Close to moving to 996 questions

All, I am very close to getting a 996. I just want to clear a few concerns. I currently have a 93 964 and I am thinking about moving up (well they are different cars so I don�t know that it is up, because my current 964 is pretty darn cool.) I have read the RMS and IMS sticky thread as well as a pdf from Auto farm but I am still just a bit concerned over the engine failures paired with the fact that the engines are not often rebuilt. I just wanted to confirm that the 3.6 engines are back to the solid reliability that I have in the 964? The auto farm article says the 3.6 are pretty much problem free, so do they not have the IMS and RMS issue at all? Or do they still need to be modded ? One of the main reasons I am moving to a 996 is I want a few more creature comforts, they are wider and more comfortable and they have modern conveniences (like functional AC systems ) I will be driving this new car about 80% of the time. Is there a thread somewhere about the common problems to look out for? (Don�t worry I will be getting a PPI) Also I am seriously thinking about getting a Cab this time. I love the convertibles, but didn�t get one because I was going to do DE days. In fact I have not done much except Autocross. I would like the ability to track the car some occasionally, and from what I can figure out with the rollover protections this is allowed at most tracks (I am in the US about an hour or so from Virginia International Raceway). Are the cabs ok to track? Ie is the wind difficult to deal with or do you track it with the top up? I may back off and just get a hard top, but I have not owed a convertible since my TR6 about a million years ago. So my main concerns are the the engine reliability and the ability to track with the convertible, but let me know any other concerns I should be looking for. Here is a link to of the cars I am looking at. 03 Cab I will miss my 964 but I can�t afford both Thanks in advance for all the feed back. John

Hi John, The 3.6 M96 motors still suffer IMS and RMS issues, right into the 997 models, You will hear many opinions here on the IMS subject. And for the most part thats all they are. Opinions. There are hundreds of threads. I upgraded the IMS on my car a couple years back, Have owned my 996 for around 5 years now and it's been a great car. Good luck!

The 996 is a great car...if the IMS issue really bothers you then just make the upgrade.

So if I go ahead and do the mod I am safe?

I did the IMS upgrade last year. From everything I hear. there have been no issues with upgrade...though someone may know different.

My 996 has been very reliable. I'm about to hit 120K miles on my original IMSB. The ceramic bearing upgrade offered by LN Engineering and others is an improvement over the stock bearing in terms of materials and design. That being said, it's still the weak link in the engine. There are documented cases of upgraded bearings failing. Some people recommend changing the bearing at some regular interval, like every 60K miles. The water pump is another 996 part that should be changed before it fails. It seems to make sense to change it every 60K miles also. I'm not trying to scare you off regarding the IMSB, but you need to know that there's not a 100% guaranteed fix for the issue. It's a design issue. If you get a well-sorted, well-documented car then the chances of IMSB failure are very low. If you upgrade the bearing, they are even lower. I would find the right one, do the upgrade and then stop worrying about it. These really are great driving cars.

Thanks for the replies. I am sure this has been discussed to death here....in fact with a search it is hard to read through all the results. The Auto Farm article really threw me off, saying the 3.6 was problem free. I spoke to the shop that currently works on my 964 and they love the 996 with the 3.6 and say it is much cheaper to maintain than my car. In fact they said they have only seen 2 IMS failures. I think there is another improvement coming out sometime in the new year. I guess if I could do it for 2k or less I would go ahead just to be safe. These cars are way more comfortable than my 964.

you are as safe as you let yourself feel when shopping at the mall...yes someone might come through the door and start shooting at any second, rather you let that fear stop you from going out or you replace your bearing and say..I know karate - I am safe...is up to you never really safe, never really unsafe, low probability, high cost in if happens to you and YES people ARE rebuilding them now - the parts and tools are available some regions do not allow cabs, check your local region..ours does and PCA national rules also allows cabs BUT as stated each region has the option to omit them - BMW club here will not allow cabs - any cabs! (but the old CDI was a tad of a **** so that might be changing this year with a new CDI on deck....) concerns with a 996 - I would say infrequently driven or not driven correctly cars have a higher likelihood of having issues than cars that are driven often and warmed up correctly and then red lined on a regular basis - but THAT is opinion and many will disagree....my 996 had 130k miles last known location and had just had new cam actuators installed - starting to see those become a failure, but it's a relatively easy job for the right guy and the parts are $1k (x2) plus the labor (6-8 hours - guess)

$2k IMS replacement is very "optimistic" IMO - if the car is a 6 speed, its possible the clutch kit would need replacing and the flywheel (dual mass) might also be bad - the flywheel is $1k and the clutch another $600 (guessing prices) - then the "while your in there list of AOS and RMS (if weeping) you would be looking closer to $4k - but yes...$2k can be done...just dont put a lot of faith in that number...

Welcome to the 996 board! It sounds as though you have thought this out pretty carefully. Having owned a variety of 911s over nearly 30 years, I can tell you that the 996 is one heck of a car for the money. There is no comparison to the earlier cars for comfort. I moved to my first 996 just over two years ago and have found that they are indeed cheaper to maintain than their 3.6l aircooled predecessors. Keep in mind that this is strictly from a parts perspective as I do all the wrenching on my cars. I love my 996, but the quality of the engine components and ancillaries constantly bothers me. Every time I work on the engine, some random little plastic component breaks and I have to make a pilgrimage to the Stealer for a replacement. Some on the board will say "What do you expect from a 12-car?" My response to this is that my 911SC, my 930 my Carrera Cab and my 993 were all much older than 12 years when I owned them and weren't plagued by these irritating issues. Okay, having said that, if you have look at all the points of failure: IMS, Intermix (cracked head), etc...and are going into this eyes wide open, I say go for it! They are fantastic cars and are an incredible value right now. I love your Guards Red 964, BTW! Cheers, TomF

yea, Tom makes a good point,....some of the people in a 996 came from a 964,....and some from a Honda Accord - perspective is wide - to a 964 guy the maintenance costs might seem low - to a Honda guy they might seem outrages for the most part the cars are reliable and great drivers - but they can break (as a 964 owner knows) and cost a significant amount of money - which a Honda guy doesnt get - nor have the means to cope with and no Tim - I didnt pick on Honda's just for you

- as Ivangene said, drive it right, and most of your problems will be avoided. If you don't want to leap right away into replacing the IMS, you can get one of the early warning detectors from LNE, then just replace the IMS bearing when you do the clutch. Most of the cost of the IMS bearing replacement is in the dropping the transmission, etc. If you do it along with a clutch someday, the cost is relatively negligible. I think most of the people who replaced their IMS bearing with the LNE reported taking out bearings that looked just fine. (Clearly, there were a few that got theirs just in time.) However, like any aging car, be ready to put some money into a water pump, AOS, etc. No big deal. Most of these cars are quite reliable. Service records and your PPI will help you escape the rare one with consistent problems. - The RMS is not a big deal. Even if the seal seeps a little, it just means that the car will spot on the garage floor a little until you get around to changing it. But it clearly has gone through a number of versions (each time getting better) and is worth changing if you go in to do other things. Normally, it doesn't leak in a way that soaks a clutch friction disk or cause other genuine problems. But they were an embarrassment to those who had purchased new cars, then saw oil spots on the garage floor. - The cabs are great to track. A few car clubs on the East coast have required roll bars for cabs. That is the dramatic exception. Almost every club accepts the internal roll bars built into the rear deck. A car magazine article years ago said that while the coupe might be considered the more serious track car, the cab is more fun. Open air (which isn't a problem since you're wearing a helmet anyway). If you drive it with the top down, you get a little more weight shift toward the rear which (in their words) makes the handling more fun. - When the 996 first came out, Porsche did not support them being rebuilt in the field. Some said that this was to force problems to come back to the company so they could see what was really happening in the newly designed engines rather than get it second hand. Once that period was over, however, parts, etc., became available. It's common to have a qualified shop rebuild your engine--and the rebuild can be cheaper than some of the older air cooled engines. Good luck.

From what I have read, a ceramic IMS bearing replacement can remove the IMS bearing issue from the 996/997 decision. In all instances but one, replacement ceramic bearing failures have been related to improper replacement methods, i.e. improper alignment on installation. So if you install the bearing carefully and accurately and don't force it or otherwise misalign it during installation you are safe. I replaced mine a couple if years ago and I don't ever think about it. And the car has been amazingly trouble free.

I replaced my IMS and RMS just over a year ago while the clutch was being replaced. Of course, I went with the LN Engineering upgrade and haven't looked back since. Oh, and btw, I've had this car for 6 1/2 years and have added another 106,000 miles to the 37,000 it had when I bought it, for a total of 143,000 miles and counting. It's been my supremely reliable Daily Driver. Another thing - I am ALSO a die hard air cooled guy and have owned an '84 911 for eight years now and LOVE it. In fact, I love BOTH of those cars. Don't let Ivangene scare you with talk of replacing the flywheel. That is highly unlikely, IMO. My clutch was replaced at 110,000 miles and when my (highly experienced) mechanic buddy looked at my flywheel, he said it was perfect. Good to go. Therefore, we only had to buy the clutch pack, which one can buy for between $625 and $685 on Pelican Parts. Factor in the IMS bearing for another $620, plus maybe the removal tool (if your mechanic doesn't have one already) and you're talking $1300 plus labor. $2000 sounds about right.

Thanks again for all the feedback I am much closer now. I love the areo kits on the 996s. So far only one I am looking at (the cab I linked above) doesn't have one. The side skirts (or what ever you call them) really help the body style. The way I am thinking now, I am leaning towards the convertible. I just don't see myself tracking more than a time or two a year if that. And the area I live in you can drive with the top down with a jacket most of the year (give 3 months).

Seaflat: FWIW, I did the IMS upgrade a few years ago, as "insurance" for my baby. She is low mileage and somewhat of a garage queen (by some standards) except that she is track focused. I am pretty fastidious about regular maintenance and my baby is rock solid...having said that, sh*t happens and I am somewhat prepared for "unexpected" expenses...mechanical things do break and this isn't a Toyota. If I may make a suggestion to you, in your hunt for the right car, contact Jake Raby at Flat 6 Innovations (I think he is in Georgia, not all THAT far from you)....he is regularly rebuilding 3.6's to very high standards and probably has (or knows) of a customer or two who might be looking to sell....you would get a well sorted car, if that is the case. GL with th hunt, and post up some pix once you make the change...........you'll love it and I don't think you will look back and regret the "upgrade."

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Every 60k miles? really? isn't that a bit over the top? Is that what you do?

Not me. I'm on my original IMSB at 119,500 miles. I had my water pump replaced at ~80K miles. I mentioned 60K miles because I've seen it recommended here before. If somebody is really looking for peace of mind, this preventative maintenance might be one option.

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that's the recommendation - but like a time belt on a zero clearance motor - they "can" last longer - its the cost of them not lasting longer you are trying to avoid

Frequent oil changes is one key to good engine life - if service history shows this - that would help. If clutch is not ready to do yet - you could install IMS Guardian for piece of mind. IMS is not only potential issue with these engines - but many folks here run well beyond 100K miles with no issues .....not sure how many IMS Guardian users there are on this board - and what their experience has been with that so far - but there was a lot of chat about this around a year ago .....

I guess I don't mind doing the IMS mod so much, but it still seems strange to me that 100k is such a mark in these cars. Oil starvation on the track, the IMS - It just seems odd that 100k is routine in the 964 world, and 200k not that rare, but a newer more advanced car has trouble with it. However I am pretty sold on moving up for the technology, and comfort and the cars are really beautiful. Still going back and forth on the cab. I do want a convertible again but I did find out a track near me (VIR) will not allow the roll bar system to qualify. The car must have a real roll bar. Other tracks are not that tight. Maybe I should look at a targa, they just seem to be hard to find. I assume the targa has all the regular bracing of the hard top or close to it? Heck I didn't put this much thought into getting married...and I have had that model for 23 years....

The question of tracking a Cabriolet is kind of like the IMS issue. It probably won't be a problem and as long as nothing goes wrong, you're fine. But I personally would hate to find myself in a Cab during a rollover. That sh*t's scary enough without watching the ground going over your head.

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What makes you say that? I've never felt that 100K was a mark or a big deal for these cars. I think it's just that they're newer. The oldest in the US is the 1999 model. If you drive 8,000 miles per year, then you're at 104K miles. Many drivers put fewer miles on their cars. In a few more years, you'll see lots of examples over 100K.

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Good point. I guess I saw a ton of concerns over mileage in the forums and made that leap. In fact perhaps it is too early to tell how dependable the motor will be. In the 964 world people lose engines, I wonder what the stats are for failures to compare the two.

I bought the 2004 40th Anniversary 911 and it has been running fine since I purchased it with 26000 kilometers on it. I was so worried after I read the posts about the IMS bearing I was ready to sell it. I installed the ceramic LN bearing (original bearing was in good shape) and stopped worrying about the IMS issue and started enjoying the car. I now have 64000 kilometers on it and it is an awesome car. Never tracked the car but I am sure with the locking differential, X51 engine with the steel baffles in the sump, the turbo front end, 345 HP and the same used price as a standard Carrera it would be a great choice if you want to track it. Peace of mind I just replaced the water pump (the one I removed is just like new) and the same for the expansion tank. As a side note when replacing the water pump it is easier to take the water pump out the top side when you move the engine support back a little for removal and installation of the water pump. Our longer winters in Alberta leave lots of time for tinkering and making unnecessary repairs. I am considering installing winter tires next winter as I know the car is great on snow covered roads, just not deep snow or wet slushy salt roads. Many good driving days in the winter. 2004 996 40th Anniversary Edition ID #1199

Seaflat, I recently purchased an '04 C2 cab, with 48K on the clock. A trip to our IM (PorscheDoc @ RennsportKC) revealed a leaky RMS, and an oil/air separator had been previously installed, giving an indication of some PM in the past. Since the motor was coming down anyway, we installed a Sachs clutch, in addition to the LN, ceramic, IMS bearing, and also replaced the serpentine belt. If the water pump was susceptible to failure, I'm sure Karl would have recommended that as well. (Water pump??? only cars I knew that "ate" wp's were early SBC and 80's Hondas) I was leery of the convertible (and we only have five months a year of season) but the Wifal Unit insisted, and I must admit we absolutely love it. (extra) Cabin noise does not bother me after the ignition is turned on. Our car has the Aero skirts and 18's, which I was unaware were options until after purchase, but there was something about the looks of this car that keep me coming back.

I think I am leaning towards a Targa. It seems to be the best of both worlds for me. It will have most of the convertible experience with the added safety on the track. VIR (track nearest me) said there are no restrictions on the Targas. I am assuming that means that the Targas roof support is fairly strong. I guess the side arches that run from front to back on the car on the sides act as a roll over protection? The Targas are a bit harder to find. Any targa owners out there that have any good or bad feedback? It looks like a really neat design and maintains the cool roofline of the car. It does seem odd to me that the side arches add that much stiffness to the car. I think I read that the Targa is not based on the cab with all the extra braceing but on the normal hard top.