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YOUR RESEARCHWinter Storage (or Don't Put your Porsche Away for the Winter - part II)
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Check battery today and all cells low fluid level
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Checked the battery today and all cells low fluid level.
Winter Storage (or Don't Put your Porsche Away for the Winter - part II)
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I did flood the area with water, and there's no further leakage - I obviously disconnected the charger as well.
Winter Storage (or Don't Put your Porsche Away for the Winter - part II)
Install any
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Have you installed any after market appliances (a.k.a.
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Install before i took delivery
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
When I bought the car 2 years ago, a new Porsche battery was installed before I took delivery.
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Install before the car was shipped
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I was told when I bought my car in 2005, that a new battery was installed before the car was shipped to me.
Winter Storage (or Don't Put your Porsche Away for the Winter - part II)
Check carefully, and certainly if any in compartment, will
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Suggestion · Original poster
On first look, seems like all electrolyte went out via vent tube - but I'll check carefully, and certainly if any in compartment, will use baking soda and water to flush.
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Check date
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Suggestion · Original poster
Hopefully, my dealer can check the date on the battery and see if that's the case - if not, since it's an OEM battery, it may be covered under warrantee.
Winter Storage (or Don't Put your Porsche Away for the Winter - part II)
Check on the warranty - if it's covered
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Suggestion
Check on the warranty - if it's covered, then get them to replace it, but if not, then I'd go with an aftermarket battery from Pep-boys - great warranties, no maintenance and a lot more reliable.
Winter Storage (or Don't Put your Porsche Away for the Winter - part II)
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We were able to jump start the car - it was reluctant to turn over at first, but repeated attempts did the trick.
So, I put my car in a friend's garage for the winter, on an OEM battery maintainer. When I bought the car 2 years ago, a new Porsche battery was installed before I took delivery. The maintainer is reading green when put away in November. When I go to see the car today, and light is now red, and when I attempt to start the car, hear sound of starter only - engine doesn't turn over. I did have the presence of mind to pop the hood. I hook up the unit to the car again, leave it for 30 mins, come back and it's now green again. Car (reluctantly) turns over and starts up. I ran it to operating temp, and when put away, the maintainer is still reading green. I'll check again in 2 days. Is my car telling me something? Like
DRIVE ME, YOU MORON
?
Not sure what the deal is on the battery or maintainer, but I'll keep a close eye on it.
You are brave Phil to start a new thread on storing vs driving. As far as the battery charger/maintainer goes, it is saying "drive" your P car and forget about that new Audi.
Phil, your car is pretty smart! I couldn’t have said it better myself?
Did you leave the Cruse Control button engaged when you stored the car?
OK seriously, when was the last time you checked the water level in the battery? If the water in the cells gets too low, the battery won't hold a charge as well as if they are full.
Is there something draining the battery? Have you installed any after market appliances (a.k.a. coffee maker, espresso machine, popcorn machine, waffle iron, etc.) I-pod? You could test it with a volt/amp meter to see if there is a drain on the battery. If there is a drain, then you could remove one fuse at a time to see which circuit(s) are causing the drain.
It could be that your battery is weak from non-use (I mean that seriously THIS time) and not getting charged enough? My guess would be the latter issue as the cause of your battery drain problem.
I guess the worst case scenario would be that the battery doesn’t survive the winter and you have to drop a new one in the car in the spring. Don't worry about the radio code, because you won't need it. The code is stored in the car's memory and will initiate a startup when you put the new battery in the car.
Good luck and let us know what you find out.
I agree with Barn996 and overall the Audi has a much newer battery so you can save power as you probably don't need the maintainer for it if you just park the S4 and drive the Porsche; both have AWD, so no need to drive the "listener".
I dont bother with a battery maintainer because it's just another item that could fail. I prefer to disconnect the battery, leave the hood slightly open and place an object by the lock preventing it from closing.
I agree with Tim. Your battery was probably on its last leg when you took the car to your friend's house. My guess is that you only drove it a few miles and then stored it. If it were my car, I would disconnect the battery entirely, and buy a new one next year.
Stefan
I am indeed brave (stupid?) to post on this again! I'll check the water levels - since the battery's only 2 years old, it should maintain a charge. Ouch - damn, my *** hurts from all the flames.
Well friends here's a follow up. Checked the battery today and all cells low fluid level. Filled them - then heard dripping under the car. The 3 cells on the left side are empty, and the right 3 are full. Nothing I can do tonight - going to either drive to dealership (if I can start it Wednesday) for new battery, or take it out and get replacement (if I can't get it to start). I had a no good, very bad day. I flushed out the battery compartment with distilled H2O, but it will need to be thoroughly cleaned out to avoid corrosion. Damn it.
Yeah, thanks Tim. I PM'd Wayne on this - I may need his help on Wednesday. Gotta work full day tomorrow, so no time to get fixed. Battery clearly needs to come out and be replaced. Pisses me off since battery is less than 2 years old - assuming Isringhausen replaced it when I bought the car like they claimed they did. Not worth fighting witht them over it. I'll take it to my dealer (Holbert) for new OEM battery - and full cleaning. If I can't get it started, I'll put the battery myself and hose out the compartment and underside of the car. Anything else you'd recommend??
It's 2007 (actually, almost 2008) and your car is a 2004 but you say the battery is only 2 years (or less) old? Are you sure they put a new battery in when you bought it?
Also, why do you need to buy a battery from the dealer when you can buy one from an auto parts store for [most likely] much cheaper?
I was told when I bought my car in 2005, that a new battery was installed before the car was shipped to me. Hopefully, my dealer can check the date on the battery and see if that's the case - if not, since it's an OEM battery, it may be covered under warrantee.
While we're on the subject, I have an embarrassingly stoopid question.. (and it has nothing to do with little green icons on the dash..)..
My '03 C4 game with one of them there battry maintainer thingamujigs.. at least, that's what I assume it is - an AC 110 plug under the front hood, near the battery access points.. Am I just supposed to plug this thing into the wall if I'm gonna leave my car sit for while? Can I do any harm just leaving it plugged in?
I don't intend to completely garage my car during the winter, but I probably won't be driving it much either.. I don't need it to get to work, so I'll probably just take it out for a spin on days when the roads are dry - which, depending upon the winter in Boulder, can sometimes be every day and can sometimes be once every couple of weeks or a month or so.
So should I just plug this thing think in the garage?
- Nick
Nick, not familiar with the input under the hood - the battery maintainer I use plugs into a 110V wall outlet, with the connector hooking directly into the cigarette lighter. I used mine last year without any problem for a couple of months at a time. Kept the battery fully charged.
Ouch! I'm dragged away from the forum by work for an evening and Phil's car stages a mutany. Not cool.
Don't worry Phil, we'll get you running again.
I'd actually recommend moving to a 3rd party battery over the OEM battery - cheaper and more reliable. I installed a Bosche Premium Gold battery lasy year - comes with a good warranty, maintenance free and better cold cranking amps. I got mine from Pep Boys in Warminster and I gthink it cost around $80.
The main thing is getting that old battery out of there and getting the leaking acid out... sounds like you took good first steps, my main worry if that the acid will contact something like cables and cause some damage - the sooner you get that thing out the better - any chance that you can switch it out after work tomorrow?
- At least get the battery out and place it at the side of the car until you're ready to try to move it again.
Unfortunately, full day of practice, then staff meeting until around 9PM tomorrow. Wednesday AM is the earliest I can get to this. The only reason I'm leaning toward another OEM battery is that this one may in fact be under warrantee. If so, I wouldn't mind saving the $$. But, I've sent you another PM - maybe we can link up on Wednesday if you have any time. Sounds like you're busy as hell, too. I did flood the area with water, and there's no further leakage - I obviously disconnected the charger as well.
Got it - yeah, end of year rush to finish stuff up - everyone goes crazy. The joy of ending my work year on Thursday is that I need to get loose ends tied up sooner. My calendar is crazy this week.
Check on the warranty - if it's covered, then get them to replace it, but if not, then I'd go with an aftermarket battery from Pep-boys - great warranties, no maintenance and a lot more reliable.
I can't answer the question about flushing out the battery compartment though. I'd have no clue on how best to do that.
We'll talk tomorrow.
Hmm, that's kind of strange for a battery to leak like that. Are you sure the dripping is not from poor aim? Those suckers are hard to fill. When you remove the old battery, try filling it again to see if it's really leaking. The sulfuric acid will eat thru paint if it is indeed leaking.
Nope, I was incredibly careful filling up each cell. When each was topped off - I rechecked levels and the 3 cells on the left were well below where I filled them. I plan to wash the area thoroughly tomorrow to try to remove all traces of acid.
OK gang - everyone's telling me NOT to buy a Porsche battery, so what battery would you advise to provide sufficient cranking amps, long life, plus vent tube? I don't want to go through this again!!! Car is really going to need to be cleaned up - and quick.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showpost...4&postcount=12
Check judd944's thread in this forum also. He has a similar problem.
AutoZone Duralast Group 48-DL. DL has the vent-tube.
If you have electrolyte spilled in the area of the battery, you need to mix up a batch of baking soda and water and use it to liberally douse everything in the area, and then rinse completely with clear water. Do that before you install the new battery to avoid any potential to contaminate a cell with the baking soda/water cleaning solution.
Dumb question, but why wouldn't you drive your car in the winter? Nice cold dense air, more bang for the buck. The only thing I can think of is the stuff they put on the roads to help melt the snow and ice. But most of us have more than one car, so just drive the other until the roads are clear.
On first look, seems like all electrolyte went out via vent tube - but I'll check carefully, and certainly if any in compartment, will use baking soda and water to flush.
Phil hardly drives it in summer, so surely you jest about driving it in winter!
BTW - Phil is notorious on this Forum for NOT for his driving his C4S.
He bought the car used with 1,000 miles on it about 2 years ago. During the past 2 years he has driven it about 1,800 miles (yes, eighteen
hundred
miles).
You're correct. That's the most compelling argument against winter driving: road salt. You'll also hear folks say that driving in slippery conditions worries them because of the increased possibility of getting hit by somebody else.
I'll save my grief until I see you tomorrow.
Hopefully the car will start okay and we can get you and your injured baby over to Holberts for a good wallet raping.
Not really that strange. If a battery is dead/discharged, the freezing point of the electrolyte will rise, and it can freeze and crack, like a radiator w/o anti-freeze.
Bill
And the baking soda is a good idea.
Make sure you use lots and lots and lots of water. Sulfuric acid is very strong and you must be sure to dilute any remaining.
Yes, but the battery was functioning normally when put away 2 weeks ago. At least that was what I thought. I did not check the electrolyte levels before I stored the car - which was likely the event that led up to the battery failure.
I was simply offering one reason why a previously "good" battery now leaks like a sieve.
A bad (vs. dead/flat) battery with high internal leakage may go dead quickly on its own, and can be masked in a daily driver that recharges it every day. And it doesn't take much of an errant drain the car to drain it in a few days.
Bill
Bill, agree - I'll know more tomorrow when I get the battery replaced. I'll post up on the outcome. Thanks to all for suggestions. And to Tim, of course, for his heartfelt sympathy!
Does this mean that you'll drive your car more often now?
Think of it this way, you car i so depressed about not being driven that it has started to commit suicide - death by battery acid - the most gruesome and painful death imaginable! Oh the horror!
I think I'll report you to Porsche for cruelty to your C4S.
...think about it - Phil had his S4 a day or so and it lost it's will to live. His C4S got lonely after he put it away for the winter and it lost it's will to live.
Does this mean that the Audi is smarter than the Porsche as it figured out that it would never get driven to it's potential way faster than the Porsche?
Pilng it on???? ME?????
There is no reason to be depressed. You have a beautiful new S4 as a daily driver. The car you don't plan to drive for 3 to 4 months has a dead battery, not a blown engine. Clean the battery compartment up a little and drop in a new battery. Your baby will be good to go next spring!
No, that means the Audi is dumber than owl ****! It talked to the Porsche and heard that sad tale of never being driven and wasn't smart enough to figure out that it (the Audi) was the
daily
driver.
Phil, your threapist is going to be pissed off that Holbert's is getting some of "his" money!
How does the battery area in the car look? Can you tell if there has been any damage?
Can't see that there was leakage into the compartment itself - but I did flush it out with water when I discovered the problem. Wayne's kind enough to help me out this AM - we'll get the car to Holbert for a battery and cleaning! I'll post on how it all goes. We're due for a snow/ice storm tomorrow and Saturday, so good thing this will be taken care of today.
PS: I have no plans to tell my therapist about Holbert getting his $$$. Besides, he's in Aruba.
PPS: Another lesson learned: I'm going to
drive and enjoy
this damn car if it kills me! This little episode has shown me that these cars are meant to be driven, not to sit. Will I drive it in the snow? No, but when the weather improves, it's going to be driven!
If the battery did freeze and split because it was very discharged, the electrolyte will not have been as corrosive. Still, as you know, a good flush with baking soda solution is a must.
That (your commitment to drive it more) is the best news I have heard in a while.
Oh BTW, you can rest assured knowing that I will help remind you to drive it. But I am sure you already knew that!
Whenever you become less than assiduous in driving the car, I will simply ask you if the words "leaking battery" ring a bell! No really, you don't have to thank me! I'm MORE than happy to do it!
Now it's my turn with the dumb post.
I did not realize these OEM batteries were not maintenance free. Upon checking the manual it says the levels should be checked regularly.
The manual says the chambers should be topped up with distilled water to the level indicator. Upon looking at the battery I do not see an indicator. Can anyone help? Thanks,
Well, Time, I had a wonderful lunch with Phil and he is truly repentant. He has promised to not only drive his car beyond the end of the driveway, but he might even make it to the end of his street!
I was glad to see that Holberts got the car flushed out and a new battery installed.... and thankfully no damage done.
Nothing worse than uncontrolled leakage. The C4S needs some Depend diapers.
BTW, the S4 looks awesome - the photos don't do it justice.
I can't thank Wayne enough for his help and moral support today! For those of you who know him, you know what I mean when I say he's an absolutely terrific guy who loves his family, work, and cars - in that order. Well, maybe cars before work
We were able to jump start the car - it was reluctant to turn over at first, but repeated attempts did the trick. The OEM battery had an apparently sulphurated cell, which sort of causes internal destruction - good news was the battery compartment was not flooded with electrolyte. Bad news was it wasn't covered under warrantee, because Porsche knows there are nuts like me out there who
don't drive their cars!!
Holbert's has lots of crazy customers like me, and knew to flush all areas with baking soda and water. So, I'm a changed man! Life is short, and I'm going to be out there driving it!! After the winter, of course -- this will be step one of my twelve step recovery.
Again, all my thanks to Wayne for his time, help, and patience today. I truly appreciate it!
You're welcome. Any time. It was good to spend some time with you.
So, I'm curious, what was the reason for it not being covered under warranty? Bill mentioned the mileage, was he saying that low mileage voids the warranty?
Another thought - is this sulphurated cell (never heard of it, I'll have to look it up) unique to the OEM batteries and would an aftermarket battery do better on low mileage cars?
Sulphation happens when a battery is left discharged, or slowly over time during the normal life of the battery. A lead sulphate builds up in the plates, which causes two problems. The chemical elements in that compound are no longer involved in the reaction(s) that generate the electrical energy, and the build-up of this compound on the plates causes them to buckle and distort, possible shorting them out causing a completely dead cell.
If you've seen an older long dead battery, in a car, or inside a computer UPS, with a swollen case. This is the cause of that.
Bill
Oh! I see. I thought they were referring to something in the design of the battery. I misunderstood. Thanks for the clarification.
What surprises me is that the case cracked and leaked, rather than it just failing to hold a charge. The amazing thing is that Phil's battery was in immaculate shape - like the rest of his car - ask me about the cleanliness of his wheel wells
I'm amazed that it failed so quickly.
The external condition and cleanliness has nothing to do with what's going on inside where it count.
At this point I've offer two explanations for a cracked case.
Freezing (which I have seen in person in a very dead battery), and sulfation
causing swelling. So it is possible. Without seeing the battery (and the car)
in person it's hard to guess what really happened.
It you take a brand new car and put it in a wonderful climate controlled warehouse, wait N months, and the battery will be dead, have low specific gravity and higher freezing point, and be sulfated.
In my experience, the 996 has a bit higher than usual Key-off drain, which helps the batteries go dead quicker.
(I admit, I haven't read this entire thread carefully, so I don't know what was the case with your battery minder/trickle charger)
Bill
Here's the quote from Porsche N.A. on "Determining Warrantable Battery Situations":
For Porsche vehicles stored for prolonged periods of time, storage conditions defined as follows:
1. Stored in excess of 4 weeks without being driven;
2. Battery maintainer not utilized during this time;
3.
Vehicle in question only driven occasionally for short distances over a prolonged period of time wihtout an occasional drive at highway speeds (ie. less than 15 miles/24km per day with no highway driving.
If the above 3 points apply to the vehicle in question, then the charging system of the vehicle cannot properly maintain the charge of the battery and sulfation could set in.
Porsche guidelines on what constitutes reasonable mileage are at least 15 miles/24 km per day or 6,000 miles/9,600 km per rolling 12 months.
Note: Batteries damaged due to storage ie. (sulfated batttery) are not covered under warrantee.
Note that this last point doesn't take into account the age of the battery at failure, although I was told the new battery has a full 24 month warrantee - and is prorated after that. That statement seems in conflict with the above.
So, I think they have me here - although when I reviewed the situation with Isringhausen today (where the car was purchased), they say they would have honored the warrantee. But, that's easy for them to say knowing the car's in Pennsylvania!
I also didn't get my PCA discount, so maybe I can get a few bucks back. Anyway, the car runs great and (obviously) starts right up - with even more rapid cranking than when the car was new to me. Dealer says that when in for routine maintenance, they routinely check the electrolyte level. In answer to a previous post, the level should be at the base of where the cell cap is (around 1" below the top of the battery).
Phil - I'm glad you got this all worked out. Wayne, good job with the help and being an eye witness to Phil's repentant state!
Here are a couple of observations from reading the last 6 to 7 posts:
Phil, after reading point #1 & #2, it sounds like you voided the battery warranty four weeks after you bought the car due to lack of driving! And if #1 & #2 didn't get you , point #3 certainly did. BTW - How many trips up and down your driveway does it take to rack up
15 miles per day
?
Oh man, I can already hear the 993 guys once they read that not only do 996's have engines that grenade, they also have batteries that grenade as well. They will be saying that not only are 996's not real Porsches, but that 996's don't have real batteries either!
Seriously Phil, I'm glad all is well with Sleeping Beauty, er .... I mean... the C4S!
Now Tim, you know I always use my battery maintainer when the car sits for "a while." In fact, when I take long weekends, I hook it up to myself.
It was interesting that when we jumped the car, it was very slow in turning over - Wayne suggested it may be flooded and that the accelerator should be depressed for 15" or so. Whether that was the problem or not, it turned over progressively faster on successive tries, and ultimately did start up. I thought that even with a bad battery, jumping with a fresh battery should essentially bypass the problem. And I really don't give a s--t what the 993 guys say - 996s are indeed real Porsches. I'm going to drive it - I'm a new man.
Jumping with a fresh battery isn't as good as having -the- battery in good condition because normally jumper cables are cheaply made with too light a gauge of wire, and cheesy spring clamps.
Since my wife "helped" pay for the 911, a new woman may cause her to do to my C4S what Michael Douglas' wife did to his Austin Healy in "War of the Roses." Those who've seen it know what I mean. Ouch.
That is true. Many of us have our toys because our wives indulge us.
A buddy of mine has the PA plate THXWIFE because his wife basically bought the car for him (and earns more than him).
Does your buddy's wife have a sister? Oh wait, I'm already married!
Well, to be fair I should say that right now, my wife makes more than I do. She is a school teacher, so that tells you how much I am currently making!
They're a very nice couple - both clinical biologists. Unfortunately, my buddy is a lead scientist caught in the middle of trying to clean up the Avandia mess. I would not want his job.
Thanks for posting the info, Phil.
Interesting thread here, guys, sorry Phil had to find out the hard way. After reading this, I'm going to go home and (a) plug my car in when it's sitting in the garage during the cold winter months and (b) take it out for a spin every once in a while when there's not 3 feet of snow on my street*
I'll still be in the low mileage club, but that's life..
Unfortunately, my car's in Colorado and I'm in NY at the moment, so not much I can do now
- Nick
*Boulder uses "passive solar snow removal" on most of the residential streets... i.e. wait for the sun to melt it..
BoulderNick - I've had my car sit in warmer weather for a couple of weeks and start without a problem. Keeping the maintainer on during cold AND warm weather when the car is idle will be my plan. I'm going to be much more vigilant - and yes, drive it considerably more. For those with the ridiculously expensive OEM batteries (like I have), check the fluid levels in each cell to prevent sulfation. I'm now convinced that letting these cars sit too long can cause damage.
If sulfated batteries are your trade-off, vs. not wanting to drive in bad weather, seems like the batteries are cheap enough.
Other things like rusted brake system components are more of an issue IMHO.
Bill
