996 Tiptronic - what do manual owners think?

I've been thinking of returning to the Porsche fold. Okay, I've been thinking of get a Z4M to replace my current Z4, and it occured to me that I could get a 2002+ 996 cab for the same money, so I've been browsing the web to see what's out there. There's a very nice example nearby with the colors I want (seal gray/black/black) and options I want (PSM. heated seats, hardtop) but it's Tiptronic. I've never driven one - in fact, I haven't driven an auto in years (both Bimmers are manuals). On the one hand, I've heard good things about Tiptronic, the car will never see the track, and in my heart of hearts I know I'm no Michael Schumacher, able to wring every last drop of performance from the car with preternatural heeling and toeing. On the other - it's a sports car. I'm curious if any other manual-only owners have made the switch and are happy. I'd rather not waste the seller's time taking a test-drive - I've sold a Porsche or two in my time.

There's the odd time when you've been stuck in rush hour traffic, stop and go and your left thigh is going to sleep that I have momentarily wished for a tiptronic! But most of the time it's just the fun of winding the engine up in each gear that makes me enjoy the 6 speed. It's not even hard acceleration, even just easing it up that feels like you're more connected to the drive.

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A Tip owner here... my car is a commuter daily driver... I LOVE my tiptronic

Our 996 was my 3rd 911. The first two were manual and the 3rd was a Tip so that the wife could also drive it. I will never do that again... The Tip was great and the car was very fast but I missed the connection you feel when you are driving a manual car. If you have had manuals in the past and you have been happy with them, I'd stick with a manual...

There is no way Schumacher or any pro would ever drive an automatic!!! I mean, really, a car with steering wheel controls can't be worth it's weight in.... hey, wait a minute.

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What he said. Plus, revving the engine for the sound before starting off in 1st gear would be missed terribly.

I would never buy a Porsche with a Tip. If I wanted an automatic tranny, I'd buy a Mazda 6. Oh wait,.... I did get a Mazda 6 (wife's car)!

sorry t say but the F1 cars are ALL tip tronics.....so schumacher won all his races with a 2 buttons on his wheel and NO clutch pedal! connection with you car??? you are sitting in it..isn't that enough connection?? I sometimes wonder if i read about the blown up engines in Porsches how many are actual stick and how many are tip?? because I can tell you as a European EX stick driver....most people do not know how to really drive stick. If you track...get a stick...if you use the car as a toy...get a stick....if you commute (or are a lazy a.. like me) get a tip.....you can always use the switches on your steering wheel to revv the engine. just my 2 cents.

yeah, the ideal car would logically have as few contols as possible. But to have fun is not logical.

Tip as a daily driver is a great car.!

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Nicolaas from what I recall, you got the Tip because your wife wanted to be able to drive the P-car and she can't drive a stick. Then after driving it a few times she decided she didn't like the P-car and you were stick with the Tip. https://rennlist.com/forums/showpost...14&postcount=9 If you had to do it all over again, would you get a Tip or a manual? Come on, be truthful!

I also have always had a stick in the 3rd car play toy, but started w/ a tip 968 5 years ago for obvious wifely reasons. I sure miss the manual tranny for sheer pleasure, but the tiptronic is much easier on the commute and recent left hip replacement.

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Make us feel bad why dontcha?

I got a manual for wife reasons... No she has no reason to drive it!

You know Tim that was a year ago...I had a change of heart and since I cruise more than really drive...so a tip is the prefect car for me....sure I would like for Porsche to make a better system.... I would buy a tip again. Honestly!!

We've got a Boxster that we have had over 5 years and it's a Tip. I drove it more than my wife and it replaced her Corvette so it was actually her car. She didn't like me racking up miles on it so she pleaded with me to get my own. I did over 4 years ago and it was a 996 Cab with the 6 speed. Still own it and I could go either Tip or manual, each is nice for a change after driving the other.

Love my Tip, but at times wish I had a stick. Only problem is the Tip tends to upshift way too early, to get better gas economy apparently. You gotta keep tapping the shifter down one gear most of the time when in traffic.

I wouldn't consider a tip. I hear they're great and all, but really how hard is it to use a clutch? I deal with a fair bit of traffic in my daily commute, but not once have I wished for a clutchless car. In fact when I do drive automatics (rentals etc) it bugs me. I'm always slipping into neutral so I don't have to constantly ride the brake, when I try to accelerate briskly but smoothly it'll kick into a lower gear, or it won't when I want it to.... BAH! I prefer to change gears when I want to change gears, not sooner, not later, but when I decide it's time. That's just me though. If you don't care, then buy a tip.

If my car was a commuter car I'd go for a tip. But since its a weekend car I'm sticking with a 6spd. I've driven my car to work a couple of times and I know for a fact that LA traffic is not manual friendly. It actually gets annoying. I do know now that I can idle the car at 6 miles an hour and nothing slower orI have to engage the clutch...

I thought (correct me if I am wrong), that the Tiptronic is a true automatic transmission. Personally I like the connected feeling of a manual though recently drove an Audi with the SMG style (do not recall right now what Audi calls it) transmission. These, as well as the ones in the BMW M series, are actually manual transmissions with the clutch controlled via computer (just like an F1 car which are NOT automatic transmissions in the normal sense of the term). Thus with the SMG you get the best of both worlds, not even a close comparison from my experience to a Tip...

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Eh, that's not exactly true. F1 cars have sequential clutchless (for the driver, at least) manual transmissions--like the DSG that Audi/VW uses. The 996 has an automatic transmission with a torque converter and buttons to shift gears. "Tiptronic" is essentially the same as Chrysler's Autostick. There's quite a difference in these types of transmissions. I'll take a clutchless manual with shift paddles. Unfortunately, that's not what the 996 has...

you are right, but still there is no clutch to press with your foot.....and I agree there is no "lag" from the moment you use the pedal shifter compared to the buttons on the Porsche. I would like the system to be a little more direct...but when I put my foot down the P launches and keep on going! I don't like the fact that it doesn't react faster when you want to corner....you actually need to go to "manual" to get the right gear before the corner. What I like in my BMW X5 is that you have 2 settings..sport and regular...Porsche should have 3 settings....regular, sport and "mountain roads with a lot of corners".... or yes just go for the real paddle shifters like in all real sportcars.....I forgot the 996 isn't a real Porsche

I've been doing some more research on this, including reading the Market Update in Excellence. According to Bruce Anderson, the Tips are less prone to RMS failure? Also, it seems there were some significant improvements in the Tiptronic system in 2002+ (the range of years I'm shopping).

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You can do that with a tip actually. left foot braking. And in the turbo it brings the turbos on boost before a launch. All of my Porsche's have been manuals as well as the lone Ferrari I had. My TT tip is a stunningly good car, and to be honest, I will never go back to manual. The only change I have made is changing the steering wheel to the RUF with paddle shift. The only downside is you have five gears instead of six.

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Take it out of auto and use the buttons and it will shift gears as quick as most average guys take to press the clutch and shift up or down. And how many people really do a perfect heel and toe or double declutch to say they are better off with a manual than a tip. I hit reality sometime back even though I still miss doing some of those things. What the tip does miss is the far quicker changes compared to the DSG etc and an additional gear (5 speed versus 6), but compared to a human of average driving skills, I would say driving takes a new depth with a tip as you can really improve drivng line and braking points. Maybe once my driving improves I may go back to a 6 speed for daily use...

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Far as I know, mine is on its 1st RMS, I havent changed it. I have 100,300 miles and bought it with 55,000 miles.

Tiptronic is just Porsche's take on automatic - BMW call it steptronic etc. Not to be confused with BMW M5 / Aston / Ferarri / F1 type paddle semi-automatics. Very different. Now when Porsche start using the VW / Audi DSG system that will be step forward. And there are about to. Until then I wouldn't buy a tip - have tried them in 993 and 996 guise but couldn't get on with them.

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Yes, true it is definitely not in the vein of a proper DSG (for which Porsche is coming out with its own version in the next couple of years), and it really depends on what you want. But using the manual mode is surprisingly good, and I am sure that it shifts gears faster than I do even though it definitely is not as fast as the DSG. And once you have replaced the steering wheel with the RUF paddle system, it really makes a world of difference in terms of feeing in control. Either way I must admit that as soon as the Porsche version of the DSG comes out, it will render tiptronic absolutely pointless.... and I for one will definitely be getting it. In the meantime, I still stand by the opinion that Tip works incredibly well in a daily driver and as a track machine for those with average driving skills, and the RUF wheel is the one thing that any Tip owner should consider saving for.

From a guy who owns a manual 964 I really look down on myself when driving my tip 996. I mean, there I am driving around in daily traffic talking on the phone, AC blowing my hair, sipping my double latte(no fat) waving at my friends and just generally having a good time.....I hate that guy

A tip won't let you shift from 3rd to 2nd instead of 3rd to 4th like you meant to do.

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Are you waiting until you need a new clutch.... oh, wait..... you have a Tip.... umm.....er...... never mind! Good Morning, Cory!

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OH, STEVEN!!!! I guess I never knew your 996 was a Tip! Phil may never drive his car, but at least it has a manual transmission! Now the really important quesion is this: Which guy is the REAL Steven? A) The 964 guy or B) the guy that drives around in his 996 Tip with his Izod sweater draped over his sholders, with the collar on his Polo golf shirt sticking straight up in the back, sipping the no fat latte, while lightly feathering the gas pedal with his Cole Han deck shoes (no socks of course) while admiring the crease in his black & red Izod golf shorts (gotta coordinate with the car) while checking out his reflection in the rear view mirror through his look-at-me tear drop, bronze colored designer sunglasses? Did I forget anything?

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Morgan to you

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With all the publicity of the 997TT being faster than the manual, and the fact that this is done by severely torque loading the transmission prior to launch, one has to ask: Would you buy a used 997TT tip out of warranty?

For all you Tip drivers, how much is the throttle response affected? One frustration with other autos is the torque converter acts like a big rubber band so you tweak the throttle but the effect is smoothed out

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Pretty close On 964 and racing weekends I don't shave and wear black The remainder of the time you nailed it bro

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More or less right on. Just think of it as the wierdest automatic you have ever driven...with a limited memory. Kind of like a 3 year old on drugs

My C4 is a tip. I have driven it 107,000 miles. Love the car. My 928 GT is a 5 speed, I have driven it 101,000 miles, love the car..........No regrets on either car. The tip is a very sophisticated transmission........does things no auto box has ever dome for me before. Awsome capabilities. Different strokes for different folks.

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Nature of the beast, cant defy physics. If the converter is "locked up", it is similar to a manual when you tap the throttle.

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Tips wont let you change from (say) 4 to 2, or 6 to 4 in one change, which is what you may want to do but from 3rd to 2nd is no problem as long as within rev limit and 3rd to 4th is also no problem- wont let you upshift from 3 to 4 if it feels it is too early.

Although I've never had a tip....and I've read all the pro's and con's as well as the forums bouncing the advantages and disadvantages back and forth....a lot of the focus is on the connection with the car and how less sporty a tip is.....however for us senior citizens, another major plus is the fact that hips and knees go out and a tip gives us a way to stay in the mix and continue driving these great cars. I looked for a tip when I bought the TT, but honestly couldn't find one anywhere close to the configuration I wanted, so I ended up back in a 6 speed. I talked to several folks who were looking to buy a tip and they too found it difficult to find one in spite of what others were saying about the readily available market of tips waiting to be bought. I will say that the hydraulic assist on the clutch makes it a bit easier on the bad knee....but eventually, I may be persuaded to look for that tip. I drove Mfletch's tip, and found it slightly less satisfying to drive than the 6 speed, but nothing I couldn't get used to....besides, the fact remains that you're still wrapped in a Porsche.

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Wouldnt the torque loading be similar to dumping the clutch in a manual at high revs to get the car in the right power band for a quick launch, and with regards to keeping the engine on boost in the 997TT tip in between changes (which is where I thought the real advantage of the new 997TT tip was), wouldnt the load be similar to the torque load placed on a manual when a double declutch (for example) is performed on a manual car? Not sure about this though- I admit I really dont know in detail how fragile the torque converter etc is on one of these auto boxes. Or does how an auto box function/work not take as well to these sort of things?

I have a Tip in my Audi S4. It' great and frustrating at the same time...great in that it's as easy as you want it to be, frustrating in that I can't really "launch" now can I? But stuck in traffic on the 101...well, you get the picture. I think it's more of a where you drive / how you drive / how you use the car questions then a "one is better than the other" type thing.... I must say that if you want to try a great transmission, go drive an Audi A3 with the DSG -- when that thing gets in the 997 next year, we will all want one. Trust me -- drive it. You WONT BELIEVE how fast the thing shifts! cheers, MDF

I think a TIP is the way to go....(sorry TIM)....reasoning: you can drink your Latte, text message, change you XM radio station, open or close you CAB AND have a conversation with your passenger ALL AT THE SAME TIME!! Now try this with a Stick! You will still be driving in first gear...and probably blow up your engine and come running to Rennlist to bitch about it!!

DSG is an aberation. Who needs two clutches? Its a lash up reaction to a problem that has not been adequately thought out. Seamless shifting has been under development for several years. It is now adopted by F1, yet another transfer of advanced technology from road cars to the technology pinnacle of motorsport. Seamless boxes do not need two clutches with all their space and weight problems, to say nothing of mechanical losses. Seamless shifting can be optionally controlled by electronics/hydro-pneumatics. As well as providing race car style gear changing, this allows automatic mode. Existing problems with loss of smoothness whilst shifting is just a matter of development. R+C

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You are right, of course, about dumping the clutch at higher rpm to keep a turbo on boost to make more power at launch. The issue in my mind is what abuse you are doing to the car. Without a doubt, agressively driving a manual will put more wear on a clutch, but clutches can be replaced relatively inexpensively. They are a wear item. Trash your auto, and you are at a whole other level of expense. I can't imagine the cost of replacing a Turbo's slushbox. Perhaps they are made to take it. I don't know. Not sure about your comment on double clutching. That certainly puts some wear on the clutch, but not much. Nothing like a torque converter being loaded up for a fast launch. I suspect that all the advantage of the auto over the manual in the 997tt is at launch. Using Porsche's figures, the tip's advantage is less at 1/4 mile than it is at 0-60. Auto transmissions were popular with stock style drag racers some years ago and I believe all the advantage was at launch.

Nordscheife, Correct me if I am wrong but my bet is that you haven't driven the latest spec M5 or Ferarri paddle shift and / or the DSG set up. I have driven all three. The M5 and Ferarri boxes are VERY fast and great for changing up and down at speed - but not for day to day driving or around town stuff. The DSG system in my wife's R32 leaves them both for dead in everyday road use - something every road tester seems to say as well. And don't even mention the Vanquish! Cheers Mark

PS Tiptronic great in the TT because of the torque and power. I just think manual better for us mere mortals with less to play with.

Lets just hope he doesn't get another Z4. P.S. Tips are for Nancy-Boys, they don't even let you in the PCA anymore if you have one. Just thought you should know that everyone laughs behind your back when you pull up in an automatic Porsche. Its just funny. Now a 997 TT Tip, thats not as funny.

Own a manual,drove a tip ,would buy a tip next !

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LOL. I've pretty much decided against the tiptronic; my chief reason for asking was because the car is close by, and that's not a great reason to not get a manual. I've got to say that I'd more seriously consider one, based on comments from current owners, than I would have before I asked. Currently, I'm thinking the Z4 might be off the table. I love the car (it's terribly under-rated, imo) and imo it looks better than most anything on the road, but I'm thinking I might like a new experience, as well as another Porsche. However, the RMS issue still gives me pause when considering a 996. Today, I've been pricing the Cayman S. Used ones are under $50k even with low miles, about the price of the nicer 996s I was considering, though that's the lower hp 2005 models.

One of my best friends drives one (Z4) and says it is the best car he has ever owned. From him that does hold water since he has owned some impressive cars in the last 10 years. Good luck with your decision.

The M4 is the one I liked and beautiful, BUT even Bimmer World magazine trashed the ride as too rough With that review and a friend of mine turning his back in for the same reason I got off that train. Great on the track but not going to do that on the street.

Late to the thread but love the Tip. Easy in traffic, great with a coffee, and it gives us a back-up car my wife can use. Oh, and I've gotten used to people thinking I'm a girl....

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Haha... that was quite funny. Hell, its true but funny...

Well we know what the "A" stands for anyway...

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LOL.....I get that too. Friends give me grief but they know better than to say I cant drive a manual.

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Since leaving the Porsche world, I've gained a greater appreciation for their suspension tuning - nobody seems to be able to combine performance and suppleness in a suspension the way they do. The closest I've seen in the BMW suspensions tuned by Dinan, and if I were to get another Z4 I'd definitely get the Dinan stage 2 suspension.

Street driving = tiptronic. Track driving = manual (unless DSG is available). Anybody who thinks they are more of a real "driver" because they're shifting gears themselves, but their driving is restricted to public roads, is just fooling themselves. Even driving fast on a track is not about shifting gears, it's about proper line, carrying momentum, braking well and late, getting power on only once and strongly in any given corner (none of that "oops, too soon" stuff). I will say that the although the tiptronic is way more satisfying for street driving it is nowhere near the equal of Audi's DSG which is real manual trasmission shifted and clutched the same way a LeMans or F1 car is shifted and clutched. The "torque converter effect" is the tip's only weak aspect for track use (in that the connection between your foot and the driveline is not exactly direct because of the "fluid coupling"). I'm an inner city dweller so I will never have another street car with a clutch pedal. And I can honestly say I do not miss it. My track car still has a clutch though, as do both of my motorcycles (track and street). Hey, if you like the tradition of shifting yourself you should also go for a car that has fuel mixture and ignition timing controls on the steering wheel just like the race cars back in the day.

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I've got some bad news... (But it is a manual!)

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Eh, I won't knock you for that choice, Brown. I've always thought the coupes looked better than the roadsters, too. Don't get me wrong--it's no Porsche, but I can't tell you that I don't want to try it!