New Guy thinking of 996

Hi my name is Mark and I live on Long Island. I am looking for some help and advise from you guys. I am currently in the market for a low mileage 996 preferably 02-04 and I believe there is good value right now in these 996's. However, the IMS bearing scares the hell out of me. So I was figuring on finding the right one and immediately bringing it in to have the LN Engineering retro fit bearing installed. Should this give me enough piece of mind that I can enjoy the car without worrying about the IMS bearing? Worth mentioning I would much rather a 2005 997 but from my understanding that bearing is buried and requires a full rebuild to replace and that is way to costly. Any advice for a muscle car guy trying to get into a Porsche would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Mark, You will find that the IMSB issue is a real "hot-button" item here. It has been hashed over 1,000 times at least. If you do some searches, you will find many threads on it. When I bought my 996, I put in a new IMSB and a bunch of other routine preventative maint. items right away. That being said, you will find many, many different opinions on this site regarding the IMSB issue. You are correct... 996 is one of the best values to be had, for a phenomenal car. 997 value is very good too.

Thanks for the reply. I have read so many posts about this IMS bearing my head wants to explode. I guess a better question is if I find the right 996 and install the LN bearing right away, can I be worry free? do the retro fit LN bearings ever fail before their recommended 50k replacement interval?

Mark good luck in your search. Anybody want some corn? : corn: : corn: : corn:

just get one that the PO has spent a ton of money on. searches on here will let you know what needs to be done. or get a 99, they came from the factory already sorted. oh ya fastest color is arctic silver

Dont worry Mark. If you buy a 996, your head wont explode but the engine might. (kidding, GLWS) Not sure its a muscle car. Maybe more like a "skinny hard-gainer that needs juice"?

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Get an intensive PPI, swap the bearing as soon as you purchase the car, and prepare to have a whole lot of fun. Particularly if the old bearing was in solid shape, no reason to believe that the LN unit will not last a good long time.

Just buy a clean, documented 996 or 997, do a ppi including inspecting the oil pan and filter for metal particles, do 5K oil changes again looking for metal in the filter, and don't sweat replacing the IMS until you need a clutch or see metal. The IMSB is way, way, way overhyped of an issue. Personally I think it's crazy to just 'automatically' replace the IMSB on a car that doesn't otherwise need the tranny dropped.

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See?? Told ya you'd get a variety of opinions, and you haven't even scratched the surface here! Yes, it can be mind-boggling to read all that IMS stuff. Hard to separate fact from fiction. Quick cheat sheet: 1. As far as I can tell, it has affected maybe 5% of 996's. But, it seems that Porsche has kept the actual data fairly secretive. The 5% number is what I've seen cited the most, in various places. 2. No one knows if it is how you drive the car that causes it to fail. 3. There were two type of bearings: single row and double row. Despite what you will read, no way to know for sure which one you have. 4. Stats are poor whether or not it makes a difference if you have 1 or 2 row bearings. 5. LN bearing isn't the only "upgrade" option. But it's the one that made the most sense to me. 6. I have never seen a documented case of a LN bearing fail. I've heard rumors of it, but vague undocumented rumors are useless to me. 7. For me, it was a "peace of mind" thing to change out the bearing. That doesn't mean that everyone else needs to do it. Many sleep just fine with the original bearing. 8. 996 is a great car. Ignore most of what you read on the internet, and just enjoy the car. 9: Everything you need to know about owning a 996 can be found in this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...6-forum-6.html

I bought an 03 C2 tip a year ago with the same concerns. It has 64K miles and not a drop of fluid has come out of it. As has been documented, the later 996s with tip and higher miles are of the least risk if it hasn't failed already. I don't have access to the history of my car. I have come around to thinking that until there is a problem, I'm not going to invest heavily in a precautionary measure. Yes, opinions are all over the place but the 5 percent failure rate does not seem to be heavily challenged. That being the case, I feel pretty good about driving it. I will look at the filter every 3K miles, they are cheap.

If the IMSB issue scares the hell out of you, the conventional wisdom says you should actually avoid the low mileage cars. The IMSB retrofit only got common in the last 3 or 4 years, but it isn't that hard to find a car that has already had the bearing replaced. If you are interested in a car that is advertised as having the bearing replaced, insist on a receipt proving it or assume it actually wasn't changed. I looked at one like that, and it turns out that it was only the RMS that was changed.

some observations I've made over the years: #1: many join a forum because they need help with an issue/problem (or have READ about it, see #3 below) #2: because of #1, most forums have an inordinate number of threads/posts about problems #3: future buyers get scared because of all the horror stories from the 5% (and join a forum and repeat #1 above). P.S. If the OTHER 95% of owners without problems join car forums, then 996 land will be a happy place

Since you've done some homework about the car's shortcomings, you have probably also deduced that the 996 is an amazing car for the money. If you find a clean specimen for a great price, and you address any issues you find worrisome, you're unlikely to be disappointed.

Lets put it this way Mark in relation to a bad IMS. Here is the chance that you will get a bad 996. Stand 20 next to each other. One of them is a bad one and 19 are all good. I would take you on for a $1000 that you can't pick the bad one. That's the chance you take in buying a 996. Great odds in my book. Don't sweat the small stuff and go for it.

Hey Mark. I purchased my first one earlier this year after looking for almost two years. I had the same concerns as you prior to jumping in and I passed on what were probably good cars from those concerns. When I found my car I had a PPI and that made the decision for me; the inspection was good with the exception of a little residue at the RMS. I had already prepared to do a RMS and IMSB immediately after purchase so the RMS report was not an issue. Me being me, after I purchased the car I took it to the <gasp> Porsche retailer to have an annual service and a PPI; this time it was a POST Purchase Inspection. I asked them to look at the RMS in the process and asked about the dreaded IMSB......now keep in mind this is a franchised retailer....their response was yes, the RMS is sweating a little but they suggest keeping an eye on it (they also said they would be happy to take the work and and money but seriously didn't think it needed to be addressed). Their response to the IMSB was there is not a factory approved fix for this problem and despite having issues it is a very small percentage of cars (oh boy, I can hear the hate mail and rants starting already.....!) Their suggestion? Drive the car...Drive it and enjoy it.....Put miles on it and drive it all the time. And I have tried to follow this advice for the past 9 months and have put a trouble-free 6,000 miles since purchasing. I am picking it up from the dealer tomorrow after leaving it for an oil change, brake flush and coolant flush and can't wait to have it back. Go buy one and love it!

selling mine Saturday to a dealer. I am on Long Island and I have an 02 with the RMS and IMS done. car has 69000 miles on it. Sliver 6 speed.

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Thanks but I prefer an 04 and looking for lower mileage.

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I'm one of those...well I do have a problem with the fuel gauge, I can't get it to stay at the 4/4 mark! It seems directly related to tachometer.... Oh yea, one time there was snow on my car and it didn't melt!! how cool is that. I followed the three step program, very simple; step 1 - Buy the car step 2 - Drive the car step 3 - Enjoy the car

The blown motor is part of the initiation into this club. Also if you've never been in prison before, buy extra lube as you'll get bent over a lot.

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Well now that is reassuring. Why are these motors so damn expensive? I am sure I am going to hear crap for this statement but I can build a ridiculous high HP Chevy big block for half the price. Does anyone have any good resources other than Craigslist, PCA and here for finding a nice 996. Dealers don't keep them I guess because of there age. And I will not buy one from a used car lot. I would like service records and such.

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One here. Try the buy/sell section on the various Porsche forums, also check the sites of sponsors and independent mechanics, as they sometime list for clients.

Here or eBay from a private individual with high feedback rating. Not everyone is gonna be on these forums. Autotrader also can be a decent source and where I bought mine through.

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Because people will look at you and see "another garage monkey with a souped up Chevy". I drive into my kid's private school (plenty of "big iron" rolling through there) and the kids stop and stare. It's a 911. Nothing else out there with the panache for near the price of a 996. TC P.S.--on topic: I, too, was scared to death of the bearing/seal issue. I got an '04 with 63k mi. and have decided to put off the bearing until the clutch gets done. I got an aftermarket warranty for two years/20k mi. so I sleep ok. I'm driving the **** out of it and LOVE it. I wanted one since age 10 or so. So, I'm a 911 or nothing guy when it comes to performance cars.

For all the talk and opinions about replacing it or not, as well as the estimated 5% failure rate, how many people on this forum have actually experienced the actual failure of the bearing and destruction of their engine?

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Not advocating for anyone's particular car, and I hope you find the 2004 you seek, but one with a decent number of miles (as opposed to very low miles) a clean, intensive PPI, and an installed LN IMS bearing would suggest a couple of things to me: (1) the car runs well and just simply works (not overly garaged, not an ignored lemon, and likely clear of the "if a problem were to develop it may not have manifested itself yet," phase), and (2) it has been well maintained (even if you think the IMS replacement is overkill, the fact that the current or recent owner thought enough about it to take the step suggests that he cares about the car and has kept himself well informed on, presumably, just about everything). For one who loves to drive, these cars are both addictive and therapeutic. In less than two months, I have logged about 5,500 smile-filled miles. Perhaps consider a drop-top for Long Island? In the nice weather that will (sort of) double the fun.

To the original poster - my advice: DON'T JOIN FORUMS...In case you have any doubts read this: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...es-on-odo.html

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That was my initial opinion as well, but that rules out too many nice cars - plus the price point is higher. I only wanted a low mile 04 but saw the light and ended up with a 2002 C4S with 79K miles and couldn't be happier. Personally I would take a good look at this 2002 car that's for sale local to you.

Thank you everyone for the posts. I am starting to feel much better. I am curious and nobody had answered the question yet. Are the LN bearings kits durable to the extent that there should be no worries until there recommended replacement at 50k?

See Item #6 in Post #9. I seriously doubt you will find anything more specific than that. The link in Roadsessions's post above (#26) is a great one too. Whatever you do, do NOT buy one with orange side markers. It's abundantly obvious that anyone with such a monstrosity on the road is so clueless that they probably never changed the oil, drove at the wrong RPMs, and generally abused the car. That's the best tip you can get about buying a 996. Orange side markers = automatic pass on that car.

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Some how missed this, great! Thank you.

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No one really knows......most folks that have got this have not put close to those miles on yet.

There is no difference between 02 and 04s except an 02 will be cheaper to upgrade to a decent stereo. 02s are better in my book if both are the same condition. Buy condition of the car and not MY. Difference between a 9 and 7 year old car is in maintenance records and owner upkeep.

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So why is it cheaper to upgrade the stereo in an 02?

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You won't have to deal with the more complex Bose MOST fiber optic system which is more difficult to do a straight forward upgrade found in the newer models.

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Mine still has the pumpkins and that's the way it will stay. Plus I defy all comers that my 911 car is probably the best maintained 911 car on the planet. BTW it is certainly not for sale. Not now, not never, no way. The orange side markers is my way of personalizing my car. Plus the lettering on the engine lid. You will all know it's hurdi's if you see it on the road. Sorry, I should have said, if you see it whip past you and leaves you in a cloud of dust, on the road haha. The only thing I will not address until I find anything untoward in the filter, is the dreaded bearing etc.. I have the double race bearing and will keep it that way. Don't think I haven't checked it for leakage. I have. Mark buy a 1999 or 2000 with the double race bearing and about 50000 to 75000 miles on the clock if you get chance and sleep well my friend. I still have 6 months left on an extended warranty on mine and the car just will NOT break down. WHY.. because I maintain it myself. It will eventually but I have saved a lot of money in advance by doing my own maintenance. There will come a day when a job will be too complicated for me to do and that's when it goes in for repair. It's in much better shape now than ever it was when I first got the car. BTW I have the guys on this forum and 6speed on line forums and youtube to thanks for most if not all of my DIY maintenance.

Hey Mark- I'm new to the forum and also in the market for a new toy. Can't decide between a 996 or 997. Also considering a 993 but they seem to be red hot in terms of price these days. Been reading about the IMS issues and agree with lots of comments about the issue being made to sound way worse and way more common than it actually is. Can't really help you with the decision as I'm working out the same decision in my mind but would like to hear from others on there thoughts about the 996 vs. 997 as I see you were also considering a 997.

It's not like 993's are problem free... Replacing valve guides every 50-70K miles is a heck of a lot more expensive than changing the IMSB every time you do the clutch. It's pretty absurd how much negative attention the IMSB gets. Every generation of 911 so far has has the potential for costly engine issues, the M96 is IMHO much less expensive of an engine to own/maintain than any previous 911.

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996.2 and 997.1 are the identical platforms except for a few changes to front headlights and interior So go with the one that fits your budget and taste

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Spot on with your assessment!

Thanks again guys. Another question geared toward the 4s. Is there much more maintenance surrounding a 4s vs. the Carrera. I plan on doing as much as I can myself as far as regular maintenance but I am sure there are some proprietary tools required for some items.

Haha. Tell Porsche that. Even they admit its a huge issue. Its now considered a PM item and better be replaced 30K to 50K.

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I agree. There wouldn't be a legal settlement if it weren't an issue. That said, what's so hard about changing the clutch, IMS, RMS and water pump after buying the car? Just add $3-4k cost to the car in your mind, and then have peace of mind. If you can't afford $3-4k in costs, you shouldn't buy a Porsche to begin with.

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That was my original thought. Buy the one I want then just do the work for piece of mind and knowing what I have.

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OP, you can subscribe to the 5-10% non risk taking crowd, the living room trophy conversion crowd, or the drive it and enjoy it crowd. If you go on any car forum, there will always be one or two of those issues that will never die. In this case it's magnified due to the costs involved. For me personally every time the IMS comes up, I'm reminded of this scene for some reason... Dumb and Dumber 'There's a Chance' - YouTube

Perfect! Color me Cat III. I don't suggest ignoring the issue, just monitoring the situation and not overreacting to it.

...even if you buy into the KK'esqe gloom and doom, paying to drop a tranny and replace the IMSB as a fear response just doesn't make sound financial sense. Let's say you buy 100 996's, all with original IMS bearings and no signs of bearing problems (oil pan/filter inspection). [Adjust my numbers as you like, the results will be similar...] Avg. Value, as purchased: $22K. Value for rolling chassis if catastrophic IMSB failure: $6,000. ($16,000 loss) Avg. cost of IMSB purely as preventative measure, no need for other work: $2,500. Option 1: Ignorance is bliss... 8% fail, "Cost" of dealing with IMSB in 100 Porsches is 8*(22,000-6,000)= $128,000 . (avg $1,280 per car) Option 2: Chicken Little IMSB replacement... 100 cars @ $2,500 each, total cost of dealing with IMSB is 100*$2,500= $250,000. (avg $2,500 per car) Option 3: PFBZ method, aka install Guardian/monitor/replace only when warning or tranny down... 100 cars, avg. $400 each for the guardian: 100*400=$40,000 3 cars have the IMS guardian go off, and you install the bearing in those cars: 3*$2,500=$7,500 4 cars have the tranny down for a clutch or other reasons, and you install a new IMSB as an incremental cost 4*$700=$2,800 1 engine still fails, because even with thorough monitoring maybe one slips through? 1*(22,000-6,000)=$16,000 $40,000+$7,500+$2,800+$16,000= $66,300 (avg $663 per car) So does it make sense for every new owner to just blindly put in a new IMSB? Not unless your the shop installing them.... Or you can do it yourself at parts cost only... Or if you have the tranny down for any other reason! Factor in that the failure rate is probably * lower * than 8%, that the failure rate is over the life of the engine, that even the preventative IMSB needs to be done * again * in 30-50K miles, and that if you wait to install the IMSB until you have the tranny down for other reasons, the incremental cost of replacing the IMSB is vastly lower, and the equation moves even farther towards 'sensible replacement' rather than 'panic/fear replacement'.

Hmmmm... Good calculations, but the logic is a bit flawed IMHO. Your calculations are for a population, whereas in reality, the risk factor calculations should apply to the individual. So (assuming the 8% failure figure)... for a specific individual, we would want to make the following risk assessment calculations (using your numbers): 1. Buy a 996 for 22K (rather a low figure, I would say), then choose: 2. Choose Option A or B: Option A) Spend an additional $2500 for IMSB "upgrade" (a bit high, I would say), and assume that the car will then not fail due to IMSB-related damage. Total cost: $24500. Option B) Take a 92% odds risk of no IMSB failure, thereby saving $2500. Total cost: $22,000. But have an 8% risk of catastrophic IMSB failure, leaving you with a $6K roller (a figure I think is rather high), therefore with a net loss of $16K. For any individual (not any population), this is the way it must be considered with respect to risk tolerance. Feel free to tweak the actual numbers (cost of car, cost of IMSB replacement, value of roller), but the concept remains the same. I'm not saying that any of the options are right or wrong, just that the risk tolerance of each individual must be considered, not the risk tolerance of a group. Now, if that individual is buying himself 100 996's, then clearly your numbers would apply, and that person should not replace an IMSB if not otherwise indicated. At the end of the day, he will still have 92 of them in his garage, and 8 more to use as yard art.

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Absolutely. Multiplying by 100 just makes the figures pop and gives clarity to the ROI. The odds remain exactly the same. As 100 individuals instead of a group, you have lots of smaller winners and a very few bigger losers. But its very similar to buying blackjack "insurance" when the dealer turns an Ace. Over the long run, the cost of insurance is more than the loss, and the house wins. If the amount of financial loss would be extremely painful or catastrophic (you simply can't afford to play a $16,000 hand of blackjack, even if the odds are well in your favor), you suck it up and pay the overpriced premium for insurance. Otherwise, mitigate risk in more cost effective ways (frequent oil changes, inspection, guardian), replace IMSB whenever the tranny is down anyway, and otherwise let it ride... Like ice cream flavors and 996 color choices, everyone gets to pick their own and as long as they are happy, it's all good.

just discussing this perpetuates the ims/rms issue even greater,will it ever end ? however i agree that performing this repair when theres nothing wrong,is imo ridiculous.

Clearly different ways of looking at things and I have to go with what make me feel comfortable. I will say one thing, $22k is a ridiculous number for an 02-04. The clean unabused ones are more like low 30's. Also worth mentioning is that I have decided I want a C4S so that will be a little more money.

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I went looking at craigslist in your local area to check on 996 prices, found this which I'm betting is your car. Nice Camaro! Yes, $22K is low for a clean, lower mileage MKII 996 (2002-2004), but low $30's is TOP of market, especially if you are buying one that you feel needs an immediate $2,000-$4,000 worth of clutch/IMS/RMS work. It better be perfect, in an awesome color, maybe with some unusual or desirable options like X51 and a car you absolutely love for that kind of money. And to spend $35K+ on a 996 C4S that you again think needs an immediate IMS puts is oh-so-close to what a decent 996 Turbo would cost you. Turbo = no IMSB as well as enough power to satisfy a guy coming off a built Chevy 350. For me, the real sweet spot on 996's are clean, documented, mid mileage (50-70K) MKII C2's which should be fairly easy to find for $25K-$28K.

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Yup, that is mine. It sold today so by mid week I will have the funds ready for my next purchase. I am set on the 02-04 C4S because I want the wide body. Every Turbo out there I have seen is out of my range, if I could find a nice Turbo I would prefer it but not sure if it is a reality.

You can find a good turbo in low to mid $40s. Be patient and we are going into the slow season. Hang out on 6speed 996 turbo section for cars. Absolutely doable.

The C4S is a great car and like the TT in many ways. The bad news is that the engine is still a POS. Be prepared to spend many $$$$ for engine repairs on a 10+ year old 996. Your much better off with a TT. Listen to those of us who regret buying the NA 996 instead of a TT 996. Dont believe it? Just ask some members what they have spent on the engine. The irony is my brother dogs me non-stop about buying the 996 instead of exactly what you just sold (the Camaro).

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You are killing me. I don't think I will regret the sale, it was time to move on and I have had "Hot Rods", time to try something different. The big difference between the Porsche and what I sold is I can hop in the Porsche with the wife and go on a nice 3 hour drive. The Camaro was very good at 1/4 mile runs and short trips and car shows, but long drives not so much. Lots of different opinions on the 996 engine. Like anything there is good and bad. I have read a lot of postivie things about the 996 engine. The IMS is the black mark which is why I would do the bearing right away.

OMG. Please everyone STOP THIS FVKING hysteria already and STOP confusing new / potential owners already. To the original poster (Mark) - Go find the 996 you like. FORGET about the comments here from people that say you overpaid or underpaid. Car prices vary greatly based upon condition, options, and GEOGRAPHY, supply/demand etc. and finally EMOTION. If you love the car you see, FVCK saving a few pennies here and there - JUST BUY THE DAMN THING and ENJOY YOUR LIFE. Ignore KrazyK - he really is Krazy. He is that fringe guy and you don't want to get sucked into his world of hysteria and paranoia. (although I totally respect his DIY stuff - but am totally confused by his rationale) DO THE IMS bearing change over if it gives you peace of mind, and just make sure you have some good service records to ensure that a 10+ yr old car has had things like the AOS and waterpump replaced. You will absolutely LOVE THE 996. I assure you - it was the BEST SELLING 911 EVER when it was in production - for a reason - IT is pure joy to drive and easy to own - MOST of us here including me use it as a daily driver and track it occasionally - it's just amazing. Post pictures when you get it.

We need to start discussing the RMS issue now.

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OP, not sure what you're range is but as I've followed all 996 sales over the past couple years, I know for sure you can get higher mileage turbo models for the mid 30's in very good to great condition. I've seen them before and it's just a matter of waiting for the right one to pop up. Question is would you rather have a low(lower) mileage C4S and still have to worry about the IMS or get a higher mileage turbo and maybe worry about replacing turbos later on? Just another alternative opinion...

Please do not base your opinions of the M96 on the opinions of the resident alarmists. True, there are people who have had to replace them. Also true is that some people flog the M96-powered cars with great results on the track. Search for the 996 high-mileage thread. I believe Macster has a stunning amount of miles on his M96-powered Boxster. Lots of cars have at least one major flaw/worry point. When I drove my '88 Fiero, it was with the knowledge that the engines had a tendency to catch fire and burn through the firewall. My Corvette ('96) has a similar tendency toward self-immolation, but I don't plan to sell it and replace it with a Volvo any time soon. Find a good specimen, get a pre-purchase inspection, retrofit any parts YOU think should be addressed based on what you learn and the opinions you get, and enjoy the hell out of the car. The 911 is a "dream car" for a lot of people, and the 996 is a stunningly affordable 911. The alarmists will tell you that there's no such thing as an "affordable" Porsche. This is just ridiculous. Sure, these cars are more expensive than a Ford Fiesta to fix, but they are not ticking time bombs. My 996 is my second M96-powered car - I've been daily-driving an M96-powered Porsche since September of 2008 when I bought my 986 Boxster. If you get the car and LOVE it, take steps to ensure its longevity. If you don't love it, find one you like better. What you shouldn't do is buy a car that you're afraid to drive... Is there a chance I might have to source a rebuilt engine someday? Sure. Will it have been worth it? Yes.

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Didn't you have your engine replaced under warranty?

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I agree with this and ultimately get the car YOU want. I was trying to actually listen and get a sense of what was important to OP which is widebody as OP indicated. He also had some worries about the IMS and as much as we try to diffuse the overblown alarm, some people just can't get past it. And coming from a muscle car, I would definitely recommend at least test driving the C2, C4S, and Turbo and see if you can live with the more modest power of the non-turbo cars or if a turbo is something you definitely want and would fulfill the void in having sold that muscle car. If you're ok with the non-turbo power delivery, do not let anyone scare you about the IMS. Some of these people are the same ones that use umbrellas in the sun to prevent the minute chance that they'll get skin cancer too.

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Yes. And I would not have needed to if I had done the LN bearing upgrade. That still doesn't change anything about my statement.

Mark I feel your pain. These forums are best kept away from. I bought a 2002 with 62k on it in April. Currently it has 68k and I had planned on doing the clutch, IMS and RMS over the summer but my daily driver (BMW 330i Sport) had a couple of unexpected and expensive issues so the Porsche upgrades went on the back burner. I'll likely do the service this spring then hopefully drive my 911 8-10k a year with at least a bit of confidence that the motor won't detonate.

That would be a bit redundent at this time. Hey Alpy, if it makes you feel better, I do agree that all the PM I do would not make sense if I had to actually pay someone to do it. At least my engine is nice and clean now.

Hey Mark: Coincidentally enough, I recently sold my Camaro ( a 1970 actually. Really nice original shape, red on black...) for what sounds like the same reason. Main difference is, I'm into a Porsche already. 2001 C4 Convertible. Was aware of the IMS issue, but not to the extent I am now. Guess I put the cart before the horse, but like some have said, saw the car, loved it, bought it. I've decided I'll consider my IMS options in the spring, although as of right now, I'm not feeling like I want to spend a few grand on a preventative fix.

I just bought a '01 C2 from a dealer. I tend to do research to learn a little before I jump into a car or brand. (my first Porsche) After reading the RMS/IMS issue, I opted for the 3 year all-inclusive drivetrain extended warranty ($5,000 add-on) Now, I struggle with doing pre-emptive fixes BEFORE something happens...or just rolling with the warranty. It is not my nature to wait for a heavy shoe to drop, so this is hard for me. I'm dying to have the clutch go out (covered) so that when they split it open, I can hand them some LN bits for the reassembly. Driving me crazy, and I've only had the car 2 weeks. oye

I hear you TS... although, I suffered the same paranoia when I had my 2001 SAAB 9-5. The forums were full of stories of potential pooched engines due to sludge issues. When I decided to sell the car, my uncle stepped up and bought it, even after I detailed for him the potential shortcomings of the car (based on my forum experiences). Two+ years later and the car still runs like a charm - for a guy who does not believe in spending money on car maintenance and literally asked me "what's a turbo?". So, how much of the IMS issue is forum hysteria - who knows? One things for sure, Porsche's response to it seems to be disgusting.

I'm surprised you got coverage for the clutch - nice warranty. Typically that's a wear item, even for a new-car bumper-to-bumper warranty...

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Problem with some of those warranties is that you have to abide by their terms, meaning their preapproved facilities and parts. I'm a stickler for diy or finding a particular indy and using only OEM parts. Last thing I need or want are Autozone parts in my Porsche. Just sayin...

Agreed I'm looking for an Indy in Phoenix if anybody knows one.

According to JR most if not all of these warranties balk at CEF replacement.

You know, there's only one person on RL who uses the phrase "CEF" so often that he's now using an acronym for it...

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As the owner of a 964 and 996. Much lower cost to maintain the 996. 964 has valve adjustments and lots of oil lines, etc. that seem to leak and need replacement. 996 seems easier to work on as well. I did buy a 996 with a fresh engine (previous owner one of unlucky 8%) and LN bearing installed. I plan to replace it with each clutch replacement and I change the oil every 5,000 miles.

Quotes source post: 10949965

Ha! I spent about 3 minutes thinking to myself " CEF... what does that stand for?? " before then scrolling down further to see your comment.

Strugglin to find what I am looking for, anyone with a good lead on a 02-04 C4S? If so PM PLEASE.

Keep thinking.

Quotes source post: 10952391

I know it's not a c4s but I think this is one of the cleanest 996 you will find anywhere https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-on-black.html

I have to agree that is tastefully done, Two problems-Not the wide body I am looking for and it is in Cali.

Been a while since I've visited the forum. I logged on today because I was thinking about selling my 996 to upgrade to another boat. It's a 2000 Cab with 35K on it. You said you're looking for a 02-04 C4S but since I'm local to you I thought I'd mention it. I bought it in March. I did the LNE upgrade/RMS (Rudtners Racing in Freeport did it right after the PPI -I was paranoid like most 996 buyers that read these forums), the car is extremely clean and has been great to me. Any interest or questions let me know.

Quotes source post: 10952628

Thanks but I am looking for a 2002-2004 coupe. BTW-Rudtner's is a great shop I hear.

Mark, I'm in the same boat as you looking for a c4s or turbo for the right price. I'm in south jersey so we are probably looking at same cars with that said check out polarporsche.com he has what you are looking for. I should have bought a couple of his cars I waited too long. He has a 02 c4s that I was gonna buy it's really nice. New clutch, imsb, rms, and all service done. His name is yurii very fair guy when I'm ready I'm buying from him. He also has a turbo which is perfect just alittle out of my range. Good luck. Tony

Quotes source post: 10952940

I was looking at that one I just can't get past that light grey interior.

December in New York isn't exactly peak season for Porsche's, most private sellers who aren't desperate would probably just wait till spring. Give yourself at least a few months to find the right car, especially in middle of winter.

Quotes source post: 10953067

That's why I passed...there is an 11k mile one at pepe Porsche it's been there a while it has blue interior it also has sport seats which I hear blue sport seats are super rare

Seriously if you are looking at either a C4S and Turbo I would only get the turbo. The 996 is a wonderful car but be prepared to be one of the few (?) with potential issues. I was not and wish I had sprung the extra for the turbo.

Yeah, I want a turbo now too. Love my N/A, but would love a turbo more. Definitely worth looking into for any buyer. Hey, for turbo owners, any idea how much more you get reamed by the insurance company (what's the approximate difference in premiums, all other factors being the same?).

wow. all you guys wishing you bought the turbo - please - hang out in the 996 turbo forum for a couple weeks to see all the issues they're having too. You guys make it sound like they're toyota corolla level of maintenance/reliability.

Quotes source post: 10956127

It's hindsight 20/20 speak. 996 NAs have mostly been depreciated while 996TT are still approaching that level. Price points on 996 C4S vs 996TT are such that TTs have become the value play today. It was not the case a few years back.

People bitch about the 996 (non turbo) depreciation, but it's actually pretty much in-line percentage-wise and much better dollar-wise than a similar Turbo... My estimates for a couple of cars, I'm sure others will dispute the numbers.: A 2004 C2 coupe, few options, clean, mid miles. New ~$78,000, now about $26,000. $52,000 in depreciation, ~33% residual value. A 2004 TT, same condition & miles. New about $130,000, now about $43,000. About the same 33% residual value, but a whopping $87,000 in actual depreciation And compared to say a ten year old $85,000-$100,000 original price Mercedes, *much* less depreciation.

For me, the desire for a turbo is simply the desire for more of a kick in the pants when I hit the gas.

Quotes source post: 10956625

I'm keeping my eyes open for a 996 Turbo as well, and do love the acceleration, but I've also driven a 996 Turbo and C2 back-to-back on the track. The C2 is definitely more satisfying to drive when you get a corner or lap just right. The Turbo covers your sins better with the AWD if you overcook a corner and the power to make up for poor corner exit speed.