December Excellence aericle on M96

Has anyone read this artical. Best news I've heard in years. there is some discussion on Pelican, plus the flat6 link is for the guy who can fix these motorss. This is good stuff.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=439308 http://www.flat6innovations.com/ oops left out the links

Great info in the article. I'm now considering adding the lower temp thermostat and the IMS shaft bearings as preventative upgrade items. I'm also considering the 3rd radiator to assist in cooling. I'm curious to how much these first 2 items will cost and if they can be done with the motor in car or not to help me ball park the price. Addressing the issue of the "D" chunk cylinder walls and the IMS shaft failure would do a lot to help many owners with their engine longevity concerns.

+1 on everything. The website sounds like he prefers to deal with DIYers rather than Indys. I thought that was a bit odd.

+1 on everything. The website sounds like he prefers to deal with DIYers rather than Indys. I thought that was a bit odd.

At least somebody other than Porsche, is trying to enable engine rebuilds through different channels. Long overdue.

I thought this would catch on big time. This is the best news we've had. At least someone has identified the reasons the failures have occurred. At least in part, if not altogether. there is a ton of info on the flat6 website. It's going to be expensive, but in the long run, our cars will be bullet proof and have GT3 like power without forced induction.

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the picture on the flat6 site of the block with only one cylinder sleeved (delaminating too) is frightening. How could that car have possibly shipped with one sleeved cylinder and the rest as standard? How could that NOT cause a problem? Charles Navarro, who developed the Nickies liners used in this application, is a frequent poster on Rennlist on the air cooled forums, and I've asked him in the past to post over here to clear things up when we had all that huge "I know why these motors blow up" controversies earlier in the year. He knows his stuff. His username is "Charles Navarro" as well, and he's very, very responsive and helpful.

Jake Raby is one of the most helpful and knowledgeable people I've ever met. He's helped us with many VW / Type 4 projects. He rocks.

based on the article, porsche depended on this engine to help get the company get out of trouble and back on track. for all their effort in the field of research, development, and manufacturing, this is what they ended up with...a porous block, cylinders which are subject to slippage and/or cracking, improperly designed ims, RMS issues, weak connecting rods, and cylinder heads subject to cracking. for a car manufacture that its known for its history and racing heritage, this is embarrassing. even today, the rms issue still plagues the 997's including the gt3. you would think that after 10 years dealing with this, that a permanent solution would have been implemented. no wonder porsche wants to put all this behind them with the introduction of the new 9A1 family of engines. but hey, based on their recent track record, this new engine needs to proof itself in the streets and not in the testing lab. getting rid off the ims is a step in the right direction. glad to see tuners getting into the m96 engine re-build and the information described in the article appears promising to all.

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Should you write me a check for $5000 now? Because I think that's about the drop in value of my car after your post...

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I think in the end this will be a positive thing. Porsche has to be embarrassed if these guys fix their mess. They are are on the verge of stopping their core replacements, at least as economically as they have been offered thus far. Since these guys can back up their claims with real data, and fix the motors, Porsche is going to have to admit their errors. Not convinced they will pony up any money, but in the end, if these cars get fixed like the SCs had tensioners upgraded, those of us who do the upgrades, and hold on to the cars, will have something really special. Eventually the market will bear that out. As Jake Raby sells independents into his program it will get less and less expensive to repair over time. I like to see the half full glass

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Point is: these guys cannot back up their claims with real data. I was on their site, I am not sure which data you are referring to? It looks like some pretty aggressive scare tactics, and some angry rhetoric. The hypocrisy is: the M96 is no more troublesome than other Porsche engines (or most sports cars for that matter.) The hype has been built around disgruntled Porsche fans who believe air cooled is the "real" Porsche, and is further fueled by hysterical rhetoric. It doesn't help that 996s are a cheap modern status car, therefore people who cannot afford to maintain them now own them.

Excuse me but where is the article? Have I to be registered in Pelican to see it? Could anyone to scan the article please?

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lets face it...porsche knows how to permanently fix these issues, but it has been cheaper for them to replace these engines and mickey mouse temporary repairs like the "up-dated" seals for the rms issue.

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The article is in this (December) months Excellence magazine. It should be available on stands in the near future as subscribers are just getting their magazines. I got mine at the end of last week. I look forward to Charles or Jake coming to this thread to answer some of the preventative upgrade questions posed earlier, as I'd like to know how to best shore up my motor preventatively and cost effectively.

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I only want the last Issue (december) http://www.excellence-mag.com/subscribe.html As a live in Spain it's difficult for me to call to order a complete subscription. Do you know if It would be possible to purchase this issue in PDF file? This article is very interesting for me Thanks

I really would like to hear what comes of this......

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I think you can order back issues, including this December one, from HERE

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Thanks! I've just sent them an application form to purchase this issue

I like some of the points he said about driving the car. He said basically what I've been saying forever about daily driving: Don't lug the car in high gear/low rpms (he said he always keeps his above 2800), and drive as hard as you want, without abusing it, and to not be afraid of high rpms. Also, change the oil every 5-7.5k miles. I've always driven it this way. I keep rpms below 4000 and don't use full throttle until it's warmed up, but once it is warmed up - I hit redline just about every day. I have 119k on my engine and it runs strong and doesn't burn or drip a single drop of oil between changes.

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Not meaning to hijack this thread, but your white C4S is beautiful Anderson!

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[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/thumbup.gif

I've reading some about this, and It's incredible. Autofarm in the UK is one of the best Porsche specialist. They do the Silsleeve technology. http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/water_cooled I'm one of the 996 owners who would send my engine to be repared with this big bore technology. I can see that Jake is doing something similar. What I find terrific is what Porsche factory is making with the remanufactured engines. The only thing important for Porsche is the money... Incredible to see this...

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It's this last pic here that scared me out of my socks. How could Porsche allow a motor to go into one of their vehicles with a sleeve on one cylinder? Answer: Outsourcing

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Seriously????? Man I thought it was so obvious. I am not disgruntled, hysterical, or any of those things. I have a 996 and a 986S, previously a 97 986. All three cars total have had more than 200k miles and no failures. I'm still excited and intend to sign up as soon as Raby can work me in for a 340 HP Boxster, with no engine issues. I am ready to upgrade both of them , although perhaps only one to begin with. The redesigned oil filter, cooler, and 160 degree thermostat sounds like a plan to me

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No argument from me there, but they could have fixed the 8k CEL issue with the top ends of 993s, pinion bearing of 968s, and the list goes on. The point is porsche is always too busy designing the next latest and greatest to resolve maintenance issues with development personnel. That's not much different than engineering departments in all industries, although the M96 may be one of the worse examples I can think of. Dealers had M96 motors sitting all over their shops, techs dedicated to swapping them out, and got so good at it, an engine replacement could be done in a day or two.

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Not to be argumentative but we are to conclude that this is a 996 engine straight from a 996 chassis straight from the Porsche factory...how can one tell?

Long time lurker... first time poster. I was invited here to shed some light on our program that was highlighted in the Excellence article, and I'll try my best to do this in terms that can be understood by people that are not engine savvy. The following quote from salayc earlier in this thread concerns me, because it isn't accurate and is based only on presumption. I will now break this post down line by line and address all of it's content directly. Absolutely we have data, why do you think Excellence came to us when wanting to do this article? Data, statistics and other forms of trends have been monitored for almost 5 years by LN Engineering, I have been gathering data, researching and working toward understanding these engines and their shortcomings for 3 years. I have two in house engine dyno labs at my facility as well as a chassis dyno and a 28 channel data logging system, all of which have been coupled to extreme dedication and a desire to understand these engines. My R&D is known worldwide from my previous ventures with internal combustion engines (mainly aircooled Porsche and VW) and this is the reason why my services are used by other companies who want independent studies or practical application testing completed for their own products. Trust that we have more data available than anyone outside the confines of Porsche on the M96 engine. Nope- Just facts. I won't sugar coat the issues. The things we state on the site can be quantified by reading any Porsche forum as they are being stated over and over again by people all over the world that have experienced the issues. We have seen these things first hand and thats the biggest difference other than the fact that we are in business and today's typical mind set is to hate the Vendor as we are all stereotyped as evil beings from the bowels of hell that are just here to take your money. Thats not the case with my business or any business that can be found in our network and our past experiences concretely prove this. Assumption. Where is YOUR data to prove that the M96 is no more problematic than any other Porsche engine? If you ask me for data and then make a statement like this one I will also ask for data- it seems only fair. I am one of those aircooled fans that has built 356,914 and 911 engines and have been very impressed with the strengths of these engines as well as their longevity- even at extended power output levels. I do believe that "Real Porsches" don't have radiators and neither do real VWs and also that a "Real" Chevy has a 327 under the hood and isn't built from plastic. The fact is that the past generations of vehicles made their Owners fall in love with them and today car companies sell their modern cars based on the appeal that was generated by these love affairs with the "real" vehicles. It doesn't matter if it's Porsche or Ford today they are all the same. I appreciate the Boxster and 996 for what they are, but I don't compare them with my 912 or any other aircooled Porsche that I have ever owned or driven. Thats partially correct. Today if a Boxster loses it's engine a replacement can cost more than the car could be sold for and the same will probably start occurring with the 996 in a little while. This is partially the fault of Porsche by not making the rebuild parts and references more commonly available to independent Porsche shops. Try buying a set of main engine bearings for your car, lots of places list them but see who has them in stock- the first set I bought took 3 months to source. I got tired of begging for parts, so we are just making it all ourselves right here in the USA, not dependent upon Porsche at all for more than a gasket set for some engines. Aside from providing turn key solutions to this issue with fully updated stock and performance engines my main goal is to provide local independent shops with the knowledge to work on these engines through our own training program as well as making them accessible to a full line of service and update components as well. This will allow shops to WANT to work on your car because they don't have to wonder how to do the work and don't have to search for days to find the internal parts to do the job. In our estimation this will make the M96 engined vehicles maintain their value since they can be worked with and can be made faster and stronger. This is already occurring as several clients have purchased cars with blown engines dirt cheap and had them shipped straight to us for an engine upgrade before they ever laid eyes on the vehicle in person. As the Boxster and 996 become cheaper we are also seeing more of them being made into track only vehicles. With added performance and reliability these vehicles can be tracked with more grin factor over a longer period of time. I'll close by saying that the program we have been honing is multi-faceted and most of it will be shared in 09. We want to help the owner of the car to do work on his own vehicle with support DVDs, the rental and sales of special tools as well as technical consultation via email and telephone. Offering a service that tracks wear metals in the engine oil of your car over each oil change will also benefit the user by helping to forecast the chances of engine failure that a certain car may have compared to others in our data base or the samples of oil that have came from failed engines that we have gathered data from. This oil monitoring service will also assist with the future re-sale of a car that has lower wear metal compositions by proving the oil has been tracked and that no engine failures are probable based on the trend data. I appreciate all the kind words that have been stated on this forum as well as 1/2 dozen others on the net. I also appreciate all of the well wishing emails that we have received and even a couple of letters and goodie boxes that have been shipped to our facility to thank us for our energy with the M96 engine understanding and development. Trust that we are an innovative group of fire-pissing hard chargers that LOVE Porsches and want to help make the M96 live the life of of performance and endurance that has been expected from a Porsche for almost 60 years. Jake Raby President, Flat 6 Innovations www.flat6innovations.com

Bravo Jake!

Jake, first of all, WELCOME TO RENNLIST! It's a pleasure to count with your knowledge. I live in Madrid (Spain) and as I'm one of 3 owners and admin of best spanish spoken forum in the internet, I'm always trying to learn and improve just looking for english and american forums. I've seen 3 engines blown by myself belonging to soloporschers, and have several cases documented in Soloporsche.com We want to get more information, and there are some soloporschers terrified with the M96 issues. In the last 6 months, several 987, 997, and 996 had an engine failure, and as you well know, internet is quite good to get information, but besides It's too dangerous when people become to say stupid things just heard from others without any data, so we have to go with care, and being as more serious as we could be, so I'm very glad to read you here. I could see in your web that what you're doing is very similar to Autofarm. I'm sure that's the only way to have a m96 till the end of the days... I'm very careful with my car and do the oil change and all the rest of maintenance every 10.000 km always with Mobil 5W50. Could you tell us some advices to keep our babies as better as possible? Thanks in advance, and congrats for this fantastic job. Well done , well done

Jake, it is great that you took the time to respond on Rennlist. I, for one, really appreciate you doing this. I am one of those "people that are not engine savvy" for the most part. I understand the basics of internal combustion engines, but that is about it. I learn more each time I read articles like the Excellence article, but "understanding" and "being knowledgeable" are two totally different things. I "understand" while you and many others "have the knowledge," and I certainly appreciate that knowledge. Thanks again for posting and WELCOME to Rennlist!

Jake, Thank you for taking the time and patience to respond. I am sure there will be a lot of questions many of us will ask following your post. I will lead with two. 1. If taking oil sample can measure the "soundness" of an engine. How many miles or hours should the oil must run? 2. This is a question many have asked but no one answered in the forum. Friendships and marriages have ended because of this question: What is the true failure rate of the M96 engine? Rather, my question should be rephrased as: What does your data say and the number of engines in your sampling? Thanks in advance,

Thanks so much for the warm welcome.. I'll enjoy it while I can because if this forum follows the path of others aggressions and scrutiny concerning what we are doing are just around the corner. I want to say that what we are doing is as different from AutoFarm as it is similar. We are using totally different procedures with a totally different material for sleeve composition. The entire program is different from AutoFarm, and thats not a slam on them at all... I appreciate what they have been doing immensely but we have capitalized on the Nickies technology through previous experiences that date back to the first day that LN Engineering opened their doors. We are also putting a ton of effort into the entire engine, not focusing on a single aspect or problem as we want to make global changes that will make the engine better all around as well as make it easier to understand and manipulate for the DIY or independent technician. I'll now address a couple of questions the last poster had.1. At least 5,000. Ultimately to establish trends and be able to make educated forecasts we'll need two years of data and at least 5-6 oil samples from most users. We'll also need to have some members of the program experience engine failures while being monitored to create the trend data needed for the best possible information. This is a HIGHLY criticized topic. My *** would be hung out to dry if I gave any number at all. I prefer to only make general statements on this topic because most has been gathered from here on the net and it's validity would be highly questionable. The only people that know this rate are at the Porsche reman center- they have seen more than anyone. Our numbers of engines is currently only in the dozens and certainly not enough to base anything from for a firm number of failures. In 2-3 more years we'll have enough sampling to know some solid figures and by then the numbers will be even greater as mileage increases. All I can say is drive it like you would if you were dying... Meaning have as much fun as you can and just don't worry about it. If it's gonna fail all you can do is sit back and wait for the bang. Worrying or selling the car won't keep it from occurring. When it breaks know that it can be made better, faster and stronger without any assistance from Porsche.

It doesn't get much better than the 996 forum right now. We have hit the mother lode as far as expertise for our cars. It's like having Pete Zimmerman on the aircooled 911 forum, only Jake has moved a notch up from helping listers fix their cars to Jake developing a better design. The more of us who get these fixes, the more data is collected, the more is learned, it's like a Catch 22 clockwise, if you get my drift. How far have we come since the guy who had three catastrophic failures in his first year of being a 996 owner? He was crucified on this forum for being negative. I can't believe I forgot his name.

It's hopeful to hear what can be done if we have an engine 'failure' other than the only prior option, which was a remanufactured engine from Porsche. Thanks for chiming in so quickley Jake, and welcome to a great forum. Nice to know that 996 owners may be able to forecast future engine problems...before they occur. Thanks again Jake.

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+996

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Jake, Welcome to RL. Thanks for answering my questions over on BoxsterSpec. And thanks for your contributions to the M96 world. We needed options. -Paul

Yet again I appreciate the positive remarks... Today has been like every other day in the past week or so since the article hit the stands- filed with phone calls from those interested and also from those who are just emailing or calling to say "Thanks". We have lots of challenges in front of us and lots of work if this program is to be successful. The positive energy that has come from the majority of threads like this one here on the net certainly makes it easier to put in the long days needed to attain our results. One thing that I need from members here and across the net is the contact information of local shops across the country that may be interested in using our technology. There are many more of these engines needing service/repair/update than we can service at our facility and we desperately need to get others trained on the problems and the fixes because not everyone is as lucky as smshirk is having our facility 45 minutes from his house.(he got on my build schedule today for a 3.2 based big bore 3.6 performer!)

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Here's the problem: I am not questioning your ability to work on or repair these engines. But, as far as I know, no one outside of Porsche has failure rates, because Porsche's not telling. You have a sampling of engines and I am sure you can tell us a lot about those. But, respectfully, you see broken engines for the most part, so I am not sure how you could surmise failure rates from that, and that's primarily what members here are looking for. I stand by the statement, your home page lists "Porsche's disposal engine" first, and I don't think many of us would read http://www.flat6innovations.com/stock.htm and not conclude that there is some speech a bit outside of "just the facts" This is sort of what I'm talking about. You are correct, that is anecdotal. However, there is a pretty well established history. Don't get me wrong. It sounds like you know what you're doing. The response was not directed at you and your company as much as the endless speculation on this site and others by uninformed owners. However, it may help to calm the hysteria around these cars by tempering the language on your website. I find it very unprofessional for your company's stated policy to be: "They play their games, we play ours!" Welcome to Rennlist

salayc, You DID question our abilities in general when you made a blanket (and false) statement that we lacked data concerning this engine. In my experience data is everything because one must understand the issues and the failures to ever be effective with addressing them and providing solutions for them- so when you state that we have no data you are also indirectly stating that we are ineffective in general. As far as being negative about Porsche by saying "They play their games and we play ours" it simply means that they have purposely taken parts from their supply system that are needed for independent shops to work on the engines. Tell me how this is fair to anyone? These actions were done to keep regular shops from being able to make repairs to the engines and that is very clear to see. Another example is a couple of simple tools (that we made ourselves) that Porsche sells for 2,000 bucks to assemble the engine- yet again this is done to promote engines being sent back to the factory to be remanufactured. Now, put yourself in my shoes as a person thats trying to understand these engines and trying to purchase something as simple as a set of main bearings or an IMS bearing to buy simply to study, trying to find it's inadequacies. You'll be up against a system where nothing is available in most instances and that becomes very frustrating and then you end up just like me, fairly disgusted with a manufacturer that will produce an engines and not keep a supply system with adequate repair parts. These actions were effective for almost a decade and kept lots of people from opening up the engine because they knew the parts, tools and assembly procedures didn't exist. Normal shops that aren't filled with engine developers, component designers and a full CNC machine shop with everyone working as a team would not have had the capabilities to just make the parts, make them stronger and do it all without having to order anything with a Porsche part number to recreate the engine. Fight that opposition for about 3 years and you'll also see that its not fun and it's not fair to ANYONE that owns one of these cars equipped with an M96 engine. What happens when the support program from Porsche for these engines is discontinued? Who will work on your car's engine internally? How will they get the tools? Where will they get the parts? I state things the way I see them and I'll stand proudly and debate with the best when challenged. A vocabulary of things that "people want to hear" doesn't exist with me. (yeah I am pretty old fashioned, though I am not very old.) More than likely you never expected the guy that was featured in the article would care enough about his work to enter a forum and note your post-. Know that anything that I am involved with will be done completely. As far as "calming hysteria" I am the guy thats promoting the "drive it and not worry about it" mindset. What I have been telling everyone is simple, change the oil more often, drive the car the way a Porsche should be and if the engine scatters deal with it- most people won't ever have a problem. Worrying about an imminent issue does no good, keep AAA paid up and wait for the bang! (most will never hear one

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I think you're misreading the post: having data about failure rates and having the ability to fix an engine are totally separate. I am confident you have valuable knowledge and expertise. My response about data was directed at smshirk who stated (presumably based on your website) that you can back up your claims with "real data." I didn't see real and comprehensive data about M96 failure rates on your site. And I think your approach on the website hurts 996 owners in general. I think manny_g post stating the M96 has " a porous block, cylinders which are subject to slippage and/or cracking, improperly designed ims, RMS issues, weak connecting rods, and cylinder heads subject to cracking." is only partially correct and shows the accepted hysteria surrounding these engines. For example, how many porous blocks have you seen? or "slipped" cylinders (I guess he was thinking of cylinder liners?) Perhaps we misunderstand each other: on this site, users referring to " real data" generally mean engine failure rates. I would assume you have a lot of data about failed engine causes. I still value the information you can provide about the engines. And, don't get me wrong, I am glad to see you post based upon your experience.

Bob ? was the guy whose car torpedoed three times in succession inside a year. Does anyone remember how to get in touch with him. He really needs to hear all this, and especially to visit flat6's website. Seems like he bought an Aston Martin or something after the last time his car broke. I've been searching for those threads. I think it may have been in 2005 or 2006. He really took some abuse, granted he brought some of it on himself, but he got very little support here. I think it may vindicate him a little to hear what's been learned. I know I tried to speak up on his behalf once or twice and was flamed for my trouble. Not that it matters, but if anyone can find the threads I would like to try and get in touch.

. The data about failure RATES and the failures themselves are totally different. I don't care anything about rates, except reducing them. Real data about the mechanical aspects of the failure and what leads to them. Not how many of what has failed, we have some of that information (quite a bit) but other than logging the engines, their modes of failure and how they were driven they won't do much good for solving the actual issues that lead to the failures. . Thats because we won't divulge everything- no one that has the outlay of time and money we have into this program would. We are on the cutting edge of a sword that was pretty dull for many years and we certainly care nothing about training our competitors. Been there and done that with the aircoled world. Thats odd, because many 996 Owners think what we are doing is a stimulant to the 996 and the Boxster and will lead to a stabilization of the market for the cars. These people have voiced this on no less than a dozen forums since the Excellence article was released less than two weeks ago. If stating the truth is disappointing I am guilty as charged. I suppose it's different when people have failures and post about them or when other people start sites that are focused on the inherent issues and failures associated with these engines, because they are not in business. Fact is these sites and forums are more damaging to the M96 than anything else, so you had best start slapping wrists every time anyone says anything negative about scattered parts anywhere on the net. And guess what, those same things are covered in the Excellence article with pictures depicting what they look like. It's not my job to keep up with every engine that fails, it is my job to see why those that are sent to me failed, attempt to understand them and then address them. I do not employ a statistician. Maybe we do misunderstand each other: I feel that failure rates and causes of the failures are two different things. To attain a rate of failure one must first know the entire scope of how many engines Porsche made of certain sizes and level of update and they must know about the failures. Gaining these rates without variables being imposed is early impossible as I bet not even Porsche logged exactly what version of the IMS, cylinders and other components were used in EVERY car. You can't attain a rate without knowing exactly how many units of exact composition were created. Call Porsche and see if they'll tell you. I look for broken engines for cores and most people don't send us a core unless it's broken (unless they are smart and fix it before it breaks) so I am going to have a much higher rate of broken engine exposure than anyone else. I'll also say that I care nothing about bitching about how Porsche has screwed the engine up and I don't care about suing them for the creation of the M96 engine, so how many engines have failed doesn't mean much to me at all. All I care about is keeping my failure rate at ZERO for absolutely as long as possible- what Porsche should have cared about. Thank you. Perhaps we will understand each other better now.

Well, that took a while to come up to speed on, I just opened this today, sorry for the late arrival... Jake... Welcome and Thank you for your insight and optimism for a business that should in the end benefit the water world or Porsche owners. I am sure this is not all cut and dry, but its good to see a movement towards an understanding. I will try not to get too far behind if this thread is going to reach epic scale!! PS... want some of my oil? 106xxx miles on the original mill

Folks the bottom line is we all now have a choice in the matter where before we had very little. Before when your engine goes bang as mine did (a buddy of mine had two 3.4 go 1 year apart) you got yourself another reman from Porsche. Now you have a choice of rebuilding your original engine and upgrading it significantly wrt longevity and if it is your choosing also performance. Not only that but from what I see on Jake's site I can now also refresh/do preventative upgrades/improve performance to a tired engine or one that is starting to getting long in the tooth.

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My point exactly. I hope you're right, and I think what you are doing is great. How you are saying it on your website is not (IMO.) Nah, there's not porus blocks or "slipped cylinders" in the article, so consider his wrist slapped.

Salayc Quote: Perhaps we misunderstand each other: on this site, users referring to " real data" generally mean engine failure rates. I would assume you have a lot of data about failed engine causes. I am an engineer in another field dedicated to resolving failed products and developing solutions to those failed products after they have been proven unreliable by paying customers. The data I collect, sort, graph, and include in flowery power point presentations are used to impress executives sometimes, but the "real data" I use in my job, and the "real data" I refer to in my original post about Jake is all about root cause. Statistics rarely lead to root cause, although most executives, that do not necessarily understand the nature of the equipment, the failure mechanisms, or the resolutions, like to believe they can predict reliability by determining MTBF (mean time bewtween failure) and other meaningless stats. My comment about Jake having real data was meant that I believe he has identified not only the root cause of many if not all of the engine failures, but has also designed parts and processes that will prevent those failures going forward. As an added benefit, he also makes them significantly stronger, read faster...... Perhaps you and I just do not agree on what "real data" means.

If our work impressed this guy enough to open his wallet that makes me feel REALLY damn good! (smshirk I am finishing your proposal as I type this, you'll have it tomorrow morning!:-)

I have a couple of thoughts: 1- PCA's website has U.S. production numbers for 1999-2000: linky, linky -- roughly 22k produced for 1999 and 2000. In a post on a different forum, a member mentioned how many 3.4L reman engines were in PCNA's warehouse from the beginning of Summer to the end of Summer: linky, linky 2- I'm not sure if Porsche is an "Apple" or a "Microsoft." Buy a proprietary & magical black-box or wait until Service Pack 3 before making a purchase. ///Michael

Hi Jake Thank you for the info, and it is nice to see you here. You must be a very busy man, but if you can, simple questions: 1. Why is it that many engines fail, and many don't- bad driving? bad parts? 2. Do you have any plans for your program in Canada? Lastly, a semi-stupid (but fun) question: 3. What is the maximum Horse Power you intend to get out of a 996 3.6L, while maintaining ZERO failure and reliability John

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As I read, and a friend of mine (well expert in Porsche who knows staff from Zuffenhausen Motorsport since 25 years) told me that in the factory they use about 50 engines per each pattern (mould or whatever would be the name -in spanish "molde"). He's like a Porsche eminence. The cast is very important, but Porsche prefers to save cost overmaking lots of pieces with a single mould. You know that they are tolerances and the pieces they made (as every factory) pass a quality control. Quality control labs dont' check everything, they choose a sample and analyze it. But not all the cast are 100% perfect, and not all the internal pieces are 100% perfect. Engines failures were caused in part because of bad material in the intermeadiate shaft bearing as all we know. Autofarm replaces it as you can see here: http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/wa...led/shaft_tech An here is the Silsleeve technology by Autofarm: http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/wa...silsleeve_tech Jake explaind us what they are doing (not the same as this) I think it's very important to count with private Porsche specialist who want to solve the M96 engine problems. I'd like to know what is the HP achieve in a 3.8 l engine rebuild by Jake too.

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138 to 1 in 3 to 4 months!!! Wowzer........

First off, as referenced by an above poster, Autofarm is applying the updated IMS offered by Porsche. This is not the direction we have gone as no Porsche part number is found on the unit pictured below. It is 100% made in USA and is grossly overbuilt in every way. The Autofarm method of solving cylinder issues creates a "closed deck" engine from what was an "open deck" engine. There are differences in the cooling characteristics of each of these methods and we chose to retain the open deck design to enhance the engine's cooling capability (which is why Porsche used an open deck design originally). This is why I state that our approach is as different to that of AutoFarm as it is similar. Sure. Luck has lots to do with it as well as service intervals and the way the engine is driven. There is certainly no single common denominator to any of the failures we have seen, everything adds up. We ship engines to canada without issue. Thus far we have not received any interest from Canadian independent shops that are wanting to be our licensed representatives, but I am sure they will come with time. We are building a 3.6- X61 engine into a 3.8 at the present. This engine is to provide 425HP and we'd certainly expect it to be as reliable as the other engines we are producing but only time will tell what occurs at these very high HP levels. Our standard 3.8 liter engine, based from the 3.6 is rated at a modest 350HP

Ok Mr. Raby, I have to ask. How much money are we talking for the 425hp 3.8?

This one HAS to be based from a 3.6 engine... By the time it's all said and done and we equip the engine with one of our billet cranks and every other development this will be a 20K power plant. Most engines aren't at this level, and the cost of admission isn't for the faint of heart or shallow wallet!

Will the stock ECU control the 3.8? Reflash? Piggyback?

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there is no mention of this on this particualr article, but these issues have been discussed and well documented on previous Excellence and Autofarm literature. based on what I have read, the porous block issue did occur during the intitial production line of these engines and the culprit was due to the casting process. also as a matter of fact there was a post on the 997tt forum where a new owner had its engine replaced because of a porosity issue as well. so i guess its my turn to slapp your wrist...but dont worry i wont hurt you...

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Much respect for posting the price! Most vendors will not. Good luck on this venture!

Jake, Thank you for being here to talk to us. I enjoyed the article in Excellence, I am enjoying your responses to the folks here. I feel a WHOLE lot better about my '99 996 coupe (3.4, 41,500 miles, no stranger to the daily drive or the track, never any issues - so far). What REALLY makes me happy is to see you are just up the road from me, so, if/when the balloon goes up, I know I have a place to go for the answers other than an engine exchange "program". I wasn't even "skeered" about my engine until I joined Rennlist. LOL! You have set my mind at ease. Please do not retire any time soon - I plan to drive my 996 for a long time.

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Don't worry about retirement for me unless you plan to have your car for 35 more years or so :-) Glad to see that the Excellence article and our program has made you more enthusiastic about your car- thats what we want to see and hear. Yes, we are about 6 hours from Jacksonville, and its a lovely drive into the Mountains to reach the hilltop where we work diligently away from the traffic lights and headaches of modern society :-)

Jake, I read your recommendations in pelican forum: Cut the oil service intervals that Porsche recommends in half... Upgrade to our oil filter housing and upgraded filter and thats really about it. We have done significant testing with our test car in regard to oil service intervals and I have monitored the points that fuel and coolant intrusion begin to degrade the oil and thats about 1/2 the Porsche service interval. Could explain us what is this oil filter housing? and , how to purchase it? Thanks

jake...its finally refreshing to communicate with someone with first hand knowledge on this subject. question...what ius exactly your relationship with LN Engineering and the other firm in the article...i'm sorry but i forget their name and do not have the article in front of me. with respect to engine modifications, does your shop do all of it, i.e. liners, ims up-grade ect. or do you source some of that work out. thanks..

There are three individual companies that have worked as a team on the M96 development. Our three companies have worked together with a couple of other companies for the better part of a decade solving engine issues with the aircooled Porsche and VW engine. When exploring the M96 it was only natural for us to team up and work as a team yet again to do these processes more effectively, completely and more efficiently. We each have different roles. Charles at LN Engineering is the genius with the cylinder technology and he is the manufacturing guru. He has masterminded the IMS revamp, cylinders and most of the manufacturing of the components. Len Hoffman is our cylinder head technician. He has developed the cylinder head procedures, updated valve train components, Turbo specific ports and port margins as well as many other aspects of the CNC port replication procedures. Len's heads have helped us to make more power than anyone else in our previous explorations within engines. Me, well I bring everything together. I am the guy with the test equipment and assembly capabilities and the guy that specializes in completing the "programs" that make things tick. we do the assembly of the engines using LN parts and Hoffman heads- It takes a team to achieve results and we have all worked together to solve issues in the past. Together there isn't much we can't do with our capabilities and experience.

Thank You Jake. You make this forum much more interesting and informative. John

Great thread! I've bookmarked this one so I can find it again, when and if a serious engine issue ever comes up on my 2000 996. Thank you!

Calling Dell!!! Please input your statistics lesson here, inquiring minds want to know.

Forthright....knowledgeable....and preliminarily seems to have a rare commodity....credibility. Good to see this sort of discussion taking place with a response from the head Kahuna who isn't afraid to come out of the woodwork and into the spotlight to address potential criticism, issues, company structure, or other miscellaneous questions in a manner that would suggest we're dealing with a professional. Pretty refreshing if you ask me. My compliments....

Hi Jake, Thanks for taking the time to respond to this thread. Would you recommend adding the lower temp thermostat that you make or a 3rd radiator (GT3) for additional cooling "insurance" as preventative upgrading as to avoid the D chunk failure? Also, the larger bearings for the IMS shaft that you produce. Would you recommend retrofitting to a motor that has had no issues to date as another preventative upgrade? And if so, can this be done with the motor in car or does it have to come out? Being that I have a MY 99 which is one of the more suspect year cars, I'd like to do what I can within reason to reduce the possibility of my motor grenading. It is however, nice to know that if it does, you provide options. Thanks in advance, Pete

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+1 across the board on these points