Porsche to stay with 6 cylinders for 911?

Just curious if anyone thinks that Porsche will eventually - in the near future - switch to a 8-cylinder Boxer engine. The 997S seems to be pushing the limits of a 6 cylinder car at 3.8 liters. Will the next generation 911 have a 8 cylinder to gain horsepower to keep up with the Joneses? A 3.8 liter is already a large 6-cylinder. So, is there a 8 cylinder on the way? I, for one, hope not. The rear end would just get heavier. Or, will the engine move forward a little more - say, somewhere between the boxster's mid-engine and today's 997's rear engine?

I don't know if there's enough room for an 8 cylinder. The only way they could do it would be to make the car larger and move then engine up a bit for a better center of gravity.

I think they will make the car an 8 cly, I also feel that the 911 is going to be more of a GT car, and with that comes a bigger car in general, I just hope they don't sway from the timeless shape.

Well 2 days ago, I got a check engine warning, and I noticed on the info display an engine icon showing a small block V8. Is this an indication of things to come? (j/k)

IMO we'll never see a V8 in a 911 because first, there isn't enough room out back for one. Second, Porsche got a very clear message from it's customers, not to mess with the classic and sacred makeup of the 911, when it introduced the 928 to eventually take its place. Even though (again IMO) the 928 was a much better car than the '80s 911s that were sold in parallel, there was no way - at the time - the "purists" would ever accept a front loaded, water pumping V8 in a Porsche. The 928 did make it for over 10 years. However, it could never survive because it served the same niche market as the 911 and there weren't enough customers (who could accept the new layout) to keep the car alive any longer. Same fate goes for the 924, 944 and 968. I'm not saying these cars were without their own flaws. Times have changed and Porsche knows it. It has new breed of customers, some of who have accepted water cooled 911s and a front engine V8 SUV. So why **** of the devoted when you can keep them happy with a 911 that sticks to (most) of their rules and experiment with new design twists and engine platforms in the Panamera, Boxter, Cayenne and Cayman? Like you though, I do wonder how long they can continue to drill out the boxer six in search of more horses.

I'd guess that the next 911 will have an 8 for the following reasons. - capacity, they cannot make the M96 much bigger - engine speed, the current trend toward high rpm motors (high hp out of smaller displacement) is difficult to achieve when you are dealing with large reciprocating masses (i.e. smaller piston can achieve high rpms more easily) - hp war, 300-400 hp+ sports sedans are all over the place and the new vette makes 400 to 505 hp. It's hard to beat displacement to make power. - others are doing it, BMW (V8 M3, V10 M5), Honda (next NSX V10, rumored to be making a V8), Toyota (next supra rumored will have a V10) I just hope it's a flat 8!!!

Freakin' gas prices might knock it back to 5 cylinders Hello Volvo

Huh? You don't really mean to put the 964 in there, right? You know, the 911 from 1989-1994 with the same flat six, same layout, same body style? Brian

I think the rising gas prices may very well signal the end of the horsepower wars.

Maybe. However, they've been saying that since the 70's.

I doubt it. Porsche knows better. More power doesn't mean it'll be faster as you all know! 911 will always be a sports car. Porsche isn't known for it's luxury or comfort and will be sadly mistaken if making a 911 as a GT car to compete with MB's SL.

It DID end in the 70s. Look at Corvettes (a good HP barometer), in 1970 you could buy the 435 hp tri-carb. The only engine offered in 1979 I believe was less than 200 hp In 1991, the Corvette hp was back to 250...........now at 400 stock 14 years later. You could very well see high performance cars get tuned down.

mabye in the future, the turbo will be the baseline 911, and they will have other superior forms of power enhancement for the 'halo' models

They did build a 3.4L V8 for the new LMP2 car. I would not be surprised to see a road going version of this engine down the road in something other than a 911. Think Cayman V8.

That's right, between my Porsche and my Volvo I have a total of 11 cylinders! The Volvo still only gets 22-24 mpg, although to be fair it has 125k miles.

[Flame suit on] Lol - you guys surely bitch about your low gas price. Here in Europe we have been paying $1.5 per liter for aaaages - thats $5-6/gallon. And we still drive Porsches, V8 Audis, M3 and such. [/flame suit off]

We have a gasoline premium price of approx. 1,30EUR /liter which equals to around 5,00EUR / gallon = 6,00USD This is Europe! Mikko

Yup, and the petrol prices in the UK are again newspaper headline news...soon to hit/break the �1/litre mark, dammit, bloody labour government [/rant end] I think it will very much turn towards the weight-of-vehicle war.....try to emulate what Lotus have been doing for years, latterly with the Elise, originally only ~120bhp with a "bog-standard" Series-1, but boy what a ride, purely down to the bonded aluminium structure and thus lack of weight......you can't keep producing gas-guzzlers and be profitable...(IMHO, of course!! )

A local club member has a Chevy V8 powered 1980's Targa that is really nice. The car is show quality and he displays it at all kinds of venues. His driver is a 2003 Seal Grey Cabriolet. The Chevy V8 actually weighs less than the original motor. He used a ZZ4 for those of you that know the hot rod stuff. Driven through a 930 transaxle. Very Fast.

I hope that's the direction it'll go. You gain so much for losing weight - handling, braking, acceleration, and MPG. It's all these luxury items and electronics that add so much weight. Maybe exotic materials will be used more.

I wish that it would be true, but I just don't see it happening. Safety regulations requiring everything from multiple airbags to pedestrian hood protection will continue to conspire to increase weight. How can manufacturers reduce weight when they have to stuff the car full of extra impact beams, reinforced bumpers, and multiple airbags (not to mention all the crap consumers are demanding now)! Correct me if I'm wrong but every new 911 has weighed more than the model it replaced (with the exception of the 993 => 996). Unfortunately, I think that trend will continue. Bring on the Cayman Clubsport Porsche!

I don't think a Boxer 8 works. It would not fire even because 180 does not divide into equal firing angles. Thats why V8's are 45 degrees and V6's are 60 degrees.

I have no idea what this means. Please explain to the ignorant.

Porsche had flat 8's running in the 904 in the 1960's. It was like 2.0L, but angle of the V has nothing to do with cylinder count. I do agree that the 911 have been getting more GT like all time and do wonder what they will do for the 997 replacement. Seems to me that 3.8L may not cut it size wise. Then again Porsche came out with the 3.6 back in 1989 and only now when to 3.8L for standard road cars. The 964 3.6 makes 250 hp or so while the GT3 3.6 makes some 380 hp. Big jump with no change in displacement. Of course what is telling is there was what only a 30 ft-lbs torque gain, but 130 hp gain.

Neighbor In order for a muli cyl engine to run smooth the firing must be spread evenly around 360 rotation. Also it is common to connect two rods to the same journal to make the engine compact. So with a V8 and 45 degrees between the cyl 360 degrees is divded into 8 equal parts. With a 60 degree V6 it is divided into 6 equal parts. When they tried to make a V6 by cutting the last two Cyl from a V8 it worked but never ran smooth or had proper balance at all RPM's. Hardly a sports car engine maybe OK for a Buick! A inline Boxer works for 6 Cly because 180 degrees can be divided equally by 6 but not by 8. Draw some pictures to see what I'm talking about. I hope this makes it clearer. Steve the old Junk Yard Dog

Yes it does thanks. Never understood that.

I think Porsche could very well evolve the 911 into a bigger/heavier/feature laden GT. You already have 4 seats, cup holders, sunroof, navigation, air bags-o-plenty, power this-and-that, and other things the market seemingly demands from a luxury sports car, and the 911 is a luxury car. Fitting such a car with a TT motor would still provide plenty of motivation and retain the basic platform/heritage/image/style. Probably the majority of owners are not driving these cars to their very high limits anyway, and a more luxurious 911 would have broader appeal and would gain more spouse approval. Porsche could then position the Cayman as a lighter-weight, more "basic" track/enthusiast car where a lower cost M96-derived engine is appropriate. In doing so, there would be less positioning overlap while the 911 could still be a rocket, just not as hard-edged. I'm thinking more Aston Martin direction... In sum, I don't think Porsche has to go to an 8.

Maybe we will get a hybrid w all that space in the front! LOL 911 has gotten more civilized and easier to drive but it's still a sports car and should always be that way. Its basic wheel base will not get significantly lengthened (a trait of GT). With Porsche coming out with a sedan, it would make more sense to build a GT on top of the sedan's chasis (shortened) to make it a coupe. I believe Porsche knows not to mess with its heritage. 911 is the essence of Porsche. This is why new models pop up over the years but 911 hasn't changed. What's interesting is the introduction of CGT and it's effect on future development of 911. Is it likely that 911 will evolve to alum or CF in the future? CGT's engine will undoubtly be adapted into the sedan somehow. I suspect much of the CF manufacturing experienced gained will lead to future incorporation of such material in 911 components such as fender, hood, doors.

How much of the 911 is aluminum. Do you guys think they'll incorporate more aluminum (a la Audi). Didn't the 928 have a liberal use of aluminum? How does aluminum hold up after some time?

911 hood is alum but as far as body panel, I think that's it. Alum isn't good for body work so traditional steel is more practical for fender/door in case you need repair. CF is basically not repairable if you want to keep structural integrity. Exotic materials do have downside besides costing more. 911 engine is alum (not sure if all alum). Suspension is forged alum. I'd like to see alum or CF roof, CF hood, CF instrumentation panels and alum under body.

I think he meant 968

It's interesting to remember that they were able to punch out the 944/968 4 cyl engine to 3.0 liter's. That will give 4.5 liter's as a six using the same displacement per cylinder.

One thing to remember is that they changed the rating from gross to net. For example an engine rated at 345hp gross would drop to 220hp net. http://home.wanadoo.nl/shaul/cf/cf71/cf71spc.htm "ENGINE: Eight-cylinder, 90 degrees V-type. Gross HP 345 @ 4400 RPM. Bore 4.30, stroke 4.06, displacement 472 cu. in. Gross torque 500 ft.-lbs. @ 2800 RPM. Engine mounted in rubber at three points. Compression ratio 8.5 to 1. (SAE net HP 220 @ 4000 RPM. SAE net torque 380 @ 2400 RPM.)"

Porsche is always innovating and developing new ideas. For example the 959 introduced to the 911 platform water cooling, dohc 4v heads, twin turbos, 4 wheel drive, electronic lsd and advanced aerodynamics. Many of these things have showed up on later Porsches and 911's. Mayby we'll see some of the Carrera GT technology in later 911's.