to paint issue. May be worth spend 1-2k and get the paint fix up and sell for 14k?

2000 Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet 6-Speed just went for $19,950 (includes 5% buyers fee) on Bring a Trailer. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/20...11-carrera-23/

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Here�s my prediction: Magnus will buy it in 5 years for $46,000.

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BAT seems to really benefit sellers. Kelly Blue Book has a different opinion on pricing...

I think those disappointed right now that the 996 has not been an "investment" are looking at it with unrealistic time period expectations. Whether it ends up being a good investment won't be known for a long time. It wasn't that long ago that I had difficulty selling my 1987 3.2 Carrera, for basically nothing, even though it was absolutely perfect and original (though it had 100k miles). Now it would sell quickly for a LOT more. Same with my 74 911s, also perfect with totally corrected 2.7 engine, 42k miles, sold for very little. The 996 is a very special driving car in Porsche's history (it is a lot more fun to drive, and a LOT faster, and feels a lot more like a light sports car than my old 3.2 or 911s). Having a real 6-speed, when cars are no longer available in true manual, is an asset (look at the current price differences between Ferrari 430/550 in "6-speed" prices versus "F1" now that manuals are no longer available from Ferrari). In 10 or 20 years, 996's may very well be worth a significant premium over current prices -- or they might not. For every model that eventually went up, it always seemed like there were a lot cars available at rock bottom prices for a very long time. I do think the 996's, specifically the 2wd/6-speed/coupe models, will eventually go up because they are the best driving model of all modern 911's for those who like lightweight sports cars, but it will be a while before that can happen. The longer the prices linger at the bottom, and failed cars go away because of the value equation at prevailing prices, the more they will have a chance to go up long-term. At a minimum, you can buy them and not lose anything on price just paying for maintenance. You've already "won" in that regard. If you want it for investment, hold it long term and keep it stock (mods add to your maintenance (cost basis) and "difficult to reverse" mods will reduce its value significantly if the market does eventually go up).

I think 996 values will trend proportionately to 944s. i.e. All of the average or worse condition cars will never appreciate. The best examples become increasingly scarce per-capita and eventually rise a little. Maintenance sunk costs are incurred over time to maintain the top quality cars in that condition outpaces any appreciate of the base price.

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did you see the pics/ video of the car. It was in phenomenal condition

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yup. Makes me feel even better about my �00 that I paid $18,960 including sales tax for a few weeks ago. I keep posting pictures with most of replies because it�s still the honeymoon phase.

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Be forewarned that the 996 is so great to drive that the honeymoon phase lasts a long time. If your honeymoon phase lasts more than 4 years, you don't have to call anyone, it's normal ... I paid $22.5k 2 years ago for my 2000 C2. The price was far above the prevailing market, but it was very well maintained, very well optioned, and exactly what I was looking for. I didn't care then what the market price was, and I don't care now, I feel like there isn't a better "bargain" to be had on the planet than to have a car this great for $22.5k. What it will sell for is irrelevant, even if I win the lottery 5 times in a row, this car will be a keeper for life.

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pictures?

agree with peterp and Tyler H. great posts!

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Well said. I�ve chined in here several times and my comments have also referred to 6sp/coupes, not tips and cabs.

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I think it�s very region specific regarding verts. Here in Southern Cal the cabriolets are arguably more desirable than coupes. We have the best climate in the whole damn country. Heres mine...again. 😎

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For most cars, I think it's much more common that convertibles are worth more than coupes. Some people only want convertibles, so that will also be a factor that helps cabriolet value long-term. The reason I believe, for 996's specifically, that coupes will be valued more long-term is mostly because of weight and partially because of styling. If the 996 models do end up becoming valuable in the very long-term, I think the factor that will cause that is their unique position of being the only lightweight modern 911. The 996 is lighter than the 964 and 993 models that came before it and much lighter than the 997. To me, this makes the 996 feel like the 60's/early 70's 911's. At 2900 lbs, the 996 is still 400+ lbs more than those old 911's, but power steering and double the horsepower make it feel like a lightweight sports car like the very first 911's (to me anyway). The cabriolet, 4wd, and Tiptronic options add somewhere between 120 lbs to 150 lbs each (I forget the exact numbers, I have them written down somewhere and will post them later), so those options in combination add a lot to the base weight of a 2wd/6-speed/coupe. Also I think the styling of the cab is not as nice as the coupe, at least with the top on. Still, some people want convertibles (I have a friend who only buys convertibles in classic/vintage cars). If prices do rise, my guess is that among non-turbo/GT2/3 models, the 2wd/6-speed 996's will have the highest value. My feeling is that the coupe will be valued over the cab, but you could certainly make the opposite argument.

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Although Porsche built a roughly equal number of cabs and coupes, the US received proportionally more cabs. Nice coupes are harder to find in the US.

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Because a stock portfolio is so much fun to drive. "Invest all your money in 15 y/o German sports cars" said no investment banker ever. Sure, there's money to be made in old cars, it's what I do for a living. The real joy though, is in driving them all. To make any money, it takes deep pockets, tons of market analysis, a network of trusty technicians, painters and mechanics, some guesswork, a large storage facility, and at any rate- a looooonnnng time to mature. Not many folks park a 15 year old car in the garage and expect to make significant money on it 2 years later..

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Great info. When I was looking for a 996, I always wondered why there were so many cabs on the market (of course, if I was looking for a cab, there probably would have been a million coupes available ). The production numbers for each version of 996 are below (from http://howtoporsche.com/911-series/9...r-and-version/ ). When you start looking at individual models (e.g. 2wd/6-speed/Coupe or 2wd/6-speed/Cab), the total production numbers shrink quite a bit. Unfortunately, these charts don't show the Tip/6-speed breakdown.

Having 1 out of 10728 99 coupes on a worldwide production scale, just makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Ford produces 1.5 million F-150's a year (I'm guessing). Just makes owning my lowly 996 Porsche just seem all that more unique and special. What it is worth I really don't care. I'll never be disappointed and it's going to the grave with me.

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Since model years and production years don't align in the US, you can only extrapolate. My 99 is one of the 98s on the chart since it was built in March 1998. The 99 model year 996s went on sale in April 1998 in the US and the 2000s went on sale some time around September 1999. Since the 1999 model year was a little longer than subsequent years, that probably accounts for the larger number of 99s you see for sale. The economy was also red hot with all the dot com stock market money sloshing around.

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And I think 996 coupes command a slightly higher price in Chicagoland compared to cabs because they are slightly more stiff and a bit lighter.

Everyone knocks the tiptronic but compared to someone who isn�t really good at driving manual it has its advantages

so much more 4s build than regular gen2 carrera. and they carry a premium now. carrera 2 manual will be the winner i guess

Here is another view of the production numbers, a bit more insight: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...nd-dicing.html

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I downloaded the spreadsheet from that thread. It looks like the total number of C2's is as follows (if I picked the right cells): 31688 Mk1 C2 Coupe 19189 Mk1 C2 Cab 14629 Mk2 C2 Coupe 14760 Mk2 C2 Cab It would be interesting to know how many of those are Tiptronic vs. 6-speed, but I don't see Tip production numbers quoted anywhere (after a 30-second google search).

I bought the thing sure of 2 things: It was an investment in me. 4 kids, crazy travel etc. You can't buy it from me. Not for sale ever. I am putting multiple thousands in the beast in 2 weeks. I actually cannot wait. Will be that more savage IMO.

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None of this matters, I wouldn't sell mine for $524,846. lol Seriously, though, it doesn't matter. If you're buying a car for investment purposes, you need to stick to air cooled or Italian cars. It's just a bad idea to buy any car with hopes it'll be worth more than you paid for it. Buy a car, drive it, enjoy it, and when it's time to get rid of it, sell it. You'll never get your money back! I never stress over the value of my car, ever. The purchase price is never the true cost of the car anyway. Think of all the maintenance, repairs, and upgrades. Add it up, and my 2001 Carrera has $20,768 worth of repairs, maintenance, and upgrades. Now, add that to my $20,000 purchase price (from 1.5 years ago) and I'm looking at a $40,768 car. Simply put, it's not about money or values, it's about the passion and pure enjoyment. Truth be told, if someone offered me $524,846 for my car, I'd sell it. Then I'd turn around and buy another one for $20,000!!

Patience. 996's aren't there yet. My friend had the same complaint roughly 8 years ago about his 993 C2. He is the first owner and today is smiling. But he won't ever sell it so what's the point? 914's were garbage until the past 18 months, even the Flat 6 version....look at them now. I'm seeing 944S2's in the high $20K range. Patience.

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If you can wait 20 years maybe, but I doubt it, they just made to damn many of them...

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Honestly, even if these cars tripled in 20 years, I still don�t think they would be good investments. $60k in 20 years minus $50,000 in repairs and maintenance ($2500/yr average) minus 2% per year for inflation minus $20k initial investment minus insurance costs = HUGE LOSS.

Most any car purchased as an investment needs to be rare or have distinct characteristics that separate it from the masses. The 996 was the "commoner" 911 and the brand has since been bastardized by the VW group since with release of SUVs. Now every soccer mom and hockey dad can own a Porsche. To echo the sentiments of many others on this thread, the 996 is a drivers car owned by those who love to tinker with their vehicle. No garage queens here. If you want to buy and let it sit to collect value go Italian or old British or even vintage American SUVs (has anyone seen what a Jeep Waggoner commands these days?)

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+1 Exactly.

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On the other hand, you drove the crap out of a super nice car for 20 years and it only cost you about $1000 a year To be honest, I think the scenario you described is what most people mean when they say "investment" in the context of a 996. I might be wrong, but I don't think most of them mean they will make a killing, or even make a profit, but just that the car will increase in value so that their costs, while they enjoyed an amazing car, are eventually balanced out, in part or in full, by appreciation. I don't think the maintenance costs you've quoted above are realistic over a 20 year period. Once the trouble/neglected areas are corrected, 996's are super reliable, so I don't think you would see an ongoing $2500 per year consistently over a 20 year period. Most who have seen those types of expenses are catching up from past neglect, which is common at the current price point. My 2 996's have been the most reliable cars I've owned. Also, if somebody was really buying it as a pure investment, they'd probably only drive it 500 or 1000 miles a year -- just enough to keep it fresh but not enough to put too many miles on it -- and their maintenance costs would be almost nothing but oil changes once the car is sorted. Also, they would keep the car bone stock, so most of the "maintenance" money people have spent on modded wheels, engine/exhaust upgrades interior mods, ... they would not incur at all because anything non-stock will decrease value a lot. Also, there are a large number of parted out 996's out there, so restoration costs are pretty minimal when original parts are available used at low prices.

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All good points. But even if we take a best-case scenario where someone would only need to spend $200/yr on maintenance/repairs, $150/yr on Insurance, $100/yr on registration/plates/tags, not to mention storage costs, that�s still $9,000 over 20 years for basically not really driving the car much or at all. So a $29k investment that returns $60k when sold, less $10k inflation costs still only equates to a $20k gain (about $83/month). My point is, people are looking at �values� and not realizing that the whole point of having low values is what has allowed them to take advantage of being able to drive a 911 for �cheap� in the first place. And that values aren�t how folks can make money - and to your point, LOSE LESS.

I'm in Texas....every other pickup truck ad goes something like this.... $12,000 off the list price (F150s, RAMS, Chevy, Nissan & Toyotas). Since I only paid $13.000 for my Millennium Edition 911 two years ago (#602) with 109,000 miles. I've now a different outlook on the value of my 911. Where you stand on something depends upon where you sit. MNC-I

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i think the wish for most of us is we end up owning these cars for �free�.