First time Porsche owner, new project

I am not new to the performance car world, but I just picked up my first 911. Its just a 1999 C4 to get my feet wet for now... I am not sure I will just drive it, turn it into some crazy turbo or V8 car or what just yet. Time will tell, for now Im jsut gonna rebuild the motor and go from there...

LN engineering 4.0l + supercharger or TPC's / IMA's turbo kit. That'll do...

At the current moment, plans are to start with rebuilding the stock engine to OEM specs for the most part and go from there. Not sure yet if I will like this car or if its the right car to start a project with yet. Ideally a TT chassis would be a nice starting point. Well see I guess.

nice....where'd you buy it from? The car looks a little strange for a 99. It has the rear bumpers of a 02+ C4S...interior looks to be updated too. Anyway when you say rebuild to OEM specs - are you saying it was a non running car? Any more interior shots of the gauge cluster?

Wouldn't the updated interior have a glove box? Correct, I wanted something with a blown engine to get familiar with rebuilding the engine. No way to know your car better then rebuilding the engine. It's from MA...

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good luck - there are lots of threads in this forum on rebuilding a 3.4L 996 engine...

That's the first conversion to a C4S look that I've ever seen.

I am totally new in the Porsche option world, so if you guys spot anything not oem or that is upgraded let me know. Previous owner says the springs are stock, doesnt it sit low?? Its got an aftermarket exhaust, tune, Techart rear bumper, 18" turbo rims, CIA, and thats all he knew about it, it was upgraded when he bought it. When I go actually pick it up this weekend I will be able to decipher more specifics... It has 62,000 miles on it with a cracked cylinder liner...

Everybody here (including me) loves pics of engine gore and the road to recovery, so please post pics of the process if you can Mike

Car was originally from AZ if anyone knows it original wherabouts...

This should be fun!

what's the VIN: I can decode it for ya

Thanks, the last eight are: XS627219

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need the whole VIN...i can't use just the last 8...

WP0AA299XXS627219

here was the original ebay listing. you can see the carfax on it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1999-...4#full-history

Definitely has a Turbo/C4S rear bumper and it looks like it has the brakes, too, although they could just be painted red. As you pointed out, the interior is definitely Mk1 since it doesn't have a glovebox so that supports it being a '99. The reflector that spans rear is C4S only but Porsche didn't introduce the C4S until '02. Got a close-up of that part of the trunk? It looks strange in the picture but it could just be the picture or my monitor (the latter of which is a piece of garbage when it comes to color resolution). I didn't think the C4 and C4S rear engine hatches were interchangeable...but that I don't know. I am curious how they got the wide body bumper on the narrow body car though. Was it cut? What size rims are on the car? Porsche made NB Turbo-look wheels. You can't tell whether they're OEM or aftermarket from the pics. You'd have to check out the rims themselves. Any pictures of the engine with the lid open? -Eric

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it's all in the ebay ad that I linked to

Yes, check out the add. Funny thing is that I found the car on here and did not even know it had an ebay add when I bought it. Lol

Thanks! Yep, it was my monitor. Btw, congrats on the car. I meant to say that in my earlier post. Let us know what you decide to do with it! I know it's blasphemy but if you're going to go all out on it I'd love to see a V8 conversion. -Eric

here's a v8 conversion on a 996 c4 http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...onversion.html and the vid: You Tube

Techart bumper or not, That must be some type of "custom" rear light bar? It's a bit of a "frankenporsche". Hopefully with a blown motor you got a killer deal.

Acutally, Its kinda my specialty doing V8 conversions, wiring and tuning. It would actually be much easier for me to install one of my LS engines into the car and have a 500hp N/A V8 then to rebuild this motor. Or even a stock LS engine with a simple single turbo making a conservative 800hp. That's why I have other posts trying to decipher the strength differences between the optional transmissions. I am sure a TT trans would hold without issue, but I somehow need to know the breakdown of the C4 trans. This motor is worth far more alive then dead, so I am going to rebuild it either way. Who knows. Lol

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What looks different about the rear light bar?? I finally just figured out the headlight differences in 02+. I am learning all the little subtle model year changes slowly...

Btw, as for the Turbo rims, you should know a couple of things (not that it's really that important): - Turbo rims have hollow spokes. - C4S (WB) rims share the same style/size as the Turbo but are solid spoke. - C4 (NB cars) were available with option Turbo-look rims but they were a different size because they were designed for the NB cars. I believe they're also available in the aftermarket so if you care about this, you can easily check the numbers on the rims to know what you've got. Also, the seller says the car has a Techart rear bumper but it looks exactly like a 996 WB (Turbo/C4S) rear bumper (minus the bumperettes). I've never seen a Techart part designed to look exactly like an OE replica Porsche part - again, this could be my monitor, too. Techart always goes outrageous or, even when subtle, throws in some additional overlay or flair to differentiate itself from the OE part. But, just because I've never seen it doesn't mean anything. I'm just curious about its origins. Maybe Techart's version is the same except for the bumperettes. I don't know. Of course, none of this goes to the car's performance. -Eric

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The "***" end of the C4S is wider than a C2 996. And the C4 (from 99-01) have the same width body as the C2. The 99-01 C4 had no rear light bar going across the back. The 02+ cars are C4S with wider and the factory C4S light bar would not fit on a narrow body car.

Among other things, the C4S also shares its suspension, brakes and AWD system with the Turbo.

I would say the rear bumper is similar to the 4S version but with some differences, apart from the WB thing and that is the horisontal creases look somehow different. It also looks like it goes further down, making the car look lower somehow. Re rims and tires, did not know you could fit 295 rears on a non WB, so it cannot be Turbo/4S wheels at the back? (I'm learning too, so could be wrong on this)

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I have 295's on 10" wheels in the Summer. Never an issue even with the X74.

I run the same size wheels as Pete on my 99. Love em. Now, as to rebuilding it to "spec", this is a.) dumb considering a new Porsche engine case, pistons and rings costs substantially more than the better alternative (more below) and b.) you would be a fool to do this. Stock lokasil has it's shortcomings, and so do the stock pistons. Certainly if you are doing the work rebuilding (or not) at the very least go with LN Engineering's Nikasil offering (more displacement than stock, better material) with JE forged pistons (better than stock pistons).

I posted the vin... I mean stock rebuild, as I am only going to rebuild the engine to be used in a stock car, especially if I may ditch the motor for a V8. I really dont think spending crazy money on a motor that I may not keep is real smart. Unless someone wanted the motor and was willing to pre buy it and specified parts they wanted installed or something like that. But at this point I really dont know what my plans are yet... I need wait for delivery and then decide...

Buy a used engine then... Silly to do otherwise.

I didn't read all of the replies, but it looks like it has a Fabspeed silicon elbow, that things like 200 bucks I think.

C4S rear bumper will not fit a narrowbodied car, it's too wide. The one you have is an aftermarket one. (As is mine.) Also that red "reflector" on your rear hatch is aftermarket, OEM follows a grease on the hatch, that form continues to tail lights, which again are wider than ones on a NB car. Front end is std mkI, as well as side skirts. Nothing really special according to VIN, except M032, Touring suspension. Is that something unique to US-market? If you change to a V8, you'll loose the PSM. For really big power with a V8 you need to change to turbo's transmission. Boosted std engine survives with std trans. Install a LSD though.

From what I know PSM would not be affected at all whatsoever. There are nothing but pluses to a LS conversion. Plus you gain power, future power potential(did you know a stock LS engine can support 650hp reliably without internal modification), reliability, low cost maintenance, more traction and launch control features, valet modes(anti abuse also), two step staging launch control, speed and rpm activation features to run things like a TT wing etc, lean burn mileage functions, and the list goes on. Not sure many know all this. So a v8 swap makes a 996 or any car for that matter, more capable then it originally was. I could also do a tuned, turn key install for less then $10k

Pete, what is the average max power limit on a C4 trans? Who has blown one up and at what power level. By blow up I mean snapped gear or input shaft, not shifting problem or grinding. I'm trying to find information but can't find anything yet...

PSM needs communication with Motronic. Motronic needs few correct signals from engine for this purpose, at least MAF and two way comms with E-Gas. If someone can provide kit with these features the the PSM works. I really do not know about transmissions, more than there's few boosted cars with 400+ hp. I suppose someone like Renegade Hybrids have info about that.

The LS swap will keep the psm because you would not touch the stock computer. The inputs would be shared with the LS computer so it would not be affected. I have to do a little more digging with my software to see what options I can do with this, you got me thinking. Lol

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I guess it depends on your definition of "capable." If you've ever driven an RS4, you know that a bigger/heavier engine hanging over the wheels doesn't always come without its penalties. If you're just looking for a straight line machine then probably, yes, it should be more capable than a smaller engine with lower output especialy given that the extra weight is going to sit over the rear wheels powering the car. It'll also sound...well...like a v8 (which is to say "excellent"). That said, Porsche has spent decades trying to defy physics and the inherent performance penalties of having the engine sit on top of the rear wheels. More weight back there will only pervert the problem around a tight corner (which is really where these cars shine)...but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be a beast to drive (and I mean that in a good way!). lol Just watch the lift throttle oversteer. -Eric

The engine is the same weight and would not affect weight bias. I'm actually betting a few pounds may be saved...

Well, in that case, just ignore everything I wrote! lol

Lo, its ok, I dont think alot of people know that. A LS1 crate motor weight in about 390lbs, with all accessories depending of what car its from(Truck, f-bofy, C5/C6) it weighs 440-470lbs. I only weighed one once out of a 2000 z28 and it was 460 with accessories, flexplate, oil and all. Tube manifolds, and electric water pump will cut down on weight too, so weight is not an issue, there are really no negatives to the swap. And considering the time bomb factor and cost of 3.4 replacement, it may make more sense to some to go this route. A complete turn key setup can be installed for under $10k.

I did the research on this and could not come up with a $10k figure... unless you do more of the fabrication yourself. If you buy a crate engine and renegade hybrid's conversion bits, I came up with something closer to $15k. I guess a lot of it depends on which power-plant you decide on, that beast of a engine that renegade used in his promo is like $12k alone (long block). Still though, it would be a lot of fun... but you would end up with a "bastard", not sure what it would do to the resale value. There was a fellow on renntech that did this, he already had the engine from somewhere and did most of the fabrication himself, his out of pocket expenses were really low, I want to say $4000 about 5 years ago.

I source used turn key low mileage engines. No need for a new engine when they run longer then anyone will ever drive their P car anyway. My own car would cost about me close to $10k, but that would be with twin turbos as well. Without turbos will be roughly $5-6k to complete my own swap with motor, adaptor, and all. All depends on what clutch id use too. If I do go this route, Ill make a few copies of anything I fab incase someone else may ever want this done too... Who knows though, I really dont know what Ill do, ive been pretty busy lately so limited on time. I don't have an entire week to lose right now to do a motor swap. Lol If I ever ended up having to do one for someone else cost would be about $10k without a twin turbo setup...

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This is a Porsche forum, BTW. Used, no question you could do it for less...

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There's an exception to every rule but my assumption is that most people doing these kinds of conversions aren't doing it for resale. It would be worthless to most buyers -- other than someone looking for a unique, bad ***, bastardized 911. If there's a seller, there's a buyer. There's a market for everything. -Eric

If a buyer can get a ls motor installed for $10 because they popped their 3.4(as in my case), seems like a safer more cost effective route for a car thats only worth $15k anyway. No? I dont know, thats just my thoughts... Obviously most people want to keep the car 100% original, but I cant see spending $a5-20k on a new replacement 3.4 on a $15,000 car. Thats were the swap makes far more sense. ORRRR, for huys who track the hell outta their cars this makes far more sense in the long run...

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For $20k youll get a boosted 4.0l.

Installed really? Well, that's still double an LS setup, and its still on a $15,000 car. You know? I called that Porsche car dismantler in Cali. They were saying they have no 3.4 parts and can't find enough to rebuild. I guess were they send there engine for rebuild is really behind with finding parts and things... Crazy!

You could get a 5.3 for 500 bucks, if you can fab this swap could be done for next to nothing.

The cheapest turnkey aluminum L33 your gonna find is about $1500. The iron 5.3's are much cheaper but make much less power, have iron blocks, and you must get one with all accessories, PCM, and harness. Those little addons over a bare long block will cost you thousands to pick up after the fact...