Dont put too much money on these cars

These cars are cheap, but factory, aftermarket parts and labor is not.... I was involved on some curb damage recently (scraped bumper, passenger radiator & condenser bent) and long story short, the repairs where like $3000.. My car has the factory aero kit, front bumper is $4000 and taco spoiler is $6000 if you buy these brand new. My guess is that if someone rear ends my vehicle one day, it will be probably totaled by the insurance company and they will pay book value plus maybe some minor aftermarket parts. If the repair cost + salvage value > 75% book value then it is lost and sure you can buy back your car with a salvage title but resell price is much lower and not all insurance companies will insure it and even if they do, the monthly bill wont be as before. Imagine if you spend $3000 on a coilover system and the next day someone hits you? You probably wont have enough time to take out the aftermarket suspension and put the OEM one. Just my thought...

Or stop driving into curbs!

Actually this is why I like my 996....There's plenty of money left for mods and upgrades after the initial purchase.

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exacly, or I can just leave it on the garage forever or sell it to a person that will never have an accident

I actually got rear ended (at about 3miles per hour) in my Aero kit car. Cracked the tail light, some spider cracks in the bumper and a 2' crack on the bottom of the aero kit deck lid. Initial estimate was $1850. By the end, it was $8,500 in damage. I think if the insurance company knew how much it was going to be when they started it may have been totaled. Mind you, this is for damage that unless you really looked for it you never would notice. The were able to fix the aero kit wing, but it needed a new bumper cover, and they could not find a good used one, so a new one went on. They also had to paint the rear quarters to get the paint to blend.

German sports cars expensive to repair. Dozens shocked. Film at 11.

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Honda civic entry fee, Porsche 911 maintenance fee. I always caution those on Reddit about being deceived into thinking they can afford a 996 b/c they are so cheap to buy, only to realize they cannot afford to own a 996 after the fact.

The most expensive car you can buy is a cheap german car.

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LOL...good one!

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Smashing cars up is expensive, I think we can all agree on that

As stated it on these forums many times.... there are no cheap 911s. None. Zero. You either pay up front or pay as you go. I know there is always the owner who chimes in "I paid $12,000 for mine and have only spent $700 over the last twelve months." Well that's great but not doing the maintenance on a cheap porsche 911 with no maintenance history available, probably means it actually needs $9,000 in deferred maintenance. I have spent more on my 2002 in three years than I paid for it. Never add up your receipts!!

I paid the long dollar for a perfect specimen of a 996 Aero. The actual maintaining was not bad, my upgrades were expensive. I was fooled to think there is a higher probability of IMS failure then there really is. Wasted thousands on IMS , and mine was perfect. There is a 996 facebook world wide group, no one on there actually owns a 996 that had catastrophic engine failure due to IMS. Has anybody here actually owned a 996 that did implode because of IMS failure? Not because of poor maintaining engine or money shift , but actual failure.

I do not understand why some people here bother with these cars, there is so much negative posts in reference to the 996, that really makes me wonder why do these people own one. I am a new owner of an 02 4S and yes I spect to spend some money on the car, and the minute I do not feel is worth it to me I will sell it, period. In the mean time, I am planning to drive it like I stoled it.

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Same! I'm still considering a respray of mine, because it really would look nice with it, but it's just hard to justify the cost knowing it's a $25k car, maybe $27k after a shiny new paint job, which would cost me anywhere from $7k-11k, is what I've been quoted. I'm just too close to moving into a 997.2 C2S, so in the end I can't make myself do it yet.

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Most who own 996's don't give a rat's a$$ about the opinions of masses who regurgitate the same old press. Those that do.. well, their social anxiety will eventually get the better of them

The people who can't handle the cost will be quickly escorted to the door. The first invoice for $3,700 comes in, they clench their teeth and pray it's a "one time thing." Then the next quote comes in 6 mos later for $2,800 and it's TIME TO SELL!! Pray you don't need a full exhaust cause that's gonna cost $5,000 minimum.

Thus my search for a higher mileage driver with good service history, I don't care about good paint!

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You just accurately described the Sunk Cost Fallacy I get the emotional attachment because I have it too. However, spending over half the value of the car in repairs doesn't make it necessarily the right thing to do, and I don't blame anyone for walking away.

Wait! Repairs are expensive?? How about my buddy at the office who hit a truck retention strap, those wide yellow ones from flatbed 18 wheelers, with his 2005 Ford Mustang with a few Steeda upgrades. Initial estimate was $8500 and actual is going to be almost $12K! And he shut the motor off immediately so it did not blow. Costs are for a new oil pan, new gas tank (yes the piece hit the oil pan first and then was kicked up into the fuel tank, plus a rear bumper cover, some bodywork and paint. Labor is the highest cost. So this crap about German cars being expensive, all cars that are fun are expensive. Especially when **** happens.

This thread is pure gold

It would appear that money spent at Suncoast is not an investment.

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So I should NOT have invested in my crest valve stem caps? Dangit.

For me, it�s about the balance between enjoyment and angst. If I did my due diligence, I didn�t jump into a money pit. If I have a solid plan for the 996 I have, with realistic options for some expensive �detours� like an engine rebuild/refresh, then I will definitely enjoy the journey. I really get a kick out of wrenching on my P-cars. What a rush to get things working and looking just the way I think they should. This is my second 996 and I keep learning more about the truth of these cars...not the �trollth�. Go fast and take chances. It�s a Porsche for crying out loud! There really is �no substitute�. and Woodman, those colored valve stem caps are an investment in pure class baby.

But wait, all these people paying top dollar for old issue air cooled 911s,wait until they get the needed maintenance done and find out the rates are the same as the newer ones that need a lot less maintenance.

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My dual-row IMS bearing on my 99 996 cab failed (partially - one of the two rows failed) at 76,000 miles back in 2015. "Lucky for me", the water pump failed spectacularly at about the same time, sending plastic bits everywhere that coolant can go and requiring a tear-down to properly clean it out (it's necessary in order to avoid clogged coolant passages that ultimately crack the head, more on that if you'd really like to know). As a result of the complete tear-down, the IMS shaft came out (with the bearing attached). The rubber parts of the seals were gone. The outer row's bearing cage had broken. The inner row's bearing cage was still holding together and was all that saved the car. Fortunately, none of the rest of the motor seems to have been impacted at all by any pieces. No scratched bores, all major components measured and in spec. Reassembled with all original components except for a new IMS shaft with new bearing (OEM original stock, sold as a complete unit), timing chain/tensioners/guides, a few updated internal parts used on later 996's, and the other usual bearings and seals, etc. 18,000 miles since then and no problems whatsoever.

I know the feeling, in addition to the 996 I made a commitment to my wife. Constant maintenance and periodic high priced enhancements. The resale market stinks, and absolutely no chance of being totaled.

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New to this forum, and looking at possibly purchasing one of these cars as a daily driver, I am searching to gain knowledge regarding Porsche ownership. Would numbers above be more indicative of ownership of purchasing a 996 give the general age and condition of the vehicle available? Or more variable based on purchase condition?

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If you have to pay someone else to fix anything that goes wrong, then yes, those numbers are representative and it will be expensive to maintain. If you're not a DIY maintenance kind of person and you're looking for reasonable maintenance costs, I would not recommend getting an older car (of any kind, Porsche or otherwise). However, if you're a DIY person that personally performs all of the low to mid difficulty maintenance, it's not normally too expensive to own a 996. A 996 in the right condition could be a great daily driver with reasonable maintenance costs. We've had ours for 14 years and drive it daily. We have had some very expensive maintenance due to the engine tear-down required as a result of an unusually bad water pump failure (what was unusually bad about it is that my wife drove it for several miles as the water pump was failing, so it ate itself and sent plastic everywhere). If I'd already been on the regular maintenance cycle of replacing the water pump and IMS bearing every 3-5 years (depending on driving), then this would not have been an expensive car for us to maintain.

There are several different categories of spending. First catagory is the "have to". Even this catagory is open for debate. I consider these to be oil and filter changes and repairing anything that will lead to further failure or damage. Items can include worn out suspension pieces, coil packs, engine sensors, cracked coolant reservoir, etc. You can live with some of these for a short time, but they will ultimately cause problems. This is where people get the "I only spent $700 on maintenance last year". Second catagory are those items that will eventually wear out that need to be replaced before they do. I consider these items to be the IMS bearing, chain guides, brake pads and rotors, etc. The third catagory are the run to failure and unfortunate failures including items such as the alternator, battery, water pump, IMS bearing (before you, or a previous owner got around to changing it out), bore scoring, etc. Some 996s go 30k miles before a failure and others go 150k. The fourth catagory would be those things that bug you, but don't affect the function of the car. These could include interior components or something that is damaged, but functional such as a cracked bumper or scuffed wheels. The fifth catagory includes the "want to" items such as LED lights, suspension upgrades, exhaust upgrades, wheels, etc. I has spent several thousand on these, but they make me happy. So the answer to how much it costs per year to maintain a 996 will fall somewhere between about $700 and several thousand depending on what you consider maintenance and how many "second catagory" items are due. As others said. This rule applies to all cars. The only difference is that some of the Porsche parts are more expensive than a Ford or Honda.

For me, cars are my hobby,my passion. I don't dwell on the money spent as long as I'm happy with the end result...driving pleasure. Hobbies are "pay as you go" endeavors. Imagine looking for a return for golfing, owning horses, boating, sky diving, etc., etc, or what ever else gets your adrenaline flowing! I do shop around to get the best prices, but only to have enough $$ to get more stuff!!

If you are looking for a return after putting a bunch of money into your 996 or another hobby car than you are in the wrong hobby.

There is no question that Porsche parts, for the most part, are some what expensive. Having said that, one thing I have notice during my brief ownership of a Porsche (3 weeks) is that with a bit of patient the exactly same part a specialty shop sells at a premium can be had at a much reasonable price.

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Here here! I am not spending money on a car, I am spending money on a pastime.

I think this is known to most people OP. Even though it costs $15k to buy right now, loaded 996 cars were getting close to $100k when new. So parts and maintenance cost associated with ownership will be based on their initial price. There is a reason why most people dump their German luxury cars when warranty period ends, and you see the prices of those cars fall off the cliff at the time time.

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This is the right answer to any and all above questions / statements. You don't purchase a 996 because you need it for transportation or work vehicle or any other reason that would be considered a logical automobile purchase. This are a hobby, passion or special interest. Not a logical automobile purchase. Investment in having something you want, cost money. Don't b���h, if the pleasure doesn't equal dollars, don't buy one , simple.

I feel very much wanting to go into this with eyes wide open. I also see it as more than just transportation. Getting involved with maintenance like oil, brakes or things that do not require dropping engines or transmissions is more my level. Being in the early phase of research (which is also fun) I am thinking nice specimen well cared for may run in high 20�s low 30�s. My girlfriend wants me to get a car I can be passionate for and a 996 is one I am starting to seriously consider. I definitely is and exciting option.

I'm not a mechanic by any stretch of the imagination but I enjoy working on my 996. It is a passion for me. When my other cars need repair or maintenance I drop them off at a service station.

There are ways to manage costs. Did you look up the cost of a used bumper? Parts can be salvaged off a car that was smashed in the rear, for example. You can get a front bumper for $500-$700 https://www.ebay.com/bhp/porsche-996-bumper Here are bumpers for $1000-$1500 http://www.gettydesign.com/996tailba...and-splitters/ Here are bumpers for $300-$500 http://www.duraflexbodykits.com/pors...d-aerodynamics Even a basic OEM bumper is $1000 https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog...BDYBMP_pg1.htm

Can't you get agreed value insurance in the good ol' US of A?? I.e. you set the value of what the car is worth rather than book value. +996 cost money to keep this car rolling, just how it is... You can however choose OEM parts and hunt for deals, do work yourself etc...

I am happily agreeing on this one. Don't put too much money in these if it makes you feel like you are supporting a money pit. I am a proud owner of my first Porsche. 2 months into this love affair, I have had to do some required repairs, some fun repairs and some just flat out cool little items that make me smile purchases and it costs some money. It took me 51 years to get me my dream car and I am having a blast. I drive it like I stole it when not worried about getting a ticket and then listen to my mechanic when he says "you gotta do this now!". I have a decent income and manage my life pretty well (and will never be able to get into a new P, but...)and am sure I will freak when I get that $4k bill, but I have already accepted that. It is the pleasure I derive from sitting in the seat and feel the road. I have always been into road race/crotch rockets so speed is in me, but this is now my love. I travel full time so it isn't my daily driver, but when I am home it gives me pure pleasure to just pull the cover off and grin! I am sure I will put as much as I paid for the car into future repairs and more. Who cares? When you buy any used vehicle, the same can be said. I am just not adding or saving up to total the bills on this one!

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your girlfriend is a keeper. This is the voice of experience. 👍

Anyone who buys any car for an investment, should never drive it. Period. Otherwise, spend the money you need to spend on it. A lot of enthusiasts have emotional attachments to their car(s). For me, my 996 is likely the one thing I own that I love the most. If I need to spend $5,000 to get something repaired, then I'll spend $5,000. Case in point, I had a 1997 Boxster for eight years. I paid $4,000 for the car, spent over $14,000 in eight years on maintenance, and sold it for $6,000. That's just the cost of ownership! I love my car and, not only do I want to keep it in great shape, I also want to keep it reliable and on the road. It's a daily driver for me. Every single car ever made will cost money to repair, so if I have to pay for a repair, I'd rather spend the money on a car I love as opposed to something like a Camry. You should see the repair bills for my friend's 1997 Ferrari F355. He bought it new, it's been in two major accidents, and still (to this day) wins concours events. He's spent over a million dollars over the two+ decades he's owned it (including purchase price). It's not always about recouping your expenses. You'll just never do that with a car.

My 996 is a collector car and is of course perfectly maintained. Oil changed monthly, water pump twice a year, IMS SUPER DUPER upgraded of course, never seen rain and dry washed with imported special space age materials. I look at all internet aftermarket parts sellers and blogs for advice and replace all perfectly good working parts with other new parts. I have very expensive agreed amount insurance so I am not worried about an accident. Of course, she is rarely driven for fear of, you know an ____________ I cant bring myself to even say it outloud. My car is special.

I know what I have

Let�s see what happens when this proposed tariff on foreign cars goes into effect... 500000 German cars were imported out of 8.2million...25% tax is what I read. I�m probably gonna order a bunch of parts and then sell them once I get inventory up ����������

I love these cars and have put money into them on aftermarket parts and I even do my own maintenance on them and dont find it that expensive to be honest. The point that I was trying to make is that you have to have the mentality that even if you put a lot of money on aftermarket parts, insurance companies will not care and will only pay book value if you get involved on an accident that the cost to repair + salvage value is more than book value which is very low for these cars... Would you feel good if you spend $5000 on a suspension and the next day you get rear ended by someone? I definitely would not.

It's not about the money, it's about the passion, just like most good things in life.

OP, I’d feel much, much worse if I just got rear-ended in my 500 mile, $120,000 GTS. What a depreciation hit!

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I quoted Hagerty on stated value insurance as pleasure vehicles (stated mileage 4k/year iirc), they are remarkably good! PCA discount as well. I think it might even be cheaper than my 5 car Allstate plan. Although I have to do some math. Allstate allows me to put any car in "storage" mode which is very cheap. And you still get two 4 day temporary "on" while still paying "storage" rates.

By the way, the entire premise of this thread is wrong. If the market value of your 996 suddenly dropped to $50 are you telling me you would not change the oil anymore? Just throw the car away once you get a $51 repair bill?

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I wouldn't feel good if I got rear ended by someone regardless of whether or not I just spent $5,000 on suspension.

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Thats perfect logic. An oil change is more than 50 bucks...Id beat on the car like it owed me money and then buy another one for 50 bucks. youre argument doesnt make much sense.

I'm just frustrated with the thread title! Who puts money "on" a car? Is it a poker pun - as in you're betting on the 996? Should't it have been " Don't put too much money into these cars " or is this a standard phrase that I don't understand because i'm upside down?! Hahha

The correct way to frame this is that a new 911 will cost you $125,000 So, a $4k repair on your $25k car puts you at $29,000 Still far ahead of the substitute good value.

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Then you find out the replacement car was sold because it needs an oil change.

Couldn't this be said about any car? You can overbuild anything that insurance won't cover. Buy a civic, put 10k in mods into it, crack it up and Progressive gives you the $2500 it was worth..... I find most people under insure everything anyway to try and save a buck on a monthly basis which always bites them in the *** when **** happens. If you have put that much into your Porsche (or anything for that matter) have it appraised by a professional, all mods notated and insure it accordingly. You will have no problems. You need to pay to play my friend and this isn't a cheap sport!

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Great comment, I agree with everything you said. I wonder if there is any "aftermarket parts" insurance company, where they would cover the cost of aftermarket parts minus depreciation in case your vehicle gets totaled.

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Some of these bumpers are not OEM and putting a basic OEM bumper on a car that came with a factory aero kit is not desirable. The car would look odd by having the basic bumper with side skirts and taco wing...

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I don't think you need a 'aftermarket parts' insurance company. You could take all the receipts of the parts you add to your car and run it by your insurance agent. They give you a quote of your car + parts added. They just charge you more monthly and not based on market value of a car without those parts. Keep in mind if your suspension is 5k they probably let you add 3500 value but obviously you pay for it in your premium. Expert can chime in on insurance practice. But those guys will insure anything as long as you are willing to pay for it.

BTW they may have risk model, whether added parts are performance or stock replacement. If they deem upgrade suspension means higher performance and you are higher risk of accident then the increase in premium is probably not linear.

Not too much $, but some nice wax... ok

Its the same as with homeowners. Insurance companies deem a replacement cost based on several factors, you can change those factors as long as you are willing to pay. Lets say you have custom kitchen cabinets that cost you 75k, well if you don't point that out to your agent, and you suffered a kitchen fire they may only want to pay out 25k based on their computer program saying its worth x. You add 10k wheels to your 1997 Olds cutlass you tell them that. You will pay accordingly, but be covered. Again the issue is people like to cheap out on insurance. Lesson of the day, over insure, not under. No I am not in the insurance field....

For me I cannot justify having anything more than the bare minimum insurance legally required to drive the car. I paid cash for it and use it strictly as a toy, ive never been in a wreck that was my fault or no fault. Dash cams are for sure the best insurance policy one can carry imo.

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I had the same reaction to the title, but I�m someone who makes a living with the English language so I tend to notice these kinds of things every damn day.

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Moburki We have allstate w/ 3 cars. I never heard of that storage mode . Do you have to surrender your plates and then get them reissued? I am in New York, so my car sits for the entire winter, but I still pay full insurance unless I surrender plates?

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Not sure if it's different state to state. I call my agent and ask them to put my car in storage and it's taken care of. Still licensed. After the initial 30 days, I can take them out twice a month for up to four days each. I can even have two out for four days at once. It's a great deal for sure.

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As many have said if you can afford the car and still have money for repairs go for it. I have had my '04 C4S a little over a year now and stepped into P car ownership for 30K. I know I do not have the skillset to work on the car myself so I found a good Indy. First year I had about $6K in maintenance cost. 1. I drove it for 1,000 miles (it had a fresh oil change before purchase) I had the oil and tiptronic fluids and filter changed with a metal inspection for both. 2. At about six months the AOS went. While it was in the shop with the engine out I had my indy inspect the trans mount because I was getting hard shifts into 1st gear when I would get on it. Yes the mount was bad and the Indy said the motor mounts were almost shot and it would be wise and cheaper to do while the engine was already down. 3. On the test drive after the AOS the alternator quit. Indy said if they damaged it they would replace it. Unfortunately, it's lifespan just quit at 14.5 years old. 4. I replaced both sunvisors because the mirror covers broke and being a cabriolet I thought it looked tacky. I got both visors from a salvage yard for $180. 5. It is going in for an oil change this week and I need a new frunk release because it only works 60% of the time and the 40% it does not is when I need to get into the trunk. All the repairs I have done so far are either routine or pretty much parts that need replacement at this age. However, I had wanted a 911 style car for 31 years and enjoy every time I get behind the wheel. Good luck with whatever decision you make.

It�s pretty simple, if you are worried about putting maintenance into an older model Porsche (whether you can DIY maintenance or not), don�t buy one. I paid $24,500 for a 2nd owner 2000 996 Guards Red with 30,086 original miles, original paint and interior which was almost brand new condition, on it 4 years ago. During a PPI, the Porsche specialist Indy shop noticed a miniscule amount of metal filings in the oil filter, recommended the IMS upgrade kit, new rear main seal, 30k major service interval, clutch R&R and other items while the tranny was out. I split the cost of the repairs with the seller, easily could have put off the maintenance but simply wasn�t worth it. 4 years later, the most expensive repair I had in not even 3,000 miles of driving was a cracked coolant reservoir, until last Wednesday. Took the car in for basic maintenance, my local Indy shop recommended a 90k service interval, 4 new tires (right rear passenger tire had slice in it to the cords and shard of metal was still in the tire, tires were over 7 years old although tremendous amount of tread left on them), both rear struts/shocks leaking - one heavily, recommended new trunk struts, passanger window actuator, gas cover lock actuator and several other items - $6,150 later. Bottom line, no one loves getting hit with a $6k repair bill but I love my car and it is worth every penny. Have had it independently appaised in Excellent condition and have it insured through Haggerty�s for the value it appraised at (and it is all stock). Bottomline, you can either afford the maintenance or you can�t - if you can�t, don�t buy the car. The maintenance is worth the investment from a driving aspect to enhance performance as well as an investment standpoint. This model has bottom out in price and won�t drop any lower, unless you choose not to maintain the vehicle or put a ridiculous amount of miles on the car. Pretty difficult to find 996�s in any year that have no paint work, no body work and have been exceptionally maintained. If you have one, hold onto it, they will go up in value over time...IN THE INTERIM, enjoy the hell out of the car. One of the best performing cars on the market for the price range in a very limited production run vehicle.

Like most I've read here, I always wanted a 911 and the 996 satisfies that need. My 99 C2 has high mileage, but came with a decent service history with a fresh IMS, RMS and clutch by a reputable indy in TX. The test drive was impressive and really no issues, squeaks or rattles to speak of and I was hooked. That was in February of this year. The first day after buying it I put a new set of spark plugs in and just enjoyed the drive. It already had H&R Sport springs on the Bilsteins, an aftermarket oem looking aero front bumper and skirts, 996 GT3 wheels, and a 996 GT3RS rep wing and LED tails. The exhaust was Fabspeed knockoff muffler bypass tips, and the stock cats were still in place. There was a K&N intake in the frunk. I was comfortable at the $13,500 I paid for it and still am. Since that time I have built a new Borla based exhaust for it, removing the cats. I've installed new idler pulleys, new oil fill tube, new water pump and tstat, and all engine and under car related coolant hoses. As I'm speaking, I just lost the alternator the other day..literally. The mounting ear snapped, cocking the alternator up and eating thru the new oil fill tube, and shredding the new belt. Through research I found that this is not uncommon, and ordered the 997 part to replace it. I also discovered the rear mounting ear on my alternator is cracked too.. so I picked up another one of those too. All this should be arriving sometime this week and I can drive my car again. This is on top of the almost $700 I spent at Pelican for 4 new O2 sensors and 3 new timing chain tensioners a few weeks ago. Do I mind? Not really, I look at it this way.. nothing lasts forever, and to my knowledge (and inspection) most of these parts appear to be original equipment, they've done their job. ...although an early 1998 model with 175k miles currently that is hard to believe. I just know it runs well, when it runs and the engine is the original. I'm planning an engine out party at 200k..I feel by then she's earned it. Oh and it has a factory ordered LSD as pretty much the only option. Born to be driven. The first 2 weeks I had it I built the exhaust and took my son to FL to Werks Reunion in Amelia Island. A month after that the whole family went to Asheville, NC for a week over spring break. Loving this car and not regretting my purchase a bit.

So that's what that wing is for... Just kidding Great looking car, and a happy family - what more can you ask for

M-I-A-T-A. Miata is always the answer if economics is part of your fun car equation. They are tough and cheap to run. Horsepower is merely a function of your budget. I have and enjoy both.... and other cars.