Why do people look down on the 996?

First off, this is not a troll post at all. I'm asking this as a serious question. I've been looking into 911's recently and I personally love the 996. I definitely want to buy one in the next few months, but I really don't understand why they seemed to get bashed so much? I honestly think they look better than a brand new 911. Considering you can get one now for under 20 grand, I think that's a pretty tough deal to beat.

IMS bearing + fried egg headlights. But they are the best deal on the road if you can find one with a replacement engine or IMS retrofit. Will pick up a 996 GT3 sometime later this year. GL

Because its so low to the ground?

I'm a newbie, but from I've seen, 911 enthusiasts have a serious case of "good ole days syndrome". If it's not like the good ole days, then it's bad. The 996 not only has a different body style and the dreaded non-rounded headlights (which I personally love), it was the first 911 to divert from the beloved air cooled engines. Water cooled = bad! Change = bad!

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You stole my wise crack... i'm never logging off this forum ever again

I had my '99 996 for 7 years and my 996 Turbo for nearly 2. I've never had so many positive responses on any car I've ever owned over the last 40 years or so and I've owned a lot of Vettes, Jags, MGs, BMWs real Minis, '70s and '80s Porsches and lots of British sports cars. I generally don't hang with other Porsche people though except my friends that work for the dealer. Maybe that's the difference.

I guess you need to hang out with more chicks, they don't know the difference, it's ALL 911 to them ! I own a 996 C2 and a 996 Cup and love them both, BUT you gotta admit there is nothing sexier than a 2007 GT3 RS ! Sorry.

I couldnt resist. 996 = 991 =

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I don't agree with this comment you don't need to find one with IMS done or a replacement engine. Get one with reasonably low milage in pristine shape and just get the IMS bearing done - or not - it's no big deal!! Guys who overlook the 996 (especially the turbo) are missing by far the best deal in the Porsche world - hands down -- not even close!!

If you've ever attended a PCA track event, you'll see 99% of the cars are Porsche and none of the other owners look down on any of the models. Anyway why do you give a crap what other people think of your purchase?

The 2004 GT3, also still a 996, is considered by some as one of the best Porsches built. I would love to have one. I doubt anyone that knows cars would "look down" on this one.

It was the first water cooled 911 ... so the air cooled "purists" looked down on it for that reason ...but as all the owners here know .. 1. It drives/rides better than the air cooled models, has better interior, modern safety systems (e.g. PSM) 2. OK - it does't sound the same as an air cooled - but with PSE exhaust or similar mod - it can still sound very nice 3. The water cooling is generally reliable - maybe you need to do water pump around 60Km - major reliability issue can be IMS - but this is on a small percentage of total cars (especially the very early models) - good news this is upgradeable when you do clutch for small extra cost 4. Compared to a $90K plus new 911 - you can get 90% of the performance for $20-$30K or so .... 5. DIY maintenance is possible / easy on much of the car and while not as reliable as a Honda - it beats a lot of Audi/BMW models for day to day maintenance headaches ... 6. Most chicks cannot tell the difference between a new 911 and a 10 year old one ...

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This. In reality, the reasons: front clip of a boxster first watercooled 911 pile of crap engine (non-turbo) quality issues interior that isn't exactly good (it is better than a C5)

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News to me or maybe I chose to NOT pay attention to what other people say. There will always be haters for any ANY car/model out there.

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True But well worth the money they are selling for and most people do not notice the difference. They body style is still classic and people will still talk to you more about it than any other car on the road worth 18 grand. Most will even think if taken care of....it is a 90K newer Porsche.

Now you guys know how the 928 crows used to feel for decades. The car that is superrior in every way to the old 911, and was built to replace it, was not wellcomed by the old fashionned fans and eventually it caused it's demise. Don't sweat it, those that really know cars, don't think like the "typical" 911 owner.

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The 996 was a huge departure from earlier 911s. It's the first water cooled 911, it was exactly the same as the Boxster from the doors forward, it was produced in much higher numbers than any previous 911, it was an all new design, and it helped save Porsche's *** from certain demise as did the Boxster. The snobs who bash it won't tell you that it is lighter, faster and handles better than the 993. The internet has cursed it for it's engine, but honestly, not every 3.4 or 3.6 engine has failed due to IMSB. The 996 is a bargain and for me has been totally reliable and exciting to drive.

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+996

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All true and it also has cup holders. Mods complete after one upgrades suspension, install short shift and a muffler hack. Best value for the money right now.

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I'll add to that. 996 = 991 =

The headlight thing has always baffled me. I guess it was a "same as the Boxster" thing, but this just does not make sense. NOT Cool Headlights: Cool Headlights:

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the completely different engine might have something to do with it. better interior how? certainly not materials or assembly quality. design is subjective. you seem like the type of guy who cares what chicks think about your 911

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trying pretty hard to convince yourself huh

the Porsche rep was at a meeting I attended recently - his comments were that Porsche is developing the Cayman as the sports car and the 991 (911) will be the grand touring car so that ends the 911's life as a sports car - any minute your cars will double in value even if they are ugly (kidding!) but as stated above, the reasons are clear - so, big deal,...you got a $100k car for $25k as a result of it SMILE and drive the wheels off it

People don't like change and I think this is a new generation phenomenon. Look at these other Porsche problem cars: '65 � It�s not a 356! The handling is horrible. Porsche added sway bars and increased displacement and the line ended up in 73 with a classic car '74 � 'Mid-year' 2.7 engine was a POS for the street, many issues with the al/mag parts, overheating/lots of oil leaks. Engine improvements lead to the classic SCs and Carreras, but the the chassis design was the same for 16 years '90 � �Head gasket� issues, lead to oil leaks and a lot of warranty work. Fixed by 92 '99 � WTF it�s water cooled? IMS will affect every car! The Sky is falling! Over time people forget these issues and move on. It's funny because I have owned a Mid-year, a 90, and now a 99. I guess I'm just a glutton for punishment. Even after owning these cars, I still love the marque and don't talk down about these models.

For me, being a lifelong Porsche fan, the departure from round headlights was huge. I could never learn to accept that change. Beyond that, I was ok with the car. All that I've driven (C2S and TT) were great cars and a blast to drive. But for me, I prefer 911's with round head lights.

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The 996 has modern headlights. Every other Porsche model has went modern. I have no idea why they went back to 60's era head lights. It will be the one design flaw that holds the new 911's from ever really becoming modern like other car manufactures are doing.

I disagree with the very premise of the question. First, I have never had any sense from a fellow Porsche owner that the 996 is somehow any less of a 911 than any other. And who doesn't lust after the classic beauty of the original cars? That doesn't make us think a more modern car is less attractive. As for the casual observer, the non-Porsche owner; all anybody sees is my beautiful red Porsche, they don't know one from the other. Many probably wonder how I could afford such an expensive sports car.

the 997.2 headlights are a hit for me - those cars have it all looks, power, comfort, control since I cant afford one....i'm going to keep my old 3.2 which has something the new cars will never have - a funny smell

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easy there buddy - that's not even a propper RED - I mean it's like, well...not red

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Orient RED Metallic... I'm claiming red.

here's the trouble with the foo foo red - I cannot walk up to you and say yuk......who would buy such an ugly color on such a beautiful car like I can do with the Guards RED cars to which the owner would say, what color is yours, and I say - the same color but if I did that with this oreintal red thing, the owner might not get the joke - see the conflict here its all about me!! (I hope the humor is coming through and you "get" that I am joking)

Slab sided. No swollen rear end. Pinky Lai, the wind tunnel designer went for top speed (174 mph) and in doing so, he got rid of the nice looking sexy rear quarter panels. That is my only complaint. I like the headlights and so far I am not one of the 5% who will have IMS/RMS issues.

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fixed

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I have to say the 997 GT3 is one of the sexiest cars out there. If it had a back seat I would sell off what I need to in order to get one. As for the smell on the new cars, mine has a smell - but maybe that's not the smell you're talking about!

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Nope. I am one of those crazy internet people who take everything seriously and go postal at the slightest provocation. That's me knocking at your front door...

hold on, someone's at the door BRB

The ONLY place I ever see anyone "look down" on the 996 is on internet forums. Never in person. My guess is that most people who look down on them have never driven a 996. I think the 996 looks great, and I don't give a sh*t what other people think. I didn't buy mine to impress anybody or to gain some kind of "approval". It puts a smile on my face every time I see it and especially every time I drive it. That being said, I think the new 991 looks great too. I would love to own one someday.

Remember when the 964 was the red headed stepchild of the 911 family, funny how they are now getting more and more sought after. And prices are rising especially the RS which is now super collectable. Do you think the 996 will go through the same cycle and be appreciated at some stage?, feel like pricing on the 996 has improved a little in the last 12 months, if not improved then they are no longer dropping.

I bought a 996 because I knew it would need more repairs than any other model thus giving me the most amount of fun owning it! But,,, the most looked down on is probably the 944 and maybe 928. Those prices are rock bottom even though some are nice cars and I wouldnt mind having either as an extra Porsche.

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Ain't that the truth! Hope I didn't jinx my OEM IMSB.....

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If you'd just stop letting your dogs sleep in the car overnight.... ahem.... The 996 was considered a travesty by purists when it first was introduced ("Purist" = someone who spent years defending the design of the car as it was). They looked at it under a microscope to find every possible flaw....which they tended to repeat loudly and often. (Yet....it couldn't have been so awful if you consider the number that were sold. So, in many ways, this is a myth. If it were really so bad, almost none would have sold and there would have been a radical, sudden rework.) The real problem with the 996 at This Time is that (like virtually every car before it)...it is a model that isn't old enough to be cool or interesting; it's not new enough to be cool. Patience, Grasshopper. Wait enough years and these will be interesting again. It starts as it does now, with people starting to realize that its performance is about the same as the newer (much more expensive cars) at a much better price. As time goes on, it will be seen for what it is: the landmark vehicle that allowed the 911 to have greater power, better mileage, better performance, comply with evolving emission standards....and saved the company....and the perceived value will rise along with the price. Impossible? I bought a '66 275GTS Ferrari when it was "uncool" in '72 for $7,000. What is the price now? A '59 MGA for $75 (no missing zeros) -- now about $25-$30k. A '65 Austin Healy 3000 MkIII for $1800 -- now $26-$50k. Look at what Piece-Of-Crap '60's Chevy Novas, etc., are going for at the auctions. Just takes time. Yes...there were a lot of these made. But the number of unadulterated, stock cars in good condition is shrinking. Keep Modding young friends.

The thing that will prevent the 996 from being collectable is the sheer volume of cars that were produced. The more unusual variants like the GT3, GT2 and Turbo S have a shot at collectability, but I think that's about it. Who knows though... the 914 and the 924 used to be frowned upon, now they are coming into their own in the used Porsche market...

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Porsche produced more 997 units than 996. I predict long term continued depreciation.

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By they way Imo000, how's the beast running after that fantastic rebuild? All ok?

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might I suggest actual driving then to increase the rate of FUN fixed

Ivan, if you keep "fixing" our posts your gonna get us in even more trouble.

As they become cheaper to buy they attract more people who can afford the buy-in but not the maintenance, it can become a downward spiral. 914/924/944/928 - All at one time or another had plenty of clapped out heaps on the roads, those end up going to the crusher when something major fails or they get into (another) fender bender. As a result the remaining population dwindles and all of a sudden people realize they are getting kind of rare and the good ones start to increase in value. 964 - Relatively limited production numbers; but some well publicized early problems (likely resolved on every car still out there, which people are beginning to realize) saw values go down a lot but now increasing over the last few years as the shape is beginning to be considered classic with modern touches (original shape, integrated bumpers etc). 993 - As the last of the air-cooled's which became common knowledge somewhere around the middle of the production run, there was always a following, never letting values decrease as much on a percentage basis as the cars before and after. 986/996 - Well-publicized (and overblown IMO) potential issues (widespread awareness mainly due to the internet age and increased information accessibility) and large production numbers along with Porsche aggressively offering lease deals saw values go down into the range where "everyman" could again afford the buy-in but not necessarily the upkeep. We ARE now seeing some clapped out heaps driving around, especially in population centers where there was a large volume sold. Still many more very nice examples but the bad ones ARE out there. Eventually (sooner rather than later) those will be weeded out and the performance vs. cost ratio will build the values back up. Due to production volume this will take longer, but we tell everyone on here who is looking for a car to take your time, the good one is out there, there are a lot of them and don't bother with the others. We can say that because it is true due to the numbers sold. If on the other hand, you're looking for a Donohue-driven 917, well, if that's what you want for your collection and someone is selling one, you'd better go get a bidder card now and buy it almost regardless of condition as the chances are few and far between.... 997 - Values are probably a bit higher than they should be as they are looked on as the "not a 996" car but in reality are very similar especially the engine. As this gets realized more and there are more 991's out there as the "New/Current" car, this will start to depress their values a bit more. Bottom line is as far as Performance / Value / Usability / Cost of Ownership / DIY Maintainability of all the 911 series the 996 offers by far the best ratio and this will likely continue. Values can increase a lot and this would still hold true overall.

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I was reading a book the other day about the whole Boxster/996 development. Apparently Porsche was in such dire straits financially that the bean counter in charge of the new cars refused to allow the 996 to have "non-Boxster" headlights. The compromise was to give the 996 a different bumper. Right before the fried eggs were first unveiled on the Boxster many were wondering if this would be the last car show for Porsche under its own independent ownership. Toyota was lurking for a bargain. Immediately after the launch of the Boxster Porsche started receiving deposits from buyers which meant that the Boxster had to go into production ASAP for 1996 (in Europe, 1997 in the USA) to save the company and could not be delayed until 1999 when the 996 would be launched. The timing of that meant that the 'purist' crowd would ridicule the first water-cooled Porsche for taking everything from the doors to the front bumper and including the interior from the less expensive Boxster. Ironic thing is that if you randomly pulled a part off the Boxster you're more likely to be holding a part # that starts with a 996 than 986. But circumstance meant that the Boxster go to the red carpet first. When funds weren't as tight at Porsche they allowed plans for the 996 to get the Turbo headlights. p.s. as far as depreciation. The 997 and 991 (with round headlights) will lose value no differently than the 996 has. $20K will get you which ever water-cooled Porsche you desire as long as you're okay with waiting. Not sure that those early 911's and 964's will ever come down though. If I was looking for a third car that saw little mileage annually I wouldn't think twice about buying an air-cooled Porsche.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this. I think a big reason is the fact that the 996 911 has a wet sump engine (except the GT3 & Turbo). 911's of the past were dry sump. It's not a 911 designed to take to the track. Oil starvation is a problem, even on street tires if you are a good driver. The car is a street car by design.

Im impressed. A newbie actually gets it. 100% correct. BTY welcome to the forum.

plant

I for one want it both ways. After getting my 03 for a great price, I now want the resale value to sky rocket.

Excuse me, Sir, Walter Rohrl, but are you THE Walter Rohrl?! You Tube You dont seem to sad on the official 996 C4S Commercial ;-) Actually, this clip was inspiering me to get a 996 Carrera 4S... Sorry for the OT, feeling kind of Starstruck...! /Gladestone

speaking of the real Walter Rohrl. He was once asked to put together a top 10 list of Carreras he'd driven. The entire 996 line up was conspicously absent from the list. And it wasn't just a water-cooled bias, he did include some of the 997 Carreras.

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most air-cooled 911's sold never made to the track nor autocross. If anything, more water-cooled 911's were driven in their native settings. So once again... there's romantic myth and then there's the practical reality.

great video. I really love the lights, that was cool when they broke out of the ice.

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Most 964 issues have been sorted by owners now thus the reason for the value stabilization and further appreciation. Last sentence is incorrect. Simple economics will tell you that value can only increase if demand outstrips supply. This will never be the case for regular 996s and 997s. Competition for weekend DE cars are fierce with plenty of options. Accusump is $500 installed. Problem solved.

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944 production numbers in a span of 10 years is similar to 996 production numbers. How much are 944s trading at today without the pressure of a higher production number 997 following closely behind?

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There are several 996s being raced regularly by Rennlist contributors who would disagree with your conclusions about racing our modified 996s. Hopefully they'll chime in on the subject.

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Myth or reality? The reality is that the oil starvation issues are fact. Just because more water cooled 911's were driven in their "native environment" doesn't mean they were meant for it. Way too many threads with "Why is my oil pressure at 2 bar around turns on the track?" From a design perspective, it's clear they weren't meant to handle track duty in stock form. GT2/3 and turbo being a different story. Now we are talking aftermarket modifications?..... Ok...

Kind of disappointed you where a Walter Rohrl - freud. But no worrys. This is a old clip, 996 was Tiff Nidells favorite choise: You Tube

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Even Carrera GTs get modified. What is your point?

Im late to the party but i own a 996 and i look down on it because its not my "dream" 911. I do fall in love with it repeatedly every month especially when i take her to the track. I worked around the fried eggs and as for the IMS/RMS failure, i have that replaced at 48K and did not have any issues prior to the service. The only mechanical failure I am having is the secondary air pump and its has caused me to replace my cats TWICE. Thanks to my factory emissions warranty (good thru 06/2013), I did not have to shell out bigs bucks. Anyways, here is a couple pictures of my bucket at the Ridge Motorsports Park on on 12/29/13 Saturday:

^^^^ Thats a great car - and a really good driver! (nice guy to boot....even let me drive his bucket around the track) HI! that car makes me miss my old one - it's really fun to drive too!

Pressure plates and coolant fittings have been a problem on GT3s and RSssss. No car is immune to track abuse. Ive stayed away from the threads lately because of all the whining. Men please step away from the keyboards and go drive the **** out of your cars. Do not save them for the next guy. These 996s are able to cope with a lot of abuse. Some break others dont. So what?? My car has been tracked since I bought it. After 25,000 miles of enjoying my car I was forced to rebuild the engine and I did so with a 3.8 rebore plus plenty of other track oriented modifications. Guess what, if my engine blows I can and will rebuild it again! If you cannot stomach/afford to repair an 80,000 car you bought for 25-30K then a 996 is not for you.... Period

next time out - I'll take you around in my rattle can.....

"...Anyways, here is a couple pictures of my bucket at the Ridge Motorsports Park on on 12/29/13 Saturday" I thought only Deloreans could do that?

He's just THAT good

You know its weird you said that about tracking. I find its more fun to work on my car than drive it.

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Sorry, I meant my comment to be read another way. I meant not that the value WILL increase a lot, but rather that even IF THE VALUES DOES increase the Value / Performance etc Ratio compared to the other cars will still be greater. Moreover, any increase would not be in a vacuum, the other cars would probably increase at a faster/greater rate. I am not forecasting an imminent huge increase in value in the near-term future.

Thats because you have yet to drive it right - that's when it all changes - I suggest NOT learning to drive, it's a LOT cheaper and as you say - its more fun (for the rest of you, KK knows I am joking - geez lighten up!)

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the fact that more water cooled 911 have been tracked means they were designed to be easily modified for that particular demand. But Porsche didn't bother because their typical 911 customer goes nowhere near the track. And if the engine does blow up, 1-800 996 Crate Engine gets you back on the track before that 993 engine rebuild is even finished. And at a wee bit of a discount to boot.

I had a 2000 C4 for a number of years. I got more comments and looks in that car than any other car i've owned. Most people were shocked when they found out it was almost 12 years old. Some day soon maybe I'll get another.... Right now I'm having fun with my Boxster S. Its kinda nice driving around without getting all the attention....

You think that 996s are looked down on, try owning a 986 Boxster. Love my Boxster, but if anything happens to it I'll be shopping for an '04 or '05 996tt cab.

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+1!

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Runs fantastic, drive it when there is no snow on the road but it is alot slower than my boosted 928.

I love the smooth, flowing design of the 996, modern, sleek, still obviously a Porsche and doesn't evoke the "oh look, you took your wife's car today" that some other models MAY have had a reputation for. Besides, the prices of them now? You can pick up a real nice one, get the IMS "fix" if it bugs you and you will be still be well under the price of a well sorted G-50 911 3.2 (which I must admit, I still MUST own one of these days). I don't think we've completely seen the bottom of the 996 prices - but it has levelled off quite a bit in last few years. If they DO go the way of 994 turbo prices, great for people wanting to get into an amazing machine I guess. Hey, if you get any slack for owning a 996 by a purist, just say one magic word, and they'll forget all about you and your 996 ---- That word of course is ----- Cayenne...

To worry about the headlights is beyond me. Mustang changed from a foxbody to the typical hard to tell it's a mustang modern look. That I fully understand as far as bias. But headlights? I actually was going to ask if there was something against my 997 because most of these great threads and advice center around the 996. I thought I had gotten something not desired. I know the very first edition of the 996 had issues with the changeover to watercooled, but that was quickly fixed with the first editions and the following ones were fine. I read that the very first 996 had some cheap parts and interior work but I can't verify that. I did read from owners of the second and then on versions which were fine. So based on hearsay and such you might question the very very very first 996's but I have read nothing negative about anything after that. I had maintained a 1965 VW convertible bug my dad bought new which was about to be trashed until I took it. The air cooled engine is a wonderful thing but has inherent issues and maintenance problems. Actually I had no maintenance issues, but that is because I had to tune the valves once a month and learn to become my own basic mechanic. Maybe that's where some people get the concept that porsche was an expensive high maintenance car. Having a water cooled engine gives you much more pluses than minuses. I chose to get the newer one because I don't have the time to tune an air cooled engine like I used to in college. I know a bug is not a porsche but the similarities in maintenance regarding air cooled engines remains the same. But......having properly tuned my valves, timing, distributer points, etc gave me the best sounding and driving car experience I ever had other than my present Porsche. That even beats out the mustang I've had for almost 17 years.

I actually really like the look of the V2 996 lights - they lookeven better in person IMO!!

This is the real answer ... the 996 has a face only Sally could luv ...

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basing your judgment of air cooled porsches on a 1965 volkswagen is like judging your dentist on how ell he performs knee surgery. A 993 requires no valve adjustments nor anything other than standard vehicular maintenance (oil changes, filters, fluids, plugs, etc).

The people who look down on 996's, either have never driven them, or don;t know a great car if it bit them in the bum.. Big turkeys

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uh, those are the only reasons why someone could not like a 996? Maybe they don't like the looks, or the interior, or the weight distribution, or the small backseats, or any number of things. its possible you might be the turkey.

I have both a 996 and 997. If I compare the base car, I think the 997 is better looking because it is a modern version of the classic 911 both inside and out. Some people really struggle with interior and the headlights of the 996. For me a lowered 996 with an aerokit is really tough to beat in terms of looks and I actually believe the fried egg look actually enhance the overall package. With that being said. Nothing beats a 997.2 GT3 RS. I have attached a pic of the nose of both my cars....I think the 996 looks great!

when is that yellow beast going to be back on track ? I have a call in to Tom for another track day...its been almost a week...need my fix

I think most of the criticism comes from insecure folks who need to feel better about their own choices. Some just try to pee on the legs of others. I don't think much about it.

I have never heard any criticism, except on this forum. For 99.8% of people it is simply a Porsche, made from diamonds and gold and impossibly expensive and unobtainable. The other .2 can kiss my ***. I was tooling around yesterday in my new project car, a red '87 924S - without a doubt the most unloved of all Porsches. I got two thumbs up from other drivers.

Mk1 Aero is still the best looking water-cooled 911.

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+996....btw you have a present at your shop.

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I agree and miss mine all the time.

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Where are you finding this price?

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Parts cost $350. You can DIY it for free labor... http://www.lnengineering.com/accusump.html

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The LN site only lists the kit for $1400 as far as I can tell. I guess you can piece it together if you're resourceful. I see universal Accusump part for under $200 in several places. Don't really know which one we would need though for our cars since there are quite a few different models out there.

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Yea, except when you have your foot in the Turbo Chao.

Some little mods...some new upgrade tails....some old style fender guards, and some new twist to turbo rims and all is good for me. Everyone still knows it is a Porsche 911. Not the fastest thing on the road, just a nice and simple 911.....like I said, best bang for the buck on a 911. In guards red, still gets tons of looks and like I said....people still think it is a new car after now being 13 years old!!!!!!!!!

This is the "old school" version from when I was a kid. Yes, they are a PITA. Only @$150 or so. Open valve to prelube while starting, or before race, then leave open. Close valve, kill engine. Repeat. These were really more suited for race boats where you just reach behind you for access. (my old hobby) Hondo runner bottom V-drive 476 BB Chevy, Merlin heads, steel crank, 4 bolt, dual plate nitrous, @114 mph in 1/4, which feels fast on water. Electric valve is much better for cars. Its not hard to DIY but not practical or needed for street use.

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I'm gonna play devils advocate and argue with you. I would say it could be beneficial for street use for those that are KRAZY enough to obsess over a certain oil and want to have their engines last forever as this will provide prelube before the engine starting. As they say the most wear can occur at startup for those first few seconds...

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I have a few mods to do this off season including sport cats...then I will be ready

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I have to agree....there is something about the overall car that makes it look great even when looking at the controversial front. The slope of the nose looks great.

Ive been awol for quite some time... and I see the board hasn't changed a bit. The internet has changed the way people look at cars now... I remember when the R8 came out and I thought... wow! But now, not so much because there are so many cool cars coming out. Competition is fiercer than ever. But as far as the 996 is concerned, I suspect that it may have the same fate as the 944... It will continue to be on the road and on the track because of its value and easy maintenance.... it really is a great car that talks to you if you push it hard, I suggest the track is by far the biggest smile you can have with the 996. But on the streets the feedback is just OK. When I first saw the 6Gt3.1 I thought wow... and till this day I still say the same... I wish I had one, but I went with the next best thing and with mods, it come pretty close. BTW Chao, have you learned to drive that beast yet? I say.... Gt2 conversion is in order. here's a butt shot... cant believe the modern 911 is 13 years old already.

Quotes source post: 10174251

I coudn't agree more HI FERD!!!!

I know you like Gt2 parts Ed.

I don't think anybody outside of the Porsche click realy cares, I pulled up at the gas station the other day and 2 young guys and there girl friends get out of there car walk over and start complimenting me on the 996 they, just cared it was a Porsche thy had no idea it was 12 years old until I told them.

I get positive comments all of the time on my 10 year old 996. The average person still thinks it is an "almost new" 911. I always correct them when asked and the usual discussion revolves around using it as both a family daily-driver and an occasional track car. On an unrelated note, has anyone ever seen a sunshade that looks like the picture below? My boys would absolutely love it and it would get a good laugh when I take family for a beach day. [/QUOTE]

Hey Ferd Happy New Year! Long Time... I put about 3K miles on the TT last year so not a lot of time behind the wheel. The 993 is more raw and more notciable with its shorter wheelbase. I found out that it can be a handful on wet roads with leaves on the ground. 996s are much more forgiving and handles better. It is just a much easier car to drive. There will be mods here and there because I am still enjoying the car as is. I am going to take my time as this is more car than I am a driver for a while. If I decide to throw ridiculous money at it, it will probably get sent to RUF in Germany and then be done with it. Put your 86 Targa together yet? I am itching for a ride..

yeah, you need alot of seat time in that car... but when you do get to drive it well, I rather just sit in the passenger seat. As for the Targa... yeah she's almost put together..... one day.

@ Kgoertz, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cars+movie+sun+shade Amazon.com

Nice pics Ferd. Stop working so much on your targa and visit Rennlist a little more.

Hey Ferd, whats the plans for the Targa?

Quotes source post: 10178145

I hear ya Steve, been on Pelican lately... those guys are cult status. Its nice in warm in the 996 forum. Whats up Marc, Nothing fancy, keeping engine stock, pulled the AC out . Total refresh with ER bits here and there, brand new suspension, turbo rods... etc. All new seals, interior... wanna help install the targa glass? Down to the metal repaint, stock color (meteor gray). My kids call it my "lego" set.

Quotes source post: 10175072

http://www.wilcodirect.co.uk/index.p...oducts_id=2126

lol. Thanks roadsession. Although my wife just informed that the movie Cars is really history and it would make my car look too dated. I guess I'll have to order a set of Dectane tail lights and make my 996 look a little more like a 997 :-)

The targa is coming together with ducktail. Looking good..

Your engine is spotless Fred, looks very nice and tidy.

I meant Ferd nor Fred.

I have an '03 Targa, and, while I'm not normally much of a fan of non-OEM exterior appointments, I installed Dectane, 997-style LED taillights last summer, and, along with LED brake lights, it really updates the look of the car. In fact, as I was leaving the Post Office today, a guy ran across the parking lot and motioned me to roll down my window. He asked, "Is this an '09 or '10?" I smiled and said, " It's an '03." He was shocked and asked, "Just how much work did you put into this car?" He couldn't believe that it was simply the 997-style taillights that were throwing him. These 996 cars still have the Porsche DNA. Of course, he then proceeded to warn me about IMS issues, which I obviously know all about, but I got a kick out of the fact that someone who seemed to know a reasonable amount about Porsches didn't realize that it was an old 996, at least from seeing its side and rear. The 996 II headlights probably would have given it away, had he viewed the car from the front, but I think they look contemporary in their own right.

I have never had anyone in person say anything about un-complimentary about my car. Douchebags on forums are where our cars are looked down upon, and I don't really give a rat's azz about what the Internet thinks. Despite the horror of the non-ovoid headlights and the sheer audacity to make a 911 with a cooling system more sophisticated than a lawn mower, I think the 996 is an awesome car. I would not cross the street to pee on one of its detractors if they were on fire. /thread

Well, those that buy one now can surely benefit from the low cost to get into a 996 -

they look down on it because it sits so low to the ground....lol

Because its so low to the ground? Sorry bro but thats a re-run from post #3 on page 1. At least read the whole thread if your gonna make a joke, jeez.

Take a look to the left <<<<< That...is a thing of beauty!

996 is when I fell in love with the 911, they didnt interest me before that. I'm about to take the plunge on a 996 turbo and I couldnt be more excited

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120304002448/disney/images/d/d9/Sally-disney-cars-plush-toy.jpg