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YOUR RESEARCHFVD performance Camshaftsfor 996 3.4
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Adjust these cams...) and here are the specs
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I'm contemplating installing camshafts offered by FVD (along with their ECU adjusted for these cams...) and here are the specs....
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Suggestion · Original poster
would like to find somebody who has done it and running with it for a while to confirm though....
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Suggestion
You will probably find the cams are a little bit lumpy and may need to raise the idle slightly, you will also need to set the valve clearances etc, so may as well do a valve job and stem seals while there, which means you might as well do the seats and porting...
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Suggestion · Original poster
and doesn't do that well in the corners with all that weight and the use of all consumables as a result...
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Suggestion
You will probably find the cams are a little bit lumpy and may need to raise the idle slightly, you will also need to set the valve clearances etc, so may as well do a valve job and stem seals while there, which means you might as well do the seats and porting...
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Suggestion
My experience from putting cams into a Audi 1.8t engine using a variocam design lost power due to the different cam timing values the cams are creating.
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Short story, at first it didn't work when it came out of the porsche shop, he took it to another porsche shop, and they found the timing to be off...
I'm contemplating installing camshafts offered by FVD (along with their ECU adjusted for these cams...) and here are the specs....
Inlet Cams:
Cam lift (Valve Lift) I/E (mm) = 10.7 mm
Duration�/Peak Timing = 280�/127-102�
Valve Timing �CRA (IO-IC-EO-EC) = 13-87 38-62
Valve Lift at TDC I/E (mm) = 0.4-3.2mm
Outlet Cams:
Cam lift (Valve Lift) I/E (mm) = 10.7 mm
Duration�/Peak Timing = 272�/113�
Valve Timing �CRA (IO-IC-EO-EC) = 69-23
Valve Lift at TDC I/E (mm) = 1.5mm
Does anybody know what this set of cams will do to the power curve? I don't know what the values mean and if they take away much low end torque for higher rpm gain I don't want them...
ideally you just want to raise the torque curve on all the current rpm points... maybe shift it a little to the right (say 500 rpm max.. but that's it) to retain the stock character and driveability with more oomph...
has anybody installed these or have any thoughts on this setup?
who is going to do the build?.... I would also look into the x51 setup for the 3.4 just for informational purpose. It a $17K option with an increase of 25hp.
not interested in spending $17K for x51 .... just want to do camshafts + ECU... MUCH cheaper ~ around $3,600 for cams and FVD ECU (roughly.... not including labor) no way I'm spending $17K... heck for that amount of money I could take it to Jake Raby and build a super motor over what I have right now.... ! cost is a constraint here...
Im not saying that you should spend $17K... what Im saying is, the x51 kit (from memory) had cams, plenoms, heads.... etc.... a lot more than just cams, and gained only 25hp for all that work. I guess what Im saying is you won't really notice to much power improvement for all the work with the FVD setup.
that's a fair bit of work as well and then there is tuning... how do you tune for a stock advance cam setup... just want to see if anybody has done these cams their feedback... I know you'll get more power just trying to figure out what you'll lose ... totally unfamiliar with cam setups... just looking for something that's proven that works well... I don't want to rely on a shop around here to tune things and see what happens... I guess I'm looking for a good total solution...
I read somewhere someone tried to install them and it was a nightmare IIRC (learning as they go).
I think unless the shop has experience doing this before or other mods compliment it, I would save the money and spend (or save) it otherwise.
As a general comment, the cam specs seem reasonably tame. I dont have experience with cams in Porsche motors but do in others. So keep that in mind. I think the duration is basically on a light race / sports side, and the lift similar. I have 288 intake and exhaust cams in my race car, but others do go over 300 degrees to put that into perspective. I have 10mm lift on both as well.
You will probably find the cams are a little bit lumpy and may need to raise the idle slightly, you will also need to set the valve clearances etc, so may as well do a valve job and stem seals while there, which means you might as well do the seats and porting... then you really need the intake and exhaust length and design changes to be tuning to the resonance change and rpm that peak power will be made at. So cams really become a bit of a nightmare in terms of other stuff that makes sense to do, you dont just bolt them in, throw in a tune and away you go.
If I ever do any mod to mine, which I really dont see the point in the bang for buck isnt there, I would just turbo it, pretty cheap bank for buck (if you dont get conned by a tuning shop off the shelf "kit").
Could be something like a bike I bought stock from the factory with a 1000cc engine putting out 170hp. I wish the 911 was just 150hp per 1000cc. You can think putting a cam in is going to improve things but the engine might need bigger valves or more space for the cam lift so that you don't self destruct the valves into the pistons.
I hope there is somebody thats raced different cams and has had some experience with the cam you are lookng at. You could just be losing low end by increasing the duration and having the power mostly available around top end. Engine is pretty nice the way it is already.
FVD says the sams will swap in and as a precaution I would also install titanium valve springs.... they told me *not* to port and polish as there is a need for turbulent air to mix things up... they said porting and polishing may result in loss of horsepower using this specific engine and installing these cams only. As for getting conned this is why I'm doing the research here.. trying to find somebody who has done it and undestand what kind of powercurve it yields...
You will really need to know what you have first. If the cams do not violate smog laws then they( FVD) have
more than likely increased the duration 5 to 10 degrees and made the lift curves match, it is a hydraulic cam so the ramps aren't being brought into play. I do find it interesting that the exhaust has "Valve Lift at TDC I/E (mm) = 1.5mm" while the inlet at TDC is" Valve Lift at TDC I/E (mm) = 0.4-3.2mm" but I see now
that I posted it you probably transposed the 3.2 / .04 that being said it probably makes sense. If the cams are Schrick and they probably are they are well made and engineered. But still you would need to know the stock numbers and compare them, so do that first.
regards
My experience from putting cams into a Audi 1.8t engine using a variocam design lost power due to the different cam timing values the cams are creating. It will cause the ecm to pull timing. Therefore a tune is a must.
Flat6 has sport cams for much cheaper btw.
I would be interested in the thread link where the engine developed a hesitation an high speed or high rpm
and finding out what fixed his problem. I would not think FVD or any other sales organization would venture into a radical camshaft profile the would cause that behavior and or that it would need to be remapped.
Remapping only if the RPM threshold is increased beyond what limits the OEM program sees fit, and it would be highly advisable with the 996 platform that one would not do such a risky thing.
One really needs to know what he has timing and duration wise and what he will be buying. it looks in the FVD specs posted that the intake lift at TDC numbers are transposed one to another.
regards
I have an email out to Porsche regarding the stock 3.4 camshaft values... once I get them I will post.
With respect to porting the head that is what FVD told me... I'm sure there is an explanation for it and don't doubt that porting works but in this case they advised against it!
thx for everybody's help here... I'll re-post what I find.
thx logray for that! certainly answers my questions about the power curve... wow their package looks to be quite the upgrade.... (!!)
torque everywhere and loads of it above 4000 rpm...
Flat 6 can make an engine with enough torque to make your eyeballs suck into the back of your head.
As for the cam profiles, they are in various docs, 1. workshop manual (google) 2. Porsche technical training manuals (available at renntech.org for contributing members).
Also the profiles have been posted here in the past.
I would be very surprised if Porsche releases this info to an end user.
I don't doubt what Flat6 can do.... I'm looking for an upgrade at a fraction of the cost or an engine rebuild... cost is a constraint here... and from the graph the FVD solution looks good... would like to find somebody who has done it and running with it for a while to confirm though....
A friend of mine did the complete fvd upgrade last autumn, cams, headers, mufflers, air filter kit, and ecu upgrade.
Short story, at first it didn't work when it came out of the porsche shop, he took it to another porsche shop, and they found the timing to be off...
So now it works perfectly, and you can definetly feel the difference.
We will probarbly try to compare with a stock 996 3.4 soon to see how much the difference is when driving/accelerating
None of these mods by themselves are going to add massive horsepower.
Only when you put them all together.
If you are looking for massive horsepower or torque you need to look at forced induction, or better yet, sell the NA and buy a Turbo.
Pretty hard to look at that in isolation, just about a system of changes. If you take the perspective the engine is an air pump, the CFM through that pump is critical. It also depends if the comp is raised in the headwork, and how many cc are taken out etc. Either way, your penny.
Both FVD and another shop have stated headwork ain't worth it. There is still much cfm in overall system to gain even without headwork! Look at the fvd torque graph. Looks good to me. And that is without headwork.
Well if its a matter of being worth it or not, cams arent worth it either... for the USD6.5k they ask for their setup, I could turbo my stock motor and make 50WHP more all day.
http://www.fvd.de/us/en/Porsche-0/-/...LBF-FT%29.html
what something is worth is different to different people.... if you strapped on a turbo the car ain't built for it and you couldn't track it reliably... this is why we stay normally aspirated... as far as a gain goes it's quite a nice gain when you look at the graph... all over the curve... not peaky.... this makes 288 ft/lb of torque... very close to what a 996 GT3 puts out... maybe a little narrower powerband but that's a lot of torque for a 3.4
You can easily track it reliably with a turbo on an N/A motor, its all in the tune. I have turbo charged an N/A 10.5:1 Toyota 1UZFE to 500WHP and its lasted years on the track and drag strip. I didnt realise you wanted it for track purposes, I guess it depends on your class of racing. The current class I race in is based on up to 1600cc motors, I have a fully worked 4AGE making 175WHP for that, horses for courses!
I don't want to go the turbo route.... too many issues and problems and the turbo will heat up the engine like crazy.... no way... not on a 996... your gonna have to try real hard to convince me of that.
on different motors... sure.. it could work....
Well, oil cooler, intercoolers, 3rd radiators etc all exist for a reason
Lots of people have put turbo's on the N/A 996, its really all about fuel and tuning for safety.
Really depends how much you can do yourself and who you know...
If you were to but a kit and have it fitted, yup stupid Idea.
If you can get some turbo's off a GTiR or SR20DET or even a couple of KKK K26/6 off a 944 if you wanted to stay KKK (I wouldnt) for a few hundred bucks, buy some turbo headers, buy some T304 bends, bust out the tig, grab a PWR water to air cooler, get BOV and WG, get flatmate to reflash the ECU on his dyno and you are away.
agreed... absolutely key... I'm not savvy in the engine bay and defer to the pros here...
the turbo has tremendous power... I've sat in a few around the track... the downside is it's heavy!!! and doesn't do that well in the corners with all that weight and the use of all consumables as a result...
I prefer the responsiveness of a N/A engine vs turbo... down the road my next car will be a GT3 variant.
Nope, I use my 996 as a daily driver / cruiser. I wont be doing any mods on it like that! I heavily modified my old 944 Turbo to 400HP, and that was a waste of energy in the end, so focus that energy on my track car
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