Why do idiots always have to park so close to my Pcar in a parking lot?

I am always very careful and look for an end spot so that I only need to worry about one side. I then proceed to park as close to the curb side of the spot to maximize distance between me and the next spot. Anyway, never fails, someone will park next to me and still crowd my spot by parking almost on the line of my spot!!! I am not an **** person, I just want to keep my Pcar free of door dings. Any suggestions? It is not always possible to park way out away from all the other cars.

Take a shopping cart and put it in the spot next to you, even better is to turn it upside down...... most of the time people are lazy and won't get out of the car to move it... end result they park elseware... This only works in a parking lot where there are other spots to park.

Unfortunately, I travel alot and this happens at hotels. No shopping carts to be found. The part that upsets me the most is that I think most do it on purpose. It is like they think "I cant afford a Pcar, so I am going to ruin it for this guy". That is just the way I feel when I see it happen time and time again.

I parked at the end of the lot on Saturday and went in to get the groceries. The nearest car was probably 15 spots away. I come out 20mins later and two POS are parked on either side of me! I think most people park next to the p-cars to get a better look at it and they figure you won't ding their POS when you open your doors!

Get a beater and don't worry about it. Otherwise, plan on spending $200 every couple of years to remove dings. If you park in hotels, use a thick car cover to absorb any impact.

A number of years ago, I ordered magnetic, styrofoam strips to run the width of the doors of my Porsche, under the car cover, for those extended periods when I left the car in my airline employee parking lot. Seemed like a great idea at the time .... but my car was a 928, and all aluminum. Held them up to my doors, and they fell straight to the ground. I called to ask if I could send them back. Before I could explain, the guy said, "928 .... right"?

Not totally dissimilar to cars, motorcyclists have a problem whereby some people will actually 'sit' on our bikes to 'feel' them out. Can you even believe this insanity? FWIW, I have gone ballistic once when I witnessed this, as many Pcar drivers would be upset in catching a door-dinger in the act. Anyhow, I once saw a message stiched into the seat of a Harley Davidson to try and minimize this type of egregious behavior. It read, "Do you believe in life after death? Touch this bike and find out." Perhaps a similar sign could printed out on clear vinyl (like the material used for racing numbers) to ward off potential dingers....

Same here in Japan. I cannot understand what this silver owner is thinking to park so close to my car.

Think twice about placing a shopping cart next to your vehicle. It might work, but I've also seen lazy-*** drivers simply nudge them out of the way with their bumpers, usually directly into the adjacent car. (Yes, I ran over and snatched it out of the way before it could do damage). It could be just a South Florida thing. Parking waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out there seems to be the only solution, and, as a happy bonus, all the exercise you'll get walking means you'll outlive the lazy-*** drivers.

This is personal pet peeve of mine. Even when you park way out in the back 40 some *** finds a reason to park two inches from your car. The reality is that some people don't give a sh_t about other people's property. Someone in a parking lot recently walked into the mirror on my m.b. so hard they damaged the mirror - how do you walk into a car?! Fortunately this hasn't happened to my p-car yet. But parking off in the distance is the best solution I've found....bonus is you develop a nice big grin walking up to your car (if it's still on its own). If my wife is with me, I drop her at the door and then go and park...she's resigned herself to that process.

I take two spaces by parking my Pcar on a diagonally, I only do this on the farthest end of the lot.

we suffer from touch parking here. people think is ok to nudge you car when they are paralled parking and because the nose is so low on the pcar they mis judge it and end up hitting the front end hard and cracking the paint work. invariably the offender is a 15 year old fiat which already has large number of battle scars. i now try never to park in places where this is possible and if parking in say a a supermarket, park with the rear end facing outward so people manouvering have better chance of seeing where the car starts!!

My friend keeps two LARGE orange cones in his 996. He puts them in front ot the bumper when parking on the street and puts them next to the doors when in a parking lot. Door dings are another reason I never valet park my car. some people take up two spots parkingther car in perpendicular manner. I think that's asking to get your car keyed. I like to park my car a quarter length short of the parking block or curb so that the next guys doors aren't lining up to my doors.

if i'm not in the P-car, i try to park to protect those exposed porsches that i see. the suburban has a small porsche sticker on the back, so hopefully the porsche owner figures it out - the audi doesn't have any 'ID' but i think of it as just doing my duty....

Personally, I don't think people *try* to park close to our p-cars... For example, I went to get a sandwich last weekend. It's been something like 6 months since a weekend day that's not raining so I took the 911. I parked hella far away from everybody with an ample # of open spots between me and the nearest car. I'm in the sandwich shop when I notice a woman in a Camry come into the lot, circle around and head right for the spot next to my car (only inches away from my passenger door!) I run out, hop in the car and crank it up to move the car before she gets out. She just looked at me completely startled (maybe it was the fabspeed?) but I realized SHE HAD NO EFFING CLUE THAT SHE WAS ABOUT TO DING MY CAR! Let's just face it folks, PEOPLE ARE STUPID. End of story.

I always park in the far reaches of the lot and usually the car stays clear, but there's always some dimbulb who'll slide in next to me with plenty of spots closer in. On a related note, sometimes the dimbulbs get theirs. I was leaving a lot behind a gal in a Toyota who insisted on going left (across two lanes of oncoming traffic so she could try to fit into two lanes going her direction). She gets out across the two oncoming lanes but there's no break in traffic on the side she wants to merge into, so she's brought the two oncoming lanes to a halt. Among the haltees is a motorcop. She sees him and starts backing. I'm at the edge of the driveway waiting to turn right and when she gets within about four feet of me without yet turning her head or using the mirror I lay on the horn. There's a guy behind me so I can't back, and she creeps right into me. Fortunately, no damage, not even a scratch. The motorcop pulls her and me over, has me stand by while he writes her for unsafe backing and some other mover, and then apologizes to me for her backing into me after seeing him.

I think the safer thing to do for parking is to look for an 'optimal' spot. This is a spot that has a curb or wall on one side, and a nice car on the other. Then you park as close to the curb as you can to give the nice car all the room it needs. The preference of course is to park next to cars that are already there; you know, the danger you know is better than the one you don't.

When I was younger and riding a sports bike I once found a lovely young lady who had fallen asleep on it when it was parked right outside a bar. She appologised and told me it was the only seat she found as she was dead tired....I've never had such luck with my p-car....maybe I should let the doors unlocked.

"You toucha my car, I breaka you face"

They do it out of spite. I remember in high school (years ago) parking my POS Datsun so close to a guy's fancy car (he parked way out in the parking lot and took up two spots) that I had to climb out my other door to get out of my car. I laughed for hours at the thought of the guy coming out to see his car parked a mile from the store but 2 inches from my car. Of course, I would never do that now but it sure was funny then. Just my $.02, but I think the more effort you take to guard against door dings (taking up 2 spots, door protectors, etc) the more you are asking to get keyed.

Always remember that if you have to park in a tight spot always park on the right hand side of a car if possible with the curb between you and that car. The odds are 50/50 that there is only one driver and that they will only open the driver side door of the car thus not hitting you. I like the bright orange cone idea but I would worry it would invite intentional damage as well as diagonal parking.

just take it like a man!! The world is full of ignorant idiots!! and that is the reason they don't drive a fancy car...they don't understand "freaks" like us...who spend days detailing, buffing and modding their cars....their cars are transportations tools (A to B and back)... I almost gave up worrrying about it...but still park on corner spots (yes Chris 50% less ding change) or far away (take my wifes bitching for granted)....and still I had dings....on top of my fender for crying out loud!!! ...I think I am going to make my P higher. like those monster trucks....

Three years ago my wife bought an Audi S4 convertible. She always parks as close as possible to the stores where she shops. The car is also her daily commuter and she parks in a multi-story garage in Baltimore city. So after three years and 50K miles , she only has two small door dings on her S4. If she was so inclined she could have both of them removed for about $125. Most parking spaces are much larger than they were 20 years ago, and unless you are unlucky enough to park next to a jerk, it's easy enough to open a car door without banging into the car parked next to you.

Ah, where do you live? Fantasyland?! Come visit me anytime you want in the tri-state area and I'll show you some lovely parking spaces.

I have to agree, where do you live? Spots are smaller and monster SUV's are everywhere. Round these parts, I think the worst offender is the Valco mall. I think those spots were sized for the old communist east German cars I saw when I visited there back in the mid 80's!

I dont think it is the spot size as much as it is idiots parking on or near the edge line of their spot. I try and park next to a curb on the right so that I only have one side exposed, and that is the passenger side of the other car. I also try to pull as close to the curb on the right side typically leaving nearly 3 feet between the driver side of my car and the line. However, I still get idiots parking with their passenger side tires on the line between me and their car making the distance between the cars within door ding range. Maybe I am just **** about this stuff, but it seems like they do it on purpose in most cases. OK, I have said my peace. Serenity Now! Serenity Now!

I have to disagree with the theory that people park close to get a look at the Porsche, because I've noticed that even when I park my daily driver out far at a strip mall/supermarket/mall (a grey BMW- nothing exotic that anyone would want to look at ), I almost always come back and find 3-4 cars parked around me. It's crazy...my theory is just that people see another car and for some strange reason feel compelled to park by it- there will be 20 cars in a line, 8 empty spaces, then my car and 3-4 others when I come out- crazy! We need a psychologist to do a study (on the people who park by cars in the middle of nowhere that is, not on us porsche lovers ) I've got 63K miles on the BMW and only one small ding which was my fault, unrelated to parking...I've been using the methods that many on here use- end spots, park out far when possible, never valet, etc... No dings on the porsche so far (knock on wood)- that would **** me off, but it is only a weekend car so I can select where I drive it

Andrew, you're spot on. It's the wisdom of crowds theory. You ever notice when people leave an auditorium (for sports, a movie, whatever), a few trickle out at first, followed soon by a mass exodus. I suspect that when someone see a car parked alone on a lot, they park next to it much like people crowd together on street corners for traffic lights. In the end, we're all lemmings.

My theory is that parking next to a 911, you're almost certain that the 911 driver isn't going to open his door and ding your car.

The way I see it is-Parking spots have stayed about the same size but cars/suvs just keep getting bigger and bigger. And some of the doors are so big that they need 4-5 feet of room to just open them and get out. Unless your the Brady Bunch, who the hell needs that much room.

4s, don't even get me started on large SUVs with crappy mileage that NEVER go offroad. And people call Porsche drivers 'porcupines'. But don't worry, when gas creeps to $4.00 this summer (blame the gov't and MTBE switchover to ethanol), that'll be the end of those behemoths that clutter the road and threaten Porsche front hoods everywhere.

Basically the way I do it is always park next to a luxury car or brand new car, chances are those owners are more cautious than the others when they open the door and get out. It depends how long you are going to be away, if it's too long, you can't prevent other cars going out and coming in the lot simple as that.

If I drive a civic and never own Porsche before, (I used to own a civic, no offense to civic owners) when I try around the lot even though there is going to be plenty spots left, more than likely I would still park next to a luxury car specially exotic cars you don't see very often, it's just human instinct.

I personally would key your car if I ever saw it like that, and I own three Porsches myself.

I'd beat someone down if I saw them taking a key to any car under any circumstances.

OK, so don't take up two spaces like a tool. Also, there is no way that a driver of a C4 cab could put the beat down on me, unless maybe you use your purse. Dream on. And just in case you haven't figured it out by now, I am just joking around, and I am referring back to an old joke with Riad. I wouldn't key anybody's car, but it is an extremely assholish move to take two spots. Period. If the "chance" of a door ding or damage bothers you too much, sell the P-car and buy something that doesn't bother you. Do I want door dings? No. Do I inconvenience myself in any way to avoid them? No. Who cares. BTW, I don't even have any door dings. I believe that the "special" steps people take to avoid door dings increases the chances that they will get one.

I find myself getting mildly obsessive about where to park, and who to park next to if there are no distant spaces: - No minivans, in case they're full of overexcited kids throwing the doors open - No coupes, as they have long doors - No SUVs, for all of the above reasons - No Z3s or other girly "sports cars", since Daddy or hubby probably paid for the car, so the driver has no concept of the cost of repairs and they don't care anyway

Just hire someone to drive around with you, then he can get out and make sure no one dings your car. Cmon people, COMMON SENSE!!!

Break your ankle in two spots and dislocate it to make sure and get a handycap tag. Great parking, almost worth the agony.

Happy to ride my Harley over to do the job if it would make you feel more manly. BTW: I'm just kidding as well. Not for me. I have severe door ding phobia and park accordingly. 20 years, 50 cars, and still waiting for my first ding. Of course, I do have 2 carjackings to my credit so maybe TDinDC is right and my parking karma is catching up to me!

Parking is a complicated strategy... It's preferable to park near a 4 door over a 2 door. No matter how big the spot, a full swing of a 2 door is going ot hit you. If it's a SUV, almost always family cars hence you might have kids open the door themselves. Baby seats are bad too...parents have to swing doors out quite a bit to get them in there. Minivan, are typically safest over sedans/SUV because the rear doors slide versus open. I know this is contrary to popular belief...but I find that MOST people out there are careful and avoid dinging a nice sports car. Now of course, putting it in perspective, if a regular car gets a ding every month, a P-car might get away with every 6 months. Conclusion... I just park at the closest reasonably safe and sized spot, and hope for the best. Besides, add a $500 year ding repair line item to your budget and you'll all good to go. I mean...I'm sure everybody here has a ticket budget . From what I remember of the household income survey thread...it's not like the crowd here can't afford it. Gotta pay to play . thanks, Amir

One time I parked my car in a pretty full lot at one of the shopping plaza here in VA and there was a space next to me that was still free. Luckily I was on the phone and still sitting in my car when this girl pulled up to that space next to me with a camry. Her driver side door was literally one feet away from my car. I looked at her as if she was f'ing crazy, I mean how the hell are you gonna get out of that car without dinging my car??? I immediately started my car and moved it to another spot. Some people got no brains or they just don't give a sh*t about other peoples properties.

You slacker Vove. Quiet worrying about door dings and get your @ss to the track. You mean you gave some poor girl the Chairman's evil eye? Dammmmmmmmmmmm Your'e a very bad man

I don't drive it at all, period!...ahahahahahahaha! So far no dings yet, it's a 99 986! i always parked to the last row of the parking lot or if I can't , I look for exotic cars (like what we all have here in this forum) or I looked for a minivan that has a sliding rear door....just like what Amir said!

I had to mang, she was giving me the "did I do that" look. Track is somewhere near my future...very near..just don't spank me too bad with your 944 when I get out there.

Okay - I'm reading all his with horror, as I take great care where I park my car and yes, I'll park at the back of an empty lot, just to stay away from other cars - even when I'm not driving my p-car. One time I parked at the back of a lot at Target, even thought it was raining heavily, next to a nice Acura. No problem I thought. When i return, the acura was gone and big red plastic gouges were left down the left driver's side of my car. The person in question actually used force to ram the shopping cart down in between their car and mine. I buffed the door like crazy afterwards, but the trim is permanenty embedded with red plastic from a Target shopping cart... and you wonder why I think that most people are mindless, inconsiderate bastards.

I used to park my car far, far away from others and it still got "scratched" (first pic). After I got it repaired, I decided to park in the parking lots and then surround it with the orange cones (2nd pic).

cute.... sad, but cute.

Tip in advance, and ask for a front spot. I've never had a problem with a valet, and I use them everywhere I can. -td

Me too. Often I get to park it myself, and usually it is right in front of the restaurant. Helps that I also speak Spanish.

I keep a gallon of gasoline in a sealed container in the trunk. When I park, I pour the gasoline in a circle all around the car. Then i light the ring on fire. This tends to keep people from parking near me and also keeps them from getting close to the car and putting fingerprints on it. This works especially well at night. The other thing that works, mainly for daytime parking, is to dump a ring of any type of white powder around the car and put a small sign on the ground that says "warning - ANTHRAX" This does a great job of keeping everyone away.

Must be the ex-San-Jose 408 area-code psychic hotline connection . thanks, Amir

I used to park far away from other cars until I realized I got MORE scratches/vandalism rather than less. I now park with the rest of the herd. Although, I still look for nicer cars to park next to.

Ahh, another one that escaped the 408 madness.... I sooooo miss sitting in traffic on I-280.

the Beauty of the rear sliding Door Minivans...and they said minivans don't serve any purpose beside hauling off our kids...hahahahaha! i still drive my 93 Merc Villager w/ 210k miles to go to Oriental Store or Asian Market here coz' the parking spaces are way too tight....

So your from the bay area before? I drive my 04 XR Matrix everyday from San Jose to Frisco, luckily my time starts @ 6:30am till 3pm so i get to leave before the traffic starts in the morning and afternoon but Friday is horrible on either freeway (101 or 280)

Is there a consensus? If you park away from everybody, somebody is going to single you out, park next to you, in the farthest place from the entrance, and ding you anyway? If you park close to the door, these drivers/passengers are just as inconsiderate and will ding your car anyway? If you park far away and take two spaces, someone is going to park next to you and key your car, despite the fact that you park far away, but took up two unused spaces? I've got it!!! Keep you P-car a garage queen... yea, right...I'll take up the two spaces and take the chance on getting keyed. Maybe the traffic cones I am going to put in my car and use when parking will attract the P-car owners that key other P-cars because they don't want P-car owners accused of taking up two parking spaces. How about... none of the above...I carry a cover with my car. It gets covered, and takes just a minute to remove and install.

We lived in South San Jose until the end of 1997. Like you I'd leave at ridiculously early hours to drive from S. SJ up to San Carlos. I'd put in a 12 hour day, then spend 90-120 minutes driving home (depending on how bad traffic was). Eventually, we got tired of the long commutes, high cost of living and poor quality of life and moved to the east coast. We would never move back. It's no fun to live in a high priced shoebox and spend all your life stuck in traffic, even when you're driving a Porsche. I now live 6 miles from work and have a house where my neighbors are not right on top of me. Work hard. Play hard. Live a balanced life.

Hahahahaha... Grew up in NE Philly, family has now spread out to Newtown, Jamison, Horsham, and Hatboro. I don't exactly live in a shoebox nor do I commute more than a max of 20 minutes either way to work BUT I WOULD DIE TO GET OUT OF THE BAY AREA! (Too bad I probably couldn't find any work back there and my wife would divorce me the first sign of snow or 100% humidity). Actually, change the above "Hahahahah..." to "Wah! Wah! Wah!"

Well, if the description of shoe box is 2800sq ft, Single Story, 4 bed, 3 1/2 bath, "3 car garage" w/ home theater studio on a .5 acre lot....I will take my chance of staying here in CA. hehehehehehe! and still drive a Porsche in mid november and ocassionaly on mid Jan...yap, it's all worth it..... BTW...that was my wish list. Got the Porsche already and the shoe box (townhouse) but still working on 3 car garage w/ 4bed and 3 1/2 bath

Congratulations on paying 3-4x the price you would pay for the same house on the East Coast! California used to be an incredible place, sadly, over population killed it's charm and beauty - my wife was born there - she refuses to move back. Driving the Porsche in January is nice, but personally, I prefer seasons.

hehe. I know your area well and I'm guessing you know Doylestown pretty well too. We've been here almost 5 years and this areas is okay. Given the choice we would move back to New England - best place in the country we've had the opportunity to live!

Me it's the opposite... I used to live in Campbell, then in Mountain View...5 minutes to work. No traffic. Around here I work from home. However, the average joe commutes 1-2hrs to get into NYC. I can't tolerate that. I agree with the shoebox thing...my friend just bought a 1100 sq/ft condo in Palo Alto off of University avenue for $950-ish. Other dude...bought a 2 bedroom townhome for $550-ish. However, you can't beat the west coast weather! 24/7/365 Porsche Cab time! No winter tires...no hardtop. And the opportunity to become rich is immense! thanks, Amir

I've been here 16 years ("Oh, I'll try out California for a year or two." is what I said ). When I'm back, I drown my sorrows at Docs Inn (I still call it Reese's though...). I've learned to *almost* copy the east coast pizza but the lack of good locally made rolls kills any hoagies or steaks I make. And, what I wouldn't do for a good soft pretzel! (ONE WITHOUT BUTTER ON IT! ) I bet you don't drive your p-car to that SBUX in Doylestown, eh? That tiny parking lot is a bear! Dtown and the surrounding area is beautiful. You don't know how many times I've drooled thinking of what it would be like to drive my 996 down Rushland Rd/Swamp Rd/Penns Park road! Enjoy life back east! I'm jealous!

The "seasons" thing..hear that a lot from people living in Cali for a long time. thanks, AMir

It's pretty here, but yeah, you have to be careful where you park - hence my strong feelings about where I park my car. My understanding is that this place has changed a lot since you left here... lots of development in the last 10 years. Thankfully you can still get out into farming areas within a 15 minute drive. Nothing beats tootling around country roads at high speed... well, until you hit a cow/deer at 85mph.

It was funny... my first Christmas in California was bizarre. We were visiting my in-laws outside Sacramento and it was 85 degrees on Christmas day. That's just wrong. I love seasons. To me the spring and the fall are the best times of year. The only California season is the sun and concrete season... oh yeah, and 3 weeks of rain in January. I know what you mean about the NYC commute. We had friends that used to do that... they're equally insane. As I said, it's about quality of life and I'd say the NYC slog is a worse quality of life issue than the Bay Area.

Yah, when I left, my family still lived inside the city (near Cottman and the Blvd!) but I had lots of friends who's familys migrated outside the city so it was cruisin' the farmlands on weekends and summers was the default. I didn't drive a 911 then though... My lime-green Pinto (I kid you not) was not the chick mag my memory wishes for! Now, back to our regularly scheduled program ranting about idiots and how the park.

it was just a wish list...hehehehehe! no harm intented i don't know if you guy's notice it, but on my last comment i put "3 car garage first before the actual bedrooms and bath"...it was a lame joke sorry....hehehehe!

What's a "season?" In South Florida, we just have hot and humid and hotter and more humid.

I caught it and thought it was pretty funny... follows my priorities... lack of the three car garage is the excuse my wife uses for not buying another p-car. <mutters under breath>

yeah, but you need the p-car to outrun the hurricanes. Looks like you guys got off easy this year.

off the topic: Things to do before getting 95' 993 Cab or 88 930 Slant Nose: 1) Get her a 4 bedroom house in Evergreen Valley *done 2) Buy her 1kt Solitaire Princess Cut Belgium diamond on our 15th anniversary *done 3) Go to Vegas and get married again after 17 yrs. of being together *done 4) send daughter to college *done (daughter entering 2nd yr of nursing) 5) Make sure our 2 boys (15 & 7) are not getting in trouble *done but it's a working progress 6) Get promoted @ work *done 7) Stay active @ Church * still active 8) Be a good role model to my kids *done and still in progress 9) Take Wife out for a date once a month *done and still doing it for the past 5 yrs. 10) Buy her a Boxster *done & it's a 99 Boxster whew....now my turn and thank God, I'm only 37!

Come out to the valley and you'll have your seasons. Of course, I get to wake board into November due to the current and temperature change of the Delta water (waaahoooo!). And you can buy that three car, four bedroom out here...and still be cold at Christmas! Did someone mention lime green pintos? ::Shudder::

The Valley's nice but if you work in the South Bay, the commute is hell. In the 16 years I've lived here, every job I've ever had was within a 4 mile (southerly) radius of 237 between 101 & 880. If I lived in the Valley, I'd be dead by now - from frustration. But, if you can find work out there, then it'd be all good! Haha, that was me mentioning the lime green pinto. Yah, as if I wasn't already a dork in HS, my parents thought it was one cooooool ride for me! Cruisin the streets of Philly, I'll tell ya the ladies were impressed (NOT). This picture is close, but the "green" in this guy is closer ==>

I know someone who cvommutes from Pleasanton to S. SJ every day. His drive is hell. He consoles himself that it's now better than it was before the bubble burst. What a life.

This is a great place for people to vent their frustration about the idiots out there that have no respect for other peoples' property...I think this post might set a new record for length at the rate it is growing. My personal motto: "Stupid should hurt"

I did the commute from Manteca to Pleasanton for about a year...then found employment in the valley. The commute is a KILLER!! You lose so much of your life. Oh boy!! That pinto brings back memories! My parents had one (Can't remember the year)...it was the station wagon in Pinto orange!! Eek that car was sooooooo ugly!

honestly, people don't care and the parking world does not revolve around you or the porsche

wow...someone has woken up on the wrong side of the bed j/k!

I thought we were all nuts with our parking issues...but not after today. I park my 996 at the end of a row when I am at one of my stores. Today, I'm talking on the phone looking out the window and a lady in a white Bentley pulls up and QUADRUPLE PARKS! That's right folks...4 parking spaces...two for the front of the car and two for the back...one for each corner. The funny thing is that it took her three attempts to walk away from the car 'cause her alarm would trigger everytime she closed the door.

TBH, Her car cost about four times what ours did, it seems only fair Justin

I completely agree with that statement!

When I parked there were no other cars in this section of the parking lot, so weird