supercharging

please let me here from some members who are happy with there supercharged p cars 996. have 2003 c4s and would love some imput. really need help deciding.thank you all in advance.

Thought about it, bailed. Want something more reliable the more I track the car. X51, X73.

Both Robyn and I are pleased with our SC'd cars....and we've both tracked them without issue. Robyn?

I was going to do it, but went with the GT3. I sure wish there were more history.

If I had a choice to either SC my car or get a GT3, I'd get the GT3 in a second.

How do you handle smog testing in CA with a supercharged 996?

Not sure yet, I have 2 more yrs before I'll need to smog it. most likely just uninstall the SC and get it smogged. It's a hassle, but only every 4yrs.

Love mine and it performed great on the track over the weekend. It's one fast *** car.

Kirby, that's a lot of freakin' work, hope they fix the smog test problem soon, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

You can have your SC'd car back to looking stock in 2 - 3 hours. Many on this board spend more time than that polishing their wheels. I suspect that the only people who will bad talk the suopercharger are those that have never experienced a properly installed system. Therefore, take their advice with that in mind.

What would be more helpful is to here from people that are NOT happy with their SC. I think we will not here from these people however for the following reasons: 1. It really is that good. 2. I would have a hard time saying that a $10+ mod sucked. Maybe it would be good to hear from people that have had their car SCed what they would like to see improved, like smog cert.

Ok. Here is what I hate about my supercharged 996: 1: I hate the instant power I have at all times. 2. I hate it when I have to look at most other performance cars in my rear view mirror. 3. I hate the fact that the car performs exactly like stock until you call for boost. 4. I hate the fact that I can restore my car to completly stock in a few hours. 5. I hate the fact that I can shut off my car immediaelty after driving it hard (no cool down). 6. I hate being able to get to 100 mph in under 9 seconds. 7. I hate it's dependability. 8. I hate that I didn't have to rebuild the engine to gain additional power. I can go on and on, but I hate thinking about it.

I am not pro- or anti-supercharger. However, I think that you really need to ask yourself whether you really need one (or if it is merely a want), and if so, why. If you are very honest with yourself in this analysis, you may well find that a supercharger either (1) is not worth the cost or (2) is not the best option for your purposes. On the other hand, if you do go ahead and install the supercharger, then you will be less likely to have buyer's remorse after having thought about this the right way. For example, if you just use your car on the street, what difference will a supercharger make to you? Is it worth the extra cash for that "difference"? Could you use the extra money to get a different car that serves your street purposes better? If you use your car for the track, have you already done everything else that you can to make your car trackworthy? Every track rat with whom I have ever spoken has said that engine modifications are the very last thing you should do. Assuming this is true, are you allotting sufficient funds/time for DE or instruction? Have you already modified your suspension? Have you already made your car as light as possible? Have you installed proper safety equipment? If so, would it make more sense to get a different track car (i.e., GT3 or cup car) or to go ahead and install a supercharger? Take the time to think it out before you plunk down that much cash. Of course, if you want and you can, then why not even if it doesn't make sense? I personally will be following a different course, but I can understand the appeal

Man, I really hate that you said all that stuff!! Oh...and I hate when some folks think I am going to go buy shoes with all the money I save on gas with having a supercharger! I also hate the fact that if that were the case, I would do it MUCH faster than them. Yeah, I hate that....

Robyn and Itzkirb, As enthusiasts who chose to go with a supercharger, what do you think about the "decisionmaking framework" I described above? Do you think it would be useful to someone thinking about whether to get a supercharger? Have I left anything out? TD

Life is too short to spend time THINKING about what to do. That is for people who were rather follow others than lead. The extent of the thought precess on all things is YES or NO. That's it! Decisions are made only on thoise 2 variables and then life contnues. Sorry that I didn't spend too much time thinking about what I just wrote, but I too busy living my life. I Think?

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Actually, I think what you have done is provide a tool for talking ones self right out of doing the SC. Which I nearly did ...and if I had, I'd be wearing a pink Rolex at the moment! I have NO regrets for having gone the direction I did. However, with that said, the first sentence in your post is the most fundamentally applicable. It's the question of "want" vs. "need". Nothing about a Porsche,the car itself, it's after market parts, performance parts, posuer parts, can be defined as a "need"...it's ALL "want". And the reason I say this...because it really makes everything that follows it in your post, a bit irrelevant. (Although the questions are good...I just think...you are over thinking.. ) If it's too much money, don't do it. If you care about resale value, don't do it. That's about it ...I think....

....you're right of course, thinking is for grown-ups. It's a shame you have nothing useful to contribute to this debate. When's your next drag race with the ricers?

Actually Robyn, I agree, and I see that my post may have been misunderstood a bit. As I said in my last sentence, if you want and you can, why not? I actually think exactly the same way. What I am really saying is that it might be helpful to think of the car as an entire "system" rather than as a bunch of individual parts, and that the best "system" might be different for different people depending upon how they use their car. In other words, there is no one right answer. Of course, if someone has an unlimited budget, they can do whatever they want. Since we are talking about people with 99-01 C2s, I am assuming that budget is somewhat of an issue or they probably would have a different car. If you are working with a limited budget, then it is helpful to think about your entire car and how you use it. For example, you might find that suspension or brake mods will improve the car more for the way you use it than a supercharger. You, and Itzkirb, did about as much to your car as you could BEFORE you installed the supercharger, which I think is the right way to go about it. It could be that an entirely stock 99-01 car with a supercharger might be less enjoyable than a 99-01 car with modified suspension, brakes, wheels and tires, and aerokits (etc . . . ).

Before this gets ugly... Jim spends a lot of time trying to explain the benefits of a properly setup SC'd 996. His posts are always very educational and informative. I myself have learned a lot from him. It's been a bit frustrating lately for those of us who have gone forward with SCing our cars from the constant digs and naysayers; who mostly speak from their emotional/conservative sides. We are all a little furstrated about it. Someone pipes up and asks us our opinions of what we have done....(and not like putting new wheels on or flushing the brake fluid...we are talking serious mods) and we get slammed with "don't do it"..."your car is gonna blow up"...blah blahs typically. Anyhow...have a good one.

Robyn and Jim, For the record, I am not one of the naysayers or trying to slam anybody. I didn't explain why the supercharger is not for me, but it has nothing to do with scorn for the option (I actually imagine it would be a blast). I don't want one because I use my car for Driver's Education, and I think that horsepower can mask driver error. I need to make myself better before I make my car faster. That's all. It is one of the same reasons why I do not go out and get a Turbo or a GT3 even though I could. The whole reason for my long and complicated post was to foster a constructive discussion rather than the typical "yea, it is the greatest thing ever" versus "why would you ever do such a stupid thing." TD

Robyn/Jim - apologies for any offence caused - I'm not a 'frequent flyer' in these forums and so obviously missed the previous SC discussions. Shouldn't have over-reacted! I had actually been considering this option myself (in the UK) - but have decided to go down the 996TT route instead when funds allow.

I'm in the middle of the road re sc's, almost pulled the trigger 3 times. For the time being, I've decided to go a more conservative route, looking for reliability at the track (not Sat. nite grude races at the dragstrip). Hence, I'm going with the x51/x73 factory setup. Can't help but remember my friend James with his sc that developed a nasty oil leak 5hrs from home at Watkin's Glen. If you have a sc, good for you, but don't have a chip on your shoulder about it, most folks on this forum are a little more old school and are very skeptical of sc's.

I wouldn't be too apologetic Jim has many, many useful posts (most definitely more than I do), but that last one was not one of them.

The point I was trying to make is that too many people spend more time "thinking" about things than actually doing things. The sooner you make a decision, the sooner you find out whether it was right or wrong. Thankfully, most people are slow to decide and that has benefited me greatly in life, especially in the equity market from where I have made my living for many years. There is truth in the old saying "**** or get off the pot".

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif

Yes, true enough, but, as you should also know from your experience in the equity market, you still need to know what you are saying "yes" to, otherwise you are an idiot. You may be a lucky idiot, but an idiot nonetheless. Want to buy stock in my new company, quick, don't think just act! As I explained to Robyn, it is helpful to those who are trying to decide whether to get a supercharger or not to hear more than "it is the best thing ever" or "it is the worst thing ever," so I was trying, albeit unsuccessfully, to guide the discussion in a helpful direction. I myself am not indecisive and I made my decision without spending any time thinking much about it, but my reasons will not apply to all.

OK, sorry I didn't reply sooner I was waiting for a fight to break out! haha, Just kidding... OK, Like almost everyone I took a while to decide whether to get the SC or not. The reason I DID get the SC was that I have a good relationship with my Service advisor and the shop that did the install. Both were very supportive. Don't get me wrong I know it voids the warranty, but I feel I made the right choice. I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Sorry, but that is NOT the way I play the market. I DO NOT, always know, or care anything about the underlying company represented by the stock. I have made more money off companies I knew nothing about than those that I did. I am glad that there are those people who do take the time for reseach, since those are the people I sell my shares to when they finally decide to buy at the top. So thanks to those slow do decide. As far as name calling, it is confirmation that you have no valid response when someone disagrees with you but to revert to your childhood manners. Maybe you should try growing up and learn from some of us who may know more than you. Thanks to people like you, the rest of us look pretty good.

Kirby, It was this comment that led me to write my first post in this thread. Care to expand? TD

I have both a 99 C2 SC and an 03 GT3. Each is different and I like my 99 better. Although, I may be SCing the GT3 which will be fun.

Like when you post under multiple names to support your own posts. Is that what grown ups do?

Do you always believe what some other disgruntled poster says? Don't live by the headlines, but get the whole story.

I would get the GT3 as it is a limited production car...well it's supposed to be, everyone seems to have one? I feel a GT3 is a car you can get and just leave it the way it is (Ok, maybe a few minor mods). It's tuned for the track and streetable. BUT! Then again I thought when I first bought my 996 that it was going to be perfect the way it was. These forums are DANGEROUS!!!!!!

Jim, I didn't call anybody any names. I cleary said in my last post that most of your posts are very helpful. I COMPLIMENTED YOU rather than insulted you. When you buy equities the way you describe, you ARE thinking, you just are not admitting it. You are speculating pure and simple. You may make individual decisions quickly, but you are able to do so only because you thought out your goals in advance. When I was talking about people who act without thinking, I WAS NOT DIRECTING IT AT YOU. The you was "generic" rather than "specific." I even used stupid emoticons to show that I was being tongue-in-cheek. The worst thing that I have said about you was that your single post was not helpful. Geeezzzz. I go out of my way to be polite to everyone. Actually, the only one who has insulted anyone is you, when you insulted me. Fortunately, I will live. I don't know how many times I have to say it but I do not think that people who supercharge are stupid, or that it is a stupid choice. My God, I don't know how many more times I would have to say it. My very first post started out with "I am not pro- or anti-supercharger" and it ended with "If you want to and you have the money, why not?" I am not trying to talk anybody out of getting a supercharger. I don't care. I WAS trying to get people like you, Robyn and Itzkirb to provide some good and useful information about why you did what you did, rather than just saying "**** or get off the pot" and life is too short, which I think misses the point. Also, contrary to your assumption, I am not indecisive. I am not one of the people for whom you thank God. (double meaning intended). I am not agonizing over the supercharger decision. I have spent more time writing these posts than I have thinking about superchargers. Relax. I have no beef with you and I am not trying to insult you. And I don't really care how you spend your money, or how you made it. TD

I don't know why Robyn got her car SC'd....i think it's wasted on a woman...blonde for that matter! NOW THOSE ARE FIGHTING WORDS!!!

Thanks, and that makes sense. Yes, these forums are dangerous. You personally are to blame for the rims that are being installed on my car today. Just to be clear I AM NOT INSULTING YOU AND I DON'T CARE THAT YOU HAVE A SUPERCHARGER. Everyone is a little sensitive today so I just thought I would reiterate.

I read the posts and I know what the moderator said. What is "the whole story"?

Be sure to post pics with the new wheels! My little tiptronic guy, haha

HOW DARE YOU INSULT ME LIKE THAT

Back to problems with Supercharging the 996. I had a hell of a time. To start I was #19 and the first C4S in the US. The closest shop that would try the install was 3hr drive and their first. It took 6 weeks. One of the early problems was the belt eating radiator hoses. After that disaster we found that the pully was on backward from the factory and that caused it to eat belts. Then check engine lights galore. Wrong MAF, seems they changed ever so slightly from 01 to 02. I am really getting good at taking that baby apart. Air cleaner changing is a bitch and needs to be done frequently if you drive in crap like I do. So I finally towed the car to Evo in Az. Todd fixed everything pretty well and it dynoed at 411 and the intercooler is still not pumping correctly, so I have an idea on how to get the air bubble out. All in all it runs like a bat out of hell and gets great milage. I am going to keep the car and am still doing mods, eg GT2 bumper and wing. There is more but I will stop for now. Will

Will, would you do it all over again? Chris BTW, did you decide on a wing?

I almost pulled the trigger on a used Turbo twice but it was going to be 35 to 40 k differance and my car was newer and I liked the smooth exterior better. If I had known all the hassels were going to happen I would not have done the SC, but now that it is done I am satisfied. Foremost get an experienced shop and preferably close. Those of you with that advantage are lucky. But then again I can fly fish and hunt in my back yard. I do love the car and am committed. Read the M5 forum about Supercharging the BMW M5. What a nightmare, and its 35000 plus. The Dinan stage 3 is 35k and you get 70 hp. (nl aspiration).. I have done Tubi exhaust and wheels on the beast and thats it. Im doing the Misha GT2 wing and NRauto GT2 urtehane bumper this weekon my C4S. Ill post pictures when done. Will (by the way, dont spend all that money on the X51, less torque in low range and the dyno at Todds showed no increase over stock when the X51 was supercharged)

Will, Thanks for the detailed info. TD

You guys & gal are too much! LMAO.... By the way how much are you now saving on gas? Has anyone conducted their own test? -Eli

Hey, I forgot to mention I saw 2 997's at Evo when I was there last month with superchargers going in and that has to give you confidence in the system. Also Todd is doing the SC without the intercooler and lower boost and less exspense for the 996. The power is supposed to be about 380 and boy is that air cleaner easier to change. Will

tell us the whole story then. that "other" poster has IP addresses and when it was called out the whole thing got quiet. looks like you've lost your credibility

I'm absolutely on the same page with ya TD.

really?!?! that's something i would go for. i was talking to todd a while back about a lower boost SC to get it to gt3 power levels. for me and my driving abilities anything more is kind of a waste.

Yeah, but at least I CAN drive a stick shift!!! This blond can handle it...you on the other hand my friend...drive a slow chicktronic!! At least you can't stall that slow mobile out!!! How many times was it you stalled my car last week??? Hmmmm???? You can't handle the power little boy!!! BRING IT!!

The reasons I SC'd my car: I had the money. I was feeling adventurous. I am not concerned in the least about resale, I'm keeping the car. The pink Rolex wasn't "speaking" to me like 470 hp was. Since Kirby hadn't blown his up yet, I figured, what the hell. (I let Kirby try everything first.) I typically don't regret many desicions in life...including this one...however, I'd still like to have that Rolex!

Right now, I'm saving aproximately $20 pre gas tank on gas compared to my mileage before. Not bad...that's beer money!

DOH! That was supposed to be our little secret!!

Hey, desperate measures were required!! You played the blond female card afterall!!

True True...OK Dinner NEXT WEEK! Can't this week.

Sounds good, I can't this week either. If I make it through this week...I'm gonna need a lot of these... Let's do Sushi, I'm totally jonesing!

Will, what was the final cost on the sc, all the hassles and all. PM me if you want. Chris

Wow, this thread grew fast! I've had the SC on my '99 cab for a couple of weeks now, and really love it. The added power is definitely quite noticeable on the street, but I'm really looking forward to taking it on the track next month. Should be a different car from the one I've been used to driving in DE's. We'll see. =Carlos=

thank you all for your usual great input. would like to here more user info on supercharging.the reason i bought the c4s over the gt3 is because it is my all time favorite body style.thanks again.c4consult

this board is the greatest. i wish i could meet all of you in person.thank you all so very much.i live one hour west of fort worth and all the roadways are covered with flowers and few cops. a great place to drive.again thank you all.c4consult

I have a 2001 c2 with nearly 60k miles. Should I not consider SC'n this car due to milage?

Oh yes, you absolutely have to!!

Again, I DO NOT MEAN THIS AS AN ANTI SUPERCHARGER COMMENT, but while I was speaking with RUF this past week (I won't tell you why ), I asked about their supercharger option in light of all of the discussion here. The very first question out of his mouth was "how many miles do you have on your car's engine." He said that 13k was fine, and I did not press him for more details, but my impression was that they would not recommend it for cars over a certain mileage. I do not know why . . .

It's a matter of trying to decide if I should commit to this car or not (wonder why I'm 34 and single??). I know I want FI. I've had the car all of 5 weeks and am wanting more power already. Guess it comes from years of riding modified sportbikes. The acceration is very addicting. Anyway, the car... I believe I want to stick to 2wd so the TT is not for me. Just need to decide if I should just drive this car for a year and trade up to an S then SC it or do the suspension, wheels, ... on this car then sc it. I had the a PPI done on the car. The mechanic said the compression was "great". What about main bearing life? This car has no record of a RMS failure, but it could have been hidden on the service records as "routine maintaince" or done during the clutch replacement.

I would talk to a couple of different installers about it. Call Akkurat and Ruf. See what they say and report back here, please!

Fatigue life of the main bearings, crank, rods, and rings I would imagine. An engine can blow at anytime FI or NA. Higher miles just increases the possibilty. I bought my car w/ no warrantee and pretty much went into it with the understanding that I could have another $10k go into it at anytime (new engine). The sale price was negotiated as much as possible to reflect the possibilty.

I've called all the local shops and none have any experience with SC'n a 996. I'm in New Orleans so I'd guess RUF is the closest (Dallas area, right?).

Guess I should add to this that I do not find 20-30 claimed HP worth the investment on modding a NA car. Even close to 50HP I don't think would be felt much on the streets. The cost of an all out "race" build on this engine would more than (or close) the cost of SC and with possible less reliability. ...see me talking myself into??? LOL

I actually think about it the way you do. If I ever did supercharge, I would have a mental "reserve" for engine replacement in case anything ever did go wrong. Having engine problems is not the end of the world provided you have planned ahead for that contingency. Also, just because you are in NO is no reason not to call Akkurat and other tuners. You never know, a cross country trip could be fun. TD in DC

You mean take more than a 4 day vacation (long weekend) for once? Is that possible??? LOL ...Turn around time would be an issue. Also warrantee work if there should be any problem. ..... always a possiblity with any major mod. Got me thinking though... ship the car off, fly in to pick it up, drive the new badness home... hmmmmmm.. ....visions of Cannonball run.... Plenty of time to decide though. Suspension and a few other details are first on the list. I like to build by toys mentally then proceed following my mental blueprint.

I'd give Akkurat a call, they've done about 5 SC installs I think.