EVO Stage1 power upgrade

Anyone have this? If so, did you do a dyno run before and after? I'm skeptical that a N/A motor would get such gains from just a chip and filter. Especially since that is with the stock exhaust. http://www.evoms.com/p%20996%20stage%201%20upgrade.htm

I'm always skeptical about computer/ intake upgrades. Recently, it seems tuners are throwing in dyno results, yet INDEPENDENTLY run tests often seem to get much less impressive numbers. The test on the EVO website seems to show an ambient test temperature of 112 degrees F ! It seems to me that while an intake might not make much difference at more moderate temps when the air is denser, these test conditions might skew the results such that the benefits of a free flowing intake would be exaggerated by the conditions.

So I wonder if I were to buy this upgrade, dyno my car and find it comes in short of the dyno figures given on EVO's website if they would give me my money back?

Evo's reputation is pretty much stellar. Contact Todd there and I am sure he will stand behind his product. Many people on the Turbo board use his chips. -Lou

I do, I love it ....I couldnt resist caf, Our tests were INDEPENDENTLY tested by Technodyne (see the top of the dyno graph). The 112 degree weather will actually hurt power and not help as you stated. Heat reduces power no matter what upgrade one has on their car. I have an offer: Anyone interested in our stage 1 upgrade, I Will offer it a no cost. I will only charge for the upgrade when 100% satisfied. If not 100% satisfied, send it back no questions asked. Anyone interested???????????

Todd, I never said, if you read my reply, that the 112 degree temperatures would help power output. You're missing the point. I'm saying that the delta for any hp difference between a standard and modded intake would be smaller when the air is denser (colder). In other words, both the modded and unmodded engines would obviously make less hp at the lower ambient temperature, but the difference between the two would be much less at lower intake temperatures (if there is, in fact, a significant difference to begin with). By the way, I think I could come up with a mod of my own, and even if worthless, offer a money back guarantee. Most people, through the "mod placebo effect" would be sure (in their minds anyway) that their car was much faster by their seat of the pants dyno. I could refund the money of the few that ever did legitimate testing on their car, and still come out ahead. I'm not saying that that reasoning applies to the situation at hand, Todd. Just trying to figure out why so many people waste money on the worthless stuff.

CAF, don't you have this backwards? Shouldn't you be making *more* power, both stock & modded, at lower intake temperatures?

Uhh...the denser the air, the MORE air you are getting in to the engine. The cooler the intake charge, the more HP.

Um....guys, Todd is offering this upgrade with ZERO risk, forget the science behind it, take him up on it (I'd consider it, but AZ is a bitch of a commute from NY)

He made a typo the second time as well I think. What he's trying to say, while confusing and clearly mistated is the following (atleast I'm 99% sure this is what he's trying to say): ANY car (modded, unmodded, turbo, NA, etc.) will make more power the lower the ambient temperature (within reason, if it gets unreasonably cold I'm sure you'll run into other problems). This is true, the air is denser when it's cold so you get more air molecules (and more oxygen) into a given volume at lower temperatures than at higher temperatures. More available oxygen means more combustion and more combustion means more power. All modern cars have o2 sensors that will automatically provide extra fuel whenever there is extra oxygen available to burn it completely. The second part of what he seems to be saying is that at higher ambient temperatures the spread between a modified car and an unmodified car will be greater. I have no idea if this is true or not and would imagine that the degree the spread between the unmodified and modified car varies with respect to temperature would depend on the modification. I.E.: At 64F the unmodified car puts out 260 rwhp and the modified car puts out 270 rwhp. Net difference 10 horsepower At 104F the unmodified car puts out 252 rwhp and the modified car puts out 268 rwhp. Net difference 16 horsepower. Those are just made up numbers to demonstrate the point. I can't think of any logical reason that that would be the case however. Can you explain the reasoning behind that CAF and corect me if I'm wrong in my assumptions?

brh986 has it right--I apologize for my typo. I'm saying that I would guess that the the delta is less for any intake changes at lower temps; the power is obviously greater at the lower ambient temp. The reason I say this is that at a lower ambient temperature, for a given amount of air flow velocity, more oxygen is delivered (the air is denser) and hence more power is produced. At higher ambient temperatures, the air is less dense, and contains less oxygen for a given volume of air. Because the air is less dense, however, air flow velocity should increase. How come the increased air flow velocity does not make up for reduced oxygen content? The reason is that as the airflow velocity increases, so does Reynolds number. This means that the air flow becomes less laminar and more turbulent. As the air flow becomes turbulent, air flow velocity decreases (relatively). Obviously, we're talking theory here, and we don't know at what point turbulence becomes a factor in these respective intakes. My point is that 112 degrees ambient temperature is high enough that minor differences in airflow at lower ambient temperatures may in fact be more of an issue at the higher temps, and I would prefer to see tests of an intake mod (which is all about airflow) performed at a temperature closer to what most people see in day to day practice.

Caf, This is a great point!! I'm with ya all the way on this! Todd, any answer to this question?? Tell you what Todd, you show a dyno report showing a significant difference on a cool {say 70 or lower temp day} and I'll buy it!

It's only a chip. You take out your ECU, send it to Evo, and he overnights the new ECU back. You do not need to live near Arizona. I am in the process of doing it right now for my Turbo. Any of you guys have any question or want dyno results on a 70 degree day, call him directly. You can find his number at www.evoms.com. I am sure he will have no problem doing it. I mean his tuned cars have been featured in numerous magazines producing unGodly HP. He is a straight shooter and a great car guy. I really doubt he would skew dyno results with his reputation at stake. Good luck. -Lou

I was present for my before and after dyno results (before and after EVO changes). There's no slight of hand going on here. The performance gains are not misreported or exaggerated. I am sure that Todd would do the same for you - allow you to be present before and after. If you don't live close enough to visit EVO personally, have Todd ship you both the ECU and the chip switch, which allows you to go back and forth between modified and stock settings. That way you can have the performance shop of your choosing verifiy the HP for the stock setting, flip the switch, and verify the HP for your stage 1 or 2 setting. If it doesn't work, send it back and Todd will refund your money. P.S. Actually, if it doesn't work, figure out what your local shop did wrong before sending back the unit, as it will work.

I'm almost sold. Like I said, I'd like to know {before I buy} what sort of performance boost I can expect on a 70 degree day. Still haven't heard that quantified.

Is there really a chip switch? Is it noticable (will it void my aftermarket warranty or is it hidden)? And how would the chip work without the intake mod?

Sorry for the delay. Unfortunately, I live in Phoenix which is the desert and its hot here until November. Until then, all I have is the tests in 100+ weather. From past experience, the car will dyno stock at between 248 and 252 HP at 70 degrees like it did in 100 degree weather. The power gain should still be the same when cooler. I will test then and report back. My offer still stands, and if you are local to me, we can do before and after tests on the dyno. Anyone??????????

Todd, I'd like to take you up on your offer, but I'm worried about warranty repairs. What will Napleton Westmont Porsche in Chicago say when I come in with a check engine light problems with a modded chip? Will they care?

First, I see your theory however, you cannot change the fact that the OEM airbox is restrictive. More or less air density, it makes no difference when the OE box has imperfect air flow characteristics. Second, we have seen similar power gains in cool weather with the addition of the intake. Bottom line, I bought my 996 so that I could develop some products because there is not much offered the 996. I am not out to try and screw anyone here. I believe we have a good product that works well and at a fair price. I offer all my customers a 100% money back guarantee on anything that they purchase and will be there if they have any questions or problems. I will do whet-ever I can to get you all the information that you are looking for, though I am not sure that this will be put to rest. If I posted graphs at 60 degrees, would there be someone asking for graphs in 100 degrees???

Not sure about Napelton. We have sold many of these systems to the Porsche Exchange

A chip is relatively easy to install. If I were you, I would remove the chip myself and install the new one myself. Thereby reducing any chance of warranty refusal. If an authorized Porsche dealer doesn't install it, they will never know it is there. Even if they do diagnostic tests, and Todd correct me if I am wrong, they will not know that an aftermarket chip has been installed. -Lou

Hey Todd@EVO, can you email me off-line? I'm at [email removed] I have some questions for you re: X51 equipped cars. Thx

Why don't you guys put up or shut up! Todd is a quality guy who actually is a part of 2 big Porsche lists that I know of. He always answers anyone's questions and never hides from anyone. I bought the EVO DV's and the EVO Short shifter, both were quality products with precise instructions allowing me (not mechanically inclined) and a friend to do the install. Todd has offered a NO MONEY upfront guarantee, I don't know anyone who will do that. For those of you who are a bit slow he said he will send you the upgrade FREE and if you are completely satisfied then send him the money. I would say he would not do that if his products were junk. Thanks Todd you are top notch!

Getting back to my original question does anyone HAVE the upgrade on the 3.4 liter N/A engine? I think Todd's offer is awesome but I want to hear from those who have it before I would consider buying it. Todd, feel free to send me the upgrades and I will go dyno my car and post the results in exchange for a nice discount of course!

Todd, I'd take you up on the EVO intake offer for a 2003 996. I've got a DE event next weekend (12-13th) would love to have the new intake on before then. I should say that I had one of your intakes on my previous Boxster S and loved the sound and my own independent dyno tests showed about a 7-8hp gain across much of the mid range on the 3.2L engine. (testing was done at an ambient temp of 78 degrees I believe) What are the results for just the intake on a 2003 996 3.6L? I should also comment that I later added headers and ECU reprogramming (from another source) and the next gain was ~30HP over the stock 3.2L motor. I'd love to do the same to the 3.6L 996 motor, but so far I don't think there is an ECU upgrade for the 3.6 that gains anything, or at least I haven't seen one yet independently verified. Headers are available.

It sounds like Todd is willing to put his reputation on the line, so I'd suggest the following: Someone who is interested but on the fence about this upgrade take up Todd on his offer to allow a no risk purchase. Then, those of us who are also interested in the kit can paypal like $5 or so in order to cover the ~$50-80 in Dyno time to verify Todd's claims. The person who buys the kit can then take it to a local dyno and do a before/after run, and post the results. If it doesn't really make the HP, then they can return it. If it does, I'll put it on my future mod list for sure. I'm interested in the kit but wheels/tires had to come first, so I'm a few months away from being ready. But I'd certainly chip in $5 for someone who'd be willing to spend a little time testing it. I have an Evo intake and chip in my Audi and I would tend to believe the results. But a little 3rd party validation wouldn't hurt. Anyways, Garrett Lim is a genious with engine management on Audi's, so if anyone could find a few HP he could. My only wish is that the GIAC chip for the 996 was $500 like it is for the Audi. -Dave '00 996C2 '97 M3 '00 A4 1.8TQ '89 E30 M3 - Winningest Touring Car in History!

I agree.

Ghost Rider, unfortunately, we do not have the 3.6L tuning package completed yet. We will be releasing it in the next 30 days. Currently we are offering this system for the 99 C4 and the 2000-2001 996 c2/c4.

Todd, You say the stock 996 air intake is restrictive. I'm curious how restrictive you think it is. In other words, how much hp would be gained in a completely non-restrictive system--no intake, no air filter. Wouldn't most of the restriction in air inflow be due to the filter rather than the intake anyway? Were your tests performed with the stock air filter or an aftermarket one?

Todd, I was talking more about the air intake and that I'd offer to dyno my car before and after the air intake being installed on a stock 2003 996 3.6L with no computer tuning, etc. In the future, sure I'd be interested in ECU tuning, but for now just the intake.

If you had an open intake, no filter, you may not gain as much power as you think. Air in order to flow properly, needs guidence and direction. A cone air filter helps guide the air and will increase airflow over a flat panel filter. The OEM airbox is not restrictive b/c of the air filter itself. The restriction is from the design on the airbox in the way the air flows into the MAF area and after the MAF where the resonance chamber is. If you look at the internals of the airbox, the air must make over a 100 degree turn to flow into the MAF tube. It also must flow through a square shaped airbox and flat filter before it makes this turn. In addition if you look at the air filter, you will notice that the dirtiest part of the filter is right in front of the MAF tube. This is also where the OEM airbox has 20 0r so Little holes drilled in the bottom of the box. If this is the dirtiest part of the filter and where the air path is in line with the MAF tube, then a good portion of air is being sucked through these small holes. I would encourage you to disassemble your OEM airbox and take a long look at its design. I think that after you do you will see more clearly why our High Flow intake system makes as much power as it does. Hope this helps.

Todd, Does this mean you aren't doing a try before you buy on the high flow intake system like you offered on the ECU? I'm confused.

Most factory computers can "tell" the authorized technicians if they have been removed, disconnected, modified, replaced, etc. It's good business for the OEM's to code something simple like that into the computer. I don't know about Tod's product but alot of companies that offer "chips" require that you send in your factory unit for modification and/or reprogramming or it's done on a exchange basis.

I think LSM was meaning he would remove the "computer" himself, not remove the "chip". We do have to have the computer at our facility for the upgrade. We turn the computers around the same day we get them.

We will be offering them as a package and I will have them ready in the next 30 days. I will be glad to have you do some tests of your own. Contact me the end of sept. if you are still interested. Take care, Todd

Todd, you think you'll ever modify or make something for the TT in terms of an airbox?

very difficult to make mower with the twin system however we are working on something. I will be sure to keep you posted. Thanks for your interest. Todd

Todd, how about something for us NA 993 guys? We want more power too.

Yeah I figured as much Glad you guys aren't just tossing something out.. I figured something like that would take a while.... Thanks for letting me know. I'd talked to Joe @ Fabspeed a while back aboust sending my airbox to him so that he could mess about with it but I'm not sure that it's really worth doing. Probably a dual cone filter cold intake set up would be better... PS I hear you suprised my lil' chippy tippy ran 11.6? Wait till it runs 10s- without NOS hehe.

Uh that's my point. You modify the unit, the dealership or factory is going to be able to tell the difference between a stock and a modified ecu?

I couldn't agree more, great car guy, always answers my stupid questions, stands behind his product. Todd you really are top notch -Lou

Thanks I appreciate that

Todd, I know this is over a year later, but I just picked up my 996 and wouldn't mind trying out your Stage I upgrade. Let me know if your "free trial" offer is still on the table. Thanks Eli