PSS9's - Need New Sway Bars?

With the install of the PSS9's, is it necessary to also install new sway bars and drop links? I've done a search and some imply it must be done, others make no mention about doing anything more than installing the PSS9's. If its optional, what are the pros and cons to adding them?

I believe that you can reuse your factory swaybars and drop links. However I do suggest you upgrade. Most simply to the factory bars that come in the M030 kit. However if you have a C4 most people suggest you go to a heavier bar in the front because of the added weight of the front running gear.

I have a 2002 C2 Cab. What would be the benefits of upgrading the sway bars?

How are you driving? Track use? Street? Aggressive canyon carving? I have a 99 C4 Cab with PSS9s and the stock bars....no issues, and I drive pretty aggressively, and the PSS9s alone are a nice upgrade. I will probably upgrade at some point, but I have felt no need with my type of driving. I would do PSS9's and if you feel you want more then upgrade your bars as well....On a C2 with normal to aggressive driving and not alot of tracking, then I wouldnt get the bars. On a C4 its more of an issue because of the additional understeer in the stock suspension.

Suspensions are made up of many parts that do different things. Shocks and springs are just part of the equation. They effect ride quality, squat, dive, set and recover. Swaybars effect body roll. You can effectively remove body roll by running your shocks stiffer, but you then also remove some compliance and ride quality. IMHO you really need to upgrade the whole package. This is not to say that you can't do just one part, it's not going to cause the car to blow up. You can certainly do it in stages. In my mind it doesn't make sense to go with a high performing suspension like an adjustable coilover only to cut corners by not upgrading swaybars. Again this is only my opinion and it is certainly not a necessity, but for the budget you put into your PSS9's you could have done Bilstein struts, H&R springs, new M030 swaybars and bushings or the M030 kit from Porsche installed. Again, and this is only my opinion I'm SURE others will pipe in with conflicting advice, but if you choose a system like the PSS9 that is really a mid level track suspension (height adjustable, damper adjustable, corner balance adjustable) you should go all the way and upgrade the sway bars too. Since I entered the Porsche world coming from moding a number of different cars, this is the only forum where jumping into a coilover system is the norm. In most other performance circles I have found people just start out with springs and a sport valved shock, then sway bars and strut bars. It must be due to the abundance of money that P-car owners are willing to put into moding their cars. You are welcome to disregard this whole post. I'm tired and just rambling. In short, swaybars affect body roll (sway) in a car. Springs and Shocks or coilovers do not directly address this part of handling. AA PS to give some perspective I have upgraded suspensions on 4 various cars now

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If he isnt going to track the car, he wont really notice the difference. And the PSS9s are a GREAT street system....lowers the car, improves the handling while keeping the ride comfortable. I wouldnt call it a track system, nor do most track junkies, they say its too soft for hardcore track work, and JIC's are usually the suggested track coilover, yet they are a little harsh for everyday driving.

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I respectfully disagree, how many times do we whip our cars around the corners... yeah not at 90 mph... but once you put the sways on it is night and day... They have more performance impact than the PSS9, on rollover... if anything sways should be the first mod before coilovers... the pss9 is great for lowering and adjustment and ride quality but stiffer sways just complements the adjustability... but I swear by sway bar mods.

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I fully agree redridge! The sway bar upgrade is very noticeable for street driving. I suggest going with GT3 or H&R sway bars. It's not very expensive but improves handling dramatically for street and track driving. You'll see why when you take a look at the stock- and the GT3 front sway bar.

Redridge and hwk, what kind of sways [and droplinks] do each of you have?

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They are a great street system, just overkill in my opinion if not going to the track. I also referred to the PSS9 as a mid level track set up. Obviously advanced track setups will have 2 or 3 way adjustability and remote reservoirs.

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Drive your car with the PSS9s with the stock bars for a bit first. If you feel the need to firm up the suspension in corners then get the sway bars. The ride is a bit harsher(middle setting) over stock with GT3 bars and TRG drop links on my car with PSS9s. Don't mod because just for the sake of modding. Especially because others told you so. Take the car out to a few PCA AX events as is, then install the sway bar to help dial in the suspension the way you want it. There is a noticable handling difference on the track/AX.

Sways bars with or swaybars w/o drop links? H&R does not have drop links - are these good fror street use or is it preferred to go with a swaybars with droplinks? I just purchased PSS9s - and I need to know this also

anyone care to explain why droplinks are better than non droplink swaybars?

Drop links are required for ALL sway bars. The factory bars have a certain shape that dictates the factory drop links. However the aftermarket sway bars have a different shape that do not allow you to use the factory drop links anymore. Therefore if you buy the H&R swaybars you must also purchase droplinks so that you can attach them to the car. The stock bars, and the M030 bars use the same stock drop links. I'm not sure about the stock GT3 bars. Someone can chime in here with an answer.

So it sounds like if you buy PSS9s and want to do swaybars... a decent option cost wise would be to buy M030 swaybars and use the stock droplinks - this should be good for street or GT3 swaybars....if they use stock C2 996 drop links, or buy any other aftermkt swaybars and also buy droplinks .... which may be a better option for Street/Track but more costly

Good discussion folks, but as others have suggested changing the sways is NOT required when upgrading to PSS9s. Install the PSS9s and then drive it. I actually was considering the sways...had a professional driver take my car out on the track....he said DO NOT do the sways...it was already stiff enough virtually no roll. I have no problem with roll aggressive street driving in a cab!

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Actually, on a C2 you can use the H&R bars with the stock droplinks because the front bar is non-adjustable like the stock and M030 bars and it retains the same shape as well. It's the GT3 bars, TRG, and others that change the shape of the end of the blade on the sway bar to creat an adjustable bar that requires the aftermarket drop links to be used. No matter what the rear bar is you CAN reuse the stock links...however some still upgrade the rears links too for a beefier unit as the stock links can bend and break. Andy

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You would want adjustable drop links also, especially with the PSS9's. Adjustable droplinks will eliminate preload on the swaybars when you change the ride height on the PSS9's.

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good point as the PSS9 install will change the ride height..... Any recommendations on adjustable Droplinks?

Adjustable droplink uses metal bushing and overall construction is more rigid. It rides more reponsive and should feel it in corner handling. OEM droplibk may not be strong enough for a bigger diameter swaybar, as I blended the front OEM droplink with OEM swaybar. I bought mine from TRG http://www.theracersgroup.com You can also try: http://www.tarett.com

Gents I'm not trying to agrue the point of the adjustable droplinks...but from personal experience you need to really evaluate the purpose of the car when thinking about these links. The heim joints will wear and develop play which will result in clunking as you go over bumps. It's not a question of if...it's when. Also for a road car even with coilovers your heights are going to be pretty close corner to corner and you've not going to have excessive preload on one side or the other....and if you're driving hard enough on the street to notice the effects of this preload you're a danger to others on the road. For instance if you properly setup your car, corner balance it for your drivers weight, and then set preload on the bars when re-attaching them you'll be spot on. BUT as soon as you add a passenger you're going to get preload again. You just have to ask yourself if it's all really worth it in the end for your use. If you track your car often the adjustable links and adjustable bars should be the only solution. For those of you who don't track think about the potential of added suspension clunks with the droplinks over time and remember that when making your sway / droplink decision. Another option when using the adjustable front bars is to use a shorter OEM style link. This is what alot of guys did to their C2's when upgrading to the GT3 bar before the adjustable endlinks ever became readily available. Andy

I had PSS9s installed and noticed a HUGE difference on the track and some difference on the street...obviously both positive. I did one event with the stock sways and then the next 5 DEs with H&R sways front and back. While the difference was huge going to the Pss9s I didn't notice much of a difference when upgrading to the H&Rs. I used the stock droplinks with no problems. Just my experience. Hope it is helpful. K

Are both GT3 and H&R sways with adj droplinks easy bolt ons? Is there one that is easier than the other to install?

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Although I've only installed GT3 sway bars on my C2 and never H&Rs, I believe both installs are basically the same. The rear is very easy as it's below the car. For the front you need to take off some parts of the underbody as the bar is hidden. The drop links are in both cases just mounted to the suspension and the sway bar; not too difficult to change. I went with the GT3 bars as they are not really more expensive even with a set of front drop links. Got the bars from Brandywine Porsche (PA) with bushings for $300. Rennlister Insite can sell you drop links for a reasonable price. I use his front droplinks, so the total price of the whole set-up is <$500 with a 3-4h DIY. Here's a link that shows insite's drop links https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale-ads-member-to-member-fs-wtb-free/370324-fs-986-996-adjustable-sway-bar-drop-links.html

Thanks hwk72. is there a reason you didn't use insite's rear links? I am gathering a list for a pss9 suspension upgrade. what other items do you recommend i get?

Thanks for the OP for this thread I've been on the fence on the sway bar choices. Sounds like the GT3 sways with drop links is A+. Does anyone know benefits that the H&R springs have over GT3's?

None. GT3 springs are made by H&R. It is all about getting the right spring rates to match what you want.

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Sways, not springs.

I didn't use the rear adj. drop links for the GT3 sway bars as the stock C2 drop links fit in the rear. For the front you have to use new, shorter drop links due to the different form of the GT3 sway bar. The H&R sways are IMO priced just to be a little cheaper than regular priced GT3 bars with new drop links; with H&Rs you can re-use all 4 stock C2 drop links. Insite's pricing for the front drop links and a cheap seller of GT3 bars (thanks to Paul996 who recommended Brandywine Porsche) were the main trigger for my decision to go with GT3 bars.

i had my car on a lift on the last oil change and saw the rear links. it looked so thin and felt like i can snap it in half. is it just my opinion or are they really just not that beefy?

Your observation is correct; the stock drop links are not beefy at all. I'm in the process of changing my suspension to a used GT3 coilover suspension, so my rear stock C2 rear drop links will not fit anymore. I'll go with the stock GT3 rear drop links (part of the suspension I got) and keep my adj. front drop links. However, my point is that the stock GT3 drop links are not that thick either but still seem to be designed to hold the increased pressure of the stiffer bars.

Is it possible for you to post pics of the GT3 links next to a ruler or dollar bill so we have comparison with stock? It would be better if one of us has pics of them side by side for fronts and rears. Thanks in advance.

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https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...op+links+stock First post will show it.

Gotcha. I guess you don't need a big iron bar for drop links.