Who wants over-the-top blown engine posts to stop?

With the influx of over-the-top posts, who would like to see them be gone?

don't respond to, or acknowledge them, and they will go away naturally.

Did your CAB arrive? Can't wait to see the pics!

I like the post about "wasting our valuable disk space" from a guy who wasn't even a Rennlist member. Like he should have a say? Also, there is an "ignore" list at https://rennlist.com/forums/profile.php?do=editlist so that you can turn off anybody you don't want to hear from. (Or simply stop reading / responding to their post - duh.) .

Wow REDCAB sounds like you really woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. Last time I checked, paid "membership" isn't a requirement. Unless, something changed, please let me know. So disk space is ONLY for paid members? If the hosters of this site require paid membership to be here then I will gladly pay. Why don't you do me a favor and get your facts straight. The forum is a place for many users to share information and help others. Check ALL my posts and then come back and let me know that I have not helped anybody out or gave advice that others were needing and I will pay for a membership AND yours! The worst type of derogatory comeback on this forum (for those with nothing resembling an IQ above 100) is the "why don't you join" crack. Please, get a life.

LVDell, I second your comments above. Redcabs last comment on the 40k repair list post about people leasing or spending their last dime etc. is so off base it makes me wonder.

Totally agree. I didn't say anything to that in the $40K thread since REDCAB has never said anything as assinine to me in the past until this thread and I figured most (as you have pointed out) would agree how pointless that post was. Once again, some people seem to type before they think Cheers, Dell

my cab isnt here yet, its on the boat, in the meantime, im taking delivery of a GT3 this friday! ahhh its going to be a good month.

I doubt if I will renew my membership next year since there are no benefits to me that are of any real use anymore. I use this site and support it by paying my dues because it used to be a great Forum for 996 owners but this Forum seems to be a real bitching ground unless all you have to say about your 996 is something nice about it. People have gotten too uptight for no reason just because some poor guy vents off about his blown up engines or all his RMS problems etc. Originally it used to be a forum to discuss the 996 marque good or bad. I joined because I thought it is supposed to be a focused Forum for owners of the marque or those that may be interested in it for some reason to discuss it, praise it or moan about it.....and "it" being the Porsche 996. But not to bitch at each other. I am seriously considering backing out of membership next year unless the rennlist board start to enforce some sort of posting rules or restrict non-paying members or have members restrict their posting to the focus of the group. I certainly don't think that non-paying members should have any say in what goes or does not go on this board. I also think that people should be able to come here and freely vent off their anger, problems, distaste at the marque just as much as people who come here and shout out how fantastic it is too. But I don't think that derogative, nasty or personal remarks made to individual users should be tolerated. That's my opinion. And since I am a paying member I am entitled to say it.

Berny, point well taken. However, I have to disagree with you on the "I am a paying member entitlement". The benefits of paid membership includes web space, email address, discounts on merchandise, membership card, etc, etc, etc. None of which I care to have. I refuse to pay to a "chat forum" that I do not take any goods from. Case in point, I have donated to Renntech.org since Loren has put together a site that I have recieved goods from (TSBs, DIYs, etc.). FYI...opinions are not an entitlement, they are earned. And I will say you have earned that right though in the time you have been here and everything you have contributed to the others on this forum. Thanks for all your input and insight. Cheers.

Since you're not a paying member you don't really have any room to complain about other member's posts, and you aren't just paying for webspace/email/merch/card when you become a member. Where do you draw the line between over-the-top and not over-the-top? If you blow one engine and come here to complain about it that's alright, but if you blow 2 or more then it's over-the-top and shouldn't be posted? Are you suggesting people who have had negative ownership experience and mistreatment from dealers to keep their mouth shut and pretend this type of stuff isn't going on? Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of this forum?

Scouser, I have no problem at all with someone putting posts out about problems with their car. I don't even have a problem with them putting a post out and then updating it when other things go wrong and ranting even more. What I don't like is when they make another post, and another... Having seen the orignal one I got to the point where I had said "OK...I'm not reading that one anymore". Then it shows up again under the guise of another thread or another poll! The problem is certainly not unique - every so often every board goes through this sort of stuff. For me...I'm saying "Bollocks" to it and signing off for a while until things go back to the normal. Oh yes, and as a non-paying member that's my right Barry

ZAMIRZ, so you rationale says that I ONLY have the right to complain about non-"members" posts then? If that is the case then I am doing exactly that. Another non-"member" with contributions (non-monetary) of zilch and a grand total of 2 threads and 31 posts (all pertaining to blown engines). Hmmmmmm, sounds like a great contributor to the forum. Please, do so searches first before you start acting like an insecure, I paid $17.95 to chat child and now feel entitled to type without thinking and use the "i paid" line. You must be watching the elction coverage right now since your prose is wreaking of strong arm politics and entitled elitism.

No, IMHO you don't have the right to criticize another non-paying member either. Congratulations on not getting past the 2nd line of my response, or do you just not have an answer to any of those questions? Keep the personal attacks coming, they're the only substance I see in your posts in this thread.

OMG, you guys are bi**hing about B*tc*ing. Internet is a free area to trade information and ideas and that is the point of these forums. Last time I checked, membership was optional and nobody should be forced to get it, this isn't a freaking **** site. Stop being so catty about everything, if someone complains about their car let them, etc. I said my peace. Bobby

Ok I need help on the American laws... you have one amendment for free speech... and another amendment on the right to remain silent...... so whats the problem - pick the one you like. the answers are simple... if you don't like a whiner don't feed him, if you want to shout use CAPITALS !! I'm with Chitownbob on this one: "bi**hing about B*tc*ing" is not nearly as entertaining as the "I've blown 8 engines in 8 weeks and somebody else must be responsible" type saga.

Classic!

Totally hit the nail on the head chitownbob..... My post was more of an example of (or shall I say an experiment) of just how many people will chime in with worthless crap. It amazes me how many really great threads get little to no attenetion and if they do they end up with stupid, worthless responses or better yet attacks. Case in point, it really is irritating to see somebody ask a simple question like "where is the best place to get 'x' " and is genuinely looking for advice from somebody who may have purchased 'x' lately and the same jokers consistenly chime in with 'try eBay'. Quite helpful don't you think? Another example, the new member (paid or not) has his first posts begin with total b*tch sessions and center around how worthless the P-Car is, and "I'll never own another one again". Last time I checked this was an enthusiast site not a picketing Porsche site. Berny (scouser) made a great point of just how downhill this forum has gone where it has evolved from a great chat forum to discuss P-Car to nothing more than a site hosting one b*tch session after another. Is that a site you want to contribute to? If I want that I can watch Springer or Montel.

Ha ha, I can't believe I just wasted 5 mins of my precious life reading this

LVDell, So how do you think this wonderful site that we all share stays afloat so that we can all benefit and b!tch on? If you choose to become a paid member, it's really not about what you receive physically like a card or shirt or whatever. It's about doing something small within our power to hopefully insure that Rennlist will continue to be up and running for many to enjoy.

adsc4s......one word-->"sponsors" if this site was strugling in any way, membership would be mandatory. I am willing to bet the site is doing just fine. Those that feel that the services provided to those paid members are worth the annual dues end up joining. Like I said I don't need all those ancillary extras. I will say it one more time. I have contributed to renntech.org since they provided goods I used. As well, the other sites I have visited (rennlist and 6speed) I make sure I do business with and use the sponsor links so that the site receives the compensation and/or continued support from that sponsor/vendors that way and help to keep the site up and running. Isn't that supporting the sites??? Not sure you have done all your homework before you made your argument.

Homework? I'm not sure you know what you are talking about. If you feel that because someone else is paying to support the site and that somehow exempts you from a small contribution BECAUSE you are not receiving any "goods", I can't help but believe you are a freeloader in real life. If you would have just said you don't feel like contributing, I would have respected your right.

I am not going to go round and round with you. But, did you not read my post? I specifically spelled out for you that I make sure that my purchases are from sponsor links to make sure the site is sponsored. Not sure how that constitutes not contributing. I have paid on more than several occasions a few extra bucks to a site sponsor(s) instead of going with an non-sponsor to make sure I support those that support the site. Please do me a favor though....leave your personal attacks at home and any comments non directly related to use in this forum. Calling me a freeloader in real life is out of line and uncalled for. You have no idea what I am like "in real life".

If you think that is a personal attack, you haven't visited the 993 or GT2 board.

Some people are just plain cheap. There is no point in arguing with them. They know they are and they have a hundred storiesand they feel no guilt in getting something for nothing. Many times they are nice people, it's just the way it is. I don't mean this as a personal attack, just a personal observation.

Cheap would be not giving ANYTHING that helps support the site. If you like, I can make sure I go out of my way to use only those vendors that offer a better price on goods/services that DO NOT contribute to the site? That is not the case though. What you have done is classified all those members of this site that are "non-paying" as cheap. I think you are heading down a slippery slope that you don't want to go down. Like I said, if paying was a requirement to be a part of this forum then I would glady contribute and I am sure most others would. But it is NOT a requirement.

You might like to think of the payment as a gratuity. Something like a tip in a restaurant where you get genuine good service. I'm grateful to those people as I'm grateful to the folks who run this site (some who are unpaid volunteers), since I have gained from it. As far as the slippery slope you mentioned, let me clarify. Yes, I think anyone who uses this site free over a period of time is cheap. Jeeze it's only about $20 a year - and they own Porches. C'mon........

Then we can just agree to disagree. Your analogy to being cheap is the same crack I got when I went to the first P-Car dealership that responded when I ask what kind of gas mileage does it get with "if you can afford to buy a Porsche you shouldn't have to ask". Stupid logic. Why do you think people with money have it? Not being foolish and spending when they feel it is appropriate. And don't give me this $20 a year crap. Obviously you are one of the ones that is caught up in "belonging" and "membership" which is evident by your signature. "Rennlist member" in your signature? Please, isn't it enough above your avitar? Identity issues my friend.

The mention of Rennlist Member in my avatar is to encourage folks like you to become members. Stick to your day job, psychology is not your strong suite. "Stupid logic. Why do you think people with money have it?". You're absolutely right, that is stupid logic.

You really don't get it do you! The site owners are not rich and I have news for you, the internet is not free... Maybe this thread will enlight you of what it takes to run this site: https://rennlist.com/forums/general-porsche-discussions-forum/165456-rennlist-founders.html Furthermore the knowledge that hopefully you have aquired here and it was offered for you FOR FREE might have and for sure will in the future save you THOUSANDS of $$$. Smart people make investments and your $20.00 that helps keep this site running , thus keeping the knowledge base enlarging, has an unmatched IRR. Finally to your thread, I find it obsured that you do not want to see the problems you could be faced with in the future ( remember your IRR) which could lead you to substancial savings in the future by applying the learnings of other people's experiences! If your engine grenades what are you going to do?

Different strokes for different blokes.....The reason I am a member here is, in part, because it is not required, whereas to even respond to a question on Loren's site you MUST be a member.......You are being cheap in more than a few posters eyes and your lame arguements to the contrary are disingenuous to boot. You sound like you think you are the smartest guy in the room.........

What amazes me here on this thread is the amount of personal attacks I am receiving for the simple fact of not being a paying member. This really is a joke. Those of you that have gone off on me (and indirectly) the others that are non paying members is quite commical if you think about it. Those of you that have posted dissent are really uptight and really appear to be offended that the owners of this site do not require paid membership. My quesiton to those of you is this. Why do you not attack like this to EVERYONE that doesn't have the magical "paid member" under their name in every thread and every post? It appears that it boils down to this. Those of you that are tightly wound have desired to chime in to something you disagree with and you only argument is "why don't you join?" or "I paid, why can't you?". Really sad isn't it that it has come to this. FYI....paid membership doesn't exist on Loren's site. ANYBODY can be on the forum and only a few specific places are for "members" only. Your signature on his site says "contributing" and not "paid" becasue it is volutary NOT required. Those that do not contribute still say member and still get the respect, help, and tech insight that ALL get! Of the 6 car discussion/tech forums I visit, this is the only one where people personally attack those that are not part of the "paid" club. As well, this is one of the only one that has paid membership as an option whereas the others just encourage use of the board sponsors.

Tedious, man................no one is convinced. Try yer political rant somewhere else........

Gretch ...you have just proved my point. Thanks for being so predictable

Yep, you are the smartest guy in the room..............no doubt.

And again.........

Paid members are probably insulted because you try to justify being a "freeloader". You did bring attention to yourself when asking paid and unpaid contributers to stop posting material. Let's close this post and start anew. I welcome your comments as a Porche owner and believe you are an asset to this forum, my .02.

Dell, no offence meant but I think the main issue here is that it is seen as being acceptable to "use" the board freely without being a paid up member (although I strongly support the notion to encourage paid up membership and that after a while using this site it seems fair to contribute to it by paying your dues anyway), but it's unacceptable to try to "direct" it it in anyway without first being a contributing member. For example, as a contributing member it is acceptable for me to suggest and/or ask the board (even if they refuse) to consider restricting posts or rewriting the rules so that posters only post threads that are on topic in this Forum and are not in any way disrepectful to others. But I would find it hard to accept such requests from none contributors. Especially in regards to requests such as yours in this thread as it is obviously aimed to be derogatory to the poor chap who has had a terrible lot of bad luck with his 996 blowing engines. While it may seem that his posts are derogatory to the marque, he has not been derogatory to others. And that is acceptable. I personally feel terribly sorry for this chap. His Porsche has blown up and he has had a rotten time with it. Then he comes here and gets a skinning from the online Porsche community just because he vented out his problems. Let's face it, that's totally unacceptable.

Torags and Berny....... Both excellent points. I totally understnad where you come from. Why the others can't see it that way is beyond me. I am not trying to justify being a "freeloader" just trying to explain how inappropriate it is to flame somebody for not being a paid member. This thread was not directed specifically at the poor guy how made a bad, unresearched purchase and has paid dearly (allegedly). Rather, it was aimed at the never ending stream of this type of post from individuals that are new to the forum and use it as a place to explain how much they hate Porsche, etc.. FYI.....I didn't ask people to stop posting (probalby should reword the title of the thread). Just wanted opinions as to what people felt about seeing this never ending stream of non-productive threads that usually amount to a total flame-fest. Personally I would like to see them end and get back to why this board WAS great--informative posts that help all......not b*tch sesssions. It is one thing to b*tch and another to illustrate a problem so others can benefit in the P-Car community. Case in point, Berny has illustrated his mutliple RMS problems wihtout FLAMING others and Porsche in the process as well people contribute to his thread with sincerity. Thanks for the honesty (as opposed to personal attacks like the others). Cheers, Dell

cannot really understand why you argue. it is free to decide if someone wants to pay or not. it is free as well, if someone want s to reply or not. there is no point trying to convince someone to pay if he has not already, and vice-versa. the same thing apllies to replies. no point to try to convince someone to reply, if he is not interested in replying.....and vice-versa again. just ignore if you are not interested , or join if you are

Dell, just want to make one point clear..... I have well and truly flamed Porsche and if I had the chance I would stick my boot up their royal a*se at the first opportunity. Oh, and BTW, it's OK in my books to flame just as long as it's not dergatory in nature. On my RMS issue.....my car is now laid up in my garage and has been for the last two weeks. It will be going in to a reputable independent on Dec 1st. The gerbox has finally died....120 miles after they put the 6th RMS in. It has the new type seal (apparently the 4th version) that is supposed to be more tolerable of play in the block bore. We'll have to wait and see....

Point taken.....I should have added "derogatory" to my clarification. Flaming is called for when stupidity runs rampant. But there is no place for derogartoy name calling. Excellent point.

Being the smartest guy in the room and all.......you sure need a lotta coaching on basic psychology.......you sure you are that smart? You are a fiesty, opinionated freeloader.......but I take it back.......you are definately not the smartest guy in the room........just one who likes to see his words on the screen...... You can see (that based on your poll), your premise was a good one, can you not? it is your delivery and hubris that got you kicked to the curb. To the "ignore poster" bin with you lad............

Why can't we just have peace in the valley ?

Gretch, I'll give you one chane to guess my profession. And then you will realize how far off base you are. FYI, you need to grab a dictionary and look up fiesty, opinionanted, AND freeloader. NONE of which apply here. You seem to be adapting the definitions of those words to "fit" your stance toward me. Rather, I am just trying to explain my position and wondering why you feel the need to continually attack.

BTW, to put this in perspective. I am called cheap constantly when I go shopping with my bride. Perversely, I take pride in that. Go figure...... :-)

totally understand....my wife says the same thing (unless of course there is some alternate motive )

With the recent election polls in mind, I could only hope that many of the polls in this forum, which are generally meaningless, would go away! Without establishing a "Poll", all you have to do is look at the number of replies compared to the number of views on a thread to get some idea of the general interest in the subject. In this regard, the threads that Bobporsche996 started, which LVDELL is apparently referring to, had a total of 118 replies against 5322 views, indicating that almost 98 percent of the people viewing the thread were not interested enough to post a reply or enter an argument. However the SUBJECT title interested a large number of registered users or members. On this thread, 34 replies against 1584 views shows LVDELL in the same league...almost 98 percent of the readers do not care enough to reply or enter what has become a side argument. Only a meager 65 votes were cast although 118 posted a reply. Since this is supposedly a Porsche information forum, I tried to find a past thread that had high common interest of a subject that should concern most of us...alas, there are none! Have to go to the OT Forum to generate "real" interest (???) where the "Hillary for Prez" related thread drew over 11 percent replies from "interested" viewers. Even the "5 Star" leader "Grid Girls" only drew a meager 1.6 percent willing to state their appreciation in writing, instead reinforcing the old adage that "a picture is worth a thousand (or more ) words". What conclusions can you draw from this? 1. Bobporsche 996 and LVDell are in the same popularity "canoe" by viewers interest. 2. In an open forum like this, paid or not, everyone can express their opinions. Viewers are free to participate by dialogue or "mouse out". 3. People appreciate pictures more than words. 4. Polls are currently "out" in American culture. 5. People who subscribe to this forum, have too much time on their hands. 6. Conclusion number 5 APPLIES TO ME! 7. There can never be a "conclusion" in an open dialogue society. Perry (42 Years of Porsche Ownership) :surrender:

perrys7342: Good in-depth analysis. I think the free speech debate is far more interesting than Bob's apocryphal engine escapades.

My simple minded analysis: This thread (and a few select others) are like collisions moved to the side of the road. Lots of people want to see it (# views), but few people want to stop to help (# replies). And even a few people drive by honking, cursing the collided people for messing up traffic.

If the guy from Seattle got this going, I can confirm his problem as real. We can say that it was a bad idea to buy a 996 from a Ford dealer and all the other poor choices that got him where he is. However, his story is correct. I was a Barrier yesterday to pick up some items and his car was there. It seems that another dealer when replacing the motor did not do something with a half shaft. The car then took a sh$t on I 5 while going back to Seattle. Parts went through the bell housing. I would expect the offending Porsche dealer (not Barrier) to square this with this guy.

thank you for finally backing up my situation.. Yes that white porsche carerra cab was mine.. didn't look to bad for $39,000 did it? (especially since I bought it almost a year ago at that price) I suppose, it was too good to be true though :I Yes, that is indeed what happened, and the dealership that installed the third engine did what you indicated, so they will be covering the cost of a brand new transmission free of charge. I won't be mentioning the dealership that did the work, since they have been extremely nice to me, and don't deserve the bad press (no it wasn't barrier). It was a mistake, and they are paying for all costs involved.. so they shouldn't be criticized for the mistake of one individual tech that made a mistake.. mistakes happen... life happens, **** happens, etc.. for all those that have called me a "bull****ter, a moron, a jackass, a dumbass, and various other terms for making up such a "ridiculous false story"... hopefully now all of you will be silenced and realize, what happened, happened... don't like it? well deal with it.. it happened.. no need to continue the thread though, what's happened happened... end of story... yes, that includes all my fellow 996 compadres that have essentially told me i'm full of it.. ... c4ssurgeon, hddude, fast1, andreas, ninetynine996, kolya, justanotherporsche, ptec, munro86, tom77, jetskied, beninlj, signal-9, adrian fuller, mffarrell, jetskied, lvdell, rr, palting, phil mccgrath, robert santangelo, mark wheeler, kerry, carbon_00, ajc8888, 86noh20, among many other fellow 996 compadres that have used various negative aspects of the english language, to basically call me a "dumbass moron" for making up such a "ridiculous" story... <g> having a respected and longtime rennlister... backup my story is appreciated... thanks roberga.. :> to those listed above, maybe from now on, when someone makes a post, if you don't believe it... keep it to yourself... you really don't know, so having someone that has just shelled out $33,500 in maintenance, in 1,000 miles of having a car with under 50,000 miles ($45,000+ in 1,100 miles if they didn't cover the transmission) is indeed within the realm of possibility in the world of the porsche 996... don't like it? buy a ford (hey atleast i can laugh at it too...) and for those that indicate I deserve the problems, because I bought it from a ford dealership.. why should that really have mattered? It was parked on the car dealers ford lot, while he also has an exotic lot that currently has a lamborghini gallardo, a ferrari 360 modena convertible, a couple porsche twin turbos, and many other exotics... maybe if the car was parked on that lot instead of on his ford lot, I wouldn't be having these problems according to the logic of it being my fault by purchasing it from their ford lot... <g>

Good luck Bob... You deserve it.....

thanks torags, I have a new 3rd engine with a 2 year warranty, a new transmission, and mechanically every single part seems to have been replaced, down to the flywheel.. and now a 3 year extended warranty on the vehicle... $37,000 later ($3k for the warranty), and 4 1/2 months total in the shop later i'm gonna give the porsche experience one more try... as much as I hate what i've been through, driving the car for the 1,000 miles I did own it, I can't deny.. I did catch the porsche bug along the way... will i buy be buying a porsche 997? absolutely not.. no... heh... not after what i've been through.. but since i've invested so much money, time, sweat, stress and anxiety over this vehicle.. i'm praying that this sucker that'll prolly be the end of me, now that's it's 90% covered will atleast let me drive it for a little bit of time during the summer months... it's hard to find any other vehicle that can match it's driving experience.. all i can do is cross my fingers, and pray that this vehicle will last the 2-3k miles i plan to drive it a year.. without blowing up on me again.. and if does, i do have the warranty... they say the third times a charm... (or engine in my case)

Man, that whole thread has to be a classic. A prime example of: 1. How NOT to buy a used Porsche. 2. How NOT to have it repaired. I kinda lost empathy after that, so I guess we can add: 3. How NOT to post in a car forum. bobporsche996, looks like you are finally on the right track. Sorry I tried to hijack your thread earlier with inane posts, but it was just getting to me. I'm still not sure you should keep the car, though. It's cursed. I'm serious. Who knows what other part that has not yet been replaced will go kablooie at the wrong moment? You may not believe what I'm going to say next given your experience, but part of the joy and exhilaration of driving a Porsche is the firm confidence that you can drive HARD and it will continue to give you long years of enjoyment with little maintenance. I seriously track my car, and have had no issues other than 4 sets of used up tires, gallons of gas, a set of brake pads and rotors, 2 worn out cats, and a worn out left front bearing from taking right handers too hot. Any other exotic would probably be dead by now. I feel like you have to drop a bomb on the car to kill the Porsche. Sell that cursed car. It may LOOk like Porsche, but it is NOT a Porsche, given your experience. Then buy whatever you want. You are not getting the full Porsche experience if you have to keep worrying it will break down.

Good luck with your car Bob. You deserve to have a break. I think John D or the likes of Viken would have long deleted the thread if it was felt to be misinformative and I didn't see them do that. Threads which suggest potentially huge problems with our pride and joy we paid good money for are clearly unpleasant to see, however, they are just as important as the positive aspects of Porsche ownership no matter how rare they may be. Harry

Palting... It's difficult for me, due to the situation i'm in. Every single major part on the vehicle is brand new. Brand new engine, brand new transmission, brand new flywheel, brand new starter, brand new clutch, brand new this, that, etc.. it's basically a car with brand new parts, all that have a 2 year covered warranty.. the car has every single option, $25k in dealer options.. $95k MSRP) and I've invested $15,000 in upgrading the vehicle with body work, wheels, suspension etc.. and now I have an extended warranty for the next 3 years... I know it's the car from hell.. no I don't trust it.. yes I know it will break down again.. but considering i will only be driving it for 2,000 to 3,000 miles a year.. (I have 3 other primary vehicles), i'm just crossing my fingers it'll last me another couple years as a toy... then most likely it'll be replaced with a nice used 2003 sl500 sport as a convertible toy... i'm sorry, but my opinion, is compared to the 993 and other classic porsches, as time continues, the 996 is simply going to be disposable.. I kind of look at it, like a lotus esprit.. fun to have.. but be prepared for what can happen, come high mileage and high water... unless porsche does something about it, used car owners will not put up with having to pay $15,000 for this, and $12,000 for that everytime something goes wrong... most extended warranty companies won't cover ths car as it is.. as the years go by, have a feeling, most nobody will cover extended warranties for them... notice in my post, that only about 10% of 996 owners indicate they have over 50,000 miles on their vehicle... when these cars start approaching 75,000+ miles with the original engine, tranny, etc..... honestly, I think most would agree, i'd be afraid to even drive it, unless I had the pocket change to cover the potential disaster waiting to happen.. as it adds up fast.. if I had to cover every part that went wrong, at retail cost, at an authorized porsche dealer, it would have costed me over $65,000 in maintenance costs in under 1000 miles... Yes $65,000 in under 1,000 miles of driving.... (The $33.5k I paid is at dealer cost for parts and minimum hourly rate for labor) if I had paid full price for brand new parts from the local porsche service center with their parts costs and labor... what kind of person that buys a a used car for $25,000 is going to put up with that potential risk? ..and would anyone even consider owning a 996 with over 100,000 miles with the original engine, original transmission, etc.. as the years go by, and some of these vehicles retain this high mileage.. (when they are $12,000+ to $17,000+) to replace? any of you? i'd think many of these 996s will simply become parts cars.. if they are now selling for low 30s... the parts cost will soon become more valuable than the vehicles as the years continue., due to how many porsche owners have to replace certain parts, and how expensive new parts are... I don't see this for the 993... or other classic porsches... porsche has been completely negligent in addressing any issues with the 996... simply raising costs for the replacement parts as the years continue... which makes no sense to me... if they expect to keep the owners of them happy... and just enjoying the huge profits they have been making.. it seems to really could care less about the 996 owners, when they are making more money than they ever have... hopefully it's posts like mine, (that i'm sure someone at porsche is reading) that will get porsche off their ***, and realize, if they expect to retain customers in the distant future, they need to step up to the plate and admit or replace the faults of the 996, or atleast discount them to dealer cost.. instead of playing the "we don't have any idea what you're talking about, the 996 is a perfectly engineered automobile" game.. of course this is simply my opinion, and anyone and everyone is entitled to disagree or agree... of course i'm a bit biased, due to my experience <g> I've just done quite a bit of research through various forums and tech articles, and have come to the consensus that my case isn't completely rare... these expensive costs can happen, they just usually happen over a longer time period, not within 1000 miles... when one dealer in the UK has 22 blown 996 engines, according to a pic in the 911uk.com forum in the back waiting to be picked up by porsche... that should tell you something... porsche has lost me as a future customer, most likely forever, and I'm still very young... and i'm sure they will continue to lose many more customers, that got their first porsche as the 996, when they run into the problems, of having to shell out $15,000 for a replacement engine that wasn't their fault, and an engineer defect as well.. or something similar... I do love my porsche, but will not be owning another one, or even consider purchasing another one, until porsche gets their act together once again and care about customer loyalty... they got greedy as soon as they started to make a profit, and realized that customer loyalty wasn't important anymore... due to how many people were buying up boxsters and 996s, cayennes, etc.. and gave up on the reputation these cars once had in my opinion... all in the cause of corporate success... no need to make customers happy anymore... they make more money than ever before, why go back to a model that wasn't cost efficient? being a business man, i can understand the mindset of the executives... it's just upsetting, that's all... I find it quite ironic, that mint condition 80s models of these cars with the same mileage are now going for more $$$ than mint condition versions of the 996... that are 20 years older... that has to tell you something... here's a question for you all... if you made $35,000 a year, had a family and two kids.. and were able to buy a 1999 porsche 996 with 95,000 miles on it's original engine, original transmission, and most all original parts for $10,000 with no warranty (as no extended warranty company would ever offer a warranty on this)... as your primary vehicle for 10,000 to 15,000 miles a year of driving... would you buy it? In a few years.. many potential new porsche owners that could never have afforded one before, will be faced with this situation... would you recommend your parents, your friends, or anyone you care about to buy it at $10,000, or how about even if it was $5,000? (when an engine replacement costs $15,000+, a new transmission with labor $12,000+, etc.. etc..) something to think about it for the future of the 996...

With 996 values taking a severe beating lately I suspect that current owners do not like to see this kind of negative press out there for all to see. This may explain some of the responses you had. Incidently I was in my mechanics shop recently and he had a 99 996 with a whacked motor. looks like it chucked a rod. I am now reconsidering my next car, it was either going to be a 996 or a 930.

that what's happened to my first motor.. it chucked a rod right out of the block... the second one had a cylinder come out of it's sleeve lining and a leaky head gasket at 9,000 miles... i'm sorry... regardless of what anyone says... I just can't see the future of the 996 within the next few years as one very bright... and porsche paying for it in the press and in sales... it's just a matter of time... once again, simply my own personal opinion... the 993 c4s and twin turbo will always remain a perfect classic in my book...

"it's just a matter of time" "simply my own personal opinion..." Have you had a lobotomy? This baseless extrapolation of yours is simply arrant nonsense. What are you trying to achieve in continually trotting this stupid generalisation? YOU purchased a dud and you want all of us to cry "Oh poor Bob have you heard what happened to him" But how do you respond? By pathetically spewing forth petulant bile about 996's when when the real twit is you Bob. P.S. Comparing someone who denies the death of six million Jews to someone who questions a story about a motor vehicle is NOT THE SAME.

anyone know a good psychiatrist? I think we are have someone on this board with some anger issues that requires immediate mental assistance.

Yep lobotomy for sure. Talking to yourself is the first telltale symptom.

This is weird. Anyone who has been following my posts on this and other forums will agree that bobporsche has just echoed or duplicated exactly what I have also written. This is just the start of it for Porsche. As this 996 matures the real problems will come to light. But you guys better believe it, like it not, but believe it, 996 engines are grenading more often than you would like to think. And if they aren't blowing up then they are requiring replacement due to faulty manufacture of the RMS. Below is a picture I took two weeks ago at the back of my OPC when I picked my car up from its 6th RMS! Note that there are at east two other OPCs I know of here in the UK with a bunch of blown engines out the back like this. I also know of 2 two people with 996's with blown engines. Then there's all these postings we read. Even the mags are now discussing 996 engines blowing up ...... and the RMS problem. Tool Pants has even told us several times of his friends Porsche that is on it's 4th engine. What more evidence do you want. Then take my 996. Had it since it was about 650 miles old (I call that prety much new). Its got a knackered engine block that uses up seals like cigarettes. It's laid up in my garage awaiting major rebuild of my gearbox (or replacement). And it's only done 40,000 miles and serviced by the book. I am living evidence of bobporsche's statement. Face it munro86, the real twist is this marque. Your'e just sick of Bob venting off. He's got your back up 'cos you don't want to read what he says. There's no phsycotic issue here just an extremely injured Porsche owner with a lot of steam to vent....and a lot of it is because of comments that you have thrown out at him. I just hope you don't have half the problems he's had come your way. But if/when they do, you bet you will be here venting off just the same. (Pic below: 3 blown engines sitting in the rain)

I think what it all comes down to, is that, yes I am upset about my vehicle.. considering if I had brought my car to an authorized dealer and paid full price and would have had to replace everything that has gone wrong in my car with brand new parts at porsche retail price (keep in mind I paid dealer cost for all my parts), it would have costed me over $65,000 with under 1,000 miles of driving.. The chances of this happening to a porsche 996 owner? Very very rare. The chances of it happening over a log time period, or an older aged 996 with high mileage, very rare. The chances of potentially either a blown engine, a blown transmission, gearbox, flywheel, etc.. upon many other parts and labor ranging in the $10,000+ mark, potentially viable... I think it would be safe to say, that anyone that owns a 996 out of warranty, (or even with an extended warranty company, as many of them will wiggle there way out of having to pay for such an expensive replacement, depending on the company) it would be best advised to have $15,000 to $20,000 in emergency funds readily available in the case of such a viable potential mechnical breakdown. One must understand and realize, these are not wear and tear replacement parts, that give any sign of them going out. You can't simply, realize the engine might be going bad, and then sell it as soon as possible, or realize the transmission going bad and sell it to a new owner before it happens... these parts, simply implode, explode, etc... with no check engine light, no cautionary sign of this.. or anything.. it's pretty much russian roulette when driving the vehicle... While my story has indeed been a nightmare and is rare, I cannot help but feel sorry for the countless 996 owners in the future... that will end up picking these cars for $20-$25k with every last dime they have... and finance themselves to the breaking point to afford one, and then have a $15,000 repair bill a few months later, with nothing they can do about it... (keep in mind insurance companies won't cover these mechanical nightmares) I'm very fortunate I have been able to financially cover the costs incurred with my vehicle... and as upset as I have been about it, I am able to continue my life, without having it devastated by the nightmare encounter I have been through.. but many, cannot... and especially all these individuals that are now buying up these 99s and 00s with 60k miles, 70k miles, etc.. at bargain basemenet prices, with no knowledge of the potential risk of what can happen to them... I went to the Seattle auto show last night and a porsche rep was there... I explained what happened to my 996, and he told me.. "You should buy a new 997 then, all the kinks and minor problems have been fixed... it's a whole new car. Aren't they gorgeous?" I just walked away in disgust... the 997 is a 996 with smoother lines, plain and simple.. made to look more refinded, but mechnically, the same... As a test, after going through all I went through, I called up 1-800-POR-SCHE, the Porsche North America customer service hot line, and explained to 3 different reps what I had encountered. The response from all of them? Silence. No assistance, no help, no sympathy, no care, or admitting to any of the problems I mentioned to them that had occurred to me. I then asked if after going through what I have gone through, that if there was a supervisor or anyone, that would atleast offer me a discount on parts or labor in the future through an authorized porsche dealer. Absolutely not, said in 3 different ways, (nicely of course, but absolutely not, none the less) I feel it's very fair to assume that all these reps have been trained to keep silent and play dumb to all of these allegations, and to essentially make it appear as though it's the owner at fault. They are absolutely, 100% completely useless if you're car is out of warranty. Porsche North America customer service, might as well not exist as far as I'm concerned. All they tell you is, "bring it to your local Porsche authorized dealer, and pay full price, and pay up sucker..." essentially... As said previously, and I don't think anyone on this forum can disagree with me that the porsche is an excellent driving automobile, with a driving experience unlike anyother. With a fun factor at 10. Also one must notice, all of these reviews on the porsche 996 from automobile magazines, are from editors that do not actually own these vehicles (as they always seem to end their stories, with statements, such as "I wish I could afford a 996..." or something along those lines.. they simply are able to test drive new models of them, and have no vested financial interest in them, so the driving experience is just as pleasurable as it is for all of us that love our vehicles. They don't have to deal with any money out of pocket for these cars, and would never say anything to ruin the millions of dollars in advertising porsche throws their way to indicate such problems that exist within these vehicles.. The gripe I have, is the fact that these cars, especially as they age, much of the time will not hold up to similar newer german cars with the identical mileage.. and with the costs of replacement parts going up dramatically yearly... when they lower down to $20,000 to $25,000 in a couple years.. and a new engine replacement costs $17,000, or a new transmission costs $15,000, etc... what realistically will the value of these vehicles be once a problem goes wrong? Personally, I'd think a smart investment at this time, really would be a 986 & 996 porsche salvage yard... as the years continue, with all the vehicles sold needing so many parts, and many owners of these used older models not being able to afford replacement new parts... i'm sure such a business, would make a fortune... Who knows what will happen within the next few years for these 99, and 00 porsches... I still have my 1996 bmw 750il with 150,000 miles, and I love it.. drives like a dream... every day, I see hundreds of early to mid nineties, bmws, mercedes, etc... with extremely high mileage, into the 100k mark... 98% on their original engine, original transmission, etc... The one aspect of the 996 that porsche brought to the table was that the 996, was now a primary driver vehicle. It is no longer a second or third car for people, and many people listened. Many young individuals just coming out of college, and many other middle class income individuals, with house payments, a family, etc.. having $20-$30k to spend on a car, will be very tempted at picking up their dream of a $25-$30k porsche 996 now that it's in their price range... and have been told by all the auto magazines, porsche, etc.. that it is very driver friendly and can be driven as a primary vehicle now.. one can't help but feel sorry for them, if they walk into the situation not knowing the possibility of what can happen to their vehicle.. buying a 99 or 00 with high mileage... oblivious to what could potentially happen... After all in the year 2004, 60k to 70k miles on a car is nothing.. Most german car owners realize their cars are good upto 150,000 miles or so, before things start to go wrong... it's only forums like this, that such new owners will be able to find any such advice or assistance from anyone regarding the potential issues they may run into.. All I have to say is, although you all may have your own personal opinions on me and my posts. If a family member or a close friend came up to you and said "hey, look I found a 99 996 with 75k miles for only $32,000, i'm thinking about buying it, now that it's in my price range." Would you honestly recommend they do so? The fact is, I can almost rest assured that someone at porsche is reading these forums, although they will never speak up or post messages, as they would never want to put themselves in a legal disadvantage or the potential of bad press, upon many other such factors, that such a post can cause to the porsche marque. If anything, it's a hope that messages like mine, will make porsche get off their ***, and stop glumming in profits, and actually give more than a crap for the individuals that have purchased their vehicles, that continue to fail. They still refuse to acknowledge the RMS leak is their fault, and about 1 out of 3 owners have had this happen. Can you name any other car ever made, that such a high number of problems has ocurred, that a car company has not acknowledged as being a fault made by their engineering? If they won't admit to even the RMS problem, one must question what else are they hiding that they won't admit. When I called porsche to check the status of how many 996 engines were available for my 1999, the parts manager indicated that porsche currently has hundreds of 996 rebuilt porsche engines available in the US ready for replacement for 1999 alone. What does that tell you? Hundreds of 1999 porsche rebuilt engines = hundreds of 1999 996 engines that have gone bad, that have been rebuilt (not counting the hundreds that have been unrebuildable because of damage to the core, such as my first engine blow up, when the rod threw out the core and the thousands and thousands that have already been replaced.).. So if porsche has these many available right now for the 1999 model... How many from 2000, 2001, etc..? This isn't counting the rebuilt engines in europe or any other country... but logically, this comes upto 1000s of porsche 996 rebuilt engines currently available all over the world.. not including the thousand upon thousands of rebuilds already sold in in current running 996 vehicles... what does that tell you? And anyone that says i'm bitter at what happened to me.. Yes, I am.. but i'm recovering and learning from it all.. I've done alot of research on it, and read thousands of posts on forums all over the world, to be met with similar encounters... the main difference in my problem is, I encountered over $65,000 in retail maintenance costs with less than 1,000 miles of driving. Of course, I refused to pay full retail on parts and labor, and received it at half that cost thanks to certain people I know... (if I had paid full retail for brand new parts and brought my car to an authorized porsche dealer everytime, and if they didn't cover the cost of the new transmission) That is VERY rare, and I haven't heard of a story like mine from 1000 miles of driving. Regardless, as backed up by fellow rennlister Robertga, this did indeed happen, as he saw my car and confirmed it at barrier porsche with the service manager... For all potential 996 owners doing research on buying a 996, for current 996 owners on warranty, out of warranty, etc.. take these posts as you wish... ignore them, delete them, don't pay attention to them.. call me a lying jackass, (as many have already voiced as their opinion of me) it's really your choice.. all I can do is summarize what i've experienced, what i've seen, what i've encountered, and the treatment i've had from porsche north america from this nightmare experience.... live and learn, and take it as you will... i wish the best of luck to all of you, and am thrilled to see all the members really enjoying their cars that haven't had serious mechnical problems... (or mechnical problems covered by warranty) What concerns me, and upsets me, is as these cars lower in value, what will happen, with the naive buyers out there, that will be sucked into these low priced 99s and 00s with high mileage at bargain basement prices, without any knowledge of what can and most likely, will... potentially happen to them...

Bob, I give you props for being able to sustain the train of thought requried to type up that last post. As a fact check, I would (as others would) like to know where you get you 1 in 3 RMS failure numbers from? By the way, have you ever posted a pic of this beauty? I would love to see it. Obviously the problems were on the "inside" and I am sure most would like to see the "outside" since you stated how beautiful it was. Let me say this, if all this has sincerely happened to you, you have my sypathies and I apologize (although I never attacked your validity just the nature of the post so early in your rennlist career). I wouldn't wish these problems on anybody. I just hope that you can find a way to love porsche the way so many of us do which is evident by the extreme partisan comments you have received here in the forum (as have I). Here's to many enjoyable miles in the future

I can't even hold my train of thought for more than iksvvbhzcb zlcvbxzc;lbmc jbxjckibkxcb

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/roflmao.gif

Good luck. I asked for pics the day this all started...I'm looking forward to seeing a fire started by coolant

Carbon_00, I just love your exquisite timing.lol. P.S. May I say to anyone that gives a toss,I've never queried the repairs Bob has had done just the inferences he has constructed and the facts(?) he has embellished to create this whole rambling scenario about this lovely car, the Porsche 996.The thing that has angered me is his and scouser's insistence that the porblem with the 996 is GREATER then these sad, but ultimately RELATIVELY STATISTICALLY MINOR occurences suggest. By trying to give the rest of us the Hee Bee Gee Bee's just smacks of sour grapes. That's the nub of it for me, not a litany of repairs and impossible coolant fires and fire trucks just around the corner etc etc etc. However, Bob just doesn't seem to get it. On and On the same lines are trotted out about the repairs-so what Bob? I agree about them, it's your wider agenda about spooking this Porsche fraternity that gives me the *****'s. If you would only stop this incessant line I would hold you in much greater esteem than is presently the case.

Nah, it's mutilple engine replacements and ridiculous repair costs that give the *******. There's a limit to how often you can wave the pom-poms. Anyone in this "Porsche fraternity" that doesn't empathize with Bob is in denial. It's OK to be enthusiastic about P-cars but please, don't be drinking Porsche Kool-Aid in Guyana.

While none of us on this forum, or any individual dealer or dealer group knows the exact statistics on the recurrent significant design and production failures of the 996 series within the warranty period, you can be sure Porsche AG does. Porsche AG's actions clearly indicate that based on their actuarial engine life expectancy studies, it is in the company's interest to "bandaid" problems on the 996 rather than make more costly (to the company) engineering and production changes during their "exposure" warranty period. It's simply a matter of business economics...as long as the "public outcry" (called customer "regret") producing a measurable effect on sales does not exceed the expected "bandaid" approach of seal replacement, rebuilt engine replacement, and ancillary damage (transmissions, coolant tanks, etc). In the end result, the expected failure frequency and repair costs during warranty govern the current approach and if the 996 series depreciates beyond customer expectation, the "PR Approach" can always indicate that the new generation (997 et al) has corrected these relatively "minor" problems. Porsche has become the most "Insular" automobile company that I have seen during my 42 years of Porsche ownership, prior years in the automobile business, and personal ownership experience of other domestic and foreign automobiles (GM, Ford, MB, BMW, Mazda, etc). If you attempt to contact them directly, you'll be met by a barrier that make the old "Berlin Wall" look like a children's "Lego" toy set. I'm sure there is a multiple syllable German (or forthcoming "Delhi") Customer Service term for combined "Ignorance and Arrogance" which characterizes this behavioral approach! They simply refer callers to their local dealer, whose knowledge and consistent quality varies greatly...and whom Porsche keeps relatively well segregated from collective group knowledge and action (I'll refer you to the attempts to reform the dealer/distributor/Porsche NA business setup in the 1980's and early 90's). If you want a lesson in what a responsive production engineering facility does in a "online" emergency, visit a major Beer Bottling Plant! As a graduate nuclear engineering student several decades ago, we used to extensively study and prepare Nuclear Reactor Shutdown Plans but the "Beer Bottlers" facility made those look like pure academic exercises by comparison. Oddly enough, the visit to the Beer Bottler facility was a side trip during a Porsche Club of America Parade twenty years ago! Sadly, Porsche AG needs to take a hard look in the mirror and try to understand what the term "Customer Commitment" really means. It is not the bureaucratic mentality characterized by "lack of the appropriate rubber stamp" that helped doom some German forces attempting to break out of encirclement at Stalingrad over 60 years ago ("Wakeup Call")" Whether it is an unknown relatively "few" in terms of the 996 ownership or widespread approaching an epidemic, Porsche AG owes the generally enthusiastic ownership body ("newbies" or "long termers") more in purchase of these expensive appliances. Perry (42 Years of Porsche Ownership and currently a Cyber Resident of "Oberbabelberg")

Too much free time is a bad thing.

but spending over $33k in 1,000 miles on a piece of metal with four wheels that broke down due to no fault of your own with four wheels is a good thing?

Bobporsche, you feeling okay? Only a one sentence response.....

If Bobporsche996's posted experience saves on overenthusiastic but underresearched "newbie" from falling into the same myth of "made in the Black Forest by Elves" excellence of "all" Porsche automobiles, isn't it worth our collective (time on our hands) time? While it certainly isn't each and very Porsche owners Buyers Experience, can't we tolerate a "3 Sigma" posting? (for those of us who still believe RMS is "Root Mean Square" and a Kronecker Delta will remain our private and unused Avatar!) Perry (42 Years of Porsche Ownership and continued wonder at Cyber-Ethics 101)

An excellent articulate prognosis, great post.......

Hi, newbie here, I would like to thank Bob for his warnings and for the counter posts. I remember the print ads that used to say the best way to buy a Porsche was to buy a used one, or the current Boxster ad, its only a $1 a mile for the first 43K miles. So I was looking to buy a 40 to 50K used 996, my first Porsche. Of three 99 vintage that I did look at, all had their engines replaced. One Porsche dealer said it was specific to the year, just a few bad apples so to speak. Well a bit more research onto this web site and reading (sorry if this is a repost) EurCar's experience with their 03 996 http://www.europeancarweb.com/longte...ec_porsche911/ "What's the deal, then? Is there a common motor malady. Like our previous 996, this one performed flawlessly, right up until it suffered a catastrophic failure within the engine. The crew at McKenna Porsche, where we've had many of our long-termers serviced or fixed, was equally mystified. "We don't know what's going on with the internals," said another Porsche dealer's service manager. "They told us not to open the engine, just replace the entire thing. We've got a bunch of new crate motors on hand to deal with this problem." While this is a warranty fix, it won't be 5 years from now, and at 20k a pop, 3.6-liter Porsche engines aren't cheap. " I have to agree that w/o an extended warranty it would have to be a hell of a deal for me to want to buy a used 996. I am more inclined to wait for the Boxster coupe and get a factory warranty.

All 3 of the 996s at 40k to 50k had replacement engines? wow, even I didn't think the problem was that major.. Did you talk to the owners, or how did you know this? I'd think 1 in 3, but 3 in 3... even I have a hard time believing that.. (of all people) Notice how in the article it indicates: And now the bad. Yet again, we lost an engine in a long-term 911. Abuse, you say? Not a chance. Editor Brown has spent most time in the car and has babied it to the point of nausea, and he cautions everyone else who drives it "not to screw it up!" Notice the "Yet again" part. Apparently, a previous 996 they were test driving had blown an engine as well... Now that the prices of porsches are in the mid 30s, it's just a matter of a year or two before 70k to 80k mileaged 99s without warranties start popping up everywhere for mid 20s... and many kids fresh out of college, or lower income individuals, will become devastated at the potential nightmare happening to them.. unless one is a member of online forums, 95% of potential 996 owners are probably not aware of the faults of this excellent driving machine that every young kid, including me has always aspired to own.. (unfortunately that's all I can give it, due to porsches attitude and secrecy towards the mecahnical aspect of the 996, 997, time will tell...) Many of us are fortunate to be able to afford a $15-$17,000 engine replacement, but you can't help but feel sorry for the new owners of these cars come a couple of years, and high mileage... driving a ticking time bomb... how would you feel if you just graduated college and were able to finance a $25,000 996, and the engine blew up and costed you $17,000 cash to fix? (most college graduates do not have $17k of credit, and after financing a 996, no bank would give them a dime more) Or having to tell your wife this has happened, after you overextended your credit as it was, to afford the car of your dreams... can we say divorce? :> these low prices are not a good thing.. they are enticing buyers that don't have the funds to cover such a mechanical breakdown.. hell, if I was in the market for a relatively new european sports car with 50k miles, shelling out $25k on a 996, would be a dream come true... of course, now no longer being a naive 996 owner, which I used to be, before spending way too much time on research on forums, magazine articles, and my own personal experience, I now know better.. I used to think that a 99 german assumed "Bulletproof" vehicle with the porsche marque would last forever without any problems at 49k miles... little did I know what I was in for... ..and porsche could give less than a crap about the situation.. their 1-800-POR-SCHE customer service number, might as well be 1-900-PAY-UP!!.. I guess we'll just have to see what the next few years bring for the lower income individuals with 99 and 00s out of warranty that start experiencing engine failures... and see what happens... and how they take out their anger :> personally, as soon as my engine warranty expires in two years for my 3rd engine, this car is being SOLD... no thank you 996, or 997 until porsche gets their act together and starts giving a sh*t about their owners and marque like they once did... they just cover it all up.... and hope the problems will go away... and if anyone feels i'm ranting, deal with it.. with what I went through, I damn well deserve to say what I want.. any if anyone doesn't like it... simply don't read any of my posts...

Well, when I looked at the first one, it was over a year ago, and the Porsche dealer said it was no big deal, brand new engine. Alarm bells go off, I paused and read forums. The last one was going for 35K, but it too had a replaced engine. btw, yes European Car Mag had another 911 with a blown engine: http://www.europeancarweb.com/longte...porscheupdate/ I come from a VW background, with my 16V GTI engine getting well over 150K miles. I totally agree kids will jump on these once they get into the 20's. But kids are also MUCH better informed by forums like this. You are right, kids see Porsches like 944 as a car that with the right TLC can be kept going and going. For a fun forum look at vwvortex.com's car forum. As I see it, its one thing if an engine blows from neglect, i.e., not changing oil or not replacing a radiator that is leaking, but for it to grenade unprovoked or to eat multiple RMS is a no go for me. The other thing hurting resale values, although they are in a diff class refinement and reputation wise from a 996, is the STI and EVO. Close in performance #'s, but you can get a brand new one for 30K with a factory warranty. (although Mitsubishi, like Porsche did with their 1st gen ceramic brakes, is starting to balk at their warranty claims if the car has been tracked) Or an R32 for a great all around fun car. Plus kids like to modify for more HP and all of these cars allow them to do that. From my perspective, I am either going to get a Lotus Elise or wait for the Boxster coupe, either of which will be a blast to drive, although the latter only because it would have a factory warranty.

"And lo when they had heard of his great sayings, they came unto the one known throughout the land as "Bobenginetrannycoolantfire" from the dark forest of Fordamland. "What is it you want? he bellowed " Is it a yearning for truth ye seek"? "Yes oh great King Bob, we have heard of your amazing powers of reasoning and perception, legendary tales of how you repelled that great Satan Por-sha by blasting him with the green water god, Kermitten. We fear that he will seek us out and destroy us and all that we covet." "Go ye on your way, nothing shall befall you, but watch, be ye mindful of my sore travails which I ..er I mean the Great Satan Por-sha has wrought upon me. Be ever wary of Kermitten for he may also turn against you and spew forth his deadly juice.However, do not fear I will be ever present to extinguish any conflagration that may come, just call and I will be only moments away.For I have endless treasures of gold to spend on repairs..er to reward my diligent servants if only they are convinced of the truth I speak."Any they went on their way amazed at what they had heard believing they had spoken to a truly wise one.And as the years passed the memory of "Bobenginetrannycoolantfire" from the dark forest of Fordamland faded . The great tumult they had feared had not come upon them. And they praised him for they had been blessed with a peacefulness. "He was very wise" they remembered, and they longed to hear his words of truth once more.

munro, although this ranks right up there in terms of lunacy with your holocaust posts, shoot the dog, and other such quotes of extreme showing of complete sanity and intelligence, this one takes the cake in terms of entertainment value.. btw: it's nice to see you finally bow down and agree with me

Holy sh**t can't this post end of it's own weight????

I have no idea what to make of that biblical heresy but ROFLMA!

That rant alone is worth the price of reading through this thread, start to finish....THAT.....is......... FRIGGIN........... FUNNY, man!!!!!!!

I feel a haiku coming on... someone... anyone... stop me...

Why stop now??? Keep it coming!

Thanks Munro96 for bringing lightness to this very tedious thread. And Moogle was on the right track from the first set of replies, if you don't have anything constructive or helpful to say just move on... I just hope that all this toxic back-and-forth exchanges are not a sign that people are getting bored and tired of their 996's... Wouldn't you rather vent on a windy backroad in your 911, than adding more junk to this thread... Cheers.

I used to visit a lot, but this thread reminds me why I stopped coming around very much. Too much damn bitching and too little car talk. Unfortunately that means I miss out on the good stuff that's still discussed here. There's a lot of good members here (paying or non-paying, who cares!), but too many people that just like to complain about nothing. I was debating paying for a membership until this board deteriorated to where it is today.