Suspension upgrade - last call!

OK, Im ready to go ahead and I've done my searches & read all the posts. My plan is to buy the ROW M030 set-up because: 1. I want the car lowered/ balanced F&R, but not too low. 2. I am not interested in changing the ride height once set. 3. I want a better ride; not necessarily firmer but more stable/planted without the floatiness, light front end & harshness that plagues stock, which I understand ROW 030 resolves from reading posts by those that have it. 4. The improvements I'm looking for are mainly for street driving as I rarely track, & never will seriously with this car (cabrio). 5. Being a cab, I understand the inclusion of front & rear sways is a very good thing to enhance rigidity/stability. 6. Value: if 030 will do everything I want for about half the cost of Pss9 (incl sways), why not? So, my purpose here is to invite confirmation from you suspension experts that I have it right. If I have any of this incorrect, please tell. Also, where is the best place to order it from? I am looking at Suncoast, but is there anyone better? I will likely install myself, then take it in for a full alignment & corner balance. I will need to drive it approx 30 miles to the indy shop for the alignment. Thanks for any feedback. Regards, Paul.

No affiliation but I heard that ViperBob has some really good competative price on the ROW M030s.

You'll need the alignment, but you can't corner balance the M030 since there's no adjustability. Otherwise, it sounds good.

You listed all the right reasons. Indeed, you're overlooking #4 too much; the performance at the track is vastly improved with the ROW M030 setup and still provides a wonderful dynamic and bump-pliant ride on the street. As for vendors, I've not used Suncoast but hear good things. You might also want to try Sunset Imports (whom I have used). Their service and support in the past have been exemplary.

I'm planning to do the same thing for basically the same reasons. I spoke with Jeff Clark @ Sunset. For my 2003 6-spd C4 cab. the ROW M030 is $1029 plus about $80 for shipping to MD. Also of importance, they will take about a month to get from the Fatherland. What's your Suncoast price? Which sways are you going with and what do they run $$?

I was in a very similar position and picked up the RoW M030s through Sunset. It took about a week to arrive (they had them in stock). It will meet all the criteria you have listed (imho). I am very happy with the change.

Never heard of Viper Bob, Google did not turn up anything?? Thanks, my mistake. Suncoast price online is $1185 for '02 on plus shipping which includes sways as part of the set.

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I have a full ROW M030 that I pulled last month and replaced with PSS9. The M030 is still sitting at the Ruf shop (Ruf installed/uninstalled the M030). It was great for the year I had it. Ride height doesn't change much over stock - a little, but not much. The ride was significantly better with M030 over stock. I prefer the PSS9 though, and if I had a chance to do it over, I would not have taken the intermediate step of ROW M030. Just my $0.02. PM me if interested in a used ROW. I haven't contemplated selling it yet, but when I do, it will have Rennlist pricing... -td

PM sent

RoW M030 is what the factory should have used for the base suspension.

I'm still new to the pcar world. As I have the US M030, what's the difference between the US and RoW versions other than ride height? And how much does the RoW drop from the US? And are the aftermarket coilovers that much better? Sorry if I'm opening a "can o worms" here too!

No can o worms at all. In fact this is exactly the point of my post. I am asking if the PSS9 coilover set is really better for any of the things I am looking to achieve, then that is what I want to know. If it is really a better choice then that is the product I would chose. But the issue is I have not been able to find any tangible reason why it would be better.

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Some details I forgot to mention: My car is a MY00 C2. The ROW M030 has about 8,000 miles on it. The M030 was purchased from Sunset early in 2007 and installed by Ruf. I also upgraded to GT3 sway bars, so the ROW M030 sway bars are part of the take off package (23.6mm front and 19.6mm rear). I haven't checked the box of goodies (which is still at the Ruf shop), so the bushings may or may not be in there. But the shocks and springs should be. [ROW M030 springs are 170 f /260 r] As for your questions: I upgraded for adjustability and track purposes. In addition to the PSS9, I also put on GT3 sway bars in the front and rear (with adjustable drop links) and GT3 lower control arms for additional camber. The PSS9 is quite good, and substantially better than the ROW M030 - especially if you go to the track. For the street and very limited track use, the M030 is a good compromise. For more than 1-2 track events per year, the PSS9 is a better choice. For junkies, you really need a race set-up (Moton, JRZ, etc). IMO, PSS9 is better because it is adjustable (1-way bump/rebound), has higher spring rates, allows increased camber due to upper mounts, and with the GT3 sway bars, reduces lateral body roll. Simply put, it is a bit more agressive than ROW M030. I would say that the PSS9 set at 5 and sway bars set at full soft is a rough approximation of how the ROW M030 felt when driving. In addition to the handling department, the drop in ride height with the PSS9 makes the car look so much better. Even my wife likes it Keep in mind, that PSS9 only includes the suspension bits, and you will still need sway bars and links - which makes the PSS9 project more than 2X ROW pricing. IMO, if you use a 1-10 scale, and put stock at 1, and PSS9 at 10, the ROW M030 is probably a 6-7. That makes it better than 1/2 as good, for less than 1/2 the cost (new). It's a pretty good value, all things considered. All that said (as I mentioned), if I had to do it over again, I would have gone Stock->PSS9 without the intermediate M030 step, but hindsight is 20/20, eh... -td

I think your though process is good. I don't mean to through you a curve ball, but have you considered the x74 suspension? I have it and love it. If you are going to be dropping so much money on install and alignment I would suggest you spend a little bit more and jump into the x74 set up for even better handling and ride quality. just my 2 cents.

Thanks td, that is exactly the type of summary I had hoped to read. Kid, I understood from my reading that X74 is VERY firm, which I do not want. I plan to do the install myself, then take it to a shop for proper alignment.

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Firm yes, harsh no. I wish you were closer, I'd give you a ride. You really can't go wrong with the 030 either. install is not too bad. A few tips. You will not need a spring compressor to get the struts out of the car but you will need one to disassemble the old struts to move the bushings over to the new set. You will need to remove the front brake calipers in order to get enough range of motion to (limited by the brake line) to get the front strut out. I went with new caliper bolts when doing this. AS for the rear, when removing just tap the bottom part of the shock with a hammer to get it out of it's "cup" once the retaining bolt is removed. It will pop out and drop down freeing it from the car without having to compress the shocks. Also, when installing the front swaybars. You must first drop down the plastic undercover. then losen the "boomerangs" that hold the front subframe together. It will be obvious what I mean by "boomerangs" once you get under there. You do not need to remove them entirely. just loosen and swing out of the way.

I confirmed my new(used) M030 is USA sport, not ROW. Gray painted dots on front struts and rear shocks identify them as such. I still can feel an marked improvement over stock without any ride/comfort penalty, so I'm very pleased with the swap.

I just went through this debate myself. I opted for the PSS9's. You have to figure you dont want to waste money and have to buy/install a suspension twice so your decision should be long term. 1. height adjust ability, while you will get some drop you may not get what you want and if you change rims size in the future you can adjust for that 2. corner balance, your really going to maximize the suspension by getting this down and should be much better handling Also the price of PSS9's has signficantly dropped with the pss10's coming out. I just picked up a set of pss9's from Vivid, it was under 1750 after tax and shipping.

Been there done all the research - row vs x74 vs pss9/10s vs other coilovers I went with PSS9s because the ride height adj is key. The row kit is fixed like stock and IMO not quite low enough if larger wheels and tires are on your forecast. The price is under 1750 these days and the compression/rebound adj are 2nd to none for street or light track days. I paired this up with H&R Sways front and rear and the car just handles 100times better. I prefer coilovers to a fixed strut period and the bilsteins are rebuildable.

If I had the nice roads that you guys have in the US, I definitely would have gone with the X74... but up here in Canada, especially in Manitoba, the roads are horrid. I found the 030's were a nice compromise.

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Addressing the floatiness issue. The aero kit front lip will help with this. My car was lowered, corner balanced, etc.. but it still felt light. After the lip, it is now stable at speed.

sell--trade? i have an x-74(3) on my 2000 996, approx. 2k miles on it. a bit to stiff for my taste---already have a full race car. was hoping to trade for an m030. pm with offers

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+1 I think the same Standard suspension is not the correct stuff for a 911 Look at this: https://rennlist.com/forums/showpost...1&postcount=14

I got my ROW 030 from Sunset. Love the improvement. Definitely should have come like that from the factory.

Pm sent to Himself. Interested in MO30

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There is a PCA article that you can look up on their web site: PCA.org. The main difference is the height is about 10mm lower with the ROW or about 1/2 inch. The ROW has the struts valved more stiffer thus will improve quick transition handling. For the cost to change over from a US to a ROW is not worth it if you're look for better handling. Your best bet is to use H&R springs for a lower height or go for the PSS9 system for improved handling. FWIW I do about 2-3 DE events and M030 works fine for me. I like the car a little higher than the PSS9 because I have a steep driveway.

I'm pretty content with the RoW M030. It's good on the street, and still gives adequate ground clearance. IMHO, it makes the handling much more sensitive to changes in tyre pressure, which makes it more important to check the pressures between DE sessions (guess who got a scare at Willow Springs by forgetting to drop the rear pressures in all the excitement of a trackday). I'll be able to report back on how the M030 handles Nova Scotian roads at the end of the month!

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The pss9's are adjustable, so if you like them higher you can raise it.

But even at their highest, they are still lower than ROWM030.