RMS scaring the heckout of potential buyer

I own an 86 Carrera, that has been pretty much bulletproof. I put high mileage on the car as I use it to call on sales clients. I want to get a 996 (keeping the Carrera)...but this RMS thing that Ive read about here (utilizing the Search function) scares the hell out of me. Im considering an 02 C2 Cab, with only 4K miles on it. The car and interior are just beautiful, well optioned with PSM for about $60K. 1) Is this RMS thing a question of "its going to happen" opposed to "it may happen"? 2) Considering the severity of the RMS posts here in the forum, along with the many people here who have had multiple incidents of it, replaced engines etc...... why/how could the 911 win all of these yearly JD Power "quality awards" and be considered a top notch quality sports car?? (hypothetical question really)... 3) What else should i consider buying (high perfomance sports car?) unbelievable...the RMS posts here.

I think this is an overly biased population to draw conclusions from,(may not get a true sampling of all owners). The vast majority of 996s' have never had and will never have a problem with the RMS. JMO

Sonic db, include a extended warranty in your purchase price (make sure it covers seals).

My 'guess' is that about 3 % of the 996's have had an RMS problem. In the event that the car is under warranty this is obviously covered. Buy and enjoy.

and what information exactly are you basing this on...because I bet the vast majority of 996 owners on this list have experienced the problem at least once, including myself and a long range test drive by Motor Trend magazine who is not on this list. Considering the numbers here and in the term test vehicles, I think the odds are in favor of most 996 owners experiencing a RMS failure.

I can understand how you feel. I too was planning on buying a 996 in the coming months, but after reading about the RMS issue, I have decided to look for a 993 instead. I nearly bought an '01 Z06 Corvette before the oil consumption problem was discovered and was glad that I waited and bought an '02. The '01 prices dropped dramatically after that issue despite the fact that GM offered a fix under warranty that eliminated the problem. I would find some comfort in having a warranty on the 996, but I plan on making this a weekend car only and would likely own it well past the warranty period. If it was a seal issue alone, I would chance it, but the possibility of it needing an engine replacement has scared me off. On a general note, I just found this site yesterday and spent nearly the entire day reading the forums What a great resource for the inexperienced potential Porsche buyer! Thanks for all of the info you all share so freely

for that price it should/better have Porsche extended warranty included! I just got mine. 2 additional years should be enough time for the seal to leak if it were bad. bottom line, better have extended warranty ! good luck

Agree with others, be sure to get an extended warranty before purchase. I read a VW forum where the Touareg is getting a really bad rap with multiple problems etc. But when I speak to people I know that own Touaregs, they dont seem unhappy at all with it. Go figure. I think forums tend to blow some problems out of proportion, kinda like a huge dog-pile. FWIW

My opinion is that the rms thing is probably blown out of proportion, but I have no data to back it up, and vice versa. Porsche has the data and they're not talking.

"proportion" is relative. How Many Lexis, RR or BMWs have RMS problems proportional to their production. Let's get real, it shouldn't happen and they shouldn't put replacement engines in that have had RMS problems. They keep moving the problem outside their horizon.

Just buy the Porsche and don't worry about what MIGHT happen. RMS is way overblown.

RMS is indeed overblown., but people DO consider it when they are buying an M96 engined car. admittedly there is a certain peace of mind when buying a 996 with a GT1 based engine.

I find it funny that more people fear the RMS issue than they do burning a quart of ilf every 1000 miles. n No car should burn than much oil unless they have problems with the engine. Yet, I find many people on this board give the advice that it is common and is nothing to worry about, WRONG! I guess it's easier to just keep adding oil and put the problem out of your mind.

Just get the car you want, i have an 04 that has had it, and truth be told the cost to repair the rms leak is between 500 and 800 , its not a hugh issue... enjoy the car and if it happens fix it..good luck

I will echo the sentiment that even if you have an RMS issue it isn't tragic. My 99 had two separate repairs and quite honestly it was no big deal. I also agree Porsche should get their act together and we shouldn't have to discuss the matter, but it would NEVER scare me away from the car. It didn't when I bought my 997. Where are you getting the car? If it's from a dealer have them extend the warranty through Porsche. If not, you might be able to find a dealer who would pass the car through the dealership and add the warranty. If you want to know how PM me, I did this. Bob

not according to porsche. they claim our 1qt/1k mile burn since new is "normal". btw, please send me a PM so i can give your contact info to the guy who bought my SC'd 996 since you've experimented with add'l boost if you don't mind.

yeah as long as they're under warranty it isn't that big a deal, but $1k+/pop out of warranty starts to become a PIA. btw, i've seen numbers orr RMS failure estimates run from 30% to 40% based on dealer service depts asked as well as polls on the internet on multiple sites.

Torags, Double Zeros here: Dude you are totally correct. A few years ago you could have easliy counted me in with these knuckleheads that say "don't worry about it", "it is way overblown"... hey no biggy don't try to argue with these guys. thier day is coming and the post usally reads like this here on the list- "I found a few drops of oil in my driveway this morning, what excatly does that mean?" Chris my man why exactly do most people end up in in this technical forum in very first place? Most start here because they have a problem, serious question, or unusual observation with their Porsche. You don't really think most people show up here becuase they wanna brag about about 50,000 problem free miles and no questions...just wanna talk. Don't make me puke! I'd bet that those types make up probably 1% of this forum at best. Forums like this exist becuase the mutual problems of BTDT owners can offer advice to new or "it finally happened to me" owners.

Its still just a car , and they still break..come on ppl

I'm on my second new 996, the 2001 had over 50,000 miles on it when I sold it with no problems, my 2004 had 18,000 miles, no issues at all. Get the car inspected and enjoy. JMTC, Rob

Thanks for the posts and opinions. I still dont know what to think. Look around at the 996s for sale on Auto Trader, Ebay, Cars.com etc.... None...over 100k miles.... none over 75K miles...very few over 50K miles. Now thats not what I am looking for (high mileage)...but is it an indication that many of these cars are babied...or very few have made it. Youd think that at least a few 99s would have passed 100K. Like I said, I plan on driving this car 30K miles per year...so Im going to look for something else. My 86 can handle it, but I want to restore it now.

This is my first Porsche, however I understand that Porsche's have been famous for years as oil leakers. The 996 just continues this fine tradition. The RMS will not cause your engine to blow or any other major malfuntion. I doubt if it will ever get on the clutch as some think. I looked at mine when it was apart and it could of leaked forever at it's present rate and never got on the clutch. The leak is behind the flywheel on the other side of the pressure plate and clutch disk. Mine has been fine since it was fixed four years ago. If it did start leaking again I would put a pan under it in the garage and wait until I needed a new clutch to fix it. The cost of repairing the RMS when replacing the clutch is small probably a couple hundred bucks. Relax enjoy the car. YMMV

I don't see how it would.. I had the problem and had the dealer fix it under warranty. Even if I didn't, I don't think its so bad.. It was really only a slow slow drip, unless i'm missing something..But nonetheless, i'll keep my fingers crossed that it wont happen again..

Sonic, The fact is that we are a little short on facts. Some cars get them � some don�t. Some people till try to tell you it is inevitable, others that it is a small minority. If it were inevitable then knowledge of this problem would not be limited to the Porsche aficionados and Porsche would have to deal with it � there are plenty of people out there just gagging to find some way to have a dig at people who drive a 911. For my $0.02 I would say this. If you are going to buy the car and then spend every moment worrying about this and looking for spots of oil in the driveway then don�t bother � it will seriously detract from your enjoyment of the car. In that case go for the 993. Regards, Barry

I've got a '91 964 that leaves one or two drops after being driven. The serial number is in the range of the cars which had leaking heads, etc. The car has 132K miles. I'm not about to plop down $5K for a top end rebuild just because of a minor oil leak. If and when my 996 springs an RMS leak, depending on the severity I'll most likely just keep on driving. The 964 does not leak enough to add oil between changes, I presume any 996 with a leaky RMS is not GUSHING oil either. Most folks say it leaves a drop or two. In my mind p-cars = oil leaks, no biggie.... Cheers Eli

This wouldn't be such a blown up issue had Porsche acknowledged the defect and put out actual numbers. Every Porsche model has had their issues. The 993 is not free of its "ticking time bomb".

No doubt. Seems that every version of the 911 has its own "thing". The Carreras are supposed to suffer from premature valve guide wear...however my 86 appears to have passed through that stage at 114K miles, with no significant burning of oil. In fact, after replacing a few oil lines...the 86 doesnt leak a single drop. The 993s have their CEL/valve issues.... etc. I love the 996 that Im looking at...and dont want to spring the extra $ for a 997 cab at this point. I am also thinking about a 987.

not according to porsche. they claim our 1qt/1k mile burn since new is "normal". If anyone could get Porsche to officially state that burning 1 quart of oil every 1,000 miles is "NORMAL" I will admit that I am wrong. It is amazing what some dealers will says to aoid confronting a problem and even more amazing that some people will believe whatever there are told by the dealer. Burning that much oil is not normal nor is it common in the water cooled 996 engines. I suspect that if you request a letter from Porsche that it is normal, you will never get a response. Burning oil will not necessarily reduce the perfromance of the car, but it is definately not normal. If you are pushing that much oil, than you most likely also have a compression problem. Even my old Chevy that had 185,000 miles on it didn't burn that kind of oil.

True That- my brutha! My 993 was sick with issues one right after the next. My 996 was alot better but I have admit I was really disappointed with RMS failure. I thought my 996 was simply bullet-proof up to that point. My 928's all good to go, altough they were maintenance hogs but it was anticipated and expected for used cars with 10 plus years and mileage and DE's on the engines and frames. By the way my 996C4 burns NO oil. At least not enough for me to wory about it between oil changes.

Honestly after buying a like new 2001 911, with 30,000km on the clock, clean history, dealer maintained, purchased from Porsche dealer, and now waiting to see if they will change my engine, my faith in this car is shattered! So even if the history is clean, you never know. My dream car is now a nightmare, I have enough things to worry about in my daily life and did not buy a Porsche to add to my worries, I bought to enjoy and de-stress. I would not buy another 996. A GT3 or a Turbo yes, but another 996, no way. I imagine myself selling this one, taking a financial hit and uptrading to a 2002 or 2003 model, then getting an rms leak. How would I feel? Sure it's under warranty, but so what, who is covering my aggravation, dissapointment and inherent stress worrying about an engine leak on a car that cost USD 80,000 when new. Sure they are great cars, like no other, but this is just not on! I would guesstimate 15% of 996's have experienced the rms leak, not 3%. Apologies for the pessimism, but I am unhappy, dissapointed, and frustrated.

If your lucky the RMS will leak and you can repair it or get Porsche to repair it. If your unlucky the engine number two cylinder will crack out of warrenty and Porsche will stiff you. After you buy a new engine fron Porsche and put 2000 mile s on it the RMS will leak. Then Porsche will repair that for you free. Oh, don't count the loss of your valuable time. Be wary of high mileage 993's. The last batch of great cars for Porsche were the 80's Carreras.

you didn't have it as bad as me... $47,000 in repair costs and a couple engine fires in 1,100 miles of driving.. i think the fire department knows me my name now.. beat that one i think my avatar describes my porsche experience.. i love the car, but have absolutely no faith in the reliability of this car... i wouldn't sleep at night without my extended warranty.. speaking of extended warranty, my check engine light is on again, so back to the shop today... I did get a couple hundred miles of good driving in though

My 99 cab had the RMS fail at 28k miles. I think it's a matter of when, not if ... unfortunately. And if the "when" is out of warranty, and the engine is found to be out of tolerance, that's the scary thing. Vic 95 C4 cab

My engine was found out of tolerance first shot out of the basket with a RMS failure...got a engine replacement at a little over 30K. However, you are also correct...it is indeed a matter of when, NOT if! . . .

1) Is this RMS thing a question of "its going to happen" opposed to "it may happen"? if you accept that rms failures are a mfg defect, it seems like 996s with rms replacments have repeat problems. if the car has a clear history, i'd worry less about it. i guess i've beat the odds...mine has >90k miles, and it has never leaked anything.

I'm big enough to admit when I'm wrong, it must be bad Karma. My car was just diagnosed with, you guessed it, it's rare, it's blown out of proportion......RMS leak. I've been complaining that the car seems to use a quart every 1500 or so mi, Porsche claims it's 'normal'. I had the car on the lift today at RPM for some tires when I saw for myself, the telltale 'wetspot' at the tranny/engine junction. My car has never leaked oil, but it has consistantly used it, now I know why. I'm due to take it in next week, this sucks what more can I say.

Sorry to here C4S. What will they hit you up for in NY for the repair?

Nothing, under warranty still.

C4S Surgeon, I still doubt very much that the RMS leak is consuming all that oil. If it did you would see puddles on the deck. At most you will see a couple of small spots per month. On my 6th RMS and still don;t use up oil in my 996, well apart from maybe a qrt every 5000 miles "if" I have been driving it hard. I would want to know exactly the diagnosis for all that oil being used up and tell them you won't buy the RMS being the cause........unless when they pull open the bellhousing and a bucket load of oil drops all over the engineer

Oh, and I forgot, my new gearbox goes in on Monday. I will get them to do the RMS again (since it's leaking) for the 7th time......just for kicks.....7s a lucky number.

Someone had mentioned Porsche was replacing the M96 engine at a rate of 170-200 engines monthly, worldwide. Dont quote me on that, but someone mentioned some time ago. That is alarming to me.

I agree with Scouser. You said that the Dealer stated that using 1 quart of oil every 1500 miles is NORMAL. I would make sure that that this is documented. That is a lot of oil to be simply passing by the rings. If it was 1500 miles over a 1 year period of time, I wouldn't be so concerned because of moisture, etc. You might just want to make a little stink about it and have it officially recorded as a concern of yours and to get whatever response the dealer has to the complaint in writing. Glad the RMS is at no cost to you.

99, that's a good suggestion, you read my mind. You're right, it might be COMMON, but it ain't NORMAL.

Me, I've owned a bunch of 911's and 356 over the last 15 years (10 or so) and they all have thier issues. My 99 has thus far been pretty good - my 92' cup uses oil at more rapid rate (1Qt every 3K miles, with a lot of track time, then) I'll let you know when i get back after being away for a month and half - if it leaks it will be odvious. Get it inspected and enjoy

chris, my car is probably responsible for about 10% of that number of engines replaced yearly