Engine Clicking- Oil Starvation

On my 00 C2 (about 65k miles), I occasionally here a clicking sound that I am fairly certain is oil starvation. It seems to come from the right side of the engine more of often than the right side. I know that there can be some starvation issues with tracking the car however I have been getting this sound from just driving down the highway then parking on flat ground. I always have great oil pressure. The clicking eventually goes away. I cannot replicate the problem, it just occurs when it wants. Everything runs great. No problems with the car other than a slight RMS leak. Oil level is completely full. No CEL and durametric doesn't find any fault codes. I feel fairly certain that it is oil starvation- the sound is exactely the same as previous experiences were I had a known starvation issue (non-996). Does this sound normal? Do I need to do anything about this? I have been ignoring it for awhile because it really doesn't seem to be a problem. I figure that it doesn't hurt to ask.

When was the last time you changed the oil filter, it's not hard to spin on another.

Oil starvation will eventually lead to bearing failure. If you starved the bearings for more than a few seconds, I am sure your engine would be toast. I think you are hearing a small header leak or exhaust leak somewhere else. Maybe even a weak lifter, I dont know, but not oil starvation. Oil starvation stems from high G's where the oil moves away from the oil pump pickups, not level ground idling. I am sure you are fine and can look elsewhere.

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+1, from what Ive read on PCA boards... oil starvation is also blown out of proportion and is a no issue on street tires.

Some ticking is common on these engines, they are noisy at idle...a distinct ticking is almost always a stuck lifter...what oil & viscosity are you running? Running the car til the oil is hot (normal) then letting it sit can let a leaky lifter drain out.. If you rev it to say 6000, does the ticking stop and go away for a while, but return when the engines been off and cooled down? That would be classic lifter issue. What is your oil pressur edoing at different RPM's? How do you know it's "plenty of pressure"? You COULD try an oil flush then fresh 5w-40 Mobil 1 or Redline and see if it goes away, but an oil flush might make your RMS leak worse, and if it's not your RMS, but the IMS, then it may not be worth the trouble. Any decent P-car mechanic should be able to hear it and tell you what it is.

I last changed my oil about 5k ago and I am using Mobil 1 0w-40- simply because that was what was what the manual stated. It seems to occur after driving on the highway at about 70mph or so. If I let the car sit while idling, the sound will go away after about 5 minutes. The clicking speeds up when I rev the engine but it doesn't go away. Last two times that my car was at my indy, the clicking wasn't present. I just went out and started the car. It was sitting for about 4 hours. The clicking is now present. It wasn't present when I came to work. The oil pressure is about 3.8 cruising at 3200rpm's. Pressure is about 1.2 at idle. Thanks, Steve

i think it is the piston lifter(s)

I have been thinking about the situation and I feel pretty sure that it is a lifter problem. Thank you to everyone for the advice.

Since you're almost due for an oil change, I'd try it with 5W-40 and see if it goes away. While 0W-40 (which I also presently use), flows easier when cold and gets where it's needed, it will also drain out of a lifter easier as well when cold.

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Blasphemy!!!

I have been looking around for Mobil 1 5w-40 and I am not able to find it. I looked on the mobil 1 website and all I can find is some 5w-40 turbo diesel oil. Are there any major chains that sell Mobil 1 5w-40?

Just run a oil analysis by sending in a sample to Blackstone to test. They'll reconfirm for you if you have oiling issues.

Hydraulic lifters work by getting "pumped up" with oil such that they occupy all the space between the cam and the rocker arm. If the lifter oil channel gets dirty the lifter does not pump up fully leaving a gap between the valvetrain and the cam resulting in a "ticking sound". Switching to heavier motor oil is not likely to help since thicker oil will be less able to flow through the dirty narrowed oil channel within the lifter. Your choices are to either add something to the crankcase to clean the lifter or replace the lifter. I've done both in my iron V8 days and it's much easier to use a strong additive. One product that I've used successfully in my old Mazda truck is BG Quick Clean for Engines http://www.bgprod.com/products/engineoil.html Basically you put it in and run the engine for 15 minutes, drain, and then change the oil. I know a lot of this stuff looks like snake oil but I've used it with success before. The noise went away and didn't come back. Good luck, Tonger

I have a similar sound and my engine has similar gauge readings. I hear the sound from the passenger side after the car sits for a day or when I start it after its been sitting overnight. It does not occur regularly. It did not occur until recently. I am scheduled for my first oil change (approaching 15,000 miles) since buying the car 5,000 miles ago. I presumed it was a lifter issue; its what it sounds like to me. I have had this on other cars too (not Porsche) when its time for an oil change.

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Do you know how many oil changes your p-car has had prior to your ownership?

Good question...6 times as follows: 2,315 Miles July 18, 2002 3,711 Miles May 23, 2003 5,829 Miles July 19, 2004 6,900 Miles Oct 29, 2004 – also replaced cylinder head cup seal 7,781 Miles Aug 24, 2005 9,991 Miles Aug 17, 2007 I bought the car with 10,500 miles on Jan 24, 2008 with a 2 year CPO Warranty.

That's excellent!! Hope the sound goes away on your next oil change

I was just playing with the car. I drove about 20 miles on an empty highway. I was about 75mph. When I got to my home and parked in my garage, I checked to see if the tapping sound was there. It was and it was quite loud. I let the car sit for about 1 hour, went out to my garage and started the car. The tapping was there but it wasn't very loud. I left it idling and walked out to my mailbox, when I came back the tapping was gone. I have not been able to tell exactly when the tapping (clicking) noise comes on but it seems to be worst after highway driving. Often it is present when idling but then goes away after a few minute. Does this sound like a stuck lifter? It seems to me that a stuck lifter would be better after highway driving?

Last night I was at my local auto store. I saw a product by Gunk called Valve Medic. It is meant to get rid of engine gunk and help stuck lifters. I was certain that it was snake oil and that it would be a waste of 5 dollars just like most of the other additives. I figured that it would most likely not do anything to my engine- good or bad. I purchased a bottle, added per the directions. They said that it would unstuck a stuck valve lifter within a few minutes- guess what!!! It didn't do anything!!! That was last night. This morning I started the car, no tapping. I figured that it was just a coincidence and didn't have anything to do with the Gunk additive. A few times during the day, I went out and started the car, no tapping. This was strange because it normally would occur during similar situations. I then decided to do a highway drive for about 20 minutes- this always causes the tapping when I stop and idle. I completed the drive and no tapping. I have tried a few other things that would normally bring out the tapping and I was not able to make it tap. It hasn't been 24 hours yet. I am going to change my oil in just a little bit. I haven't had a day without tapping for several months. I do think that this stuff helped the problem however I really doubt that it will last long. I will keep everyone posted.

^^Yes, please do change your oil and tell us if it comes back. The GUNK product might have changed the viscosity/friction modifier properties in the oil in some way. You might lose these "benefits" if you change your oil once again. I don't think Porsche recommends using oil additives, and I'd stay away from them.

Typically the GUNK, Marvel Mystery oil type of engine cleaning product is just transmission fluid which have great detergent effect to loosen up any sludge build up. When you pour the GUNK into your oil filler tube did you notice the color being slightly red?

Yes, it was a very dark red. Very thin consistency.

Three days from adding GUNK Valve Medic- still no tapping. I changed the oil last night with Mobil 1 0w-40. I have checked two times today and no clicking. I still do not feel that it will last but we will see.

24 hours after the oil change- the car is ticking away like normal. I think that the verdict is a someone mentioned- the GUNK valve medic simply changed the viscosity of the my oil. During the time that I the GUNK in the car (before the oil change), I noticed that the small drop of oil on my garage floor every morning turned from one small drop to a small puddle the size of a half dollar. I think that the small puddle conforms the viscosity therory. Steve

what oil did you use? I had a slight tapping noise... and when I used 15w-40 the noise went away.

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So? Are you going to change to an oil that better protects your engine from the metal to metal tapping?

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I used Mobil 1 0w-40.

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I have been reading too much and now I am confused. What weight would better protect from metal to metal tapping? Long story why but I have a huge amount of various weights of Mobil 1 at home. If there is a better weight that would protect, let me know. I realize that I am opening a huge can of worms here.

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you're getting to the point of sounding desperate dude. don't give out bad advice with your 15w.... oh now 5w BS.

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and disassembled it (took pictures may be able to provide link). The device relies upon very close sliding fits to retain oil and oil pressure and a check ball valve. If the ball or seat of this valve fails to seal due to a bit of dirt in the oil that got pinched in this ball/seat interface...But enough wear to cause a lifter to fail to maintain pressure, especially at higher engine speeds when the pump is putting out a big volume of high pressure oil. What can happen is for some reason (well, either related to sub-par lubrication or material defects) a valve lifter face or camshaft lobe or both can wear. In this case even though the lifter is fully pressurized and maintains this at all times, under all operating conditions, the gap due to wear is too great and the tapping/ticking is what you hear. In this case, the noise will be present at almost all engine speeds though could be more pronounced a higher engine speeds. There can be variations in the amount of noise, the characteristics of the noise at different engine speeds, too. Another possibility for the noise is for some reason oil pressure or oil delivery is restricted to one or more lifters. A blockage is very unlikely. What I've found in at least one engine -- not a Porsche engine -- is very worn camshaft bearings allowed what was essentially a huge internal oil leak and oil volume and pressure to the lifter gallery was reduced. They were noisy because they lacked oil and oil pressure. An oil pressure check can determine up to a point the engine's oil pressure is up to par and of course you want to check the oil pressure as close to where it enters the head and the lifter oil passages. Do not however, focus solely on lifter noise. A ticking/tapping noise can be a noisy fuel injector, an exhaust pipe leak (at where the exhaust manifold bolts to the engine head or a crack weld), or a loose spark plug or a bad spark plug connection or a damaged/cracked spark plug. (A spark jumping from the spark plug lead to ground can sound very much like a tick/tap.) A good mechanic can work to pinpoint the area of the noise and if a Porsche shop with the right equipment can command the engine controller to shut off fueling/spark to each cylinder in turn and by this eliminate some sources of the noise. A cylinder that is disabled and results in the least amount of RPM drop at idle is the weak cylinder. In this case the noise could be from something more deeper in the engine, like a burnt valve or a broken ring. You can try oil treatments but you want to be sure you do not attempt to 'fix' an tapping noise with some substandard oil additive when the noise is in fact coming from another source that is not oil related. One doesn't want in trying to shotgun diagnose the source of the problem to make the situation worse or do even more harm to the engine. Say it is a flat cam lobe. No big deal really. Pull the camshaft cover the camshaft and replace it. Renew/replace any lifters that are worn and button engine up and it will be as good as new. Sincerely, Macster.

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I would change to 5W50 (Syntec) and see if the noise lessens. The Mobil Extended Perfromance 15W50 is a much better than Mobil 0W40 for various reasons, one being it has better cleaners in it. BTW. Make sure that "tapping" you hear is NOT the EGR valve located above the alternator. This valve should be cycling and makes a quiick clicking sound when operating. You can determine if it is this valve causing the noise by disconnecting the electrical cable to it when the tapping occurs.

Metal to metal tapping is a problem worth looking closer (mechanic) to identify and resolve taking the proper actions. I would do this to prevent the possibility of it becoming a bigger issue. Don't reach for the bubble gum Easssy BruceP...

If it is a lifter problem, changing the oil to a different viscosity isn't going to fix it. It may just mask it. Anyway, this is like a doctor making a diagnosis on the phone. You may get it right, but more often than not you make a horrible mistake. Best is to have someone in the know actually listen to the thing clicking. Sounds like you already have the conditions down as to when the clicking occurs. Drive it on the highway, then take it to the dealer or your service guy. If it doesn't click, take it out again, and again, until the clicking is heard by the service guy. Regardless of how good this forum is and how bad some mechanics can be, there is no substitute for actually hearing that click

PALTING- Where in Ohio are you? If you are in the Columbus area, what indy do you use? I live between to MAG and Lamboghini Ohio but they are expensive. I have a guy who lives near me rebuilding one of my older engines. He only works on Porsches. He restores older Porsches (his shop is a dream). I think that next time I go over there, I will have him take a listen. I have had Evans Automotive take a listen to the clicking, unfortunately it wasn't there at the time. They thoroughly inspected the car and said everything was fine- other than a minor RMS issue. I also had MAG take a look, clicking wasn't present then- they also couldn't find any problem.

I'm in the Canton area and use the certified Porsche techs exclusively. As far as indies, Steinel's is supposed to be very good, but I have no personal experience with them. They're in my area, which is probably 1 1/2 hours from you. Went to Byers Porsche in Columbus last weekend for emergency purchase of brake pads in midst of DE. They appear to be excellent, but are probably expensive too. Anyway, if you are this worried about that clicking sound, I believe only a certified Porsche tech will be able to reassure you. MAG may be worth the expense for peace of mind and care-free enjoyment of your Porsche. Just keep plugging away until the tech can hear the clicking.

What 1999 said...check the EGR valve. This happened to me about 5 years ago and it does sound like a bad lifter. I chased the lifter noise with a mechanics stethoscope and could not find the noise. Finally found the bad EGR valve was making the noise.

Here is an update. I have been playing around with my oil to see what would happen to the ticking noise. I wanted to try a few different things to see if anything would change the noise. I did this because Gunk ValveMedic did eliminate the noise. I had a massive amount of various oils in my garage. I needed to do some spring cleaning so I thought that I would play around a bit. The car runs great. Now has 70k miles. Other than small RMS issue, no problems. First try- Mobil 1 0w40- 5k miles on it. Added Gunk Valve Medic- sound went away. (before I originally put the valve medic in, the oil was topped off, the valve medic put the oil level slightly over the line- this is when the sound went away). Second try-Removed the Mobil 1 0w40 that contained the valvemedic- I didn't want the Gunk Valve medic in the engine for long. I changed the oil to Castrol Syntec 5w40. Fill oil level up to 1/2. Clicking away like always. Added more oil, accidentally filled slightly above full and ticking went away. Third-Removed about 1 quart of oil by removing the filter a few times- ticking started again. Fourth-Drained Syntec 5w40, Filled with Mobil 1 0w40 to 1/3. Ticking like always. Filled up to 3/4 with Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15w50- ticking as aways. Filled to slightly above full- ticking went away. There were at least two days of driving between all of these changes. I know that it sounds like a complete waste of oil, oh well. I had to clean out my garage. I have not looked into the EGR valve issue. I have been stuck on the valve lifter since the Gunk product helped. It seems to me that if I had sludge plugging a valve- a thinner oil may help- however it didn't. If I had a worn lifter, it seems that a thicker oil would help- it didn't. The only thing that I can find that takes it away is filling the oil slightly above full. I cannot figure out why this would help. Of coarse the sensible thing to do would be to take it to my indy. That is too much of a hassle. I would prefer to figure things out myself. One side note is that when I changed from 0w40 to 5w40, the occasional 1-2 drops of oil that I see on my garage floor has completely gone away.

Can somebody give me detailed instuctions on where the egr valve is?

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The valve is located above the alternator. It is connected to a hose coming from the left sdie of the engine and a hose that goes to the throttlebody. In addition to the hoses, it has an electrical connector attached to it. It is normal, after warmup, for the valve to operate, making a ticking sound. Disconnecting the electical connector will stop the valve operation.

I came back from the Nurburgring Nordschleife yesterday with my -99 Carrera 2 with 235&295 Toyo R888`s (2006 replace engine with x51 oil pan, Mobil 0W40). On high speed corners like Galgenkopf oil pressure goes down to 2.5 bars. No clicking or any other problems (yet). What do you think about it? I guess this has been discussed earlier but didn`t find any topics.

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Simple cure: GT3

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Even simpler cure: Use a better oil.

I'm surprised that everyone is focusing on oil, which I agree could be the problem, but the first thing I would have done is: Run the car down to less than a quarter tank of gas. Go to a different gas station than you have been filling up at and put 93 in the tank. If you are in one of the states where 93 is not available put in the highest octane possible. My car will tick ever so slightly when I have to put 91 octane in (on the road). That would be the simplest and first step, then I would have started exploring all the oil, sensors etc...

Well mayby I would n`t drive modified Carrera if I had afford to buy GT3? And I can`t believe that changing oil to better from Porsche Oem (mobil 1) would increase oil pressure from 2.5 to 4+ bars on high G corners when the pressure is ok on other corners and straights. How much the pressure should be (minimum) on high G corners or how many bars it`s in GT3? Greetings

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was the high speed turn a left hooker and long? maybe you should fit the x51 oil return mod... chads996 has done this, PM him for any info...