cayman Vs 997 and Boxster

i saw somewere that cayman is faster on the ring than a 997!!!! but priced between 997 and boxster do you find this normal? years ago there were some ideas from porsche for a twin-turbo boxster S...but i heard that it wasn never competed due to marketing purposes, such as a boxster which was significantly cheaper than a 911 shouldn't be faster (which in fact seems correct to me) any thoughts?

The 911 is an entirely compromised design with the engine hung off way in the back. Only 40plus years of engineering have made it controllable, and a large part of that was to tune in understeer. Since Cayman horsepower will be very close to the 911 realm, the more neutral car will be quicker on a track, given similar tire footprint and composition. So that part is "normal" My bet is that pricing will be substantially higher than a Boxster, but only slightly lower than a 997. As more 911 models become daily cruisers, the Cayman will be the "affordable" performance car. I'm also guessing Porsche wants a large profit margin to offset decreased sales numbers soon to be caused by the very strong Euro. Based on content, the Cayman should have cost less than a Boxster. Like my beloved X50 package, Porsche charges a lot for each extra horsepower. We have accepted the 20K cost of the X50 as normal. So too is an expensive, higher-horsepower Boxster (Cayman) Right now, a novice is probably going to be faster around the track in a Boxster tip than a 6speed Carrera. That is normal. Porsche will preserve the 0-60 advantage of the 997 seemingly to justify it's higher retail cost, though I doubt the 997 is any more costly to build than a Cayman or Boxster. That we accept this pricing is abnormal. AS

<B>Right now, a novice is probably going to be faster around the track in a Boxster tip than a 6speed Carrera. That is normal. Porsche will preserve the 0-60 advantage of the 997 seemingly to justify it's higher retail cost, though I doubt the 997 is any more costly to build than a Cayman or Boxster. That we accept this pricing is abnormal. AS</B> Porsche listens to its consumers and there's no doubt that there's a need for a somewhat unrefined performance car priced below the 997. Also, Porsche does value and not cost plus pricing. So it's not unusual for Porsche to charge far more for a new offering than the small incremental cost increase would suggest. Ultimately however it's the market place and not the manufacturer that determines price.

Normal and expected. In '87, the 951 was as fast to 60 as the Carrera. There was a lot left in the engine to develop (as a trip to the 944/951/968 board will tell you) Some magazines picked the 951 as the best all around Porsche. But it was the top of the cheap line and couldn't threaten the 911. For years Rennlisters have dreamed of an inexpensive pure-performance Porsche. The rumored Cayman CS should be awesome. It will be interesting to see if it actually happens.

LOL!!!!! That's the internet for you. There have been no official times for the Cayman at the 'ring. There was one article in a European mag that said the Cayman was rumored to be faster than a 911. Which 911? 997? 996? 993? 964? 911 circa 1980's? Rumored? Is that the same as "generate enough gossip so people will talk about it" marketing? As a platform the 987/Cayman has the potential for beating the 997 in performance. In reality, there will never be a factory stock Cayman that can beat a factory stock 911 of the same generation. That's the way Porsche plans to manufacture them.

Well put Palting. I don't think PAG will release track times before they even let us see what they are talking about. Gotta love the internet and the speculation is causes.

The speculation of the Cayman running the "ring" faster comes from this article in Autoweek where: "Porsche insiders say the Cayman has already lapped the legendary 14-mile German race circuit faster than the latest 911." AUTOWEEK ARTICLE That said the article has some unique thoughts on the model designations and HP figures that no other publication seems to agree with (i.e. the base Cayman will have 295hp and an S will follow later). Of course then there is C&D that says the Cayman S will be priced above the base Carrera.

yes, we need to make a 'crack smoking' adjustment for car and driver the same mag which rated the new a6, 530 and e class lower than the respective honda/nissan/toyota counterparts in a sports sedan shoot out

given equal engines I don't think it would be surprising at all if the MR configuration turned out to quicker than a rear engine 997 around the Ring. Especially a smaller lighter MR. And there is nothing "inexpensive" about any P-car. Some are just more overpriced than others but they are all far from being the best value available to a sportscar driver. Porsche hasn't become the most profitable car company in the world because its consumers demmand as much bang for the buck as possible. $50K Boxster 987 entry level? I'm getting the impression that the Cayman will be more sportscar and less 'Cayene plush' than the ever increasingly driver input diminished 997. And those headlights on the 997/987?

I hope so

April Panorama, page 94: "Reportedly the new Cayman S can lap Nurburgring faster than the Carrera." The same article says the Cayman S will have a 305 hp 3.4, there will be a mid-level 295 hp version and an entry level model with the Boster's 3.2 engine. With 305 hp in a lighter car, the Cayman S might be close to or beat the base 997.

[QUOTE=Palting]LOL!!!!! That's the internet for you. There have been no official times for the Cayman at the 'ring. There was one article in a European mag that said the Cayman was rumored to be faster than a 911. Which 911? 997? 996? 993? 964? 911 circa 1980's? Rumored? Is that the same as "generate enough gossip so people will talk about it" marketing? I totally agree. People need to pay more attention to how they read the words. All I am seeing right now are some general comments about the car and a few pics butn no significant performance numbers to speak of. Jim

P-Car fanatic, are ther allot of Porsches rolling around Nashville?

3.4L and 305 ps reminds me 996 01 3.4L and 300ps.... any connection between the two?

I still wouldn't be surprised if a base Cayman is faster than a 997 around a road course. A lot of the rear engined car's grip comes from very soft tires- that's why they wear out so fast. With equal rubber, the lighter, better-balanced car will be quicker at the track since the lower weight offsets the hp differential on accleration, but nothing offsets the higher weight of the rear-engined car on braking and cornering. While Porsche tunes understeer into the Boxster, my opinion is that they have done that even more in the rear-engined car. Perhaps I should admit to not having driven a 997, but do have significant track time in various rear engined Porsches and the Boxster. AS

3.4L and 305 ps reminds me 996 01 3.4L and 300ps.... any connection between the two? The pre-2002 996 motor was designated the M96/01 and featured a 96 X 78mm bore and stroke which provided 3,387 ccs of displacement. Don't know if this will be the one going into the Cayman S.

No you see a few Cayennes more than anything else - bizarre considering its been out 2 years and the 911 has been out 40! I'm reasonably confident that I have the only zenith blue 996 in the state the occasional boxster is seen jetting about theres a couple of rennlisters who are based here I think porsche is not luxury enough and too stressful to drive for people in the south! (broad genralisation obviously)

P-Car, You need to get out a little more. Ever been to south Florida? You can't drive 20 miles without seeing 10 Porsches. AS

996's are like taxi, all over SF peninsula ;-)

do they have a meter as well????

Good lord. I'm shocked you're posting on a Porsche fanatics website.

harris, i did seen ONE with meter in the financial district, really. hddude, AS is speaking the truth ;-)

hddude, I'm as much a fan as anybody, having purchased 5 and currently having 2 (99Boxster tip and 02ttX50). Porsche has done a great job compensating for a design which is essentially balanced like a 3 pound sledge hammer. The back has all the momentum. The 67 Toronado had the opposite problem, but somehow Bobby Unser won Pikes Peak with it. Doesn't mean I don't love tthe 911 series. In fact, the less-engineered 964 series was a blast to drive with easily controllable off-throttle oversteer. Porsche's problem was epitomized by Ralph Nader's work. The novice driver was completely unprepared for the consequences of doing what comes naturally- taking your foot off the gas when you enter a corner too fast, and compounded by hitting the brake at that time. The expert driver could use it to tighten any turn. Porsche engineering has compensated for this by spring rates, roll rates, and much smaller front contact patch. Plus skid control. It's still a great driving car. But, if the Boxster got all of the goodies of the 996 or 997, it would be better. Case in point I previously posted. 4 years ago the local Porsche club had a driver school at Blackhawk Farms (a 1.8 mile track near Beloit Wisconsin). They accepted my 17 year old daughter in the Boxster tip. She had absolutely no track experience. At the end of the day, she was quicker than every other 911 variant out there (30 men, 9 other women- most in various 911's and a few Boxsters and 944's), leaving the car in full auto. The take home message to me was that the Boxster is far easier to get close to its limits than a 964, 993, or 996. The understeer that has been engineered in is much safer for Porsche (and for many drivers) Our cars are fun, but it takes a true expert to extract the most from them. This is exactly the opposite of an Evo 8, for example. Anybody can get into that and get it to 9/10th's almost immediately. But, no other cars have the durability, usability, quality, beauty, and visceral satisfaction of the Porsche 911 series. We live with the singular blemish, kind of like Cindy Crawford's mole. AS

What are the weight comparisons between. I know the enmotors will caruse weight difference in Cayman, but generally what are the weight per hp numbers? 997 C Boxster S Cayman

Don, I don't think there is any pulished weights yet on the Cayman. 997S is 3100# for the 6-speed (add 100# for the tip) 987S is identical

Alexander, i would like to add something here, the nature of the thread is not if an average driver i.e me, can be faster with a boxster(in this case Cayman= boxster coupe, to my opinion, for lots of reasons.....) than with a 911 (of any generation) when i first posted the thread-question i was asssuming that driver can drive-to-the-limit, both cars (cayman+997), nomatter how long it takes to learn the car. on the other hand we should always compare same driver with different cars an the same circuit.never compare different driver with same car and never-ever!!!! diff drivers with different cars on the same circuit, and in order to justify this,i will tell a story wich I lived... here in greece were i live we do have only 2 proper track fields.... one is close were i live and the total distance is 2.1 klms... the other one is far away and have never been there... years ago, porsche club italia came here to visit my country and of course the track..... one of the official instructors could easily beat 911's....with the very first Boxster 2.5......205 ps..... he managed 1:13.05......around the track, while me with my 964 approx 270ps suspension...mods exhaust etc....managed only 1:13.80..... something else too, try to drive a 911 with traction control-PSM off on circuit. time yourself. then drive the same car @ the same circuit, with traction control-PSM on. time yourself again. if there is any possibility of tracking your speed at corners you will find out that at most of them you will have higher speeds with TC-PSM on, and at the majority of them you will not be using it!!!! then take the tc-psm off and drive again. you will be passing the high speed corners with even higher speeds at those with psm on!!!!!! what i am trying to say is that confidence+fearless is the most important thing you need from the psychological point of view is that you need cars that will take your fear away and make your confidence higher, since they do not bite!!!! and boxster-prob cayman are these p-cars

actually, for the mostpart car and driver is not too far off in their reviews, at least most of the time...they do have a bias for picking the fastest car, no mat ter what what the catagory of car....actually the new acura and lexus are great cars.....