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YOUR RESEARCHHorsepower Upgrades
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Install on a 2009 997
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Here is a link to the Fabspeed X-pipes installed on a 2009 997.
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In fact, MANY people have used dyno testing before/after the various common mods (chips, headers, intakes, exhaust, plenum) and had a loss of power.
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Suggestion
When messing with intake and exhaust it's wise to check your fuel mixture on a dyno.
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Suggestion
However, you're better off changing the suspension.
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P-dealer tells me that for $3,000+ or - he will install new intake and exhaust and chip my 2004 C4S. He estimates 10% more HP. I did a Rennlist search for "performance upgrades" and didn't come up with much. I'm sure Rennlisters have experience with these mods. How did they work for you? Also, any particular upgrades to consider or avoid? Thanks.
Don't use the dealer, your 3K can travel much further elsewhere.
For Chip: Softronics has a good product for our cars that complements the mods.
Intake: OEM x51 from the 997S or the EVOMS product for much less $$
Exhaust is pure personal preference on sound and none of them make any real hp. The power is in the deletion of the cats or high flow units and a good set of headers (factory X51 from the 997S is a great option).
Or skip all the above and spend a bit more money in one shot and go straight to a SC setup giving you well over 400HP
Good luck
A chip doesn't void the CPO? That's a surprise. I'd get it in writing.
Let me be the first of many to warn you that $3k no matter where you spend it won't buy you 32 hp.
Heres what I did for 04 C4S.
K&N air intake ($250) , IPD Plenum ($1000), ZTech complete SS exhaust ($2600), REVO Stage 2 ecu ($1100)
Tremendous difference in feel and response and power. Tried to dyno, but wouldnt run on dyno. Have to go to Mustang dyno which is out of town. Simular mods have posted here in the 365 to 385 range.
If you do what I did, its worth it. What ever anyone else does, I dont know about.
Oh dear God, here we go again with inflated claims of hp and drivers willing to be separated from their wallet. Short of bolting on a SC or upgrading to a TT, you are better of saving your money for better things.
Porsche sells one of the very few true power upgrades for the 996, the x51 package. It costs more than $3k, it includes lots of changes, and increases power by 25 hp. Nearly every other change people talk about making 'to improve power' is snake oil. Certainly I would be skeptical of 32 hp claim for $3k. In fact, MANY people have used dyno testing before/after the various common mods (chips, headers, intakes, exhaust, plenum) and had a loss of power. Very few people have proven power increase, and most of those are very small increases (~5-10 hp). For extra special fun, do a search on IPD Plenum and pop some corn.
Are you all about power? Put in a supercharger and be done. But expect it to cost you $12k+.
If you take the dealer up on his offer, get it all in writing, and insist on dyno before and after with a money-back guarantee. They will never agree to it, which should tell you something.
What I can say is if you want more power, just sell your car and then go for a 996 TT.
I think that you won't notice any increase of 10 or 20 h. power...
It would be only 'placebo effect'
You can spend a lot of money to get aprox. 12-18 HP. (chips, manifold, sport exhaust, air filter, plenum, ....
)
Really? The result probably will be insignificant compared to the amount of money.
A 996 Carrera (3.4 or 3.6 ) is a great car, but they are what everybody knows.
IMHO if you want
something more
, the best option is change the ride.
I did the intake/chip/exhaust route. It lasted about 2 years; then I needed more and got a supercharger. You could save yourself about $2000 by skipping the cold air intake and chip. The plenum and exhaust will help regardless, but you really need to consider your specific "needs" before jumping in half way.
go to the track and spend some time with the "guys"
Ask questions, drive the car and then think about whats right for you. IMHO... it will save you a lot of mistakes, money and time
Depends what you want for a final result. Want to be fast on the street buy a TT. If you want to be fast on track suspension and seat time. Just my 02 after spending 10's of thousands on different cars trying to get a higher HP # then being passed on the track with cars that have 300+ less HP then me. You can buy a 600 hp twin turbo in the mid 40's in todays economy.
You'd probably get more real world performance out of a different Ring and pinion set or re-gearing the tranny completely than you'd get out of HP mods that would make you a few extra HP.
Other than the K&N intake (which I regret BTW) I havn't done a single power modification to my car that wasn't already on there when I bought it.
Other than eliminating the cats and MAYBE a pulley (which won't increase HP but will reduce drag and keep the Power steering safe) I can't say there's really much that I'd still be willing to do unless the motor has to be torn down at some point in the future.
Andy
Bolt on performance increases can be dramatic, especially with an ECU flash thats designed to work with those enhancements specifically.
The big gains come from internal modifications, like the 3.4>3.6 & 3.6>3.8 big bore engines. This is especially true when performance camshafts are applied that are designed specifically for the larger bores. Couple these to a pair of cylinder heads that are ported and polished and it's quite easy to add 70- 100 HP to pretty much any engine with the necessary bolt on optimizations and the ECU flash.
And at the same time you'l be applying technology that was primarily designed to address the reliability issues of the M96 engine that have given it a bad reputation.
That's such a challenge that I would sell a 385 market to you ALL DAY LONG. 10-20hp max. Don't get me wrong, I've chipped my car and think I feel the difference, but I don't have objective concrete evidence. It certainly 'seems' to pull harder. And mind you, I have the 2000 which arguable has more room for improvement. Frankly, it's only worth it if you do it because you LOVE the sound of the exhaust (I love my Ruf). However, you're better off changing the suspension. RoW was my favorite mod in the world. Well, that and the exhaust.
Ray,
I am wrong so often I'm really getting used to it. NOS would if fact get you 32 hp and more for under $3k. I'm not sure how usable the power would be but it would be there. Now if I can just figure out where to hide the bottle in my cup car
Jim
Jim, just empty out the contents of the fire extinguisher bottle and fill it with NO. No one will ever know!
You don't need no stinkin' fire extinguisher!
I've started fights on other forums with this, but IMHO here's the best bet for ur money...
1. The MK1 DIY exhaust mod on 3.6 cans.
2. BMC F1 filter in the stock air box.
3. Ditch the spare tire and tools.
Anything else is just not cost effective.
Then, just be greatful you're not driving a Honda everyday...Sorry Tim!
If you want to go fast on the street (is that legal or even safe?), get a used TT.
If your destination is the track, instead of spending not-inconsiderable money on debatable power upgrades, why not remove mass and improve your suspension/tires?
Want more HP? Take your 996 to the track and run her till she blows. Then pick up the December issue of Excellence magazine and let those guys redo your motor. You'll pay $20k for 100+ more horses, but you will really get 100 more horses IMHO. Plus, while you're at the track, you will have a great time improving your driving skills.
Other than that, save you money and be happy with the driving experience your 996 offers.
After my years experience and dollars spent, I'll tell you this is sound advice.
Well, in that case, no Nitrous you! One can not allow himself to get dehydrated during an enduro!
Like I said, you don't need no stinkin' fire extinguisher!
Mark, I said that
JIM
didn't need no stinkin' fire extinguisher. I didn't say anything about Chuck!
Oh man, when Chuck reads this, he's going to call me a ********..... again!
What about the exhaust manifold? The Porsche design is really lacking IMO. I feel like a lot of performance can be gained using equal length headers and a better collector. Maybe this is not the case for a flat 6? I am just using a first level approach to this and going on what typically works on other cars. Supersprint makes a beautiful set, and probably one of the best designed/tested, but im sure beyond my budget.
If your destination is the track, before spending any money on the car, spend your budget on seat time.
IMO, there is no reason to get more HP just to say you have it. And getting to the the speed limit a little faster really isn't that cool.
-td
The only ones worth having are the Suncoast / Evo ones (same headers sold through both places). They actually have a longer primary tube design which is nice but even then good luck finding dyno-proven power gains. Feedback seems to be that they're good for a few extra ponies > 5000rpm but at the cost of a good bit of torque down low. My car had GHL headers on there when I got it which frankly don't look any better than the stock design but time and time again it seems as though it's tough to improve on the factory unit here.
However Cat delete pipes or sport cats will get you power everywhere in the power band. There's no contradicting views on this from anyone...sport cats or no cats will make power period. It's all in if you're prepared for a CEL with the delete pipes or not.
When I removed both the cats and the mullers from my old X51 race car I gained 17 hp and similar torque above about 5500 but the car lost significant torque below 4500. Actually the car was worthless below 4500. Fine for the track but not what you want on the street.
This was the straight out the back stup or still with mufflers?
I'm thinking about removing the cats next year but leaving the mufflers in place instead so I don't have to switch out to muffler bypass pipes each time I go to the track. That got old really quick last year so I just left the bypass pipes on there all summer which was a headache of a different sort.
Hmmm..
What would be the cost of a reasonably high capacity "old folks" oxygen converter/separator/generator and how much oxygen could be "pumped" into the engine intake from one of those. For every percent of nitrogen displaced thereby, a percent of engine HP/torque would be gained
Might the "separated" nitrogen be used to reduce pumping loses during idle and cruise (non-acceleration)..??
Andy,
I am following Jim B's lead on this one. I'll let you know shortly about the cat bypass pipes. I'll pop mine on as soon as I cut a stuck O2 sensor out of the used bypass pipes and get a helicoil in there.
My plan for next spring track season is 997S X51 headers (on the car now), Cat bypass pipes and the muffler bypass pipes.
-Paul
FYI.. When messing with intake and exhaust it's wise to check your fuel mixture on a dyno. There is a point at which your ECU won't compensate and you end up lean. That can get expensive in a hurry.
That's gonna be one loud SOB!...but you have my attention. Further it suprises me that nobody has done an x-pipe configuration with cat bypass pipes while they were at it.
I like Jim's old exhaust best. My neighbors hate me enough during track season as it is. I think this would give them even more reason to dislike me.
Andy,
Xpipes would be my first choice but the only vendor that offers them for the 996 NA is uber $$$$ Kriessig (SP). I had xpipes made on my 993 and it sounded nice. Throaty with a high pitched wail.
If I had more motivation I was gonna work with a muffler shop over the winter to fab me up a set of Xpipes. Would be at the cat pipes just like Kriessig.
One reason we went straight out the back was to reduce heat in the engine bay. It never made much sense to have hot exhaust pipes 6 inches under the airbox.
Paul,
Fabspeed has some X-pipes for the 2009 997 (997.5 or 997.2 as many call it). The '09 cars have 3 mufflers and the CATS have been relocated to either side of the engine, rather than behind it. See pic below.
Here is a link to the Fabspeed X-pipes installed on a 2009 997.
Fabspeed X-pipes for 2009 997
Now that Jim mention the heat under the intake... wonder why they even designed it this way. From the fabspeed pics above, they def could design the piping without crossing underneath the back.
I don't think so, because there is not enough room. Are you talking about the pic from the Fabspeed link in my previous post?
OK, here is the pic I am talking about. There is nowhere else to do the X-pipe, because there is no room.
so thats the new wet sump.... nice! Def looks like a different animal!
I was just talking about a totally NEW design, new mufflers (diff in/out location), headers, cats and piping... w/o the need to go across the botton. This will be w/o the x-pipe though... but just a way to keep the heat from being under the intake box. Maybe the heat is not really an issue at all?
Here is a pic of the '09 stock exhaust:
CATS on either side of the engine
The center muffler, I think (but not positive), allows the exhaust to cross over X-pipe style to equalize the exhaust pressure.
looks like the cat and headers are one piece... so when you have a bad cat, you get headers too (sounds expensive). Thank go for federal mandate warranty.
