Need C4S Pricing Advice

Looking to buy my first 911 this winter. Hopefully, to take advantage of softer prices. I'm liking the 2002 C4S. Minimum options are 6 speed, xenon lights, 18" wider tires (is that standard on C4S?). Asking prices seem to run the gamut from mid $50K to $70K. Researched dealer prices (w/o CPO) are around: $59K (NADA); $56K (Edmunds); $59K (KBB) and about $4K less for private seller. I figure CPO will tack on another $2-3K. How accurately do these reflect FMV? So what is a realistic final purchase price this winter (I'm in NJ)? Is it reasonable to expect to be able to purchase a C4S in good condition for high $40K or low $50K? If anybody has recently purchased/sold a C4S and wouldn't mind sharing the final price, it would be appreciated. TIA.

As an owner of an 02 C4S I'd be curious what you end up paying, but I would be surprised if you found one for 40/50K.

Recently bought 2002 C4S with 30,000 miles and with the options you mentioned. Lapis blue/metropol blue in excellent condition with CPO for $65,000. Realistically could have been a few thousand less if haggling over my trade-in was not an issue. C4Ss are relatively rare and highly sought after. Unfortunately, sellers increasingly recognize this . John P.S. 18" wider tires are standard

I would agree with the above posts. 40's would be very difficult, and 50's would be a steal.

No, I don't think high 40s is realistic. If you find something in high 50s, you'd probably be getting a good deal. 996 C4S is a good choice, though.

Check out this link to search for used Porsches. I ran the search for 2002 & 2003 C4S and the least expensive was $56K but after that it very quickly gets into the mid-sixties. http://www.porsche.com/usa/pre-owned-vehicles/search/

I picked up my '02 C4S in the summer for $65K. It was a CPO. The bonus was the mileage: 1980 miles! 5600 miles on it now w/o an issue! Love it! Get one, you'll love it too!

Bought a 2002 Artic Silver C4S coupe 6-spd w/24,000 miles this July. It was a CPO with: Advanced Technic Package (Bose, Bi-xenon, 6 pack CD changer, Headlight washers), PCM Information/Navigation, Soft-look leather, Wheel caps w/painted Crest Cost was $63,500

Thanks to everybody for the advice. I ran the same search with the same results, I was hoping that the dealers were being overly optimistic. My budget is capped at $60K so there is some hope. Although now I'm wondering if a C4S listed for mid $50K has problems. Hmmm, Plan B could be a 2001 C4. Would low to mid $40K be realistic for Plan B?

Yes, you should be able to get a 2001 C4 (my old car) for 40's. However, I would try to get at least a 2002+ as I think the extra power, headlight design and interior changes make a big difference. You should be able to get a 2002+ C4 for under 60k. Good luck and keep us posted on your search. Rob

Mid 60's seem to be the price for CPO low miles C4S's, ones well under 60K I would wonder about. Always check KBB, and if someone is selling a pcar for well under its value you have to wonder. KBB listed my C4S used as 65K private party, 71K retail, I paid $68K which I think was okay considering the ultra-low miles and 3 years warranty (1 year factory + 2 year CPO).

You could probably pick up this '03 TT in low 40's !

Sweet! A little touch up paint and it'll be good as new.

Oh Tim, that was a good one!

That car needs a road flare and a friend that can keep a secret.

Basically I follow the prices because I have one and daydream about trading etc. Lowest I have seen for this year is 60K. At lower price points, people don't seem to sell. Budget aside, these cars are so worth it even at 60-65K for the 2002. I would recommend acquiring one. The CPO premium is very much worth it in light of the RMS issue. If you find a private seller, I would ask the dealer where you service it to "broker the sale" for the CPO. In addition, in the words of my father ( a car guy for life) when you buy a car for 40K ( 67% fair market value) you get a 67% car. There are reason these cars are discounted. If the reason is unimportant to you ( good service but high miles, needs little else) then it is a value to you. More than likely if your budget is tight at 50-55K, skip it becaue when you 45K c4S needs 3k in service, what to do then? I just sent my PRISTINE on warranty 02 C4S in for routine service and took a $1200 hit- tires, inspection, schedule service, etc..... And thats for nothing really. BTW when talking with dealer about trading on a GT3, he mentioned about 52K on trade in to me. SO that is the low watermark to aim for. Figure 52 plus tax savings without CPO is 54K low price, private seller and 55K dealer minimum price target.

check this out: 03 C4S BIN $50750 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/03-2D...QQcmdZViewItem

Yeah I saw that. Two issues 44K miles ( like mentioned in my post high miles) and less desirable- transmission. Plus as it is said- Buy in the fall, sell in the spring. BUY IT NOW....

I'm not sure buying a C4S in the fall is an advantage. This would certainly be true for cabriolets.

I think the adage buy in the fall , sell in the spring is true for all sports cars (and even all cars)- dealers afraid of the long winter, snow on the lot and inventory costs of the floorplan are inclined to deal on all on the lot inventory. Private sellers, faced with a winter of either payments or upkeep/maintenance on a cr that usually cannot be used much are all pyschologically willing to make concessions. Buyers in the spring awash in the need to drive a car they have already bought in their minds will be more likely to concede in price and gain early use of the vehicle as opposed to keep looking. Ask any dealer about it. BTW Summer sales for Fall winter delivery ( orders not in inventory) may more likely to be offered discounts due to anticipated winter inventory and floorplan costs. Of course that is subject to regional variations in weather but the national trend likely has influence over it all

I'm also into shopping and in NJ as well. Saw one listing recently Silver 02yr 37k miles with $57 but when I stop by to check it out it's already gone. I think below $55k is really tough unless with high mileage. by the way that one from ebay for $50k and 03..sounds very cheap. Is it because of Tip and Mileage drive that much lower than the market price?

http://autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ca...n&cardist=1708 here is one at $60,900 and I'm sure you can negotiate a little bit. I think an 02 with around 30-35k miles could be had for around $55k.

Mark my words ,the 996 C4S will be a very sought after porsche in years to come, probably more so than any other 996 including the TT.

I bought my '03 C4S one week before Xmas last year-the dealer's sales mgr and the salesman were real eager to deal because cold weather and snow are not happy times for moving metal, particularly P metal. This is definitely the time to move, especially if you want a cab-be a contrarian and delay the gratification for a few months in return for a better price. BTW, I did not buy the cpo because I got the name of the original owner and talked to him about the car (he owned the '03 one year and traded it for a TT!). Plus, I have bought a few used P cars and just have not had issues-extended warranties are a questionable expenditure in my mind. Oh, and don't let RMS discourage you-I think you can get a sense by reading this BB that it is an "end of the world" problem when it is not. Finally, once I drove a 4S, I could not go back to a C2. Good luck.

an 02 C4S with 29000 miles on it just went for 61K on Ebay. Of all the prices I've seen online, the 50K is the lowest so far. I'm looking at buying early next year (hoping a few owners will upgrade to the 997C4S so more become available) and am budgeting between 57 and 61K. Also, there will be more used 997's on the market which will be selling for low 60's. While I can see the 996 C4S retaining its value, I think prices will drop slightly more before stabilizing. In my opinion, 2 years from now they will still be more expensive then a used 997. Good luck with your search and if you can please keep posting prices on this thread. Cheers

Another doc I know has a '03 AS/Blk with 9k miles, garage queen, carbon/aluminum everything, 91k sticker. He wants to sell it(wife), he's asking 68k I think, pm me if interrested and I'll pass it along.

Yeah, I don't want to start a debate, I'm not sure if I'm one of them, but I have read on this forum and in other places that many people think that the 996 C4S is the best looking 911 ever. (Some people seem to like the wide turbo body but prefer the smooth look of the C4S over the other wide body 996s (Turbo & GT2) which have the air holes for the intercooler on their sides and of course wings on their backs.) Although the 997 C4S is probably a little nicer looking.

Whoa.......sure can't agree with that one C4S is much lower on the performance scale, has few HP increase mods available, and is WAY more common than the TT. I like the looks of the C4S compared to the C2, but the TT is the schiznit

Actually, I see way more TT's than C4Ss'. Not talking about mods/performance C4S vs TT, rather customer appeal and sales. The C4S is currently the most sought after 996 in Porsche dealer/pre-owned inventories, just check with your local dealer.

Anyplace to get production/import numbers (mainly usa) on 996's? Im curious how many C4S were shipped here vs. TTs

If you do a quick search you will find what you are looking for. There have been plenty of posts regarding production nummbers.

That's what i like to hear! After all, how can you deny the wide clean rear on the C4S? I keep asking myself why Porsche did away with the reflector strip on the 997 C4S...

OK, called my guy at Momentum Porsche about this. He chuckled and said he wished he could find enough TTs for the demand and C4Ss are plentiful. In the 3.5 months I've owned my TT, I haven't seen a SINGLE one on the road (Houston), have seen 10-12 C4S. A couple of times, I've seen a wide body up ahead and took a huge hit on the boost bong only to find out it was a C4S when I got close. Great car.....TT it is not, which is OK since these things have torque that keeps my Chiropractor smiling

I cannot agree with you more.....C4S will never be a TT, period. I am one of the ones who likes the look of the C4S more than the TT, and even for me that's the only thing that's better in the C4S, in every other category they are not even in the same league. I still see a lot more TT's than C4S but that will never mean that the C4S will be more expensive than the TT,...NEVER. BUT, the TT will depreciate % wise more than the C4S, which I think It already has. I think that's what Chris means,...and not the actual price ?

Yes Jeeva, I'm not saying a C4S will be worth more than a TT, just will take less of a dep hit, and it's in higher demand than a TT, probably bc it can be had for a lot less. Dealer inventories are the complete opposite up here, tons of TTs', few C4Ss'.

I'm not here to cast stones at great cars, thats what we have 993 owners for , but I think the statement was silly considering the performance and rarity of other 996 cars (TT, TT with X-50, TT cab, GT3, & GT2). Lets face it, 315 hp on a 3400 lb car isn't cutting edge in 2005...thats why my dream of buying a Ferrari F348 (300 hp) is dying on the vine The higher hp cars will be the ones in demand in the future, just like it is now with the cars from the 60s (FI and big block Corvettes, Shelby GT-500, , Boss 429, Hemi cars, etc.). OK, time to hit the boost bong again

If that's what you looking for in a sports car,...you'll enjoy that boost till you are humbled by the C6ZO6. Till then happy driving.

Hey, Chris I saw your thread on you cancelling your 997. I feel the same way,...I always thought I'll switch my C4S, and that's why I leased it...not any more...love it too much. C4S was at least 30k less than the TT when I leased it new, and I knew it'll be only like 10-15k more in 3 yrs. and I thought I'll switch it then, but I don't want the TT any more even though I can have one for 10-15k more. I am embarassed with my 320hp at the track,...it's too much.

Dude, you are too much....keep drinking the koolaid And you WOULDN'T get smoked by a Z06 If keeping up with a Z06 was a priority, all I'd have to do is shell out $5k for hybrid turbos and ECU programming...you couldn't do it for any amount of $$ short of a new TURBO engine. I'm going to bow out of this before spoiling some wet dreams with doses of reality. I'm glad you like your cars, I can understand.....since it is taken from the TURBO design to begin with. But saying it will be more sought after than a GT2 is just rediculous....I might as well tell the CGT guys how they bought a pile of crap compared to the TT....same thing

Of course my car would be smoked too ?????but, unlike you that's not the only thing I look for in a sports car. It does'nt bother me. I don't think hp. is everything, unlike you I don't think 320hp in 2005 is any slouch. Why is a car any less just because there are other higher hp. cars out there. Anyone who thinks that will surely be dissapointed when the ZO6 smokes them. That's the whole point of my response, I think 320hp is too much,...so a zo6 whooping my rear on a drag strip will never bother me, but your post implied that you pass on cars you love because somebody else may have a higher hp. car. It is sad to hear your love for the F348 is dulled by other cars with more hp. What does that has to do with what YOU like. Trust me, which car will hold its value is almost irrelevent to the hp. (nice examples of high hp. cars that has held their value, I hope you know it proves nothing). Take your car to a PCA DE event, you'll quickly realize why I think 320 is plenty enough. FWIW, the car I am dreaming to park next to my C4S has a whopping 110 hp., but I'd still love it the same. P.S: Actually, having re-read your post I don't think you read mine at all. LOL. Because I clearly said your TT is better than my C4S, which obviously it is, almost like cgt being better than your TT like you say (may be not quite the same, but I get your point). Read your post and mine again,...it may help. I even said your TT is so much better than the C4S that they are not even in the same league,...irrelevent to what ever is out there, it'll remain so...so, don't let the hp. greed ruin it for you. There is always a bigger fish out there. Smack, my apologies for ruining your thread...so, what is a fair price for the C4S.

Here in Vegas there are almost always a handful of pre-owned 996TTs available, and I've found dealers willing to deal. A C4S pops up once every several months, and when they do, they're sold pretty quickly. Even my Mercedes dealer (bought CLS500 for wife) asked me if I'd be interested in selling my C4S. He stated that he had clients who have asked him to call them if he came across a C4S (he actually used the term "C4S"). Here in Vegas, at least, pre-owned C4Ss are much rarer that 996TTs.

Have to agree with johnlee on that one. I rarely see the C4S around town but I do see a slight number more of the TT's. Both still rare in this town from what I have seen. Now, the C2's? See them everywhere! 99-06's.

I standby my prediction, just wait 5 yrs, you won't see C4S for sale for very long. Not saying it's better than a TT, just more desireable, face it. I think you should venture out to the track sometime, I'll show you what 320hp can do with a good driver, suspension in the black run group. Be sure to bring extra underwear. Just bustin' your chops, have fun out there guys!

Shark, my comments regarding the predicted market value of the C4S has nothing to do with its performance. All the 911 variants are fabulous driver's cars, and certainly some perform at a higher level than others. My conclusions are based on my observations of supply and demand here in Vegas (and Los Angeles) over the past 2 years. Numerous publications have opined that the C4S is the best all-around 996. I believe this reputation along with its relative rarity will make it a slow depreciator. As such, I do think this discussion is relevant to the original thread as it does shed light on the current and predicted value of the C4S .

Obviously they are different cars subject to slightly different market forces. I like my C4S and thought about "upgrading" to TT near the end of the run. In reality, if I wanted to "upgrade" for the same price differential ,new or preowned, they are many options. IF I look for a TT in the 75-90 range, I come across GT3's, 997S, Ferrari 355 etc. I am not saying that those are comprable but it gets one thinking. What are the current prices for preowned C4s and TT I think about 67% of Purchase price or so. Is the turbo more depreciated as a % than C4s? My brother who is in real estate sales always says a man looking for a 42R suit is not looking in the 46R rack. In other words, price point can dictate market as well. If I was looking at a 996 for 45-55 and I saw a 996C4S for 62.5 I would be close. I would not likely look at the 75 K 996TT ( much older, service costs etc). But that's just me. Same deal with the F car. Yeah I can BUY one. BUt the first 3K service ( minor) I would wince. What about the 993 Turbo? Head and shoulders costlier presently than the 993C4S but here in PA, not as desirable. Just market observations of cars that sat on dealers for a while. 993 C4S- gone and bargains at that. If I went for the 993, it would be c4s. Lastly for those who do not track their cars, the c4S is as much car for the money as necessary.