Advice on possible purchase? (now with PPI info post 20)

Hello everyone, I've been out of the Porsche game for a while (had a 944 a few years back), and am now ready to get back in. I've never owned a 911 before but have been reading like crazy learning as much as I can about a possible purchase. So I'm curious as to what you think about the car I'm looking at and hoping for a little advice. 1999 911 C2 coupe Approx. 85k miles 6 speed Looks extremely clean and drove great Options: Litronik (sp?) headlights, 18 inch turbo look wheels (with new tires), leather package, three spoke steering wheel, premium sound. Records: Sporatic. Definitely had the 60k, but no records of clutch, RMS, or IMS ever being taken care of. PPI: A reputable shop has looked at the car and didn't find any leaks or problems. Asking price is $20,000. I'm fairly certain that I can negotiate based on the records, but not sure to what extent. Any thoughts? Thank you so much for your time! Chris

Get a PPI! Let us know what you find! -Eric

Sorry, just edited my post about the PPI. The car has been looked over and no problems were found.

Little hard to tell without records and more info, or pics (although I'd bet info > pics). You unfortunately haven't given much data on the car, except for its year, mileage and that the PPI "passed," basically. My sense is that's not enough to get a proper response that you're looking for; if you just want the average price of a 1999 C2, Excellence magazine posts them here: http://www.excellence-mag.com/resour...ide/1041874889 A high-end 1999 C2 is priced at $19K, so with that mileage, it'd better be spotless, and the right color, and drive great. There are plenty of these cars out there, so take your time, get what you want, make sure the PPI was done well, find out whether the car has had any of its important/vital parts replaced recently, find out when pumps/etc were replaced, find out whether IMS/RMS were an issue....As you can see this goes on and on. Then read the sticky posts and make sure you know what you're getting into, and if you can do your own work, all the better. The more information you post, the better the responses will be.

I wouldn't put too much weight on Excellence's numbers. I'm not saying they're wrong but they just don't really capture the true market. I'd say if you like the car and it passed PPI and your own tests to your satisfaction that $20k is the right range for that car. Might you find a better deal? Sure? Are there worse ones to be had? Most definitely. If you think you've found the car you're looking for and that's the best price you can get the guy to agree to then I'd go ahead and buy it and not look back. Don't drive youself crazy arguing with yourself about a few hundred bucks or even $1k if you've found what you're looking for and the deal won't get better. People will tell you that's a great deal, it's a rip off for over $15k and everything in between. Do the best you can by negotiating and then make a decision. The car seems pretty fairly priced even for a pretty basic car...assuming it is in excellent condition. Just my $.02, -Eric

Thanks Peter. Unfortunately, I don't have much more info on the car in regards to records. I haven't actually seen them yet and am going by what I've been told thus far. It seems as though the major issues to look for are the RMS and IMS. Are there other "big ones" that I should be looking for. In all my searching, it seems that RMS/IMS are definitely the most talked about, along with maybe the coolant tanks splitting and leaking. I also know that the clutch has not been changed, but it does feel good and was not suspect by the shop that looked at it. Sorry I don't have more info. I have seen the excellence price guide and don't believe this is a $20k type of car. But it is very clean. I feel that I'll have to have the 90K service done right away, and I'd seriously consider putting a new clutch in and having the IMSB done as well for piece of mind. Is $16-$17k and insult?

Thanks, Sue. I do find myself going crazy over this. I LOVE the color, which is what attracted me to it in the first place. The whole IMS thing is what really has me going crazy. But I see there is so much discussion about that, that it seems to drive everyone crazy!

have you seen this one: https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...immermann.html

Based on your description of the car, an offer of $16/$17K is very reasonable. IMHO, $20K is excessive. Shop around, there are lots of high mileage (anything over 75K is a high mileage car) 996s. A friend just bought a high mileage 996 Cab w/105K miles for $18K. Good luck in your search, and if you take your time and are patient, it will payoff

Hey if you only intend spending $16-$17 on a 911 Porsche, then expect it to have a few probs down the road. High milage comes with wear and tare everywhere on any vehicle. You may have to pump a few extra grand into bringing it up to specs. ie tires, brakes, fluids etc.. The main thing to look for IMHO are added mods. Ususally these mods are added by would be DIY er guys who mess around with the electrics and eff things up. That would be my main concern with buying a used 911. Especially a cheap 911. The more expensive 911s have not been bolluxed up by young DIY ers.. The owners had them serviced and worked on via a reputable garages. Hey I am not saying that all moders are crap, but thats the risk you take buying a used cheap 911. Cheap being anything under $50 grand. If you have a few grand aside, that can be used for preventative maintenance and you are prepred to work on the car yourself, then I would say "go for it no matter what".. OR double your money and half your problems with a younger model and less milage. It's make your mind up time lol Which ever way you decide, good luck in your hunt for the right one. .

As a Porsche owner for more then 25 years now the only thing i can say is if you can find a car with all the repairs and maintenance done by a Porsche dealer you will always buy a better car then the one maintain by the Porsche mechanic in the corner of the street.... I don't mean that all the independent mechanic are incompetent but if you want the job doing right the first time on your car and you don't do it by yourself ( i always preferred to do all the repairs by myself)....well the repair will always be done better at the dealership.........they are more expensive but usually it worth it Of corse this is only my 2 cents........... Good luck Robert 2000 C4

I think that depends on your dealer. My dealer has screwed a few things up on my car in the past. I found an independent mechanic who specializes in Porsches, and his service is far better than the dealer, and usually a little bit less expensive. I have extensive records on my car, and I know that as a buyer, I'd like to see records like mine for a higher-mileage car even though some of those records are from an independent mechanic.

The words PORSCHE and CHEAP should not be in the same sentence

Do you have a copy of the PPI, if so, how thorough was it? How did the 911 drive, does everything work on it? Did you crawl under the Porsche to see if there are any signs of oil leaking? I'd say 20k is certainly in the ballpark if the car is in decent condition. My 99 996 leaks no oil, has not had the IMSB replaced and runs great, with just under 60k miles to date, and if I were going to sell it I'd be asking around $20-21K as well. GL and let us know the outcome.

I've only been on this forum for a few months but this is probably the 4th or 5th "What do you think" thread that I've seen. If you read over other recent threads about the same thing you'll dee the same thing said over and over, Get a PPI. You can find a better one for less. and on and on. All of it is good advice but it really comes down to how you feel. You'll never be completely confident about a car unless you buy it new and you have it maintained. A good PPI will give you a starting point, thats it. As for the IMS- I think it's safe to say that it's on the mind of every 996/997 owner that hasn't done a retrofit. Until you do, you'll have to live with it. I assume you know when the time comes for a clutch you can retrofit an upgrade. You can also do install one of Jakes Guardian systems, or both. It's just rolling the dice until you can address it. That said, I think it's obvious that the odds are in your favor. The car you're looking at has survived 85K miles so far.

In my experience, many on this board undervalue the current price of the 996 series. Some folks just seem to think that the depreciation curve of two years ago has continued at the same pace. It has not. Prices have stabilized, and if anything they have gone up a bit. This reflects the general increase in used car values, and the significant decrease in used car availability during the recession. A '99 996 in good condition with relatively low miles that does well on a PPI - and that describes this car - is easily worth $20k. You might find a cheaper car, but it will have issues. Now, I'm not saying you don't try to bargain the owner down. Of course you do, just recognize that this is probably a fair price. Ultimately the car is worth whatever you, the owner (and maybe the bank) think it is worth. Good Luck!

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I tend to agree that prices have held steady the last couple years. I would probably offer $18k, be happy at $19k and get 'ur done!

Unclear whether prices will keep steady with the 991, assuming that the 997 prices will now drop, thereby dropping the 996, and as always, raising the 993...such is life (better for us). That's a theory; I have no data. Agree; if you like the car, ignore all of this junk and go buy it. Although sixteen bucks seems low for even a well-used 996....

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I am sure that the quality of service and the value received varies from Dealer to Dealer and State to State. In my personal experience (far less than 25 years I might add), the first 2 visits to my local dealer were frustrating and costly. I used to own Jags and the Porsche Dealer also has a Jag Dealership whose Service Department I visited way too often (so I should have known better). After finding a good independent through recommendations on this forum and 6speed, I found a Porsche Indy shop that is superb. I am glad that you are happy with your experiences at your local Dealer, however, I would advise anyone with a new P-car to ask around and get recommendations so they can make a more informed decision about the choices in their locale.

Wow! Thank you so much for all of the responses. I really appreciate it. I went and looked at the car again tonight and gave it a more thorough inspection myself (what that is worth though, I'm not sure). I still feel that the car is very clean. The car did have an actual PPI, which I took a look at. The tires were worn, but have been replaced. There was something about the passenger window not lining up properly, but I didn't notice anything when in the car. The only other thing that rose a red flag was a slight leak at the oil separator. I'm not sure what that repair would cost or what that entails. Any thoughts? Also, a note was made about a speed sensor code thrown, but that may have been in the past. That was really about it. The other records for the car are, as I had said, rather sporadic. There is record of the 60k service being done at a Porsche dealership, and there are some records of things being done at the dealership prior to that as well. Lots of little things under warranty. Not sure what to think at this point. I really like the car, but don't want to get to emotional about a purchase. Thanks for all of the continued help. I'll update what happens and hopefully be able to join the ranks of 911 ownership. Chris

Passenger window not lining up, slight leak at the oil separator, speed sensor are all levers for a price negotiation Chris. Now if you are handy DIY guy don't be telling the seller. Still a guess at $18000 would seem a fair price when you point out these things, especially if you can do the work yourself. Quite honestly you shouldn't be having to do any work if you give this guy his asking price. (Listen for any chain slapping noises on start up. Is the gear box quiet? Does the cluctch feel nice and not stalling as you release it.) It's not really just how it looks, it's how it feels and sounds. Anything in the brackets and I would be walking away at any price and looking elsewhere. Good luck mate..

Could you enlighten me about "the brackets?". Would that be something that a good PPI would have found? Would they have found chain slapping as well?

All this reading and I just stumbled on a post about having a short commute as being a bad thing. I only commute about 3 miles. As this will be my daily driver, should I worry about that?

From the thread it seems like you looked at someone else's ppi? Or did you pay to have it done at a good porsche independent specialist? They should be able to give you some idea of clutch life left..also what about brake life left ... replacement would cost $1k plus. Aos is cheap but labor expensive to fix unless engine is dropped for clutch. 90k service can easily run >$1K . CLUTCH PLUS IMS AROUND $3-$4k. Window regulator $500 Inc labor ..or it might just be simple glass alignment. Ppi mechanic should be able to explain all these in detail. $18k might be an ok deal .. but these cars are not free to run. Just know what you are signing up for and budget tor it. For 99 model year they also had d chunk issue you can look at on this board. Did pp note condition of oil and coolant? At 80k plus miles you could also be able to run another 80 with regular oil changes like many on these boards have done. My buddy bought an 02 last year with no ppi etc. And was completely unaware of these issues. He loves to drive the car and no issues! Yes problems can happen and will not be cheap to fix on any higher mileage German car. But you cant beat the driving and ownership experience. This is a more realistic option than buying a new one for 100k+ for many of us. Good luck ....

3 mi commute ok as long as you give her a run at the weekends to blow out the cobbwebs ...

I did look at a previous PPI done a couple weeks ago. Brakes were at 10mm and 8mm. Not sure what new brake pads measure. No report of oil/coolant condition. I'm thinking about calling the shop and asking some questions. Thanks for your replies.

What's your top dollar amount your willing to pay? If your top number to pay for a 996 is $20k and has not been fully maintained then look to spend a few more grand on having to do clutch, rms, ims, aos, breaks, plugs.. So roughly another $3500.. So that would put you at roughly $23.5.. For that you could easily find an mk2..

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Really? Show me a 2002 or 2003 996 for $23.5 that would not have the same sorts of issues, or worse.

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Or look at the numbers this way. If the OP is looking to pay the $20K and also looking at another $3-4 K ( easy) in expenses, then the negotiating price should be in the neighborhood of $16.5-18K . my .02

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But the PPI did not say anything about needing a clutch, and an IMS bearing upgrade is not a requirement, just a good idea. The only negotiable issues are the possible leak and the window - probably a regulator. I would spend the money for my own PPI and make sure it includes specific repair costs. Then negotiate as appropriate.

Well, since I just closed the deal on my high mileage (155k) 996 last week, I will jump in for a frame of reference. I traded my 2003 525i BMW plus cash for a total value on the 996 of $13.5k. It was a private party transaction. My 996 is dry and in exceptional condition and runs very, very well. I am very pleased with the deal, I did not get a PPI as its past several owners have been "enthusiast" oriented shops and I feel that even if there was work necessary, I had plenty of room based on the acquisition price. From what I am reading as a newbie on the forum, it appears as though I got a great deal. I have driven the car daily since getting it last Thursday and could not be happier. I would think my purchase would set the low "market" end for a high mileage 996.

What'd I tell you, CR PPI, old PPI, no PPI, etc..... It's too much, it's a great deal, keep looking, etc... If you like the car and you're preppared to handle any repairs, buy it.

Nice looking car. Congratulations!

Let me know if you have picked up the car I know of a rennlister who has a 99 with 60k miles nicely maintained all records and nice mods looking to get $22k..

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Would that be something that a good PPI would have found?....Hopefully (yes) if there was a problem of course. You might want to find the longest way around to your work. 3 miles hardly warms up the car. Leave for work half an hour earlier and take the longest route lol.

Window regulator at my local dealer was charged at $1200 (although I have an extended warranty). These "How Much Should I Pay" threads get goofy. So much depends on your market, your wallet, your patience and your perserverence. Throw in the fear factor of IMS/RMS/AOS etc and it's a wonder anyone ever buys a 996. All cars have issues. Engines blow up from time time whether its a P-car or a Honda. Bottom line. Do your research. Get a PPI. Try to get a good deal-but it should be a fair deal and at the end of the day, you will have a super car for under $30K. And just like when I met my first and only wife, when you know...you know.

It's a done deal!!!! I purchased the car today. Thank you so much to everyone for your input. I'll be taking a few pictures to add to a new thread. A dream of mine since I was a kid has come true today. Can't believe it! Woo hoo! Chris

Congratulations!!!

Atta boy, congrats! Now, forget it and enjoy it.

Congrats!

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Way to go Chris. My 99 is still lots of fun and makes me smile each and every time I drive it.