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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHPorsche CPO warning/help request
Reported or suspected cause
sales department at the dealership
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Reported cause · Original poster
They informed me that aftermarket wiring does void the warrantee and my issue was with the sales department at the dealership.
Leading evidence: 'sales department at the dealership' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'sales department at the dealership' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check clears' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
While this seems obvious to me when you put it that way, it never occurred to me to have the car inspected by an outside source to make sure there was no adulteration of the Porsche systems.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
When the thieves realized the car had a tracking device installed they abandon it in a parking lot, but not before trashing it.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
They covered the cost, repaired the car and gave me an A8 loaner.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Replaced all four tires, didn't like that there was a slight curb rash on one of the wheels so had it repaired and delivered it squeaky clean.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
While this seems obvious to me when you put it that way, it never occurred to me to have the car inspected by an outside source to make sure there was no adulteration of the Porsche systems.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I tell him I think he's full of **** but he insists that their previous attempts at repair had nothing to do with these issues and I finally pay for the switch and the diagnostic fee(I didn't let them do the CD changer).
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49 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Hi folks. I wanted to call attention to a problem that I've been having with my CPO '03 C4 cab. Please bear with this long painful story, my therapist says it will help me to get it out. Kidding!, ...sort of. I think it is relevant for anyone considering a CPO purchase.
Sometime in mid-October I was caught in a storm and had to put the top up for the ride home. Being a humid day, I turned on the A/C. I discovered that it didn't work! Fan yes, A/C no. Took it to my local dealer who attempted to solve the problem w/o success. It seems the computer wasn't recognizing the A/C because of a problem in the stereo wiring. As the plot thickens, I learn that my car has had an aftermarket stereo at some point which has been replaced with a CDR-220. (MY03 should have a CDR-23 and the MOST system) The service writer charges me $400 for their time and sends me packing to the dealer who originally sold me the car. The good news is that I was able to have my leaky RMS done while it was there. (Would you believe this SOB tried to charge me $1800 before I told him I was aware of the RMS history in the 996?) Thanks Rennlist!
My salesperson at said dealership no longer sells Pcars for them but still works on the BENZ side. He sends me to the CPO Sales Manager. Sales Mgr. says sorry, it's a Service issue. Service Mgr says make an appt. and we'll have a look. First, they tell me it's aftermarket wiring and not covered by CPO. I explain that this is how they sold it to me and if they didn't put the 220 in themselves they should have known it was the wrong headunit. They finally see my point and attempt repair. After a week in which they farm the car out to a specialty auto electric shop they tell me the problem is solved "just some jumbled up wires". I brave the DC beltway at rush hour a second time only to find that, not only does the A/C still not work but now the instrument cluster doesn't light up. Not very confidence inspiring! So, I get another dirty rental car and drive home(4 hr. roundtrip at this time of day). They play with it for another 2 days and this time offer to drive the car to my place of business to make up for the last time. I was unable to inspect the car at time of delivery due to work issues. That night on the way home the A/C works! Hooray! Instrument cluster...not so much
Worse, now my CD changer doesn't work! Are you F-ing kidding me?? Service writer makes me bring the car to him this time because they are sure they fixed it and it must be ME! I ask to speak to Service Mgr. Not available right now. Never calls me back but, I'm assured, he's aware of the situation. Again with the pilgrimage to Mecca. This time they tell me the light switch is the culprit for the instruments and the CD changer has died. These are, of course, not CPO items. I tell him I think he's full of **** but he insists that their previous attempts at repair had nothing to do with these issues and I finally pay for the switch and the diagnostic fee(I didn't let them do the CD changer). Another $400. A week later I pop the trunk and discover that the floor panel and wind deflector storage bag are gone! I'm nearly homicidal at this point.
The next day I put in a call to PCNA. They informed me that aftermarket wiring does void the warrantee and my issue was with the sales department at the dealership. They were nice about it, but no help. They offered to call the dealership GM and regional mgr. for me, FWIW.
First of all, I was operating under the misconception that if you bought a CPO you didn't have to worry about a PPI. The car must have been thoroughly checked to qualify for CPO right? This is a sentiment I've seen repeated by others on the board. I hope you all realize this is a potential problem as I now do. Please be careful!
Second, does anyone have any suggestions for how to pursue this further? It's not just the CD changer or a few bucks out of pocket. I'm concerned that I have a car with some potentially significant electrical problems and I think this dealer CPO'd this car inappropriately. There are a few other issues I've omitted that reinforce my point (this post is long enough). Is my only recourse litigation at this point?
BTW, my RMS still leaks...
I wonder if you have been a victim of a flooded car. The electrical gremlins with the A/C and cluster, IMO, are not caused by the stereo. I know that CARFAX is not always accurate, but did you run one before you bought it?
All the wires are in the same place. I have seen lots, (probably most) stereo installers trash cars when installing a stereo. OEM wires should not be cut to install a stereo but that's commonly how it's done. Chances are they either tried to tap into 12v at the climate control, or they wrapped their spliced wires with electrical tape and something shorted.
First: Carfax can be doctored up so an adverse event never gets put on it.
You should have gotten a checklist from the dealer showing that everything met CPO standards and works upon delivery. You need to find out who did the aftermarket stereo if it was the dealer you may have a case if not you may be screwed. Is there any way you can contact the previous owner? That may help a lot, it's always a good idea to do this before the purchase you can learn a lot about the car.
No CPO checklist. One of the issues I brought up with PCNA. At the time I bought the car, I was unaware of many things Porsche that I've subsequently learned here. Other issues include aftermarket mufflers, non-N spec all-season tires, laser diffusers front and rear but no control unit.
I can't help but think that the dealer received the car with an aftermarket stereo and replaced it with the CDR-220 because they had one lying around. Why would someone flip their $96K cab after 2 years and take the time to put in the wrong stereo back in before they turned in the car?
That car was not qualified to be sold as a Porsche CPO. It is supposed to meet ridgid standards required by Porsche.That is a very bad dealer!! What is their name?
That was my first thought as well.
Sounds like you need to first clearly establish whether or not your car is Porsche CPO'd or not.
I would call PCNA to ge them involved; inquire as to the CPO-status of your car; have them send you a letter stating it is or is
not
a CPO car.
Did you get a binder of CPO documentation a couple weeks after your purchase? You should have. Check your purchase documentation as well - see if the dealer claimed if was a Porsche CPO car.
GL
I doubt the dealer received the car that way. If someone put in a nice aftermarket stereo, they probably took it out before returning it, then stuck in another car or sold it. I think many RLers do the same.
I also doubt there's anything a stereo installer did that would require replacing the harness, although there's a good chance the OEM connector was cut out. It's tough to say without seeing it. You can get the CDR-220 tools for pulling the stereo for a couple dollars on eBay, or probably from the dealer. Pull it out and see, and / or take some pics.
Be prepared to be horrified. When I pulled my steering wheel, someone working on the car before couldn't figure out how to get the OEM clips back in so just twisted and shoved everything back in there resulting in my Tip controls not working if I tried to telescope the wheel.
Too bad, this should be a pretty easy fix for the dealer.
While I appreciate your input, you haven't read the previous posts in this thread very carefully. It
is
CPO, I've had numerous repairs including cats(x2), and RMS at a different dealer w/o paying a cent. I also received the CPO documentation
from PCNA
but no CPO checklist from the dealer as I didn't know this was part of the process until I'd owned the car for a year. PCNA
is
involved BUT,
and this is the main reason I posted this here
they say that since the car has aftermarket wiring, they
will not
honor the CPO. They say it's a sales issue, and while they've agreed to talk to the GM and file a "Poor sales experience" report, their hands are tied. I want all Rennlisters to benefit from my misfortune in this situation by protecting themselves in the future. To my way of thinking this is a huge failing with the CPO program that I had not previously considered.
Think about it: You purchase a car from an authorized Porsche dealer and the dealer CPO's the car giving you what amounts to a complete factory warrantee. The caveat being that if anyone has altered the car in any way, at least the altered system is not covered by PCNA. While this seems obvious to me when you put it that way, it never occurred to me to have the car inspected by an outside source to make sure there was no adulteration of the Porsche systems. I thought that was implied in the CPO process. I accepted that they were the experts in evaluated their own cars. Perhaps my situation is the result of ignorance by the dealer or perhaps it's fraud. To be fair, I don't know this yet. I'm still in the (painful) process of pushing it through the Porsche chain of command. But, again, I wanted other potential CPO buyers to consider getting a PPI even on a dealer car. And, i promise, if the GM at the offending dealer gives me the same song and dance that I've received from the frontline troops I will shout their name from the rooftops.
Actually, the MY03 began using the MOST fiber optic system so any aftermarket stereo would require a new harness. (Something else I've recently learned.)
I have not read EVERY word... but man, sounds like a rough start over there... I hope things calm down and you get some enjoyment out of your car!!!!
Here's to a bright future!
OH, I LOVE the car. I've put 20,000 miles on it in the 2 years I've had it, driving it year round. I just NEVER should have put the F-ing top up! If I hadn't tried the A/C that fateful day I'd still be in a perpetual state of Porsche bliss. Instead, I have the queasy, uneasy feel of damaged goods and a (weak) warrantee that's about to expire. Pass the Mylanta...
Correct. I glossed over your initial post and missed those critical details.
. Seems like quite a run around for a Porsche CPO'd car, which made me consider that yours wasn't. Good Luck
Damn, you're right. In that case, someone ran new speaker wire as well?? No wonder it's screwed up. Although I think you have a case with the dealer that there's no way they should have sold you an '03 with a CDR-220. I am guessing this has already occurred to you. I think it's the CDR-22 for MOST?
Thanks. And, I have to agree. I just can't believe that Porsche would tolerate this sort of BS. To be honest, I've had a very "Chevy-like" experience with both Porsche dealerships I've tried for service. It's been disappointing, to say the least. I've had a totally different experience with Lexus and Acura. They really understand customer service.
I can understand the second dealer upon seeing the bad wiring not wanting anything to do with it.
I can't understand the non-n rated tires and the aftermarket stuff that got by the first dealer that called it a CPO. Porsche needs to cut that dealers ***** off.If this doesn't work out we all need to know that dealers name.
Sorry to hear.
I have a similar story. In 2005 my wife and I bought a CPO audi A6 2.7T manual transmission car from a Porsche Audi dealer.
Six months into owning the car it just died. Nothing. Got towed to dealer. Dealer finds out the car had an aftermarket chip in it that fried the computer and he wants me to pay $1,400 or so for new computer and says that it is not covered.
I freaked and said, yes it is, you sold it to me this way. Dealer did not budge.
Had attorney friend draft a letter that I hand delivered. They covered the cost, repaired the car and gave me an A8 loaner.
I hate dealers.
Usually disputes like this are resolved by someone in authority. The service manager is authorized to say "no". Furthermore, someone who is perhaps responsible will do an outstanding job of ***-covering and doing his best to ensure that the real story does not reach someone authorized to say "yes". A letter from a lawyer usually brings it to the attention of someone in authority.
Best,
Our local dealer had a CPO car listed several years ago that had previously belonged to a rennlist member. The car's history was well documented here as it had been stolen along with his Cayanne from his garage. When the thieves realized the car had a tracking device installed they abandon it in a parking lot, but not before trashing it. The car needed a full repaint, and IIRC most of the interior replaced or repaired. The owner didn't want the car back after this incident and it ended up back on the dealer's lot. No mention of this in the dealers add for the car, or any explanation of how it could still be CPO'd with all the work done to it.
I 'm sure the quality of CPO inspections vary greatly from dealer to dealer.
Gasspasser19, its a shame that your selling dealer passed this car with out bringing it up to the standards required by the CPO process.
Go over the head of your dealer. Call germany if you have to. Porsche execs go to each dealer annually for inspection and have the highest standards. I doubt they will be happy to hear about a customer in their biggest market (USA) getting the runaround on a car they CPO'd.
I had my dealer try and screw me on an issue they promised to fix in the sales contract. A call to the owner of the dealership coupled with the threat of getting my attorney involved did the trick. The sales manager wanted none of that.
When I worked corporate, I got letters on my desk from the president or CEO with instructions to do whatever was necessary to "take care of it." I realized after a while that the CEO or Pres never saw the letter, it was just passed on to someone who took it seriously because it was from the desk of the President or CEO.
Any time I have had a serious grievance, I have written to the top and cc'ed customer service and anyone involved by name. I am batting near 1000 with acceptable or better response.
Write to Wiedeking and cc PCNA, the dealer, and anyone involved by name. They will s@#t their pants and solve the problem.
This is just an example of the power and the strength of a user group such as this one. I was number 1 on the list of a dealer here in Dallas for a Corvette ZR-1. Just before the time came to order the car, I was informed that they were going to sell it on Ebay. After trying to fix the situation I told everyone about it on the Corvette board. The owner of the dealership (he owns a few) got thousands of emails and faxes letting him know what was thought of his treatment of a customer. They folded within a few days and issued a public apology of the "mistake" the GM made.
My point is, if you can't get resolution quickly, let us know who the dealer is including their email address/fax number and watch the sparks fly.
Joe Cortney
04 C4S
Dallas, TX
I sympathize. I too was recently victimized by Porsche and its CPO nonsense. I my case the car was delivered with mismatched tires on the rear, hairclips and hair ribbons in the glove box and armrest, dust and dirt everywhere, what I think is a defective vacuum hose under the dash, and an engine that emits a fairly loud, probably value-related, ticking.
After returning the car to the dealership, they solved the tire issue and detailed the car. However, the annoying and pronounced "sucking" sound from the dash continues, as does the ticking. Also, when I pointed out some of these issues, the servic manager told me that, hey "it's a used car", and blamed the engine noise on my driving the car only on weekends. Evidently, a CPO'd Porsche is reduced to a "used car" once the check clears. To add insult to injury, I traded in a mint 911 with no value-train noise, no "sucking sound", and new (and matching) P-zeros for this thing!
If these problems are not fixed in the near future, I will join you in shouting the names of these dealerships from the rooftops. As have you, I have benefitted from my membership in Rennlist. I think we owe it to one another to warn of incompetent or uncaring service managers.
I too am in a similar situation, but I don't think it is just CPO related. I think they are equally annoying to their customers under regular warranty too. The CPO just has a more specific list of covered items.
WOW. I'm surprised to hear how many other people are having similar bad experiences with Porsche dealers and CPO cars. It suggests that getting satisfaction might prove difficult. I haven't heard back from the PCNA rep this week. I'll be calling her again on Monday to see where we stand. Salayc, I'm assuming Wiedeking is the CEO of PAG? I think that contacting the highest authorities is a good idea. Maybe a cc to the Washington Post too, just to be inflammatory. Anybody have access to contact info for top PCNA or PAG execs. to save me a little research time? The dealership in question is owned by a famous racing name so maybe a letter there might help. I'm sure he wouldn't want the negative publicity. I'll have to see what I can find out this week. Thanks for all the input everyone. I love Rennlist!
I'm beginning to wonder if a group letter to Porsche would help--with copies to our respective dealerships and one posted on Rennlist.
As a high school student many summers ago, I flipped hamburgers at Jones Beach here in NY. I promised myself I'd never again have a job that required me to interact directly with the public. I never have. I point this out only to emphasize that our complaints need to be legitimate and our tone reasonable. That said, I think a CPO car with mismatched tires is unacceptable, and a service manager who considers it "used" rather that CPO'd unreasonable. Each deserves a response.
Not relevant to this particular story, but I would avoid Rockville Porsche/Audi in Maryland. I had an absolutely awful CPO buying experience there. And the service dept. is terrible.
Bill
Wiedeking is the CEO. The corporate address is on
www.porsche.com
. In my experience, it's best not to do things like: cc a newspaper, threaten a lawsuit, etc. The technique that has worked for me is: explain how you love the product, explain the unexpected bad experience (use lots of names and dates) explain how this has dissapointed/angered/whatever you, and how you may not be a customer again. Explain what you think is a fair resolution. Polite works best, but definitely start at the top.
CRAP! I was just about to try them. Does anyone have a GOOD experience they'd like to share? I'm talking specifically about the Baltimore/DC area. There are no less than 6 Porsche dealers within an hour of me and I've heard bad things or experienced bad treatment from no less than four of them.
As an update on my car: The PCNA rep basically said they were sorry but I was on my own with the dealership. The dealership, in turn, is not returning my calls. It's going to be more hassle than it's worth but I'm going to start writing to anyone who will listen at PCNA, PAG, etc. As the title states, the offending dealership is Porsche of Tyson's Corner, VA Roger Penske's group owns this dealership so I'm also going to try to get something to the man himself, FWIW.
I don't really know what the moral of the story is here. I'd love to buy a 911 every 5 years or so until I'm too old to sit that low! I've always been a fan of buying a few years old rather than new to temper the depreciation a bit so the CPO idea was perfect for me(or so it seemed). Do I try to have CPO cars PPI'd in the future? Should I just accept that the only way to avoid this kind of thing is to just buy new? The service at Porsche dealers still sucks in my opinion. I've driven a lot of different cars and nothing else has scratched that itch the way this one does. I'm stuck....any suggestions?
Sorry to hear about all your troubles, and the apparent uphill road ahead to get them resolved.
You wanted to hear some good CPO stories. Ok, here's one. I got my C4S brand new, leased it through my own corp. End of the lease, I offered to buy it as a personal car. The dealership agreed, offered the CPO extended warrantee. They went over the car with a fine toothed comb, 3 page checklist. They gave me a copy of the checklist, signed by both the tech and the service GM. Over the next several years, got 3 cats (2 left, 1 right). IMS and the darn RMS (threw in a labor free clutch replacement), leaky oil filler tube, leaky cam cover, and another full 3 page checklist at the end of the 6 years. Ended March this year. Knock on wood, everything still looks good.
PCNA has a tendency to back up their dealership in everything unless it is patently obvious that it's the dealer's fault. OTOH, they will also readily pay for almost anything so long as the dealer says it's covered. To me, it sounds like this dealership did a poor job of PPI before they gave the CPO, and now they are covering their ***.
This thread explains why I insisted on getting a PPI on a 19,000 mile CPO C4S over the dealer's strenuous objections. He wouldn't bring the car to my Indie of choice so I had to pay my guy to go to the dealership, beg for the use of tools and do the inspection. Even with the PPI, I ended up replacing a bad spring within 2 months and the coolant bottle last week. I'm still fighting over trying to get the bottle covered under warranty.
Keep bitching as far up as you can get. I'm sure that you'll get support from everyone on this forum.
Interestingly, I had a good service experience there.
They replaced the climate control unit (LCD leaked), and did my RMS, without any trouble. The service adviser guy I got and the mechanic both were very nice and seemed to know what they were talking about.
I went to Tysons after having such bad luck with Rockville.
Bill
It seems to me people are regularly getting ****-poor treatment from Porsche dealerships all over the place. And PCNA doesn't care. I wonder what'll happen as their sales go totally into the tank with the economy. Will the service get even worse? They'll be in the business of selling one car to a customer, pissing them off, and losing them to another brand.
Sorry to hijack your post but here's my CPO horror story (only had the car 2 months):
Bought a CPO 2002 C2 under 50k miles from a dealer 100 miles away.
1. Cup holder broken and front trunk dirty when I picked it up. They vacuumed the trunk and told me that the cup holder was not covered under the CPO
2. Did not make it home before the ABS and PSM warning lights went off. When I got to my closer local dealer they could not look at the car until two days later.
3. Oil light went off driving it to the local dealer
4. Local dealer fixed "faulty" ABS, PSM, and oil switches and found oil leak so replaced RMS
5. Oil light came back on a few days later, return visit to local dealer replaced a sensor
6. PSM/ABS light came back on a few days later. ABS cylinder replaced. Also had them replace the lumbar support on passenger side which was not working
7. Next day front directional not working. Servicing dealer had not put the light unit back in properly- which they fixed.
Last 2 weeks no problems...knock on wood. All work was done under warranty but my faith in Porsche sales and service has been completely shattered.
I would not recommend buying a CPO or a car out of warranty based on my personal experience.
I sent a letter to the dealer I bought the car from and managed to get an offer to have the cup holder replaced for free, but that's about it.
I agree completely. For me, CPO is just a marketing trick.
Not that it'll matter for me, since with the new economy my current one will likely be my last.
wow. I guess it all comes down to the dealer. I bought mine (04 C4S CPO) this year from Park Place here in Dallas. They went over the car from top to bottom. Replaced all four tires, didn't like that there was a slight curb rash on one of the wheels so had it repaired and delivered it squeaky clean. Haven't had so much as a burp from the car and have had calls from my sales guy and the service writer they introduced me to just to make sure everything was going well.
Actually, I wouldn't have expected anything less.
I had a great CPO experience the car was delivered in super condition gone over with me and the salesman.I felt like I had just bought a new car.
Non working key fixed on the spot. Year later returned with O2 sensor problem and mentioned an oil leak, fixed RMS that day. I live 100 miles from dealer. They gave me a cayman S to drive to town to go to lunch or just tool around in till it was done. Offered to clean the whole car after as they had gotten fingerprints on the rear bumper the service advisor noticed upon deliver after repairs. Can't say enough about the service I've received.
http://porschenashua.com
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
