Help....trying to decide on new car...04 or 05...c4S vs C2

hello board.....again looking for a 911...live in midwest so thought a C4S may be a good choice yet have not driven one....have driven 04 C2 and liked it...how do they compare???? well the 04C4s are out there and are available yet very alot with discounting.....everyone says arouind invoice yet their numbers do not reflect it...what should i expect or be looking for in that range??? the 05C4s are too expensive and all over optioned for me.....or should I consider a new C2 instead???? yet how do they drive in the snow and weather of the midwest plus they are the new model year too....I always have been told to beware of a new year usually have lots of early problems ....well this is my deliema....thanks for your input

I was originally looking to buy a 2003-2004 C4S, but after driving a 2005 C2 I was hooked. The 05 C2 was just MORE FUN to me. I live in California, so I don't have to worry about snow.

if ur going to be driving in snow, a C4 might be a better choice for you. A C2 with good snows will be drivble...but it will be an..er..eventful drive to say the least. if its gonna be dry weather only, i'd go for the c2.

I suppose the C4S vs C2 question will never go away. Maybe it should be in a FAQ section somewhere. There are tons of opinions in multiple often repeated threads. Do a search. Very interesting read. Be careful, though. A lot of the opinions confuse a C4 with a C4S. Between a 996 C2 and a 996 C4S (NOT C4), the choice is clear. I bought one. Aside from the listed differences, resale should also be better. They're not discounting very much on the '04 C4S, right? Between a 997 and a 996 of any form, go for the 997. Significant improvements, well worth the extra cost IMHO. Between a 997 C2S and the new 997 C4S, I have no idea. I didn't even know they already had the 997 version of the C4S. I thought they were still on the 996 C4S platform. Ask over at the 997 board, and start the NEW C2S vs C4S controversy .

I can't believe anyone would drive a relatively new Porsche in the snow. If you can't afford to have a second car for bad weather days, I don't believe Porsche is the car for you. Although I can't speak for how well a Porsche will handle in the snow since I have almost no experience driving one in the snow, I do have decades of experience observing other drivers slidding around in the snow, and I sure as hell wouldn't be driving a $80K+ car in those conditions. Even if a C4 with snows provides good snow traction, how about the guy in the adjacent lane or worse yet, how about the guy driving towards you. How can you be certain that he's driving under control in the snow.

That's one of the most asinine statements I've heard in a long time. I've been driving my Porsche's in the snow since 2001 and with over 70,000 miles on them I've never had a problem, if you normally drive like you're in a coma then perhaps you shouldn't be driving in the snow, or ever.

Summed up well Riad. the "why would you drive an expensive car in the winter" argument seems most often to be put on the table by les voyeurs of the various web sites. Probably just getting a laugh getting us going!

I was in a similar situation as yourself, i.e. looking at a previously owned C4S vs '05 C2, and ended up with a 996 40th Anniversary edition. Drove all of them, and for me the 40th Anniversary was an amazing value. More power than the '05 C2, a combo of great looks from the GT3 and C4S, limited slip differential, incredible leather interior, and great individual touches that make it unique. Drive them all and decide. And best of all anyone you pick is a great decision in itself.

The C4S is meant to be driven in ALL WEATHER, just watch out for the other aholes. Having other vehicles is not the issue for me, I still prefer the porsche all weather all the time. I didn't pay 80+k to drive a car six months out of the year.

A good set of winter tires will allow you to drive a C2 in the snow so the choice should center around you taste. Which one looks and drives better? I can't see the world through your eyes so I won't even pretend.

Right on!!!! The C4S is the best value of the lot, considering what comes "bundled" with it. Get one, drive it, and love it. It's not meant to be put in your museum!!!!

Thanks board for your great comments, is 10K off an 04 c4s too much to expect now ?????

I liked the feel of '05's, the car just felt good to drive. Then again new cars do that to me so I'm not good to listen to.

Buy whatever you like the best, these cars are just cars and are meant to be driven. I put 30,000 in the first year and i drove it in the winter.....and its a C2. I put great snow tires and rims and was pulling away from 4 X 4.I used to get what is your summer car, My anwser was " A porsche just like this one , but clean"...As long as you drive a Porsche....it doesn't matter what model..

If your looking at an '04 or '05, why don't you also consider an '01-'02 low mileage twin turbo. You get the AWD plus the additional HP and a much better engine? Just one more thing to consider.

01-02 TT. I balked at an 04 C2 and 05 997, the TT otoh is a *great* value lightly used. just make sure you get a certified car. I got a killer color combo with all int leather options for 80k. love it.

This is an opinion poll so there is no " correct answer". My neighbor has a 2004 C4S which is gorgeous of course. But, I drive my 1999 with 41,000 miles on it many more days. Every day there is no snow, chemicals, or gravel. I think the best choice for my next upgrade will be a 2 wheel drive 40th Anniversary car. Check out the ads, you can find one used for about $20-30 grand less than they were new. And, its a loaded up car with all of the right options including a semi-exclusive color. Just another opinion. Here at 4100 foot elevation next to Mt. Bachelor there is one choice for a snow car: Duramax ! , There is no substitute.

If I had it to do all over, that's what I'd do!!!!

An interesting question, and one I'm considering myself. Although for me, at this point the 2 points-de-rigeur are cabriolet and AWD. I'm left with one question in my mind at this point - and I realize that it's a question that I can only answer with some seat time (which is increasingly hard for me to get with work and family and such). That question is which can I would want "in the end". The two I'm thinking about are either a C4S Cab or a TT Cab. What I'd aprpeciate are some peoples' summary impressions on the similarities and differences between the two models. The C4S seems like the pinnacle of normally aspirated cars, while the TT seems like the pinnacle of kick-in-the-pants-with-power cars. I've never had a super- or turbo-charged car before but have had some fine examples of normally aspirated cars (Acura NSX and BMW M5). If I think I'm going to be satisfied or most happy with the C4S, I'm going to try to pick up an example with a few thousand miles. They seem to be selling for the $85K-87K range now. If I think I'm eventually going to "need" a TT to be happy, then I'll have to defer at this point since I can't justify internally the expenditure of $115K, since there are no older, more-used versions of the TT Cab since it was just introduced in '04. In this case, I'd probably look for a '99 or '00 C4 Cab to enjoy while I wait for the TT's to come down to the $85-95K range. I would guess that would be in 1 1/2 - 2 years, especially with the new 997 version coming out. Then again, I worry that if I wait 1 1/2-2 years, that the new 997 version will be out and I'll convince myself that I will want that instead and have to wait another couple of years to afford one. I'm sure many of you have worked through the same thought process in the recent past seeing how many C4S's are displayed in your sigs; can you expound on your though process in deciding on your car? Thanks, David Hwang

Thanks for all your inputs.....what does the C4S have that cost 10-15K more othewr than AWD???? and have an offer on an 04 C4S 11K off yet deaLER is out of state.....is that a big hassle or just get the local dealer to get it????

LOL!!!! Sorry, couldn't help myself. I just assumed you already knew the specifics and was just asking for opinions. OK. There are several things on the standard C4S that are not found on the standard C2. You can option out a C2 to approximate the standard features of the C4S, but it would cost more money than if you started with the C4S in the first place. Then there are other things that you cannot put on the C2, simply because it would mean doing major body and chassis work. The differences between a standard 996 C2 and a standard 996 C4S are: -AWD -wider track -wider wheels and tires -bigger brakes -stiffer suspension -stiffer chassis to go with the stiffer suspension and AWD -PSM -turbo front -wide body look/wider fenders to accomodate the wider track and wider wheels -all leather interior -300 lbs -10-15K dollars -less available in the second hand market -no 997 C4S yet -faster lap times at Nurburgring -a different driving experience. Good or bad depending on who you talk to. That's it in a nutshell. Some of them can be optioned, like you can option the M030 suspension on the C2 to approximate the C4S stiffer suspension. Others, you just can't. $11k off sounds good. Unless it's loaded with useless options that raise the MSRP abnormally high. Most options bring bupkus on the second hand market.

That is exactly what I did. I traded in my 03 C4$ for a 02 tt. Even though I originally really wanted the tt instead of the C4S because of the power (came from Z06 land), I couldn't justify the cost, and the C4S is a great car with turbo "effects". My luck was about to change...On a trip to the dealer to have routine warranty work done on the C4S...there it was...my "new" tt. The dealer just took in a 02 tt with 4500 mi, never been in the rain, plastic still on the carpet under the mats...no rock chips, nicely optioned, Polar/Grey...perfect car. The original tt owner came in for warranty work on the spoiler, he saw a new tt cab, had to have it, and bought it! Great for me! Now I have the car of my dreams, with true Z06 performance WITH AWD! (not to mention fit & finish) Sometimes the deals just happen...at least it did for me! Oh and BTW...I really enjoyed driving the car home for the first time in pouring down rain, and will continue to enjoy My All-Weather car. AWD is awesome...there IS NO Substitute!

So can you compare and contrast the two, since you've now had seat time in both as an owner? Although I'm interested in Cabs and not Coupes, I suspect the comparison would translate well. Thanks, David

Hey David! The C4S (IMHO) is a GREAT car, perfect fit & finish, style, very nice. The main difference between it anf the tt is the Hp/Tq...No Comparision what-so-ever. The C4S always left me with wanting...well, more. I have had many Vettes, the last two being an 01 & 02 Z06 (awesome car BTW), but the Porsche wins hands down over ANY Vette with the wonderful fit & finish. The tt wins over the C4S (and the Z06) with shear POWER...Ya The ride is about the same, the looks are about the same (some say nicer with the C4S...but I like the scoops), the interior is identical (almost)...BUT, did I mention the POWER...Ya If I was you...buy a used tt...there is NO Substitute!

In either case, if I got a C4S Cab or a TT Cab, it would have to be used. But the price difference is substantial. I really have to get behind a TT and see if I can justify the extra $30,000 it will cost to put on in the garage. Like you, I suspect that I'd always want the turbo if I got any other model, just because I know it's out there more than anything else. I've heard that since the turbos sit in the exhaust stream, the sound coming from the turbo cars is not as muscular as the NA versions. Is this distracting at all? Since the body, brakes, transmission, wheels/tires, etc. are supposed to be identical between the C4S and the TT, the C4S basic setup should be good to handle more power. Has anyone modded a C4S extensively to approach the power levels of the turbo (either via NA or forced induction)? David

Drive 'em all and then decide...far too many stories about people thinking they were going to buy one car and then fell in love with a different one after a test drive (including my own). As for not driving in the snow: - I might be able to afford a winter car - the expensive part is expanding the garage/driveway to make room. - Try it before you comment. My C4S with snow tires and the PSM is hands down the best car I have ever driven in the snow. - "I didn't buy it to leave in in the garage 6 months of the year" - Right on brother! Barry

My first choice would be to drop the GT3 engine in the C4S with the 01 or 02 TT as a second choice. Only becuase I drive all year round and I drive a lot in the snow and on ice packed roads and in fact I find it a lot more fun since you can drive at lower speeds and slide around corners. If AWD drive wasn't my main requirement for a car and I lived in the southern states I would buy the 997 since the 996 C4S is now dated and the 997 blows it away in about every aspect you can think off.

This is an interesting thought, and one that has crossed my mind as well. I may just wait 3 years to get the ultimate current Porsche (short of the Carrera GT, I guess) and settle for something lesser, with less financial downside, in the meantime. Something that offers all the attributes I really want, but not the big power surge of the TT -- something like a '00 C4 Cab. But I've also heard the argument that the current (996-based) TT is the final evolution of a line of cars/engines/transmissions/etc. that have been refined and improved over decades. This is contrasted with the newness of the 997 design and how it embarks on a new path with new components for Porsche -- undoubtedly to be refined themselves over many model years. Now I don't know the first thing about the subtle lineage issues with the components of the 996-based TT, or the amount of carryover the 997 components have with their predecessor, but it brings up an interesting thought -- do you want to have a product that is the end product of decades of refinements where most of the known problems have already been addresssed; or do you want the excitement of a new product with the probably downside of having design bugs pop up in hindsight as the model years progress? I went through a bit of the same dilemma (although not quite as pronounced) in choosing a 2003 M5 over a 2006 new-style M5. There is no doubt that the performance is better in the new-style M5, but looking back at the growing pains the past generation car went through in its first 2 years gives one cause to pause and reflect on whether or not the same might happen this time around as well. Something else to think about, I guess. At least tomorrow I'll be out of work early enough to try to get a drive in a couple more different flavors. David --

Some great posts and thank you for all of your thoughts....really need to test drive them again....an05C2 for about 75K Disc2K vs 04C4S 88K Disc 11K

That's a new price on the 04C4S from a dealer? Depending on options, that's pretty good. Used cars with 2-5K miles on them are going for between 85-92. I did find a silver one with 16K miles that would go for under 80K, though. That one may be gone at this point. There are two others I was seriously looking at that would go for 85-87K (the one for 87K with the power kit). But if you're getting a new car for 88K, you're doing pretty well in this market. I've heard that cars coming out of auction (although the n is very small on this particular model) are around 84-85K. Best wishes with your decision. I'm still sitting on the fence. David --

Has anyone done test drives back to back on these two cars...C2 vs C4s???

Saw a car C4S for sale yet car had been used in Porsche events 2K miles yet well discounted...should I bother????

Yup. I did. I ordered a C4S. When it arrived, there was a C2 cab in the showroom, and there was a waiting list on the C4S. Dealer offered a great deal on the C2, if I was interested. I drove both the C2 and the C4S. I bought the one I liked better in 2002. 2k miles, used in Porsche events. Do you mean PDE, or simply DE's with Porsche clubs? Not sure it would really matter, but I'm a stickler for the break-in process. Normally, used in DE would not bother me, but at 2K miles means the car was used in DE during the break-in period. Speaks of poor care of the car, IMHO.