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YOUR RESEARCHCadillac Dealer Selling an Early 996 - Advice?
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Anyway, I have unlimited carfax checks until early May so I ran the VIN for you:
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Use )....great sound system....remote start (so the interior is cool
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cool air up your butt seats....perfect in southern california.....nav system (the best I have ever used)....great sound system....remote start (so the interior is cool when you step in).....and 8 seater.
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It's much easier and smarter for a high-end dealer to take a questionable car that they took on trade to the auction, that's were the straight used car lots get their cars...that’s why you need to be careful buying a car off a used car lot.
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In pure cash terms a lot of dealers make more money off of used cars.
Use )....great sound system....remote start (so the interior is cool
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cool air up your butt seats....perfect in southern california.....nav system (the best I have ever used)....great sound system....remote start (so the interior is cool when you step in).....and 8 seater.
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It's much easier and smarter for a high-end dealer to take a questionable car that they took on trade to the auction, that's were the straight used car lots get their cars...that’s why you need to be careful buying a car off a used car lot.
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Hello Everyone! I think I have my wife on board with trading in (or selling) her 2007 Honda Civic Si Sedan for a 996 we will share (sometimes, anyway). I found the following 1999 996 with 63K on it at the following Cadillac Dealer about three hours from my house:
http://www.donmasseycadillac.com/use...seHistory=true
My question is, could it be worth exploring? Would everyone agree I should find an independent import shop nearby to do a PPI? If the maintenance records are limited but the PPI checks out, does the price seem reasonable from what all of you can tell? What are some potential problems that could get me on this one given the mileage? I love the buyers guide listed in this forum!
If anyone has any midwestern search ideas other than craigslist, I'd love to hear about them.
Thanks for all your help!!
John
No matter what, if you move forward - do a PPI.
I just purchased a CPO'd 996 from a dealer and I had a CPO done to it. They found a couple of minor issues, nothing to stop me from buying the car, but issues none the less.
Get the VIN - go to your local Porsche dealership, and ask the service manager (nicely) to pull the
warranty
service records for the car - that should be informative.
Also carfax etc etc to see what history it has.
As a '99, it may have had a new engine already - worth checking out
PPI useful - but they can't perform magic - they can only tell you the obvious visible stuff
Being a '99 it has 'features' that were later designed out of the car - mileage is no guarantee that things will or won't go wrong around these features.
Search here for porous block, slipped cylinder linings, cracked head, RMS failure, IMS failure, failed 2nd gear, engine failure/replacement, coolant tank failure, coolant cap replacement, failed ignition switch.
Plenty of '99s with many more miles still on the road, so do your research and go at it as an informed buyer.
Best of luck.
Useful links:
http://www.autofarm.co.uk/pdf/Total911_July06.pdf
http://industryfigure.com/berkeley/P...tionswitch.htm
http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...e=post&id=3223
http://www.autofarm.co.uk/engines/wa...led/shaft_tech
That color may be a hard sell. I would ask the dealer to see what he paid for the car. He is entitled to make some money but it is possible he took that car in for less than $20,000. Normally a non-Porsche dealer only offers wholesale auction prices on a trade and that car might be down on the low end for auction. There is nothing special about it. Of course a non-special Porsche is still more special then most other cars.
Is the dealer offering any warranty? I would expect he might give you at least 30 days on the engine and powertrain. Most likely though he will only guarantee it passes a state inspection.
Basically if you can figure out what he paid for the car, you can figure out what he did to get the car ready to sell and then figure how much profit he deserves. I doubt if they did anything to the car other than wash and wax it. Unless you have maintenance records you will be forced to do the 60,000 mile service which might set you back a bit. Figure that into the equation.
It’s my opinion that buying a used car from a reputable high-end dealer WHO TOOK THE CAR IN ON A TRADE is not all that bad. It's much easier and smarter for a high-end dealer to take a questionable car that they took on trade to the auction, that's were the straight used car lots get their cars...that’s why you need to be careful buying a car off a used car lot.
High end dealers also buy cars at auction to display in their showrooms - specifically to give potential buyers the impression that 'people trade is Porsches to buy Cadillacs'.....
It's a common practice, and something to be aware of.
What matters is what he will sell it for- period! If he paid to much and wants to unload it as old stock and make nothing would you believe him? If he stole it and wants to get market value for the car he should. If you got a car for free would you let it go for free? This idea always amazes me- working from cost is something for new cars not used ones. All that matters is that you pay what it is worth to you.
Car looks nice. That color looks nicer in better light, but kind of a luxury car color if that makes any sense.
The previous idea around the 60k service is good, at least as negotiating point. (No records, then deduct $1,000 or something.) That's already a reasonable price, but in this economy you can negotiiate a lot more.
btw, you should add your location to your profile so folks can recommend local ideas. GL.
In pure cash terms a lot of dealers make more money off of used cars. It is possible the dealer could have only paid as low as $18,000 on a trade for that car. He marks it up $7,000 after washing it. I traded a VW new beatle for $6,000 for my Honda and a week later it is sitting on the Honda lot for $11,000. I know all he did was wash and wax it. He probably ended up selling it for $8000, so someone thought they knocked him down $3000, but in reality they paid for a $1500 wash and wax ( pure profit) and $500 in adminisrative costs.
My bet is this dealer took this Porsche in for about $20,000. That is where I would start negotiating. What is important is to understand is what the dealer should have paid for the car. I agree that if the dealer paid too much, it will be hard to get them down. But then why should you overpay because they did?
I don't understand why you would not want to try to establish cost to always get the best deal. But trust me, when I go to sell my car I will want to find a buyer who thinks emotionally rather than one who is going to pin me down on all of the facts. Dealers know Porsches are usually an emotional buy and they mark them up accordingly. But when armed with the facts you can always get some great deals.
Interesting perspective.
To the OP, that price is really cheap IMO. If it checks out, I would go for it. I would do it before the wifey changes her mind......
Have you seen that color in person? Not to offend anyone here, but the color might stop you from moving forward. If it doesn't don't let them know. Tell them that the color is really holding you back and then let the dollars start dropping.
Its worth what your willing to pay, The color is awfull...If you like it and it checks out OK who cares what we think. Its used and no matter how good the report comes back,its always a gamble. seems pretty cheap to me.
Don't kid yourself. Even a Porsche dealer is not above doing the old turn-and-burn with a car they themselves sold new and serviced, but which is not necessarily a sterling example of the marque. Ask me how I know.
Ugh, I don't know how you let yourself do that, Nicolaas. If I needed to drive a "larger" vehicle and I walked out to the driveway and found an X5 and an Escalade sitting there, I know which one I'd be getting in!
I am not shi..ing you I went for a bling bling escalade...with the chrome 22" (not spinners,,sorrry)
The X5 lease was up and although it is a perfect driving machine...it can't be used as a full family car..when the oldies are visiting they have to sit on each others lap and when the baby stroller sits in the trunk the grocery shopping has to be postponed.
So I went and the gadgets sold me... cool air up your butt seats....perfect in southern california.....nav system (the best I have ever used)....great sound system....remote start (so the interior is cool when you step in).....and 8 seater.
For the cons: quality SUCKS!! (this all compared to german cars, because I have nothing else to compare it to).... handling is only SO SO...drives kind of like a bus....onstar is a joke......no bluetooth......too expensive for a chevy tahoe in a smoking jacket.
BUT... I love the pimpin' part..never thought I would like all that chrome..but I really do.
And I love the 10 Mile to the gallon part....you got to spend your money on something!LOL
isn't it sad!!! I am European (from the Netherlands)....my parents drive an 3 series and that size is considered pretty big...they think my X5 is huge.....but then again in the US you buy a gallon of milk or gas in Holland you buy a liter of milk or gas (and you pay 3 bucks a liter!! for gas that is about 11 bucks a gallon..and we are complaining!
To be honest the size is important for my business and to pull my trailer with equipment.
Judge the car on its own merits; results of the PPI, number of owners, condition when viewed in person, etc. From a reliability standpoint, I don't believe that it matters whether it was traded in or purchased at auction. Is one necessarily better than the other? As for the color, that's up to you for you to decide. FWIW, I've seen the color in passing and I think I like it.
I've never insisted on seeing a dealer's cost on a used car. I can only assume that you would need information on the dealer's operating costs before you could possibly begin calculate their "profit" on a particular automobile.
don't know if you went and saw it, but i live near there. i can take a look if you don't want to drive the 3 hours. also for $150 or so you can get a PPI from an independent in the area:
http://gilsonmotorsports.com/
I was considering buying that car, and I spoke to Rich at Don Massey a few times. Personally, I *think*I like that color, but I've never seen one in person, so who knows.
The carfax checked out fine, and the dealership called me for follow-ups and seemed honest. I passed on the car because I found a car with low mileage + new clutch, which is huge for me.
Their price is certainly right!
I would consider that color as a liability when the time comes to sell the car, and the time will come, because your first 911 is only the start of others to follow. You will want another, newer, faster, better 911 and will be hard pressed to sell that car with all of the early 996's on the market. There is just way too many cars to choose from to settle for a car that has questionable history and a color that will make many prospective buyers walk away. Look for another car that has something special about it, you will glad you did.
My small-sample-size anecdotal experience leads to the following general ranking of preference when buying a used car.
Friend or family
New car dealership with a used car department
Private owner
Used car dealer
Guy who approaches me in shopping mall parking lot
Trade-ins versus auction? I think it means very little since a lot of dealers might take in a Porsche to make a sale but know they're going to have to flip it at auction because there's no market for the car at their dealership.
Anyway, I have unlimited carfax checks until early May so I ran the VIN for you:
The car appears to have had 4 owners and to have originally been from Texas. The second owner moved the car from Texas to Michigan.
The car was sold to the third owner in November of 2006 then was listed as "Dealer Inventory" in Plymouth in January of 2008. It was then (apparently) sold again in February 2008.
I'd consider it a little odd that the last two owners had the car for 14 months and 2 months respectively, but the 4th owner might actually be the dealership that's currently selling it. It's hard to tell because the car is listed as in dealer inventory almost 2 months before it's listed as registered to a new owner.
Other than that the only thing I can say is that the records are pretty sparse so I don't think the car was serviced at a Porsche dealership.
No record of accidents or major service, but then again there's almost no records at all so that doesn't mean much.
If you're still interested, and I have to say the price certainly is tempting, have the car taken to a Porsche mechanic for a pre-purchase inspection. It'll cost $200-$300 dollars. Ask the guys here on the forum for a recommendation of a good place to get the PPI done in the Plymouth area (I think at least one poster already suggested a place)
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