996 vs 993

Trying to figure out the logical upgrade from my 964 when its time to trade her in. I always thought i would get a 993 next but now i'm not so sure anymore. The way 996 prices fall these days, a well sorted out 993 will cost the same or even more... So why dont go for a newer/better car? I haven't driven the 996 yet. If i had i would probably know what car i wanted. But on paper the 996 seems like a good deal. How is it to live with the 996 (I know about RMS issues), and how is it to drive compared to the 993? Sorry if this have been up in an earlier post. Tore, 91 C2

both are great cars. each has its own prob. rms on 996, premature valve guide wear/CEL on 993 just to name what came to mind mind. some say one car will out last the other, but how long do you really plan to keep it? go drive both, they feel very very different. one will speak to you.

Just as John says, go drive them both. You'll know after a few test drives.

After driven both the 996 was the choice.

The 993 will drive much more like your 964, while the 996 has a "softer" feel to it. They're very different cars!

Drive them both and see for your self they are both great cars, but very different. A 993 is well older technology with an int that has been the same since 1969 but some like that.Both cars have their own gremlins and far from perfect.I bought a 996 because it is a great daily driver and had warranty and it was easy to get one with the options and colours i wanted.I think every Porsche is better then the one before.

Hi - this is my favorite topic - I looked at 993s for 3 months and drove a ton of them - in Southern California, they are nearly as much as a 996 for one in good shape, so....I test drove a 996 and never looked back. The 993 is great, and I wish I had the room and money for both, but they're different driving experiences. The 993 is much more raw, a great drivers car. The 996 is still a great car, but much more refined, so it depends what you want. You can't go wrong either way, but if you drive both, I think you'll wind up in a 996....

Actually in my area late model 993s are priced much higher than early model 996s. I guess there's still a strong demand for the last of the air cooled engines.

Newer is not necessarily better. My car is consistently faster than 99 and 00 996's owned by a couple of guys I know.

First of all, I don't believe a '95 993, which has less power than the '96 through '98 models, is faster than the 996s - maybe you're a better driver than your friends. Also, unless you're at the track and know exactly what you're doing, few people are going to drive these cars at their limits, and pure speed is not the only factor under discussion. Foss, don't worry about RMS issues - the 993 is probably more costly to maintain. Drive both and go with what feels better to you. Just make sure to get a PPI. I personally think the 993 is better looking than the 996, and I love the way the 996 looks, so you can't go wrong. You have to drive both to make this decision. If you read through the 993 and 996 forums, you'll find that both sets of owners are very happy and passionate about their cars.

My friend just went thru the valve guide ordeal on his 993, 8k later. A RMS pails in comparison.

Beleive what you want....I am not the only "95" 993 that is faster than 3.4 996's.

Really, I've never had any problems passing 993s on the track, then I'll get passed by some old 964. It doesn't mean sh#t. It's all driver skill on a road course. In a pro drivers hands I'll take a 3.4 over any similarly equipped 993.

Luis - you're starting a new debate and even if you're right, you're not willing to admit that choosing a 993 or a 996 is about more than pure speed - why don't we answer Foss's questions, and if you want to debate speed alone, feel free to start a new thread. I've already admitted that 993s are awesome and I wish I had one in addition to a 996 - is that what you're looking for? Try to think bigger picture here...

Luis, Do you have an owners manual? If so, does it list any performance data, such as 0-100kph?

as DJ said, with equal drivers a 996 will be faster around the track. better power to weight ratio, better suspension. the question is regards to the car NOT the driver. i chose my '99 996 over the regular 993 because it's a newer car. more power, better suspension, updated interior. personally i love the looks of the 993 c2S and would have sacrificed interior comforts for pure looks but, at the time, they were MUCH more expensive than the 996. funny though, my car is no longer the boulevard cruiser it used to be. with all the mods i've done it's a lot more raw

Foss, I too had this decision to make and I was biased well to the 993 side going into this. In fact, I really did not like the 996's looks much and I really wanted the 993. Boy did that all change once I drove them both back to back. I drove many examples of both until I realized the 996 was far superior in nearly every way except perhaps looks. Any 996, 3.4 or 3.6 simply pulls harder than any 993 I have ever driven and handles far better as well. In the end I got over my 993 passion and realized that the 996 was just a better car for me. I even love the looks of the 996 now!!!! Good luck and let you be the judge and no one else.

Foss........you have to sort it out for yourself but I'd make 3 comments: 1.) if you are asking our opins on the merits of 993 vs 996 (and don't already have them in your gut) then I'd say you should go 996. 2.) carefull of looking for too good "a deal" on a 996.....personally I would stay MY02 or later.....very nice cars & can be modded to bring back some of the 'edge' you may miss 3.) as I said, you have to sort it out because these cars are very different and any other opins are not as valuable as yours........having said that, for me the black one will be around after the other 2 are gone Good luck and have fun shopping!

i agree with the above. i curently own 3 years now a 996 C2 01 Black/Black Factory sports suspension Factory ssk Factory sports exhaust 18" Carrera 02 wheels and i used to have 993 C2 93 for 3 years ( when i was in UK ) 964 C2 92 for 3 years ( when i was in UK ) 996 is for sure faster around the track has better power to weight ratio, and better suspension. BUT my personal opinion is that 996 has no character. (and what makes this even worse is that 996 shares same components with boxsters...) 993 has all the characteristics of a real 911 with all technology that was available at the moment. for me is the best 911 ever made. unforunetelly impot taxes here in greece were i live makes an 996 a lot ( 30%) cheper than 993.... so 996 was the route.... if i could 993 would be my car.... in addition as karlooz said, you have to undergo several mods to make a 996 more than it comes from the factory......and this what a 993 has. it combines rawness and cmfort together with technology improovments....has a bit of everything... this doesn't make me feel unhappy since 996 is for sure a brilliant example of a true sportscar...

Foss what car do you like? I love the looks of the 993 and I was a little turned off by the fact 986/996 used some of the same parts, but i just couldn't buy a 10 year old technology car . In the end i modded my 996 to be MY car, it looks good, handles great, and brakes even better, I could tell you some stories where I have raced 993s and they where embarrassed by the outcome, but i wont because i am not that kind of guy, I can tell you of examples of people i know with 993s are offering up their cars plus money for my 996, but i wont.One thing my best friend has a 993 C4S with some mods and he does keep up, and I love his car to death.and I will tell you this most Porsche guys are ********* anyways, so no matter what car you get ,they will tell you" you should have got something else"(Present company excluded)

I really like the way folks on the 996 forum address this question. Very straight forward, very fact based with minimal bias. That's refreshing. I think the difference between the cars is really at their core. The chassis. The 996 is lower, wider, lighter, stiffer and more aero-dynamic. For me, that's what makes the 996 the better car. Everything else just bolts on. Interiors are a matter of taste, the suspensions are pretty similar, the gear boxes are pretty similar in function, the dry sump is cool but I'd rather have the M96 power, etc, etc. Both cars have a few gremlins. Both cars can make you smile. The 993 is just plain beautiful. I agree with others that you should drive both and pick your favorite. Now, for Luis. I see you are in MN. You'll have to bring that 996 killer to the track next summer. I've got an early 996 for you to beat up on. Seriously though, there is a reason PCA club racing matches the stock 996 with 993TTs and euro 993RSCSs. 996s are considerably faster on the track. It all goes back to the chassis. Jim

Yes I do. I am not aware if it has that kind of information, why?

I'm curious what the Porsche factory 0-100kph time for the 270hp 993 was. It may be in the back of your manual in the technical specifications section.

Jim, I have seen your 996 in action. No thanks. It is also a very well sorted RACE car. The original question from the rennlist member was what car one would choose. I simply gave him my chioce based on personal experience. What times are you running at BIR with your 996? Luis

Luis, Due to a family illness I didn't do the MN club race this year but I ran a 1:50.3 on some pretty crappy Hoosiers at a DE. I'm sure the car is good for a 1:48 or better with a real driver. I've heard that a good 95 993 will outrun a later 993 but I'd still be very surprised to see one keep up with an early 996. See you next summer. Jim

Jim, 1:50 is awsome for a non Turbo or GT3 "stock class" car (It must be a track record) I think you are in the same DE run group as my father in his GT2 (and you run faster times than him BTW) My fastest lap around there was a 1:59 in my 944S2. I have yet to drive the 993 at BIR. I have been living in FL for the last 3 years and am planning to move back within the next couple of months. See you at First Fling, Luis

Luis Jr, I should have figured that one out. I have a lot less to loose if I go flying off turn 2 than your dad does. His GT2 is beautiful! You will find the 993 to be a handful on the track compared to your 944S2. The S2 may be one of the better handling Porsches ever. Especially if it was set up by AE. See you this spring. Maybe we can take your Dad's car for a spin when he's not looking. I'm pretty sure we can get run a 1:47 or two before he catches us. Jim

Foss, I went from a 964 to a 996 and Im loving it. I was in your shoes a few years back when I had to choose between a 993 or a 996. After a few articles indicating how superior the 996 were at the track, I was sold. Many hardcore 993 owners had to switch to the 996 just to keep up. But do test drive both and see for yourself. Good luck.

If the 993 proves to be as much of a handful as you say it will be, Ill stick to the S2. The GT2 is always the best option. I would like to do the advanced DE class with it. You are an instructor correct? If so, we can definately take it out.

Foss, Pretty much what everyone else said, plus my take as having made the same move: from 964 to the next. For me, there were a couple of extra issues. I have two small kids, and I like going out in the car as a family. That's a 20-some thousand extra two seats over the boxster etc. Porsche knows this...however, I digress. To me there was the safety equipment issue as I like cabs. There, the 996 wins hands down. Secondly, I felt it difficult to feel I was really improving on the platform with the 993. It's essentially a 964 with hydraulic valves and better suspension. Flame suit on for this one However, all 993 affectionados should look at this as a compliment: the 964 is a fantastic, hugely underappreciated car. Really one of the best 911's in my opinion. Finally, the 996 is newer and better. Sure, there are some issues. The weak paint for one. However, drive them both and you will see that there is half a decade of improvement between the 993 and 996 in terms of dynamics and performance. Enjoy the search for whichever car you'll settle on! Geert P.S. If you like cabs, the hardtop is really cool to have.

OK, let me settle this once and for all. I have owned a 1995 C4 with some cool mods and now I have a 2004 C4S. I tracked the 993 and my last 2002 C4S. They are both wonderful cars and at a very busy course like NHIS all wheel drive is a blessing to someone who drives as badly as I do since I do not DE enough to be a pro. The choice between these two cars come down to a few critical issues. The first is: what do you plan to do with the car? Commute, fun weekends, weekend track warrior, racer boy, touring etc. The second is the feel that each car "gives" you? And last would be what kind of climate do you drive in? Remember, even though you are buying a wonderful car, you are buying a compromise when it comes to the various purposes your car will serve. Identify your objectives, look at and drive some samples, ENJOY this process! It is actually more fun than the purchase! Then do the PPI, do a deal with the devil and drive yourself around until you smile all the time!!!!!!!!!!! and then sneak into your garage for a peak and say "damn" that is a very cool fkn car and it is MINE! In a perfect world we would daily drive a 996 C4S and track a very light 993 C2 with lots of safety equiptment and no cupholder! Happy Holidays, Steve

Steve, Thanks for settling this once and for all but in a perfect world I would track a very light 996 C2 with lots of safety equipment and no cupholder. Jim

Thx for all the replies. Atm I use the 964 mostly for weekend/fun drives as i have another car for daily use. I like the rawness of the 964, the direct steering, the sound etc. I consider the 993 to be an evolution of the 964. I have the impression that if i were to use the p-car as a daily driver (which i might do in the near future), the 996 would be a better choice. I still havent gotten to drive the 996 yet but i will soon. It took me awhile to adjust my mind into the 996. It's hard to let go of the world of aircoolness as it always defined the 911 for me. But time and technology moves on, even for Porsche. Wish i could have the 996 in addition to my 964, that would solve everything...

The 996 sounds way better than you expect at around 5,000 rpm - I didn't think it could sound better than the air cooled until I roared through a tunnel in my stock 996 with the top down - you said something crucial - you haven't driven the 996 yet - give it a chance, and then make your decision - and nobody will blame you if you still go with the 993 - enjoy the process.....just let us know what you decide and please share pics - how about some pics of the current car????

a well tuned stock 993 vs 3.4L 996. there is NO way a 993 will be faster whether it's on the straights or cornering. given equal driver of course.

In a perfect world we would daily drive a 996 C4S and track a very light 993 C2 with lots of safety equiptment and no cupholder! ___________ i would daily drive a 996TT and track a GT3 cup car ;-0