Looking for real world advice on 996 operating costs...

Greetings, folks. I am a huge Porsche enthusiast and am getting close to a place in life where I could arguably afford a decent used 911. I am currently driving a first-generation Miata and I also have a Honda Fit. I take public transportation to work, so the 911 would be for weekend fun and road trips. I would only plan to put on 5k miles per year. I don't have a garage, so the car would have to be parked on the street (although I might invest in a car cover). I don't have the time or talent to work on cars, so please assume that I would get all repairs and maintenance done at an independent shop (there are a few in Oakland and Berkeley that specialize in German cars or Porsches). I love the styling of the air-cooled 1980s 911 models, but they would probably be too expensive and time consuming to keep running (remember that I don't do any work myself). I am also a huge fan of the 993 series, but they are still a little too expensive. I like the looks and performance of the 996 series and am impressed that they are such a bargain. I am seeing 1999 911 Carreras (coupe model) with 50-60k miles that appear to be in very good shape for around $26k. That seems like an enormous amount of depreciation when you consider that these cars were around $65-80k, depending on the options. Assuming I get a decent car (say a typical 1999 996 for around $25-26k) and have a PPI done, is there a big risk of an expensive repair (say, more than $2000) in the first 100k miles (assuming I get a car with around 50 or 60k miles)? Is there a FAQ or informational page about the key areas of concern? What are the odds of catching these with a PPI? I hear lots of anecdotal stories about engine and transmission failures, but I wonder how prevalent these actually are, and I wonder whether these are items that can be identified in advance by a mechanic. In addition, what are the typical annual repair and maintenance costs for a car that is driven around 5-8k miles per year. Is that just one service per year at around $1000? Are there any bigger services to watch out for? Can someone give me ballpark figures for the cost of having the following done at a good shop and how often they need to be done: Tire replacement (all four) Brake replacement Clutch replacement Timing belt and/or water pump Any other big services? I should also mention that I am probably not interested in the AWD model or the Cabriolet and would only consider a manual transmission. Sorry for the long first post and please feel free to refer me to a general FAQ or other page that may include some or all of this information (I did search a bit in the archives, but I didn't see much on point). Thanks in advance and please let me know if you have any other tips or advice about the 996!

By the way, I did see this thread and it's very helpful: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/414586-the-ultimate-preowned-996-buying-guide.html I also saw the poll about engine replacement and it's pretty terrifying: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-forum/460748-have-you-had-to-replace-your-996-engine.html More than 25% of the 996 owners on here have had to replace the engines on their cars? And the typical engine replacement is $18-20k? Very scary stuff- is there some way to anticipate or prevent this or should I budget an extra 20k for a new engine?!?!

PPI is a definite thing you need to do, even if you buy from a dealer. I bought a CPO'd car in March and still had a PPI done. Engine replacement - you have to remember what you're looking at and where you're getting your information from. Granted there have been some issues, but like everything else - bad news travels fast and people with problems are going to complain (rightly so). But I'm sure that there a ton of 911 owners out that who don't get on-line and therefore don't tell you what a magnificent experience they've had with their cars. I can't comment much yet on the yearly maintenance since I've only had it for (wow - it seems like I just got it) 8 months. Good luck.

I went from a '95 Miata (still have it) to a '99 C4 that I put about 5k miles per year on. I found a car with the engine replaced so that I didn't have to worry about it--I paid $1-2k extra for this "feature". Maintenance has been a joke--the car has cost me very little to run. One oil change per year...I think I did a brake flush last year...trunk latch broke and cost me about $200 to get fixed. That's it. Issues on these cars seem to be very minor or very major. Good luck!

The 1999 or 2000 996 is absolutely the very best sports car you can buy for the money. You can get the car you're seeking for 24-26K no problem. WAIT for the one you want, don't compromise too much. There are so many for sale it's crazy. When things go wrong it can be expensive. There can be a fairly large range in the cost of the repair depending on the quality of the replacement parts and hourly labor charge. Four tires installed: 600 - 1750, Clutch 1100 - 2100 (add 1000 if you need a flywheel), Oil change 100 - 250, Brake pads all four 200 - 500 (add another 90 - 150 for each rotor), spark plugs 200 - 350. Get a PPI !! If the engine has been replaced, good for you. If not, and the car has 55 - 65 K miles, the chance that the engine will fail due to a manufacturing defect is extremely low and could happen on any car. If you decide to take the plunge you should have a minimum of 4K laying around that you are very happy to invest in the car if necessary. So you'll have a sweet Porsche for around 28-29K (including the rainy day fund). The difference between driving a Porsche compared to a Miata or Honda fit (fine cars no doubt) is like the difference between attending the Superbowl and playing in the Superbowl.

1. There is no such thing as a cheap Porsche. 2. Budget about $2000 every year. $1000 on maintenance, $1000 on repairs. If you don't use the $1000 in repairs, roll them over to the next year 3. A MkI 911 is now as cheap as a Toyota Camry, so you are getting a bargain. Tire replacement (all four) --> $800 - $1000 typically needed every 15,000 miles Brake replacement --> $1200 for all four pads + rotors. Needed every 25,000 miles. Clutch replacement --> $1400, every 40,000-50,000 miles Timing belt and/or water pump --> No idea. Any other big services? --> e.g. 60k miles service runs about $600 at any indy. There are lots of good shops in the Bay Area to service your 911. See: http://www.pca-ggr.org/files/doc/LOCAL-MECH.doc

great question! i have basically in the same situation, except i have a garage and can fix pretty much anything, but will leave well enough alone to the professionals. I am deciding between the 996 and an nsx. The 911 puts that devilish grin on my face and the nsx is nice. But i guess i need to drive both, or even find an nsx to test drive. I am hoping to jump on something that someone desperately needs to get rid of at a cheap price in the next couple of years. i have already checked on the insurance. a 2003 would run me around 600 per year, where a turbo would run 800. not too bad

I have spent very little on my 996, a water pump, one idler pulley, ignition switch. Maintenance as far as oil changes, brakes, are easy to do and will save you a lot of money. If you can put a bicycle together for your kids you can change oil and put on new brakes. Seriously, it's not rocket science. I couldn't have done the water pump. The choices in the factory manual were two, engine in or engine out. Thats when I took it to my indie. The ignition switch wasn't hard, if you can stand on your head under the dash. I couldn't diagnose the pulley, so find a good independent mechanic you trust, get a PPI, and enjoy. These are great cars. Just as info, the Boxster is also a great car, and tons of fun for even less money. You can get an 00 to 03 Boxster S for less or same $ than an early 996. The 996 is a much much better car, but if your budget is tight, it's a good alternative.

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Well put!

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+1

I have to disagree on the 996 Cost of Operation estimates that are posted here. I find it significantly cheaper to operate a 996, and right in line with a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic for most, but not all items. I have a 2002 996 with 65K miles on it and here are the actuals for this car. The car has No track use, urban and rural mountain driving only. For Example: Tires are $600 for the rear, and $300 for the fronts. I've gotten as little as 17K miles and as much as 24K miles. Fronts can last 40K miles if the car is not tracked. Brakes: Can easily last 60K miles. My neighbor and I are getting ready to give his '99 996 (with 99K miles on it) its 2nd brake job. My 02 996 is still on its original pads at 65K. New pads, rotors, bits & pieces will cost $850 for all 4 wheels. This is in line with Toyota and Honda or Audi. Clutch: A service life of 100K miles plus is not uncommon. Then again there are plenty of 10-15K clutch jobs to report as well. R&R a clutch assembly is a 4 hour job if that, but many shops will try to spread it out into 1 or 2 days worth of labor. Expect to pay as little as $800 and as much as $2500 for the maintenance. Low-mile Clutch jobs usually cost premium. Oil/Filters/plugs/belts: Oil change 15K, Filter change 30K, Plugs depending on model year and the plug used are either 30 or 60K miles Accessory Serpentine belt 60K. If you can change the Oil in your Honda, then you can do it with the Porsche. There is nothing, repeat nothing on a 996 that is difficult to perform routine maintenance on. If I can do it (I'm in Marketing), anyone can do it! I essentially do one oil change a year, filters and tires every other year. I spend about $60 on the oil change, $60 on the (air & pollen) filters, and $350 on the tires. If you do not want to do your own maintenance, then add $100 for the oil, $300 for the filters, and $100 for the tires. The only item that I have had to replace out of warranty was the battery at 60K. Other than a few wear and tear bits that I have replaced, the car is just as solid as when it was new. These cars tend to shake themselves out during their warranty period, and if the first owner gets stuff replaced when it fails, then the next owner(s) will have a pretty smooth sail. There are plenty of one owner 996s out there with cars for sale. That is where you should be looking, not on a used car lot.

great info, i am a little less scared after hearing some of this

Oh dear gawd, is this going to cost me MORE!! - Hey - for the record I have had mine about 7 months and spent $1200 on an inspection, oil change, new tie rod ends, alignment. Another $200 on misc missing parts in the front when I fixed a leaking A/C O'ring, $40 on bulbs to look cool and another $40 for side lights...dont forget about $400 worth of detail and cleaning products...e-gads! Things I didnt need but could not resist are FabSpeed By-pass pipes (sold for what I paid...almost) K&N cold air intake (never installed - sold for what I paid..almost lol) 4 wheels and w new tires (second hand - great deal!! $350 for all 4) a Gall Darn wing I cant use (for sale - hoping to get what I paid, almost!) and new headlights ( sold old ones and came out even).......... I have driven about 6k miles and aside form the tiny voice that says.... did you hear that.... everytime there is some little "unusual" noise, I have loved every second of it things I need, suspension $1500-$2500, SSK - $200, Summer tires $1500 and more things I dont know what to do with $$$$$$$ OH, and gas and track money..... Lets go drive and quit thinking so darn much... its taking the FUN factor down a notch for me

I think operating costs are cheap. However, if you have to ask, you probably can't afford a mishap and should stick with less expensive brands for servicing.

If you are going to rely on others to maintain your Porsche, you always have to prepared for a big bill. It does not take much to rack up a $1500 repair bill. And the total failure of a major component like the engine or the transmission is always there, just as it is on any other car. The difference is that a new transmission for a regular car is $2000-$3000 while on a Porshce it goes up to three times that. I put over 50,000 miles on my last car in about 3 years. My total out of pocket costs were probably right around the $2000 per year mark. I always used dealers to service and there was a set of tires in there. Although that does not sound too bad, iIf I had had to pay out the warranty work the total for the three years would have been an additional $12,000 or average of $6,000 a year. And I think I had a really good car without any major problems. But the repairs were real and I would not have been happy paying for them. I love Porsches but after owning 7 of them, I would not own one outside of warranty nor recommend a friend to own one out of warranty unless they have the funds available to cover major repairs. Only driving 5,000 miles a year, you could easily get by without ever seeing a major bill, but the odds are stacked against you.

I've had my '99 C4 for almost a year and a half now. In that time I've put on about 11k miles and taken it to the track 2 times. I've done: -oil change (about $60 DIY) -replaced brake cooling ducts on control arms ($40-ish) -purchased car cleaning and detailing products ($300) -purchased Durametrics scan tool ($300) Other things to expect: -new rear tires every 6k miles (about every year, if you drive year-round) -new front tires every 12k miles (these wear half as fast as rears)

This is very helpful information. Thanks for the replies and hope to see a few more!

Rear tires!... every 1.5 years.

If you are thinking about stretching your disposable income to buy a 10 yr old car; you are taking a big chance. It may work out for you or be your albatross.

Its cheaper than a boat!!! Does that help? Dont let people tell you if you have to ask, then you cant afford it.

I had a 17' whaler montauk center console. I water skied off that boat and the whaler was cheaper to maintain.

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An alternate experience. Ive been driving Porsches for more than 30 years and I've never had anykind of warranty. I took one car to a dealer once. The buyer of my 97 Boxster was out of state and had me take the car to the dealer for a PPI. He paid them 300 bucks for the look see, and they still charged me 50 bucks to turn off the air bag light. Just find a good independent mechanic. There are a lot of them out there.

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If you consider BMW M a less expensive brand, then there's some things to ponder about the 2001-2005 M3 (and may also apply to other 2000+ M cars): - oil change in my old 2002 M3 requires 6 liters of Castrol TWS 10W-60 that costs $12-15/Liter (depending on which dealer or online source you get it from); oil change is peformed every 666 gallons of gas (but most enthusiasts do 7500 mile oil changes) - inspection II service every 50k which includes a valve adjustment of all things, where dealer charges from $1500-2400 - an S54 reman engine costs $15k + core charge; granted, the S54 seems very reliable (after the 2 service actions) compared to the M96, it's a scary expense especially when 01/02 cars can be had in the low-20's - a VANOS unit costs around $2500 if it frags for no apparent reason (sound familiar?) and you better hope it doesn't take the engine w/ it; there have been very few cases of these failing online - if you have SMG-II, then if the SMG-II pump fails, you're SOL on the side of the road; the pump costs $2500. A couple of friends had theirs fail on them and, fortunately, replaced under warranty Having said all of that, BMW as a company seems more eager to help the customer, than leaving the customer high and dry. ///Michael

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I am kind of getting used to this high and dry thing.....

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Don't get me wrong, I have 0 regrets on buying mine. During the week, I can't wait until the weekend comes so I can drive it. Then I'm back to sad on Sunday evening when I plug the battery maintainer in. ///Michael

I have a 2000 C2 bought with 27,000 miles. 2 years since about 10,000 miles 30k service - $900 1 - window regulator Oil changes - DIY $60 each Flushed brake fluid - DIY $50 (includes buying pump) No clutch, brake, engine, oil leaks, etc....knock on wood. My biggest expense is all the add ons.