What can go wrong next....

Well had my car in to the dealer today for its yearly service. It's only just on 28k miles now but had the 36k service done anyway as the year is up. Dealer is still waiting to hear from head office "if " they wil do the RMS on goodwill terms. The service manager at the dealer reckons they will but can't guarantee it. But......it gets worse..... The service engineer pointed out a winining from the gearbox in 1st and 2nd. I am used to the sound and just thought it normal. I guess having a cab I just assumed you could hear all the wining and grumbling of the engine. So it seems the gearbox is now hosed too. As far as I am concerned this noise has been with car since new but he reckons its a new noise. To prove it he took me out in another similar cab. Sure enough it sounded much quieter than mine. So there you have it, I have had the car car 3 years now, terated it like a baby. never tracked it. Never really driven it like its supposed to be driven. Followed the book with services...even geting them done when the mileage shows that it isn't required. Its done 28,000 give or take a few and its got a busted engine and a knackered gearbox. I ask myself, are these cars reliable? I mean this is no Ford here......or ist it! Not feeling very happy at the moment..........

I have had a bunch of Fords and never had leaking seals or a blown trans with less than 30k. Souns like your car is worse than a Ford.

Berny, that really is a bummer, but don't give up. If I were in your shoes (and after I calmed down), I'd make it my business to begin a campaign to get some post warranty work from Porsche. It's incredible that after 28K of normal driving that this would happen. It has to be defective parts or assembly, or both. If you have any suggestions that we could do as a group. Perhaps we could write character letters to your distributor or General Manager in the UK. I have to speak only for myself and not others on the List, and I cannot speak for Rennlist, but I bet there is a bunch of us that would be willing to do most anything you might suggest. Good luck!

maybe i am missing something, but isn't his 2000 car under warranty?

Hi Don, I didn't sleep too good hence I am typing this into the computer 7:30am on a Sunday morning. Basically my brain was working overtime during the night thinking about the Car (my baby)/PUK/RMS/Gearbox/Finances!/and the world caving in. So I got up out of bed and came down to the computer. I guess it's a sure sign I need to evaluate my life :-) First thing I do is read your response and man I cannot begin to tell you how good it is to read those words. You have made me feel better already. Your right of course, I should calm down and today I am going to try and do just that. But it really is great to know that there are guys like you who would be willing to help me out. There are a couple of gotchas that I haven't explained. I bought the car used and privately (not from a dealer). But when I bought it 3 year ago it had only done 675 miles. I got the car at a great deal from this guy that went chapter 11. So I am the 2nd owner although as I have said I have followed the book with services etc. But the real catch is that my car is classified as a "c16". In the UK that means the car was an import but not via the Porsche UK network although it is fully spec'd to UK standards. In the UK, many people are buying their cars in say France or Germany and then driving them back here. They save a bunch doing this. Often thousands of pounds. On a 996 you could save as much as �8000 by buying it from Spain as they have low import duties. Since the UK joined the EEC, you can buy anything you like in Europe and not pay import duty when you bring it in. So they fly to say Spain, order a new car with UK specs and then fly over again to pick it up at delivery and drive it back home to the UK. But these cars have not been c16 stamped which means that all they are, are RHD cars with a few mods. They get the bad news after 3 years when their car fails its 1st MOT (ministry of Transport) test due at the 3rd year mark and thereafter annually. It is then that they find out that their car fails UK emissions tests, has wrong lights, incorrect seat belt tensioners and so on. Basically it becomes a nightmare and costs so much to fix that you soon realise you got a bad deal after all. Mine, thankfully is a c16. This means it really is a UK spec car so I don't have this worry. But as I said it also means it didn't come in via PUK. This means that in effect they don't have to honour any warranty that Porsche Stuttgart themselves might provide although they often do. Especially when I have had the car serviced throughout by PUK. Their wording is it "is not a Porsche approved used car". So when it comes to serious problems like engine or gearbox, I am not so certain they will want to help me out too much.....and especially when it is both! PUK have a goodwill system and this is currently the subject of my RMS problem. PUK are currently making decisions if they are going to fix this for me under their good-will scheme. They tell me I will no the answer to this on Tuesday. But if it is done, it is done under the good-will scheme and not by way of any warranty. Furthermore PUK only provide 2 yes two years warranty on new cars not 3 as in the US. So really my car is out of warranty over a year! So my situation is basically I don't have a leg to stand on. I may (and pray hopefully) get the RMS done free but the gearbox is another issue. I should mention that my dealer said it is likely that in view of the fact that the car has a FPSH via PUK they will offer some help with the gearbox issue. But this would only mean they would possibly help source a used one or maybe help with support to deal with Porsche Stuttgart direct. Or would help out in some way toward the cost of it all (probably they would fit it at no cost if I could source one myself). Wow! an hour has just flown past typing this response.....better go get breakfast on the go or "the missus" will beat me up :-) So I will finish off here by saying thank you Don for your support. I may take you up on your offer. Your a real gentleman. Here's to you Berny

Hi, I've sent you a personal message. Cheers, Uwe

"So my situation is basically I don't have a leg to stand on. I may (and pray hopefully) get the RMS done free but the gearbox is another issue. " I am not an expert on European Warranty, but I take issue with that. This car was built by Porsche and came with a warranty. You drove it within the confines of Porsche warranty guidelines (you did not track it etc, they can read the ECU and see how you drive it), and with 28K miles it needs a new engine and trans?? That is redulious! I can go purchase the cheapest car sold in the US and do better than that. If PUK gives you trouble, I'd go to Porsche (factory) and/or I'd speak with the dealer where the car was purchased originally. If that didn't work, I'd speak with a mean nasty lawer... Good luck Roy

Roy, I agree. I think it sucks and I take issue with it all too. But before I accuse PUK and shoot myself in the foot for blowing them a wrong wistle, I want to give them every opportunity to deliberate the matter and hopefully sort it out under manufactueres warranty or good will, whatever they want to call it. As I see it this is either due to defective assembly or their engineering is crap. In either case it should be covered by manufactures warranty. Especially on a car that they claim is "street worthy" and it at 28k its only just been run in. Right? If they don't come up with the goods I will take it to higher grounds. But as I said before I blow them up too much let's see what they have to say first. Apparently I get to know the answer on Tuesday. We'l see.

I just found this site that has refurbished gearboxes. They seem incredibly cheap. Anyone had any dealings with them? http://www.autoshoppingcenter.com/tr...chemanual.html

I hope it works out for you Roy

Something that worked for me once on my wifes used toyota (Don't now how many previous owners)with leaking valve guides at only 69,000 (warrenty was to 60,00 ) miles on it. Initally they were not going to do anything saying that this was not a common problem, but let them know (Service Manager) that posts on the internet in forums show that it is a problem and they seem to be unaware of. I also mentioned that I was in the market for a new car and was making my decision on a new toyota or a honda and this would make up my mind. 1 day later they said bring my car in and they would repair for free, but I did pay for new belts water pump etc I told them to install since they were in the repairing stuff and these parts needed replacement anyway in 20,000 miles. Good Luck

Sorry to hear about your situation. Hopefully it will work itself out.

Look at the date of the original post! Its been resurrected from time gone past!

Have you actually seen the RMS leak? There is a scam going on at a (Name Left Out) Dealer near me where Corporate is investigating the dealer putting through warranty requests on items covered....but in several cases, it is alledged that the work was not necessary and the dealer was just trying to keep the mechanics busy. Just a thought. As for the tranny, if they are not going to cover it under warranty, I would leave it as is. Change the gear oil and the noise might go away, or at worse, it might eventually fail. Why install a new one (at your expense) when it seems to be operating fine and just has a slight noise that you have gotten used to? JMO

Look at the date of the original post! Its been resurrected from time gone past! You right! I guess you're the only alert one here.

Geez, this brings back bad memories...... Well just for an update...here goes. Make of it what you will. Since starting this thread back in Aug 2003, I have had 5 RMS replacements. Yes 5. So that means including it's original it is on its 6th RMS now. But it still leaks. Only last October (2004) did I finally convince PUK that they were doing the job wrong and that they should be measuring/checking the crancshaft bore opening tolerance. I sent them the TSB's that Loren sent me. Then they took notice and checked it using the mandril tool. It was as if I had lit a light bulb for them! Of course on measuring it, it's out or tolerance spec so they said I need a replacement engine. Yeah like I didn't already know it! But they want me to pay for it and they will put 50% in towards good-will. In the UK NOBODY has EVER had an engine replaced FOC because of RMS problems. Note even warranty cases. PUK told me this and the guys on PCGB have backed it up. The gearbox is finally getting replaced on Monday next week. I have to pay 50% of that too. All up it's going to cost me about �10,000.....that's about $20,000 !!! So I decided to get the gearbox fixed and just live with the RMS problem ........ much like every one else does. I am not going to replace the engine. It runs fine and doesn;t use oil despite the two drips per month on the garage floor. Oh and BTW: I have spoken directly with Germany. In fact the worldwide support manager. Also spoke to the UK Service manager. Also spoke to the French Service manager (happened to bump into him at a car show in Cannes). All said exactly the same thing along these lines "its a known and common problem but it's not long term damaging to the engine and we treat each car on its merits"....Bullsh1t! I also spoke to a very well known and respected German PAG engineer. I went for lunch with him. He was telling me that this RMS thing is a big problem for Porsche. But there is unlikely anything will be done about it. They hope it will go away. I asked him if this problem is inherrent in every 996 n/a engine. He said unfortunately yes. <<<< TAKE HEED EVERYONE. When I started this thread, my car was just out of warranty (weeks) and had only 28k miles on it. To have an engine and gearbox problem (complete powertrain) in a car of this calibre at this mileage is unacceptable. But to not get the support of the company when it has such dia problems is incredulous and unforgiving. Since posting this, I have sat and watched and took part in many many RMS threads on many Porsche Forums. I have watched this problem grow to epedemic proportions. I have seen post after post of RMS problems and engines blowing up. I have posted umpteen pictures on the Internet of piles of blown up 996 engines out the back of Porsche OPCs. I have also tried to rally everyone to write to their local Porsche HQ and complain bitterly and to demand an explanation. I have asked people to show support for the RMS Club cause by displaying the RMS FAILED image in their posts. But in reality, the forums don't get to the real heart of 996 owners. Most owners don;t even read rennlist, renntech, funcarsonline etc. Then for those that do, there are too many sceptics. But at least in the UK the PCGB are running surveys with members and putting up a fight with PUK & PAG. In the US nothing is being done....and that's where PAG would sit up and listen. I have prety much given up on the fight now since you guys in the US aren't doing anything about it. So there's no point in continuing. While I love my Porsche 996 and the two Porsches I had before it, I doubt I will ever buy another one. The car isn't the problem. It's the company and its attitude towards its customers that will eventually let it down. They are huge and making megabucks but all things come to an end eventually. The higher you are the harder you fall. And Porsche is not infalable. You only have to read Skips problems with his new 997 to see what I mean. Anyway, roll on Monday when I get my new gearbox. My car has been laid up for months now. I can't wait to get it back on the open roads again. Cheers

Wow, I am putting mine for sale this week! I am out of warranty and scared to death. Sorry to hear about your problems.... Robert

Scouser, I agree with you and ran into the same situation with my car.. Yes, the 2 engine replacements at $25,000+ did **** me off... the $9,000 transmission replacement didn't make me happy either.. nor did the $2500 flywheel, and the other $8,000 in misc starter, radiator, coolant box parts make me even a happier camper believe it or not... even though it all happen within 1,100 miles of driving.. as many of you know all to well... (even though it did help start pissing me off... <g>) ...like you said, it's the attitude of porsche that really set me off and made me swear off buying another porsche ever again... their attitude is completely horrible.. when all the problems happening are internal faults caused by them.. their attitude is either a) silence, looking at you to quit bitching cause you have a porsche and can afford to repair it b) ignorance, like they dont' know what you are talking about... how porsche's are perfect.. never will they admit that their is a fault by porsche for the problems you encountered... my newest problem, the mass air flow sensor, was paid for in full by my extended warranty company which was nice.. but of course porsche had nothing to do with that.. wasn't out of their pockets.. all i can say is.. porsche customer service and customer relations is the worst in the car industry in my opinion... sure, they may have friendly service managers working at the dealerships... but at the end of the day, you will still owe the same money, for a part and problem that shouldn't be going wrong at such low mileage... regardless of how nice they are to your face.. i wouldn't even park my porsche in my garage (let alone think about driving it) without an extended warranty.. (the engine would probably walk out of the car and sneak into my bedroom and blow up on me while i'm sleeping with my luck on engines blowing up on me..) see pic to the left for how i feel about porsche... but thus, i do love the way it drives.. i guess it's give and take... can't have it all in this world... but i wouldn't mind having that $47k back

Bob, you need a buckeye to carry around in your pocket, one for each door cubby, and and a bag of them in the front trunk

Hey Berney This Saturday go out and remove your cigarette lighter assembly. That will make you feel better!! Hang in there guy... Jim

Berney Just got the Porche Mag (Christopher something). They have an article on the head guy making billions for PAG. this guy is walking on water, I don't think we mere mortals can expect someone of his stature to turn and help us.

Scouser sorry to hear of further problems. I think after you get the gearbox sorted that should be all the gremlins sorted. I mean there will be little else (engine/transmission wise) that has not be fixed or replaced, bar RMS ofcourse. That can go anytime / or all the time.

It's for these very reasons I just sold my 996. Out of three P-cars I owned as of November, I'm now down to one. And it's the one that's still under warranty. A box. Porsche has gotten by on its laurels for too long and hearing about and experiencing these problems is the last straw. I've dealt with dishonest dealers and cars that had numerous issues. Porsche has no business designing and building cars. And I'll be damned if I ever purchase one again. Porsche.......They can make a car that can go fast but can't make a car that will last.

jimster, I take issue with what you say. To be honest I don't see how you can even begin to make acusations based on your history. Accordingly, you've owned 3 Porsches since Nov and now down to one. That's 3 Porsches in 3 months! How can ou make judgement on that grounds? Having owned two previous Porsches and one a 1978 912 Targa, I can tell you with experience that Porsche can make cars last. It's just unfortunate that my current 911 has so much troubles. Everyone else doesn't seem to have my car's problems. Iv'e said this before and I will say it again, the car is not the problem its the company behind it that is. They could put my car right easily and all would be well with me but they choose not to. I put myself in the loyal Porsche owner's group since I have owned Porsches over 20 years. I am what most companies would call a good asset since I am a good bet to buy another. But since Porsche has treated me so bad they have lost me as a customer for good. I am sure I am just one of many in this regard......that's where they will fall. But don't blame these cars. They are and remain to be a beautiful machine.

Bottom line: do not EVER keep your car past warranty. If PAG is going to ignore all these problems, simply let them pay for it during the warranty. I know I don't ever plan to keep another Porsche that long again. Scouser, very sorry to hear the story. Hope things get better man.

I asked him if this problem is inherrent in every 996 n/a engine. He said unfortunately yes. <<<< TAKE HEED EVERYONE. To be clear, we are talking about M96 engines...I have not heard of an endemic RMS issue on GT3/GT2/TT engines. FWIW, I just sold my 2000 996; liked the car but didn't want to deal with this stuff out-of-warranty. -jim

scouser, definately with ya there.. even after my horrible ordeal of having to spend $47,000 on my 996 last year and having it in the shop for over 200 days last year.. i still love the way it drives, and will hold onto mine for a little under 2 years, until the porsche warranties are up... and the extended warranty is up.. and then i'm moving on... porsche has lost me as a customer.. the $47,000 in repairs isn't what lost me as a customer... i could care less if another one ends up reliable or what... the way i was treated during these problematic encounters from porsche was the worst treatment i have ever encountered in my life from any car manufacturer. the fact is, porsche could give less than a flying f**k about you or your car if you are out of warranty, end of story... all the problems of internal failuires, from out of spec engines, or whatever the problem may be, isn't their problem anymore, it's yours.. and they will make you pay for it, that's for sure... the fact is, porsche is so hush hush about any and all problems about the vehicle, when they know they exist... (the execs are prolly just hoping to cash in as much as possible before the sh*t hits the fan... and then leave, and let someone else deal with it, as soon as the money stops flowing in their pockets or fingers start a pointing.....) that i honestly cannot trust the company anymore.. i have no faith in a company that refuses to acknowledge the problems they've created... everytime i came in with a major problem with my 996, they tried to sell me a new porsche... f**k em.. is that porsche's way of saying these are disposable cars after the warranty ends? fact is, i won't be around long enough in the future to find out.. in a little under 2 years, it's good bye porsche... until then, i'll keep mine, as long as i'm not paying to have it repaired... (like right now for example.. mass air flow sensor replacement $650... my cost... nothing.. feeling.. priceless :P (although my extended warranty company probably doesn't feel that way <g> )

I disagree that the RMS issue is an epidemic. SOME people have experienced a problem with it and some several times over. However, the vast majority of the 996's have never experienced this problems and probably never will. It sucks for those you have a reocurring problem, but is does not define the 996. I have to laugh sometimes when people complain about having to spend $800 or so to replace the seal yet spend thousands of dollars on things that have nothing to do with the performance of the cars. Then an additional several thousand dollars for wheels, spoilers, bra's, exhaust suspension and on and on. If you want to worry about something, then focus on why some of your cars are burning more than a quart of oil every few hundred miles. If you don't want to have things possibly going wrong with your car.....take the bus. JMO of coarse.