Any RMS success stories?

I love my car, I really do -- but this is starting to get to me. The RMS has already been replaced twice and now needs the repair again. This will be the third one within 7,000 miles (2.5 years). The first was covered under warranty and the second was "goodwill" from Porsche because it happened less than 5k miles after the first. This latest episode is happening just 2k miles since the last one was done but my dealer says he can't ask Porsche for another goodwill repair and that I'm stuck paying for this one. This is frustrating since it now happens once a year after VERY low miles traveled. The car has never been tracked and is driven conservatively. I know I've read posts about successful RMS negotiations with Porsche on this board in the past, but I can't seem to find them now. Can anyone offer any advice or contacts at Porsche to enlist their assistance in covering this 3rd RMS? Many thanks in advance!

Letting a car sit as much as you do only encourages RMS leaks in ALL cars. I never store my cars for any length of, but if I did, I would do exactly what I do to my V8 boat engines...fill the crankcase to overflowing to keep the seal soft and flexable. Make sure you leave yourself a note on the steering wheel so you don't start the engine before draining the oil. After you get it fixed, drive it more and harder. And if you are using 0W40 Mobil 1, stop using it.

Stop driving the car "conservatively" take it to the track. In all seriousness, I recently talked about this to the Service Manager at the local dealer, he said none of the cars with the latest Cayenne seal have been back yet.... PS. 1999Porsche911, what are you using for oil?

5w40 in winter and 15w50 in summer. Mobil or Castol.

I had my RMS fixed in 1999. I store the car every winter for three months. It has been fine. I can't see any validity to the storage issue. The seals are on a round shaft they are made of neoprene which does not "Dry Out". I think there is some art to installing the seal properly. You have to be lucky and get a good knuckle dragger

I have had the RMS done 4 times now, the last time they used the new seal, so far no leaks and i have had it leak every 5 k, 10 k with the new seal and all is well. The new seal also comes with a new tool so the tech doesnt even touch the seal period, alot of talk has said that it was 99.9% failure because of the tech.

Neoprene does shrink. Especially when dry.

41K,DD, Track, redlined daily, zero RMS. Porsches need to be rode hard and put up wet!

There was a good article on RMS seals in Total 911 magazine and they mentioned the special tool to install the new seals. It appeared to be "fool proof" if the mechanic uses it to install the new seal.

No such thing - someone always invents a better fool.

The latest issue of Pano in the Tech Q&A section had a fairly long article regarding RMS. Interestingly enough, they claim to be having a high success rate when using the new Cayenne RMS for replacements.

Same as Chris here.....Daily Driver/Redlined daily/Tracked hard and no RMS. Mobil1 0W-40 every 5-7.5K miles. 60K miles and counting! These cars are not supposed to have F-Car type miles put on them. They are menat to be driven hard and often.

I don't buy for a second the excuse that mechanics have been installing the seals wrong. Short of installing it backwards it is nearly impossible to screw-up and if they install it backwards the mechanic should be fired on the spot. BSC, your problem is not the rear main seal but your engine. If your local service advisor refuses to do anything than you need to escalate the issue to the regional rep. PCNA know exactly what the problem is and they are counting on you to bend-over and take it.

Well the truth is they do , not by really making a mistake but by touching it, according to 2 local Porsche techs there is only one way it can go in . I dont buy installing it backwards. You only have one shot to install the seal with the tool, if you miss the new seal is no longer good.I have had 4 done and this one seems to be doing the trick they agree it's the tool that is working. I have done my homework on this, I would have agreed with you once..but not now.

No point in fighting Porsche over this. They warranty the repair and covered it again when warranty was up. You have little ground in making they pay again to fix it. I'd either trade the car for something else or fork out a grand to get it done. When you pay the job, you'll get a two year warranty. Honestly, if you only put 7k mi in 2.5 yrs, why do you even bother keeping the car? Sell it so you don't have to worry about it. It's obvious you don't need the car.

Yikes! You sound just like my wife talking about my cars

I bought my car as a CPO and records indicated that the RMS was fix at 22k miles. I bought it at 31k miles and currently have 69k miles on it. I've had ZERO issues with using 0w-40 Mobil 1. But then again I do drive my car daily, track it and drive it like it should be driven. Plus I do make sure that the oil is always topped off. Where are you getting your information about not using 0w-40?

With your engine temperature averaging 215 - 220 around town in hot weather, your oil temp is in excess of 230F and probably closer to 240F. A 0W40 weight oil WILL NOT protect your engine in the long run. You have to run at least a 5W50 weight in the 3.4 engine. The 0W40 shears at that temperature and your bearings know it.

As 1999P911 said, water temp displayed on the dash is generally 20-30 degrees lower than the oil temp. ...

Never heard of this before.... Checking Mobil-1s website they do not make a 5w-50. They only have a 10w-40 and 15w-50. I use to use 15w-50 in my Turbo but I would think that's too thick to run in my 3.4??

I run 15W50 Mobil or Syntec in the summer months here in Chicagoland. In the winter I run 5W40. In Houston, I would just run 15W50 all year long in the 3.4. Why would you think that the 3.4 could not run 15W-50 if your Turbo does?

That's an unfair statement. There are many enthusiasts who own Porsche's (and other makes) and do not drive them daily, yet enjoy owning them. Just because they are not getting 12k miles on them annually does not mean the cars are not loved nor does it mean they are "not needed."

Loved does not equal driven. I think the analogy that is being offered is you may love that "piece of art" but it is NOT meant to just sit.

Porsche never fixed the original problem they just replaced the seal. Three RMS leaks with three different seals all within 7000 miles tells you the seal is not the problem. Has anyone hooked up an oil temperature sensor to their 996? The air-cooled models like to run around 190F-200F so I always figured the water-cooled motors would be similar if not cooler when generating similar power levels?

The coolant temp is higher than 200F on these cars driving around town in warm weather. Oil is upwards of 230F. DO NOT use 0W40 in warm climates.

I guess Porsche forgot to warn those of us out here in the Las Vegas desert about not using 0W-40.

Not really. They sepecify a higher viscosity oil, but most do not use it. Their recommendations are based on the cooler, moderate ttemperatures of Europe. IMO, it is engine suicide to use 0W40 in and climate higher than 70 degrees. Sure, the car will run great right now, but anyone interested in maintaining ther enignes long term, they will be disappointed whenthe bearing rattles start and the carbon starts building up. Porsche does not "recommend" 0W40, but smiply states that it is the factory fill.

Then why is there no 50 in the Mobil1 line? And only a 15W-50 in the EP line? If there were a 5W-50 I would consider it but 15W-50 in the winter? No way.

Oil recommondations from PAG are usually broken down by region and country. I won't speculate on how they choose what does and doesn't make the list. For example...

Castrol Syntec offers 5W50. There are dozens of approved oils, not just Mobil. People have come to interprete that because the car comes with Mobil 0W40, that that is what they should use. Even many dealers don't know better....or they simply don't care.

I don't know if the list I have applies to the water-cooled motors but if it does here are the approved formulations of Mobil 1 (I haven't been able to find any other lists from PAG so...)

Yes, I expected some of you to chastise me for not putting more miles on the car, and I understand where you're coming from. Here's the situation though: I live in a major city and don't do ANY daily driving. I take the subway to work and can walk to my dry cleaner, grocery store, etc. You're right, I don't "need" the car for any point A to point B driving applications. Therefore, each and every mile that goes on the car is from going out and driving purely for enjoyment -- rarely to get anywhere. Maybe I'm boring and need to find more places to get too -- I don't know. But, here is my point on why I think Porsche should cover this. There is clearly a problem since the SAME problem is up for repair a third time (after they've "fixed" it twice). All other theories on how much/how hard a car should be driven aside, Porsche gives us only two major "causes" for problems as defined by their original warranty policy (and yes, I know someone is going to disagree with me): 1) miles and 2) age. You get 4 years or x number of miles before they will no longer warranty the car. Too FEW miles are NEVER the cause of voiding a warranty with Porsche. So, if the company implies that either time or miles are what breaks things, then I think I have a case. Neither a lot of time nor a lot of miles are the issue here. Therefore, it must be something else and I think Porsche should do it until its right. If I spend a grand on it now and it continues to leak, yes I get a two year warranty. Great. What happens after that time is up and it happens again?

this is exactly RMS issue is brought up on this fourm so many times. porsche only cover their car for 4 year, no good compare to hyundai. so after 4 years, they don't cover it any more. you have to draw the line somewhere. hyundai draw the line at 100Kmiles, porsche does it at 50KMiles. that's what it is. i hate to say this cause i am looking for a 996 myself.

Darn it...I knew I should've gotten that Sonata. It had all the options I was looking for in a sports car. No sunroof, manual windows, no power steering, no A/C...what was I thinking....

Maybe Moibl 1 could actually make the 5W-50 that we are "approved" for.

The list of approved oils from Porsche is almost 8 pages long. Mobil is just one of them and is not any better than most of what is on the list. Syntec is as good or better and is avalable in 5W50. Remember, Porsche DOES NOT recommend Mobil 1, but only approves of them. Factory cars are filled with Mobil 0W40 because Mobil pays to have them do that. If Castrol or Quaker State or even Kmart paid them more, the engine would be filled with their brand. Basically, use any brand name synthetic oil that is available in the weight you want and you will be fine.

You're using the Castrol line? How long? Ever done an oil analysis test? Just curious since I am trying to gather empirical data rather than anecdotal so I can a decision that is best for my car.

Sell you 1981 Z then. You're obvioiusly not driving it enough. LOL. Seriously, you can't expect everyone to put 12k - 14k on their pleasure cars per year. It simply doesn't happen for many people. That doesn't mean they should sell their cars.

I'll ignore that stupid statement since you don't know the history of the car. Since you haven't been around very long I'll fill you in quickly so you can take your foot out of your mouth. The car is NOT mine, it was my father's. It was his weekend car that he babied and treated as a garage queen. But he died this year and he knew how much I loved that car growing up so he gave it to me. I would never condier selling that car since there is such an emotional attachement to it....you know, memories of childhood, etc.. It's doesn't have low miles b/c I don't drive it. It has low miles b/c he didn't drive it. Now it is just a material possesion that reminds me "of a time". You really should think before you speak.

Your list is old... on the "Engine Oils Approved by Porsche" TSB that came out July 28, 2005 there is no 50W oil of any brand (worldwide) on the list. Only approved weights are 0W-40 and 5W-40.

Dell. I use Mobil in the summer (15W50) and Castrol (5W40) in the winter. Porsche is a hoot! Let's see, when were they wrong? When they approved 15W50 in the 996 a few years ago, or when they approved 0W40 after that, or now when they do not approve 15W50? Did I ruin my engine with their first recommendation? Their second, or will I ruin it followng the current one? They just love issuing modifications to their EXPERT knowledge of oils. The fact is, that there is no claim as to the protection level of any oil above 212F, which is considerably cooler than the oil temp in the 3.4. There is no difference in the internals of a Porsche engine than most other engines ever built with hydraulic lifters as far as oiling goes. I know Porsche and many diehard fans believe Porsche knows all there is to know about the automobile, but in the real world, many of their designs and recommendations simply do not work. I pay no attention to what Porsche recommends or does not recommends as far as the proper maintenance of their cars. If I did, I probably would be burning oil and leaking oil out of a few seals as well as replacing parts unecessarily when there is an unrelated problem. (MAF comes to mind). Common sense and common knowlege about cars and the internal combustion engine is what to follow to properly maintain any car. If you can propely maintain a 55 Chevy, you can properly maintain any Porsche. Fact is, the hotter your oil is, the more protection you need. a 40W oil will not provide you the same level of protection as will a 50W. The 0W40 is not much better than WD40 in the engine when the oil temperature is 230 -240F which is where the 3.4 engine oil is during normal city driving in hot whether. WD40 will allow your engine to rev faster and give you better performance and economy for a short while, but will prematurely distroy your bearings and other componants. It canl also finds it's way between the seals and the housing. Once ANY oil is there, it is just a matter of time before the seal begins to leak.

Here is a chart of the grade of oil that Porsche recommended for the 99 996. Was it a mistype or maybe a change in the laws of physics and chemistry that caused them to change their minds? LOL.

Good explanation 1999. Thanks for the thorough write-up. Now that makes sense. I change my oil just about 2x a year anyway so I see no prob with 15W50 in the Summer change and 0W40 in the winter change.

Easy there, my post was meant as sarcasm, as the smiley alluded to. I'm sure the car means a lot to you, which proves my point. Sometimes a low mile car has value regardless of whether or not it is driven everyday. My sincere condolences over you dad's passing.

No biggie. I can get a bit emotionally charged when it comes to that car. Sux losing a father Appreciate your statement about my father

What is the source of that chart, TSB or owner's manual? The TSBs I have that include that chart use it to show the temperature range at which oils of different viscosity classes will operate at. In the TSB it has nothing to do with approved and/or recommended oils, it is only meant as an explanation. If the chart is also used in the owners manual could you post the surrounding text? Here is the rest of the text used in the TSBs; ----------------------------- Oil Quality and Non-Conventional Basic Oils: The basic oil and the additives added to it essentially determine the properties of engine oil. Non-conventional basic oils (synthetic or hydrocrack) have more favorable properties as compared to conventional oils (mineral oil). Non-conventional oils are relatively similar with respect to performance, regardless of whether they were produced using the synthetic or hydrocrack process. In our approved oil list (Type column), the engine oils are identified as follows: ncp = basic oil not produced conventionally - "non-conventional processing" (synthetic or hydrocrack). pnp = basic oil with "partially non-conventional processing" (synthetic blend). cp = basic oil produced conventionally - "conventional processing" (mineral oil). (Engine oil of this quality is no longer approved for Porsche vehicles) Non-Seasonal "GL" Light Running Oils: CL oils have good light running properties because of their light low-temperature viscosity as well as a high level of temperature stability. They have a particularly low tendency to evaporate at high temperatures due to their composition. The oils, that meet such high performance requirements, essentially synthetic or hydrocrack oils, can be used without restriction as non-seasonal oils (see approval list, "Type" column). Non-Seasonal "G" Oils: "G" oils can be used as non-seasonal oil, but do not have the same light running properties as "GL" oils Viscosity and Temperature Ranges: The viscosity of oil depends on the viscosity setting of the oil, identified through the SAE classes and the respective temperature. Engine oils in SAE category 5W-40 or 5W-50 can be used at temperatures down to -25�C (-13�F). Oils of viscosity class 0W-40 can be used at lower temperatures as well. ----------------------------- just a thought... Porsche has been using 0-40 since January 24, 2001 which is close to 2 years after the first 996? I believe with the two previous models 964 and 993 they also changed oil specifications after a similar length of time had passed. Is it possible that Porsche is making changes based on what they are seeing with the engines they get back from customers and from long term testing?

Gee, does anyone remember what the original post to this thread was??? BSC...My 2002 C2 with 28,900 miles on it, one week left of warranty, is now at a Porsche Dealership having its second RMS. First one was done at 9,400 miles. The seal was weeping so slightly, that I was about to not even bother, but since it is still under warranty for another week....oh well, might as well go with the latest and greatest that Porsche has to offer. When this seal gives up, which I am sure it will, I will have them do it again with the latest offering and go for the two years under warranty. If I am lucky, I will get them to do it under goodwill. If Porshe does not want to do it under goodwill, then I will fork out the $800-1000 to fix it, since I knew when I bought the car that this was a design flaw. My thought on the matter is, the warranty is 48 months or 50k miles, what happens after that is the owners responsibility. However, when the warranty expires, and you know that this is a well known problem, then you might as well go to the factory rep and try the goodwill routine. When I worked for Honda, any known reoccuring problem that was not a recall, which showed up in a car after the 36/36 warranty expired, Honda took care of. To bad Porsche doesn't do the same. I own several vehicles, some of which get driven less then 300 miles a year. All this talk about how much you drive, how hard you drive, and what type of oil you use is a bunch of crap. As long as you keep oil in an engine, and drive it on a regular basis, you really have nothing to worry about. Get the damn thing fixed, goodwill or not, and enjoy it! Tom L 2002 C2 RMS PIG

My thought on the matter is, the warranty is 48 months or 50k miles, what happens after that is the owners responsibility. However, when the warranty expires, and you know that this is a well known problem, then you might as well go to the factory rep and try the goodwill routine. When I worked for Honda, any known reoccuring problem that was not a recall, which showed up in a car after the 36/36 warranty expired, Honda took care of. To bad Porsche doesn't do the same. Based on the posts that I've read, it seems like it's hit or miss with Porsche repairing RMS for cars out of warranty. I'm beginning to wonder if the Dealer has a large part to play in the success rate of goodwill coverage. For example I know of two cases where Porsche did RMS repairs on cars that were well beyond the warranty expiration. In both cases the owners bought their cars from the Dealer and had 100% of their maintenance work performed by the Dealer.

1k repairs are nothing on a porsche, my freakin tires cost more than that. If that price point seriously sets you back, maybe a porsche is not the best choice for a DD, given the high cost of routine maintenance on these cars. jmo.

I used to work on heavy commercial jets and they all seemed to leak just sitting there, but take them out for a spin and they seem to just seal up... maybe some similarities here on the usage of the car and RMS, As far as oil I live in Phoenix and in the summer it can get over 120 degrees F + and have used nothing but castrol 15-50W all year around in my BMW.

SR-71 Blackbird would leak fuel onto the tarmac but not at altitude. Metals expand when subjected to heat. Due to the extreme temperatures generated by the high speeds/altitude of the Blackbird, the design had to allow for the expansion of metals (even titanium) during operation. As a result, the tanks when cool, would leak.

My RMS started leaking as soon as I brought it home. I bought the car used. It had sat for a good three months. Drove the **** out of it for a couple of weeks, and never saw a drop of oil on the ground again. Since it is going out of warranty next week, I took it to the dealer who is going to do another RMS since I am showing a very slight weep from that area. I believe that not driving any vehicle on a consistant basis, has alot to do with how much oil or fluid leaks it may acquire over time. Tom L 2002 C2 RMS PIG

slightly off-topic BUT, more oil related discussions from today.

Now I remember why I always wore a cap when I was under the BlackBird.

I drive my 997s every day and I had the RMS problem early on (under 5,000 miles), but I haven't had any issues whatsoever since. I now have nearly 23,000 miles on my car and counting.